Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:43 AM - Autopilot /Trio Avionics - Dynon (Raimo Toivio)
2. 01:19 AM - Re: Autopilot /Trio Avionics - Dynon (Frans Veldman)
3. 01:53 AM - Re: Jos Okhuisen (Frans Veldman)
4. 02:00 AM - Re: Autopilot /Trio Avionics - Dynon (Paul Mitchell)
5. 04:29 AM - Re: Autopilot /Trio Avionics - Dynon (peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk)
6. 04:29 AM - Re: Rough River Camping area? (sldpileit@aol.com)
7. 04:41 AM - Off topic- The Tale of The Arab Flight Crew (craig bastin)
8. 05:39 AM - Re: Jos Okhuisen (josok)
9. 06:01 AM - Re: Jos Okhuisen (William Daniell)
10. 07:43 AM - Re: Jos Okhuisen (josok)
11. 08:46 AM - Re: Off topic- The Tale of The Arab Flight Crew (Rob Housman)
12. 08:46 AM - Re: Jos Okhuisen (Frans Veldman)
13. 08:46 AM - Re: Jos Okhuisen (Frans Veldman)
14. 09:28 AM - Rough River / Jeff Burns (JEFF ROBERTS)
15. 11:28 AM - Re: Jos Okhuisen (Robert C Harrison)
16. 11:59 AM - Re: Rough River Camping area? (Paul McAllister)
17. 12:36 PM - Re: Autopilot /Trio Avionics - Dynon (Karel Vranken)
18. 12:42 PM - fuel filters (Raimo Toivio)
19. 02:02 PM - Manifold Pressure Gauge (Carl Pattinson)
20. 02:16 PM - wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
21. 03:06 PM - Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge (Robert C Harrison)
22. 03:06 PM - Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge (Frans Veldman)
23. 03:07 PM - Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge (Terry Seaver (terrys))
24. 03:09 PM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Robert C Harrison)
25. 03:38 PM - Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge (David Buckley)
26. 03:42 PM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (David Buckley)
27. 04:04 PM - Re: Jos Okhuisen (Graham Singleton)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Autopilot /Trio Avionics - Dynon |
All
I have decided to install autopilot, probably one axis only.
Trio Avionics Ez Pilot looks neat.
Also their customer support seems to be fast and pro, so far.
On the other hand, I have in my panel Dynon D10A.
I know there is a possibility to update it for Dynons autopilot.
That would be much cheaper way but somehow I do not like that idea.
What about users experiences?
Somebody there - do you have any important info?
Thanks, Raimo
OH-XRT
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Autopilot /Trio Avionics - Dynon |
Hi Raimo,
> Trio Avionics Ez Pilot looks neat.
> Also their customer support seems to be fast and pro, so far.
>
> What about users experiences?
> Somebody there - do you have any important info?
I also decided to use a Trio Avionic's EZ Pilot. I've built it in, but
I'm not flying yet. Their customer support is great indeed! Installation
is pretty straightforward, I linked the servo to the starboard stick,
and put the servo itself under the left thigh support.
The nice things are that it really communicates very well with the GPS,
and has very nice features, not seen in other auto pilots. The complete
installation is very lightweight.
Frans
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Jos Okhuisen |
Did I miss something, or is there indeed a silence about this subject?
I'm about to install a Woodcomp propellor, but I'm holding this off
until I have some more insight about the reliability of this system.
Also, nobody mentioned it yet, but I'm very interested in the cause of
the post landing fire. It is a horrible prospect that this can happen,
and I want to take all precautions to minimise this risk.
One thing I wonder is how the drain valves affect this risk. They
protude from under the skin, and once you glide through a tree or over a
rough surface, they will probably break off, and the fuel is free to
leak away, possibly inside the cabin if the assembly comes loose, or
otherwise under the airplane, which is not desirable as well.
Also, not having a switch on the main fuel pump (914) and route it not
via the main switch, as the manual recommends, introduces the risk that
the fuel pump pumps the entire tank contents inside the cabin after a
crash. Of course, having a switch on it introduces another risk: an
inadvertently switch off... How do others think about this subject?
BTW, it is no longer possible for me to answer on the Europa list via
the online forum. The mandatory spell-check malfunctions (it mutters
something about a debug mode?). Is there a way to bypass this spell
check or can someone switch it off?
Frans
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Autopilot /Trio Avionics - Dynon |
Hi,
I have had both the wing leveller and altitude hold installed in a Tecnam
Sierra connected to an Avmap 4 GPS. I had the standard altitude hold without
auto trim as the Sierra exhibits very little trim change during flight and
so did not go for the auto trim which is available if the aircraft has
electric trim fitted. The EZ 2 allows pre set climb or decent rates as well
and the EZ 3 does that but with the addition of it also levels off at a pre
set height.
Over the winter I have built another Sierra and have installing the new
Trio Pro Pilot which uses the same servos but all incorporated in one head.
This is in fact the wing leveller and EZ3 in one case and is cheaper as a
package than the two separate units to the same spec. This will be connected
to a "Flymap GPS" but the Trio units uses the standard NMEA 0183 signal
link that is common to most GPS. Pre made wiring harnesses are available if
required.
The Trio does what it says on the box and will fly the aircraft better than
you can. As for service, it is superb. I stripped a gear in my first one
through clumsiness on my part while adjusting the clutch and they sent me a
whole new servo by return..
Paul Mitchell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frans Veldman" <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Autopilot /Trio Avionics - Dynon
> <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
>
> Hi Raimo,
>
>> Trio Avionics Ez Pilot looks neat.
>> Also their customer support seems to be fast and pro, so far.
>>
>> What about users experiences?
>> Somebody there - do you have any important info?
>
> I also decided to use a Trio Avionic's EZ Pilot. I've built it in, but
> I'm not flying yet. Their customer support is great indeed! Installation
> is pretty straightforward, I linked the servo to the starboard stick,
> and put the servo itself under the left thigh support.
> The nice things are that it really communicates very well with the GPS,
> and has very nice features, not seen in other auto pilots. The complete
> installation is very lightweight.
>
> Frans
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
17:29
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Autopilot /Trio Avionics - Dynon |
I can vouch for the quality of the customer service from Trio - we
installed the unit but the data string from our GPS wasn't correct - we
shipped the GPS and head back to them and they did a 'special' in the
firmware so that it could understand our data stream - they shipped it
back to us - total cost 0 (or should that be $0).
The only thing that let our installation down was the quality of the
servo - we had the old style Navaids servo - the build quality was very
poor but they have since realised that and replaced it with a servo of
their own design.
Peter
How safe is your email? - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/securemail
__________________________________________________________
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rough River Camping area? |
Rough river state park has camping, and if you want you can camp with your airplane
Looking forward to seeing all this weekend.?
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????Scott and Corky,?N108EA?"Miss
Madisyn"????????????????????????????????????????????????
-----Original Message-----
From: Rich & Sandy Schultz <TheSchultzFamily@comcast.net>
Sent: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 11:33 pm
Subject: Europa-List: Rough River Camping area?
Does anyone have campsite numbers? I am looking at going if the weather
works out and need to set up my reservations and wanted to be in the same
area if possible.
Rich Schultz
N262AE
Message 7
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| Subject: | Off topic- The Tale of The Arab Flight Crew |
This was sent to me by a relative, apparently it was blacked out from the
news in europe etc due to Muslim sensitivity concerns
Subject: The Tale of The Arab Flight Crew
How stupid can you get? Well, this Arab flight crew will
show you. Photos
Show total destruction of a $200 million aircraft, brand
new off the
assembly line.
THE TALE OF THE ARAB FLIGHT CREW
Written by To The Point News
Friday, 16 May 2008
The brand spanking new Airbus 340-600, the largest
passenger airplane ever
built, sat in its hangar inToulouse, France without a
single hour of
airtime. Enter the Arab flight crew of Abu Dhabi Aircraft
Technologies
(ADAT) to conduct pre-delivery tests on the ground, such
as engine runups,
prior to delivery to Etihad Airways in Abu Dhabi .
The ADAT crew taxied the A340-600 to the run-up area. Then
they took all
four engines to takeoff power with a virtually empty
aircraft. Not having
read the run-up manuals, they had no clue just how light
an empty A340-600
really is.
The takeoff warning horn was blaring away in the cockpit
because they had
all 4 engines at full power. The aircraft computers
thought they were trying
to takeoff but it had not been configured properly
(flaps/slats, etc.)
Then one of the ADAT crew decided to pull the circuit
breaker on the Ground
Proximity Sensor to silence the alarm. This fools the
aircraft into
thinking it is in the air. The computers automatically
released all the
brakes and set the aircraft rocketing forward. The ADAT
crew had no idea
that this is a safety feature so that pilots can't land
with the brakes on.
Not one member of the seven-man Arab crew was smart enough
to throttle back
the engines from their max power setting, so the $200
million brand-new
aircraft crashed into a blast barrier, totaling it. The
extent of injuries
to the crew is unknown, for there has been a news blackout
in the major
media in France and elsewhere. Coverage of the story was
deemed insulting
to Moslem Arabs. Finally, the photos are starting to leak
out. Airbus $200
million aircraft meets retaining wall and the wall
wins....
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Jos Okhuisen |
Hi Frans and all,
The silence is the normal waiting for the investigation to come to a conclusion.
Today i had a long hearing about the course of events. While i have my theory
about what happened, i will wait until the final findings are published before
commenting. Nethertheless, lets put it this way, my choice will never again
be for a propellor without mechanical endstops, in addition to the electrical
limit switches. As a minimum i would add run to the outer limits and check outside
if the switches are really working and at the right limits. As i found out
the hard way, in the air it might be too late.
As for the fire risk: Difficult to do better then i did. Possibly, if i would have
had one second more time before hitting the trees, i would have followed the
emergengy drill better and switched off power before the crash. That maybe
would have delayed the fire. Now a thick branch wiped the right side of the cockpit
off, breaking the fuel return alu tube. The long range tank (full)survived
the blaze i was told. Even with the wheel retracted, the fuel test points stay
clear. Hmm, best way to prevent fire is not to crash, but i guess you know
that.
Regards,
Jos
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 9
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Jos
I am glad to see you on line again.
It is always easy to be wise after the event but each event by its very
nature is something new. We have all learned an important lesson from your
mishap.
Two things strike me:
1. you were remarkably lucky to escape without worse from landing in a tree
2. the fact that it was not worse suggests that the Europa is as safe as it
gets.
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of josok
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 07:38
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Jos Okhuisen
Hi Frans and all,
The silence is the normal waiting for the investigation to come to a
conclusion. Today i had a long hearing about the course of events. While i
have my theory about what happened, i will wait until the final findings are
published before commenting. Nethertheless, lets put it this way, my choice
will never again be for a propellor without mechanical endstops, in addition
to the electrical limit switches. As a minimum i would add run to the outer
limits and check outside if the switches are really working and at the right
limits. As i found out the hard way, in the air it might be too late.
As for the fire risk: Difficult to do better then i did. Possibly, if i
would have had one second more time before hitting the trees, i would have
followed the emergengy drill better and switched off power before the crash.
That maybe would have delayed the fire. Now a thick branch wiped the right
side of the cockpit off, breaking the fuel return alu tube. The long range
tank (full)survived the blaze i was told. Even with the wheel retracted, the
fuel test points stay clear. Hmm, best way to prevent fire is not to crash,
but i guess you know that.
Regards,
Jos
Checked by AVG.
17:29
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Jos Okhuisen |
Hi Will and all,
Before i forget again the most important thing i would like to say: Thank you all
for all the snail- email- sms's and phone calls. I knew this is a great community,
still all those people living these events with me is more then i did
expect. You probably will never know how very important your communications were
for me at the worst moments.
Yes, in my humble, crah tested opinion, the Europa is a safe plane, not only to
fly but also to crash. Still, on more then one account, the accident was not
survivable. I was extremely lucky, and the fact that being born Dutch makes me
a cheese-head might have helped to maintain consiousness and get out before the
fire really started bazing.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsrn
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 11
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| Subject: | Off topic- The Tale of The Arab Flight Crew |
While the assertion that "Tale of the Arab Flight Crew" has been blacked out
because of misplaced sensitivities may be correct, there is reason to
suspect the accuracy of the article's main points.
The source of this story is "To the Point News" at
http://www.tothepointnews.com/content/view/3207/85/ a site that is edited by
Dr. Jack Wheeler whose views might be considered a bit outside of the
mainstream of contemporary thought. To see why Wheeler might not be playing
it straight, see these examples of his political commentary where Wheeler
says Obama was using "either amphetamines or cocaine"
(http://www.tothepointnews.com/content/view/3208/2/) and McCain is accused
of "collaboration with his communist captors"
(http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=60020)
Wheeler seems, to me at least, to play it "a bit loose" with the facts.
For another on-line report (from a non-political aviation source) of this
incident see
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2007/11/19/219705/toulouse-accident-occ
urred-as-airbus-a340-was-exiting-engine-test-pen.html
In fairness to Wheeler I must admit that the Flightglobal version lacks
substance which in turn lends credence to the Wheeler article.
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, CA
Europa XS Tri-Gear
A070
Airframe complete
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig bastin
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:38 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Off topic- The Tale of The Arab Flight Crew
This was sent to me by a relative, apparently it was blacked out from the
news in europe etc due to Muslim sensitivity concerns
Subject: The Tale of The Arab Flight Crew
How stupid can you get? Well, this Arab flight crew will show you. Photos
Show total destruction of a $200 million aircraft, brand new off the
assembly line.
THE TALE OF THE ARAB FLIGHT CREW
Written by To The Point News
Friday, 16 May 2008
The brand spanking new Airbus 340-600, the largest passenger airplane ever
built, sat in its hangar inToulouse, France without a single hour of
airtime. Enter the Arab flight crew of Abu Dhabi Aircraft Technologies
(ADAT) to conduct pre-delivery tests on the ground, such as engine runups,
prior to delivery to Etihad Airways in Abu Dhabi .
The ADAT crew taxied the A340-600 to the run-up area. Then they took all
four engines to takeoff power with a virtually empty aircraft. Not having
read the run-up manuals, they had no clue just how light an empty A340-600
really is.
The takeoff warning horn was blaring away in the cockpit because they had
all 4 engines at full power. The aircraft computers thought they were trying
to takeoff but it had not been configured properly (flaps/slats, etc.)
Then one of the ADAT crew decided to pull the circuit breaker on the Ground
Proximity Sensor to silence the alarm. This fools the aircraft into
thinking it is in the air. The computers automatically released all the
brakes and set the aircraft rocketing forward. The ADAT crew had no idea
that this is a safety feature so that pilots can't land with the brakes on.
Not one member of the seven-man Arab crew was smart enough to throttle back
the engines from their max power setting, so the $200 million brand-new
aircraft crashed into a blast barrier, totaling it. The extent of injuries
to the crew is unknown, for there has been a news blackout in the major
media in France and elsewhere. Coverage of the story was deemed insulting
to Moslem Arabs. Finally, the photos are starting to leak out. Airbus $200
million aircraft meets retaining wall and the wall wins....
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Jos Okhuisen |
Hi Jos and all,
> Hi Frans and all, The silence is the normal waiting for the
> investigation to come to a conclusion.
Ok, I understand that. It is just that a few days ago you wrote that you
were going to post more detailed information the next day, but I never
saw it, so I wondered what happened. Glad that you are still ok.
> Now a thick branch wiped the right side of the cockpit off, breaking
> the fuel return alu tube.
Ok, two toughts about that:
1) The fuel return line is obviously a risk, as it can not be closed
with the fuel valve, and once broken it allows the tank to drain
completely. I just realised that this risk can be minimised by putting a
check-valve (one way valve) in the return line. So fuel can go TO the
tank, but never FROM the tank. Has anyone ever considered this? I think
I'm going to put this into my fuel system, unless someone can tell me
why it is not a good idea to do so.
2) I have seen that many builders do away with the rubber hoses and use
aluminium. Maybe the risk is higher with aluminium, since these tubes
breaks easily, whereas rubber hoses just give way to impacts.
Frans
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Jos Okhuisen |
josok wrote:
> I was extremely lucky, and the fact
> that being born Dutch makes me a cheese-head might have helped to
> maintain consiousness and get out before the fire really started
> bazing.
Well, that you consider being born Dutch made you survive the accident
is really encouraging for me. ;-)
Frans
Message 14
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| Subject: | Rough River / Jeff Burns |
HI All,
I just got off the cell phone with Jeff Burns of Baby Blue fame. As
most of you know he lives in Baton Rough LA and hurricane Gustov's eye
came within 20 miles of him. The entire town is without power but he is
still planning on driving to Rough River. This can only happen if the
power comes back by tomorrow night. They have printing machines with
his business he can't leave without power. He ask me to let you all
know and he will call me by tomorrow night to let me know one way or
the other. I will have his confirmation number should he not come for
the cabin as I was planning on splitting it with him. He told me of
someone that wanted the couch but I forgot who, so if you get this you
can e-mail me direct and know there will be a bedroom open up if he
can't make it. I will let everyone know what's going on with him & Mary
by tomorrow night.
He also said his local EAA hanger was leveled by the storm. Fortunately
he's had trouble with Baby Blue and it was in his garage for some
repairs. Sometimes it does seem like all things happen for a reason.
;o) Lets keep him in our thoughts.
Best Regards,
Jeff Roberts
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 149 hours and climbing slowly.
Message 15
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Hi! Frans/all
As a novice I agree with your suggestion on the "check valve" in the
return line and your impact theory for rubber pipes but the latter item
would be marginal either way IMHO. The main thing is to apply the
maximum delay of fuel spreading to the likely fire source at the front
or under you and an element of chance would apply to either type of
pipe. This is what has prompted me/many to replace the glass filters
under the seat for Andair in the fuselage away from the pilot and /or
have a different sight gauge to one encircling the pilot.
All such things have to be weight considered otherwise an automatic
extinguisher system with heavy tankage to supply but I'm sure you don't
need me to remark on that.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans
Veldman
Sent: 03 September 2008 16:52
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Jos Okhuisen
<frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
Hi Jos and all,
> Hi Frans and all, The silence is the normal waiting for the
> investigation to come to a conclusion.
Ok, I understand that. It is just that a few days ago you wrote that you
were going to post more detailed information the next day, but I never
saw it, so I wondered what happened. Glad that you are still ok.
> Now a thick branch wiped the right side of the cockpit off, breaking
> the fuel return alu tube.
Ok, two toughts about that:
1) The fuel return line is obviously a risk, as it can not be closed
with the fuel valve, and once broken it allows the tank to drain
completely. I just realised that this risk can be minimised by putting a
check-valve (one way valve) in the return line. So fuel can go TO the
tank, but never FROM the tank. Has anyone ever considered this? I think
I'm going to put this into my fuel system, unless someone can tell me
why it is not a good idea to do so.
2) I have seen that many builders do away with the rubber hoses and use
aluminium. Maybe the risk is higher with aluminium, since these tubes
breaks easily, whereas rubber hoses just give way to impacts.
Frans
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rough River Camping area? |
Hi Rich,
The Rough River folks let airplane people camp on the grass by there
aircraft. The bathrooms at the airstrip have hot showers, and if the
weather gets really bad you can just bring your matress & sleeping bag
into the FBO office.
I have camped many times during the canard fly in event and it has
worked out nicely for me.
So, in short, there are no assigned campsite number for airplane
people and plenty of room and you will be close to everything.
Look forward to seeing you there !
Regards, Paul
Message 17
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| Subject: | Autopilot /Trio Avionics - Dynon |
Raimo=2C
I have a Trutrak wingleveler and for the 200 hours I have flown it works gr
eat. It is slaved to the Garmin 430 and intercepts at the waypoints of the
route. Also good after sales service.
Best regards=2C
Karel Vranken.
> From: raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> To: europa-list@matronics.com> Subject: Europa
-List: Autopilot /Trio Avionics - Dynon> Date: Wed=2C 3 Sep 2008 10:54:57 +
.fi>> > All> > I have decided to install autopilot=2C probably one axis onl
y.> > Trio Avionic=B4s Ez Pilot looks neat.> Also their customer support se
ems to be fast and pro=2C so far.> > On the other hand=2C I have in my pane
l Dynon D10A.> I know there is a possibility to update it for Dynon=B4s aut
opilot.> That would be much cheaper way but somehow I do not like that idea
.> > What about user=B4s experience=B4s?> Somebody there - do you have any
========================> >
>
Message 18
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"This is what has prompted me/many to replace the glass filters
> under the seat for Andair in the fuselage away from the pilot"
Yes Bob, glass is very bad!
I broke one during towing the plane and one went later in the garage by
itself.
I was full off fuel bathing.
Local firearm people adviced me to make thinks beter.
Replaced them to the Original Rotax one-piece-plastic ones and have been
since happy.
Cheap, easy to check and maintain.
During possible emergency landing I am sure they (plastic fuel filters) will
be my smallest reason for worries.
Regards, Raimo
OH-XRT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert C Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 9:26 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Jos Okhuisen
> <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> Hi! Frans/all
> As a novice I agree with your suggestion on the "check valve" in the
> return line and your impact theory for rubber pipes but the latter item
> would be marginal either way IMHO. The main thing is to apply the
> maximum delay of fuel spreading to the likely fire source at the front
> or under you and an element of chance would apply to either type of
> pipe. This is what has prompted me/many to replace the glass filters
> under the seat for Andair in the fuselage away from the pilot and /or
> have a different sight gauge to one encircling the pilot.
> All such things have to be weight considered otherwise an automatic
> extinguisher system with heavy tankage to supply but I'm sure you don't
> need me to remark on that.
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans
> Veldman
> Sent: 03 September 2008 16:52
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Jos Okhuisen
>
> <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
>
> Hi Jos and all,
>
>> Hi Frans and all, The silence is the normal waiting for the
>> investigation to come to a conclusion.
>
> Ok, I understand that. It is just that a few days ago you wrote that you
> were going to post more detailed information the next day, but I never
> saw it, so I wondered what happened. Glad that you are still ok.
>
>> Now a thick branch wiped the right side of the cockpit off, breaking
>> the fuel return alu tube.
>
> Ok, two toughts about that:
>
> 1) The fuel return line is obviously a risk, as it can not be closed
> with the fuel valve, and once broken it allows the tank to drain
> completely. I just realised that this risk can be minimised by putting a
> check-valve (one way valve) in the return line. So fuel can go TO the
> tank, but never FROM the tank. Has anyone ever considered this? I think
> I'm going to put this into my fuel system, unless someone can tell me
> why it is not a good idea to do so.
>
> 2) I have seen that many builders do away with the rubber hoses and use
> aluminium. Maybe the risk is higher with aluminium, since these tubes
> breaks easily, whereas rubber hoses just give way to impacts.
>
> Frans
>
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Manifold Pressure Gauge |
X-mailer: iAVMailScanner 1.5.4.5
I am just filling in the LAA form to change our propeller (from a fixed
pitch to a CS version - Woodcomp/ Smart Avionics controller). The engine is
a Rotax 912 UL 80hp.
The LAA form says that the installation of a manifold pressure gauge is
mandatory. Anyone know why?
Its probably a dumb question but I dont understand the point of monitoring
manifold pressure on a normal engine. I always thought it was more relevant
to turbocharged engines.
Also where does one take the pressure takeoff on the engine - I would guess
the balancing pipe between the carburettors - is there a mod required on the
engine?
Thanks for the explanation in advance.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
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Message 20
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| Subject: | wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
I'm looking at the bottom of the control stick as I assemble the
various parts and am wondering what is the best practice (in UK) for
getting the wiring from a switch or switches mounted on the top of
the stick out of the stick at or near the bottom.
I had a troll through the list archives for various keywords but
couldn't find anything relevant, despite having a strong remembrance
of the topic being aired not so long ago.
I want a PTT at last on the P1 stick, but it would be nice to have a
duplicate trim switch there too. (Yes, I'm thinking about shielding
them from accidental activation.)
Obviously the electrical cable(s) should exit in a place that
minimises the chances of (a) fouling up the controls and (b) getting
chafed and causing shorts or open circuits.
It seems perhaps safest to make a hole in the aft side of the stick
(CS16) just above CS01. That way a conventional grommet can easily be
fitted, something that might be harder to do if the hole was lower
down and passing through the thickness of CS16, CS16B, and CS01.
What have other UK builders done that has met with approval from
inspectors and (if involved) LAA Engineering?
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/
| 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Manifold Pressure Gauge |
Hi! Carl
Don't know where you take it off on the 912 UL but the 914 has a sensor
already plumbed in .
You need the manifold pressure to know how much power you are applying (
you could be labouring the engine, since the prop is controlling the RPM
the throttle becomes the power applicator. I had this difficulty with
the 3300 Jabiru because they wouldn't give me MP/power/RPM/
ambient/altitude graphs I never knew where the engine was loaded until
many hours experimenting with fuel usage. Of course the Rotax is geared
so the RPM is still more complex.
Usually on a direct drive the rule of thumb is to run "squared" = 24" MP
to 2,400 Engine Rpm, at least in the initial stages of experimentation.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Pattinson
Sent: 03 September 2008 22:01
Subject: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge
<carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
I am just filling in the LAA form to change our propeller (from a fixed
pitch to a CS version - Woodcomp/ Smart Avionics controller). The engine
is
a Rotax 912 UL 80hp.
The LAA form says that the installation of a manifold pressure gauge is
mandatory. Anyone know why?
Its probably a dumb question but I dont understand the point of
monitoring
manifold pressure on a normal engine. I always thought it was more
relevant
to turbocharged engines.
Also where does one take the pressure takeoff on the engine - I would
guess
the balancing pipe between the carburettors - is there a mod required on
the
engine?
Thanks for the explanation in advance.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
_______________________________________
No viruses found in this outgoing message
Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5
http://www.iolo.com
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge |
Carl Pattinson wrote:
> <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> I am just filling in the LAA form to change our propeller (from a fixed
> pitch to a CS version - Woodcomp/ Smart Avionics controller). The engine
> is a Rotax 912 UL 80hp.
>
> The LAA form says that the installation of a manifold pressure gauge is
> mandatory. Anyone know why?
A CS prop keeps the rotation speed constant (hence the name Constant
Speed prop). The RMP gauge doesn't tell you the engine power anymore, it
shows just the prop setting. If you fly with a certain rpm, and throttle
back, nothing will change on your rpm gauge as the prop will keep the
rpm constant. Hence you won't notice anything as the engine looses power
for whatever reason. However, engine power can be determined by looking
at the manifold pressure. It is close to ambient pressure if the
throttle is wide open, and it will be showing a vacuum at idle, and of
course anything in between.
Frans
Message 23
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| Subject: | Manifold Pressure Gauge |
Hi Carl,
With a fixed pitch prop, you can get a relative indication of power
level from the engine rpm. So on a Cessna 152, your standard procedure
might be to pull the power back to 1500 rpm abeam the numbers on down
wind. With a constant speed prop, the rpm will be held constant over a
wide range of power settings, so the standard measure of power is
manifold pressure (although we also use fuel flow often). So on our
Europa I would normally pull the power back to 15 inches abeam the
numbers.
Regards,
Terry Seaver
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Pattinson
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 2:01 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge
--> <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
I am just filling in the LAA form to change our propeller (from a fixed
pitch to a CS version - Woodcomp/ Smart Avionics controller). The engine
is a Rotax 912 UL 80hp.
The LAA form says that the installation of a manifold pressure gauge is
mandatory. Anyone know why?
Its probably a dumb question but I dont understand the point of
monitoring manifold pressure on a normal engine. I always thought it was
more relevant to turbocharged engines.
Also where does one take the pressure takeoff on the engine - I would
guess the balancing pipe between the carburettors - is there a mod
required on the engine?
Thanks for the explanation in advance.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
_______________________________________
No viruses found in this outgoing message Scanned by iolo AntiVirus
1.5.4.5 http://www.iolo.com
Message 24
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| Subject: | wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
Hi! Rowland
Find the place of smallest movement but not to weaken the control stick
along with your own appraisals mentioned below.
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rowland &
Wilma Carson
Sent: 03 September 2008 17:37
Subject: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
<rowil@clara.net>
I'm looking at the bottom of the control stick as I assemble the
various parts and am wondering what is the best practice (in UK) for
getting the wiring from a switch or switches mounted on the top of
the stick out of the stick at or near the bottom.
I had a troll through the list archives for various keywords but
couldn't find anything relevant, despite having a strong remembrance
of the topic being aired not so long ago.
I want a PTT at last on the P1 stick, but it would be nice to have a
duplicate trim switch there too. (Yes, I'm thinking about shielding
them from accidental activation.)
Obviously the electrical cable(s) should exit in a place that
minimises the chances of (a) fouling up the controls and (b) getting
chafed and causing shorts or open circuits.
It seems perhaps safest to make a hole in the aft side of the stick
(CS16) just above CS01. That way a conventional grommet can easily be
fitted, something that might be harder to do if the hole was lower
down and passing through the thickness of CS16, CS16B, and CS01.
What have other UK builders done that has met with approval from
inspectors and (if involved) LAA Engineering?
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/
| 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
Message 25
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|
| Subject: | Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge |
If you have a constant speed controller, and there is a loss of power in the
engine ( for example from carb ice), the RPM will remain constant ( within
the limits of the prop/CS system) as the prop will fine off.
The simple way to tell what power the engine is producing, if a power loss
occours, is via manifold pressure gauge.
On 03/09/2008, Carl Pattinson <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> I am just filling in the LAA form to change our propeller (from a fixed
> pitch to a CS version - Woodcomp/ Smart Avionics controller). The engine is
> a Rotax 912 UL 80hp.
>
> The LAA form says that the installation of a manifold pressure gauge is
> mandatory. Anyone know why?
>
> Its probably a dumb question but I dont understand the point of monitoring
> manifold pressure on a normal engine. I always thought it was more relevant
> to turbocharged engines.
>
> Also where does one take the pressure takeoff on the engine - I would guess
> the balancing pipe between the carburettors - is there a mod required on the
> engine?
>
> Thanks for the explanation in advance.
>
> Carl Pattinson
> G-LABS
>
>
> _______________________________________
> No viruses found in this outgoing message
> Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5
> http://www.iolo.com
>
>
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
I have my only trim switch on the forward face of the stick. I was
excellent to use.
On 04/09/2008, Robert C Harrison <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
>
> ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> Hi! Rowland
> Find the place of smallest movement but not to weaken the control stick
> along with your own appraisals mentioned below.
> Regards
> Bob H G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rowland &
> Wilma Carson
> Sent: 03 September 2008 17:37
> To: Europa e-mail list
> Subject: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
>
> <rowil@clara.net>
>
> I'm looking at the bottom of the control stick as I assemble the
> various parts and am wondering what is the best practice (in UK) for
> getting the wiring from a switch or switches mounted on the top of
> the stick out of the stick at or near the bottom.
>
> I had a troll through the list archives for various keywords but
> couldn't find anything relevant, despite having a strong remembrance
> of the topic being aired not so long ago.
>
> I want a PTT at last on the P1 stick, but it would be nice to have a
> duplicate trim switch there too. (Yes, I'm thinking about shielding
> them from accidental activation.)
>
> Obviously the electrical cable(s) should exit in a place that
> minimises the chances of (a) fouling up the controls and (b) getting
> chafed and causing shorts or open circuits.
>
> It seems perhaps safest to make a hole in the aft side of the stick
> (CS16) just above CS01. That way a conventional grommet can easily be
> fitted, something that might be harder to do if the hole was lower
> down and passing through the thickness of CS16, CS16B, and CS01.
>
> What have other UK builders done that has met with approval from
> inspectors and (if involved) LAA Engineering?
>
> regards
>
> Rowland
> --
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Jos Okhuisen |
Frans & all
I agree a check valve might be good. I also think in a serious crash
either rubber or aluminum will fail.
The most likely cause of fire is electrical, as Jos tells us, first
action is to shut off the electrics.
In my crash I think the tank split. Battery was at the front and shot
off forwards straight away so "automatic switch off" probably occurred
as it were.
The problem is, when the workload gets too high one forgets the plan, ie
"we lose the plot!" I always tell mono drivers to pull stick full back
as soon as they feel the tailwheel touch. I never did remember to do it
myself, my brain was busy doing something else. Age? maybe but the more
you train yourself in these vital actions the more likely you will do it
when muck hits fan
Graham
Robert C Harrison wrote:
>
> Hi! Frans/all
> As a novice I agree with your suggestion on the "check valve" in the
> return line
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
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