Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:18 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (David Joyce)
2. 02:56 AM - Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge (Richard Collings)
3. 03:48 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (William Harrison)
4. 06:21 AM - AW: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (UVTReith)
5. 06:39 AM - refueling troubles (yannick LAURENS)
6. 07:44 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
7. 07:44 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
8. 07:44 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
9. 07:44 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
10. 08:10 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Robert C Harrison)
11. 08:59 AM - fire extinguisher (danny shepherd)
12. 09:16 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk)
13. 09:46 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Robert C Harrison)
14. 09:49 AM - Re: fire extinguisher (Robert C Harrison)
15. 10:19 AM - Re: fire extinguisher (Karl Heindl)
16. 11:21 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Graham Singleton)
17. 11:53 AM - CS10 rivet hole positions (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
18. 12:15 PM - Re: fire extinguisher (david miller)
19. 12:17 PM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Raimo Toivio)
20. 12:23 PM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Karel Vranken)
21. 12:31 PM - Re: fire extinguisher (Raimo Toivio)
22. 12:41 PM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Raimo Toivio)
23. 12:41 PM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_fire_extinguisher? (Carl Pattinson)
24. 12:50 PM - Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge (Raimo Toivio)
25. 12:50 PM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_fire_extinguisher? (Carl Pattinson)
26. 01:24 PM - Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge (JEFF ROBERTS)
27. 01:28 PM - Re: Re: fire extinguisher (David Buckley)
28. 01:28 PM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
29. 01:35 PM - Re: fire extinguisher (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
30. 01:39 PM - Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge (Karl Heindl)
31. 01:39 PM - Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge (Karl Heindl)
32. 02:26 PM - Re: CS10 rivet hole positions (Robert C Harrison)
33. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: fire extinguisher (Brian Davies)
34. 02:55 PM - AW: fire extinguisher (UVTReith)
35. 03:20 PM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_Manifold_Pressure_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gauge? (Carl Pattinson)
36. 03:34 PM - Re: Jos Okhuisen (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
37. 03:37 PM - Fw: fire extinguisher (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
38. 03:41 PM - Fw: Fire extinguishers (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
39. 05:07 PM - Rough River (Troy Maynor)
40. 10:22 PM - Re: fire extinguisher (Mike Parkin)
41. 10:37 PM - Re: Re: fire extinguisher (Mike Parkin)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
Rowland, An exit hole at the back of the stick just above CS01 has worked
well for me. The wire is covered by a flexible boot designed to stop the
pens & other things you will drop jamming the controls.
As to trim on the stick, there is the thought that if you fly with
other pilots and share the flying, then the co pilot will want access to the
trim. For me having the switch with the indicator and a CB in some central
position, reasonably close to the throttle hand, makes more sense.
Regards, David, G-XSDJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rowland & Wilma Carson" <rowil@clara.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 5:36 PM
Subject: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
> <rowil@clara.net>
>
> I'm looking at the bottom of the control stick as I assemble the various
> parts and am wondering what is the best practice (in UK) for getting the
> wiring from a switch or switches mounted on the top of the stick out of
> the stick at or near the bottom.
>
> I had a troll through the list archives for various keywords but couldn't
> find anything relevant, despite having a strong remembrance of the topic
> being aired not so long ago.
>
> I want a PTT at last on the P1 stick, but it would be nice to have a
> duplicate trim switch there too. (Yes, I'm thinking about shielding them
> from accidental activation.)
>
> Obviously the electrical cable(s) should exit in a place that minimises
> the chances of (a) fouling up the controls and (b) getting chafed and
> causing shorts or open circuits.
>
> It seems perhaps safest to make a hole in the aft side of the stick (CS16)
> just above CS01. That way a conventional grommet can easily be fitted,
> something that might be harder to do if the hole was lower down and
> passing through the thickness of CS16, CS16B, and CS01.
>
> What have other UK builders done that has met with approval from
> inspectors and (if involved) LAA Engineering?
>
> regards
>
> Rowland
> --
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge |
Carl Hi. Its not a dumb question at all, but one that you will have answered
to when you have completed the PPL licence endorsement cause for complexes
aircraft, i.e., those fitted with a variable pitch prop!You may already this
because of the mono's retractable undercarriage, but a couple of hours spent
under instruction in a complex single would be money well spent.
Regards Richard
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 10:00 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge
> <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> I am just filling in the LAA form to change our propeller (from a fixed
> pitch to a CS version - Woodcomp/ Smart Avionics controller). The engine
> is
> a Rotax 912 UL 80hp.
>
> The LAA form says that the installation of a manifold pressure gauge is
> mandatory. Anyone know why?
>
> Its probably a dumb question but I dont understand the point of monitoring
> manifold pressure on a normal engine. I always thought it was more
> relevant
> to turbocharged engines.
>
> Also where does one take the pressure takeoff on the engine - I would
> guess
> the balancing pipe between the carburettors - is there a mod required on
> the
> engine?
>
> Thanks for the explanation in advance.
>
> Carl Pattinson
> G-LABS
>
>
> _______________________________________
> No viruses found in this outgoing message
> Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5
> http://www.iolo.com
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
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Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
Does anyone know a source of pre-made stick boots for the Europa?
Alternatively, does anyone have a they can share?
Cheers
Willie Harrison
G-BZNY Kit 401
> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> Rowland, An exit hole at the back of the stick just above CS01 has
> worked well for me. The wire is covered by a flexible boot designed
> to stop the pens & other things you will drop jamming the controls.
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
Hi Willie,
Europa Aircraft UK can supply these. Leather gaiters in grey and beige.
45 GBP per set.
They have these self locking tapes on for fixing it to the floor and seat.
But you can use them only, when you can get them over the stick. When you
have a big grip on they will not fit or you have to open the sewing of the
top part a little.
Best Regards,
Bruno
-----Ursprngliche Nachricht-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von William
Harrison
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. September 2008 10:51
An: europa-list@matronics.com
Betreff: Re: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
<willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk>
Does anyone know a source of pre-made stick boots for the Europa?
Alternatively, does anyone have a they can share?
Cheers
Willie Harrison
G-BZNY Kit 401
> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> Rowland, An exit hole at the back of the stick just above CS01 has
> worked well for me. The wire is covered by a flexible boot designed
> to stop the pens & other things you will drop jamming the controls.
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | refueling troubles |
In fact, my air vent for the tank is just above the filling connection
on the tank , and exit near the cap, and there is a low spot on the
tube, so probably , some gasoline enter the tube from time to time . but
I am surprise for the possibillity of air lock, during the refueling ??
thank's for your reply
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
At 2008-09-04 09:17 +0100 David Joyce wrote:
>An exit hole at the back of the stick just above CS01 has worked
>well for me. The wire is covered by a flexible boot designed to stop
>the pens & other things you will drop jamming the controls.
David - thanks, I have a set of Tim Ward's boots, but I'm not sure
about keeping the wiring inside them as there is no guarantee that
the wires won't chafe on the moving parts while out of sight in
there. I think I'd prefer to take the wire down the outside of the
boot, although that would be less aesthetic. However I suppose
(thinking aloud here) the ideal solution would be an extra strip of
leather sewn on to the outside (or even better inside) of the boot to
form a channel down the boot between its (mobile) top edge and its
(fixed) bottom edge. That would keep the wire under control and
pretty safe from chafing as well as from snagging on one's high heels.
>if you fly with other pilots and share the flying, then the co pilot
>will want access to the trim. For me having the switch with the
>indicator and a CB in some central position, reasonably close to the
>throttle hand, makes more sense.
I was thinking of a duplicate switch on the stick, leaving the
central one in position, but I don't know if LAA Engineering has
approved such an arrangement. If not, I wouldn't want to be the first
to lock horns with them over FMEA!
It's just that most of the aircraft I've flown with electric trim
have a rocker switch on the yoke and I've found that so much more
ergonomic and fast to use than reaching across to a separate switch
or a mechanical trim wheel.
However, I may have to settle for a single central switch just to
keep life simple.
Incidentally, I'm not planning to use a commercial stick grip as they
are mostly fitted with much more complex switchery than what I want.
I do believe that the grips I want are hiding inside some chucks of
mahogany that I have lying around - I just have to let them out, as
the sculptors say. But before I do that, I will need to decide how
many switches they must accomodate and where the switch(es) should go
.....
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/
| 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
At 2008-09-03 23:17 +0100 peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
>I wouldn't drill the stick to the size for a conventional gromit -
>this would seriously weaken the stick
Peter - I hadn't considered that a hole big enough for a grommet
would compromise the strength of the stick - after all it's got to
have 2 off 1/4" holes drilled in it near the bottom for the AN4-17A
bolt that secures it to CS01.
>the reason that the stick
>diameter was increased when it went from steel to ali was that the ali
>stick at the smaller diameter was not stong enough at higher G
Now I'm really confused! My CS16 are steel, have 2 bends and are 1"
OD. They came in an XS fuselage kit collected in September 2001. When
did the sticks change to aluminium?
I know the original Classic sticks were straight, but I don't know
what diameter they were or what material they were made of. My paper
manual (page 13-11 issue 1) still shows the straight sticks, but
later PDFs show the cranked ones.
This suggests that there been 3 different types of stick supplied in
Europa kits over the years - straight Classic, small steel cranked,
large aluminium cranked. Is that correct?
>On HI, we have drilled holes at an angle to the stick (heading
>downwards) at the front of the stick (just above the point where the
>stick passes in to the tuffnel bush). the hole is bigger than the
>screened wire that runs to the PTT (and comm box frequency change) -
>I've put some heatshrink over the screened cable where it passes
>through the stick (and a zip tie each side to make sure that the cable
>stays in place)
That sounds OK. If the grommet is eliminated I think you definitely
need to ensure that the wire is not going to move relative to the
metal and thus chafe. After deburring the hole (as far away from
orthogonal to stick surface as possible so the wire has a minimal
chicane to negotiate) I'm inclined to go for a tie-wrap around the
stick below the exit, and some sort of bung or spacer to immobilise
it inside and above the hole too.
It would be interesting to know if there is any authoritative answer
to how large a hole can safely be made in the stick - and how that
answer changes for the (3?) different models of stick!
I'm copying this reply back to the list as Peter's e-mail client has
been set to reply to the "from" address (me) rather than the
"reply-to" address (the list).
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/
| 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
Message 8
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| Subject: | wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
At 2008-09-03 23:09 +0100 Robert C Harrison wrote:
>Find the place of smallest movement but not to weaken the control stick
Bob - I think least movement is somewhere between the pitch-axis
pivot bolt and the rod-end-bearing connecting to the pitch pushrod.
It looks as though there is enough room inside CS01 to get the sort
of wire I want to use past the AN5-23 pitch pivot bolt. CS01 is
fairly beefy there, so I'd hope a radial hole would not cause
significant weakness, but it would be nice to have an answer from
someone who knows about the stress calculations for that part.
That exit hole would be insde the leather boot and so I'd want to
make the sort of anti-chafe provision for the wire that I dreamed up
in my reply to David Joyce.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/
| 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
At 2008-09-04 09:50 +0100 William Harrison wrote:
>Does anyone know a source of pre-made stick boots for the Europa?
Willie - Tim Ward, a regular poster on this list, sells nice leather
ones made by a leatherworker in NZ, and supplies them worldwide.
>Alternatively, does anyone have a they can share?
Not sure how that would work .... Mine are not in service yet, but
I'm planning to keep them fitted once they're on!
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/
| 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
Message 10
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| Subject: | wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
Hi! Willie
I recall that a guy in New Zealand made quite a lot in leather but I
have no details of them. I made a fiberglass box to encompass the whole
mechanism at the bottom of both control sticks and they have a simple
leather boot to the sticks and a draw string to tighten them on. Go to
http://www.crix.org.uk and click on "Bob Harrison's Europa G-PTAG" then
select Control Sticks.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Harrison
Sent: 04 September 2008 09:51
Subject: Re: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
<willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk>
Does anyone know a source of pre-made stick boots for the Europa?
Alternatively, does anyone have a they can share?
Cheers
Willie Harrison
G-BZNY Kit 401
> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> Rowland, An exit hole at the back of the stick just above CS01 has
> worked well for me. The wire is covered by a flexible boot designed
> to stop the pens & other things you will drop jamming the controls.
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | fire extinguisher |
Hi All,
Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in
there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking at the
usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should fit.
Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight)
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
Hi Roland
You are correct in that there have been (at least) 3 designs of stick
- As you say, the early ones were straight - The position of these was
so far forwards that the PTT very nearly touches the map tray.
When we bought HI, it had a stick with a single crank in and made from
Ali - this was the larger diameter (ie it fitted into the CS-01 without
a bush). The position was pretty good but still not great.
The later ones, supplied in the XS kits are double cranked, smaller
diameter (requiring a bush to allow it to fit to the CS-01) - this
places the stick much better for those of us of a shorter stature.
Peter
----Original Message----
From: rowil@clara.net
Subj: Re: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
net>
At 2008-09-03 23:17 +0100 peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk wrote:
>I wouldn't drill the stick to the size for a conventional gromit -
>this would seriously weaken the stick
Peter - I hadn't considered that a hole big enough for a grommet
would compromise the strength of the stick - after all it's got to
have 2 off 1/4" holes drilled in it near the bottom for the AN4-17A
bolt that secures it to CS01.
>the reason that the stick
>diameter was increased when it went from steel to ali was that the
ali
>stick at the smaller diameter was not stong enough at higher G
Now I'm really confused! My CS16 are steel, have 2 bends and are 1"
OD. They came in an XS fuselage kit collected in September 2001. When
did the sticks change to aluminium?
I know the original Classic sticks were straight, but I don't know
what diameter they were or what material they were made of. My paper
manual (page 13-11 issue 1) still shows the straight sticks, but
later PDFs show the cranked ones.
This suggests that there been 3 different types of stick supplied in
Europa kits over the years - straight Classic, small steel cranked,
large aluminium cranked. Is that correct?
>On HI, we have drilled holes at an angle to the stick (heading
>downwards) at the front of the stick (just above the point where the
>stick passes in to the tuffnel bush). the hole is bigger than the
>screened wire that runs to the PTT (and comm box frequency change) -
>I've put some heatshrink over the screened cable where it passes
>through the stick (and a zip tie each side to make sure that the
cable
>stays in place)
That sounds OK. If the grommet is eliminated I think you definitely
need to ensure that the wire is not going to move relative to the
metal and thus chafe. After deburring the hole (as far away from
orthogonal to stick surface as possible so the wire has a minimal
chicane to negotiate) I'm inclined to go for a tie-wrap around the
stick below the exit, and some sort of bung or spacer to immobilise
it inside and above the hole too.
It would be interesting to know if there is any authoritative answer
to how large a hole can safely be made in the stick - and how that
answer changes for the (3?) different models of stick!
I'm copying this reply back to the list as Peter's e-mail client has
been set to reply to the "from" address (me) rather than the
"reply-to" address (the list).
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/
| 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
How safe is your email? - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/securemail
__________________________________________________________
Message 13
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| Subject: | wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
Hi! Rowland
Just for the record I have the whole works in the stick top by Mac,
that is trim flaps and PTT. Andy Draper on Test(Before he went to the
PFA) was concerned about the use of charts activating the buttons since
they are very sensitive. I had a picture of a flip top cover I made to
get over this problem on the http://www.crix.org.uk site but it seems to
have gone missing, John Cliff may have been shrinking the site a little
and decided to remove it . I also have all the switches duplicated on
the panel but the relays necessary are a bit mind blowing! I hope there
is never an issue needing them sorted whilst I have the 'plane !
regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rowland &
Wilma Carson
Sent: 04 September 2008 15:42
Subject: Re: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
<rowil@clara.net>
At 2008-09-04 09:17 +0100 David Joyce wrote:
>An exit hole at the back of the stick just above CS01 has worked
>well for me. The wire is covered by a flexible boot designed to stop
>the pens & other things you will drop jamming the controls.
David - thanks, I have a set of Tim Ward's boots, but I'm not sure
about keeping the wiring inside them as there is no guarantee that
the wires won't chafe on the moving parts while out of sight in
there. I think I'd prefer to take the wire down the outside of the
boot, although that would be less aesthetic. However I suppose
(thinking aloud here) the ideal solution would be an extra strip of
leather sewn on to the outside (or even better inside) of the boot to
form a channel down the boot between its (mobile) top edge and its
(fixed) bottom edge. That would keep the wire under control and
pretty safe from chafing as well as from snagging on one's high heels.
>if you fly with other pilots and share the flying, then the co pilot
>will want access to the trim. For me having the switch with the
>indicator and a CB in some central position, reasonably close to the
>throttle hand, makes more sense.
I was thinking of a duplicate switch on the stick, leaving the
central one in position, but I don't know if LAA Engineering has
approved such an arrangement. If not, I wouldn't want to be the first
to lock horns with them over FMEA!
It's just that most of the aircraft I've flown with electric trim
have a rocker switch on the yoke and I've found that so much more
ergonomic and fast to use than reaching across to a separate switch
or a mechanical trim wheel.
However, I may have to settle for a single central switch just to
keep life simple.
Incidentally, I'm not planning to use a commercial stick grip as they
are mostly fitted with much more complex switchery than what I want.
I do believe that the grips I want are hiding inside some chucks of
mahogany that I have lying around - I just have to let them out, as
the sculptors say. But before I do that, I will need to decide how
many switches they must accomodate and where the switch(es) should go
.....
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/
| 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
Message 14
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| Subject: | fire extinguisher |
Hi! Danny
I have a CFC ?(Believe it was that can't say positively since the
aircraft is locked away in the trailor , it's not water and not powder
anyway!) behind the passenger seat head rest and part of the passenger
drill is to point out where it is .......it gives them lots of
confidence !
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of danny
shepherd
Sent: 04 September 2008 16:58
Subject: Europa-List: fire extinguisher
<danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>
Hi All,
Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in
there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking at the
usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should fit.
Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight)
Message 15
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| Subject: | fire extinguisher |
Danny=2C
I have a halon gas extiguisher. as far as i know it is only available from
acs. position is same as described by bob.
Karl<html><div></div>> Date: Thu=2C 4 Sep 2008 16:58:03 +0100> From:
danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> To: europa-list@matronics.com> Subject: Europa-
d <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>> > Hi All=2C> Can anyone tell me what kind of
fire extinguisher they have in > there plane=2C and where about did they f
it it. I have been looking at the > usual suppliers=2C and I'm a bit confus
ed as to which one I should fit.> > Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to t
============> > >
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
Robert C Harrison wrote:
>
> Hi! Rowland
> Just for the record I have the whole works in the stick top by Mac,
> that is trim flaps and PTT. Andy Draper on Test(Before he went to the
> PFA) was concerned about the use of charts activating the buttons since
> they are very sensitive. I had a picture of a flip top cover I made to
> get over this problem on the http://www.crix.org.uk site but it seems to
> have gone missing,
I know of one case where the Mac switch probably got nudged and caused
the aircraft to be grossly out of trim (nose up) the aircraft spun in
from about 100 feet
Graham
Message 17
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| Subject: | CS10 rivet hole positions |
I have (rather foolishly it seems) bonded the CS10C caps into the
ends of the CS10 pitch torque tube without measuring the depth of the
CS10C flanges. Now that I come to add the rivets, nowhere on the
diagrams or text can I find reference to how far fom the end of CS10
the rivet holes should be drilled. I have a mental picture of the
CS10C flange, but I don't feel comfortable drilling holes based on
that! There's not a lot of leeway between (a) having the hole too
close to the front face of CS10C so the rivet will be obstructed by
it and won't set properly and (b) having it too far away and breaking
out of the edge of the flange.
Anyone got a CS01C not yet inserted that they can measure and let me
have the depth of the flange, please?
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/
| 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: fire extinguisher |
Hi Danny,
Same as Karl, I have a Halon extinguisher, had to bring it in from
Oshkosh as
they don't seem to be allowed to be sold in Canada.
Mounted on the centre consul, low down, just ahead of the seat and
angled forward.
I can reach it from there, and it is not in the way of feet or legs.
Dave
On 4-Sep-08, at 1:18 PM, Karl Heindl wrote:
> Danny,
>
> I have a halon gas extiguisher. as far as i know it is only
> available from acs. position is same as described by bob.
> Karl
>
> <html><div></div>
>
> > Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 16:58:03 +0100
> > From: danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk
> > To: europa-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Europa-List: fire extinguisher
> >
> <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>
> >
> > Hi All,
> > Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in
> > there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking
> at the
> > usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should
> fit.
> >
> > Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight)
> >
> > ========
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
I have two trim swithes: one is in the stick (full speed)
and other one is on the panel (adjustable speed).
I use stick switch when landing (low air speed - faster trim speed)
and panel switch during cruise (fast air speed - slower trim speed).
I have a changeover switch to select which mode to use.
If one switch would go broken, I have still other one left over to trim.
Trim CB is near panel switch just in case to stop possible autotrim.
Raimo
OH-XT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Singleton" <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:22 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
>
> Robert C Harrison wrote:
> >
> > Hi! Rowland
> > Just for the record I have the whole works in the stick top by Mac,
> > that is trim flaps and PTT. Andy Draper on Test(Before he went to the
> > PFA) was concerned about the use of charts activating the buttons since
> > they are very sensitive. I had a picture of a flip top cover I made to
> > get over this problem on the http://www.crix.org.uk site but it seems to
> > have gone missing,
> I know of one case where the Mac switch probably got nudged and caused
> the aircraft to be grossly out of trim (nose up) the aircraft spun in
> from about 100 feet
> Graham
>
>
>
>
>
Message 20
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| Subject: | wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
Rowland=2C
I have both trim controls=2C one on the stick and one on the panel with the
matronics control system. This works first used first served.
Best regards=2C
Karel vranken.
> From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> To: europa-list@matronics.com> Subject:
Re: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?> Date: Thu=2C 4 Sep
vidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>> > Rowland=2C An exit hole at the back of the stic
k just above CS01 has worked > well for me. The wire is covered by a flexib
le boot designed to stop the > pens & other things you will drop jamming th
e controls.> As to trim on the stick=2C there is the thought that if you fl
y with > other pilots and share the flying=2C then the co pilot will want a
ccess to the > trim. For me having the switch with the indicator and a CB i
n some central > position=2C reasonably close to the throttle hand=2C makes
more sense.> Regards=2C David=2C G-XSDJ> ----- Original Message ----- > Fr
om: "Rowland & Wilma Carson" <rowil@clara.net>> To: "Europa e-mail list" <e
uropa-list@matronics.com>> Sent: Wednesday=2C September 03=2C 2008 5:36 PM>
Subject: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?> > > > --> Eur
opa-List message posted by: Rowland & Wilma Carson > > <rowil@clara.net>> >
> > I'm looking at the bottom of the control stick as I assemble the variou
s > > parts and am wondering what is the best practice (in UK) for getting
the > > wiring from a switch or switches mounted on the top of the stick ou
t of > > the stick at or near the bottom.> >> > I had a troll through the l
ist archives for various keywords but couldn't > > find anything relevant
=2C despite having a strong remembrance of the topic > > being aired not so
long ago.> >> > I want a PTT at last on the P1 stick=2C but it would be ni
ce to have a > > duplicate trim switch there too. (Yes=2C I'm thinking abou
t shielding them > > from accidental activation.)> >> > Obviously the elect
rical cable(s) should exit in a place that minimises > > the chances of (a)
fouling up the controls and (b) getting chafed and > > causing shorts or o
pen circuits.> >> > It seems perhaps safest to make a hole in the aft side
of the stick (CS16) > > just above CS01. That way a conventional grommet ca
n easily be fitted=2C > > something that might be harder to do if the hole
was lower down and > > passing through the thickness of CS16=2C CS16B=2C an
d CS01.> >> > What have other UK builders done that has met with approval f
rom > > inspectors and (if involved) LAA Engineering?> >> > regards> >> > R
owland> > -- > > | Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/av
iation/> > | 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net
============> > >
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: fire extinguisher |
Danny,
when airborne, Halon is your one and ONLY possibility in the case of fire.
Normal "on the ground use" is illegal but aviation use is still legal.
CO2 and powder types will kill you ( + powder spoils your panel etc!!!).
Water-fox-type -extinguishers are also not very practical.
There was a great article of that question this year in the magazine
Sport Pilot or Sport Aviation (USA EAA). Maybe some
American could find that article and let us know the main facts.
If not I wll do it.
I fitted my (little) bottle between centre console and P2 backseat.
Always visible and easy to find and use.
Raimo from Finland
OH-XRT
----- Original Message -----
From: "danny shepherd" <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 6:58 PM
Subject: Europa-List: fire extinguisher
>
> Hi All,
> Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in
> there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking at the
> usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should fit.
>
> Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight)
>
>
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
Tim Ward from NZ makes great boots.
I am very proud of mine. All the colours available.
Raimo from Finland
OH-XRT
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Harrison" <willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
>
>
> Does anyone know a source of pre-made stick boots for the Europa?
>
> Alternatively, does anyone have a they can share?
>
> Cheers
>
> Willie Harrison
> G-BZNY Kit 401
>
> > <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
> >
> > Rowland, An exit hole at the back of the stick just above CS01 has
> > worked well for me. The wire is covered by a flexible boot designed
> > to stop the pens & other things you will drop jamming the controls.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
Message 23
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| Subject: | =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_fire_extinguisher? |
X-mailer: iAVMailScanner 1.5.4.5
I may be wrong Danni but I think Halon extinguishers are now no longer
available in the UK anyway (aka BCF bromo chloro fluorethane) because they
are considered harmful to the environment.
Legislation prohibits the sale of halon products from December 31st 2002. -
NO IM NOT WRONG !!! http://www.mfs-fire-extinguishers.co.uk/halon.htm
The only other alternative suitable for aircraft use are dry powder. Water
is unsuitable for aircraft use and too heavy and foam although acceptable is
also too heavy. CO2 is probably the best substitute but again too heavy for
aircraft use.
Halon if you can get it is undoubtedly the best as it is effective against a
wide range of fires and wont damage the aircraft structure, engine or wiring
if used. I have seen all of the above used in real life and used properly
the Halon variety is by far the best - note Halon is extremely toxic in
confined spaces (you wouldnt want to use it in an enclosed cockpit).
We have a Halon extinguisher 3kg but its getting on a bit (it had a twin but
I accidentally set it off in the garage by mistake last week - but at least
it proved the thing worked).
Good luck in your search.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
----- Original Message -----
From: "danny shepherd" <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 4:58 PM
Subject: Europa-List: fire extinguisher
> <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>
>
> Hi All,
> Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in
> there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking at the
> usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should fit.
>
> Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight)
>
>
> _______________________________________
> No viruses found in this incoming message
> Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5
> http://www.iolo.com
>
_______________________________________
No viruses found in this outgoing message
Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5
http://www.iolo.com
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge |
I am looking for a very small MAP gauge - digital or analogical.
Does anybody have a tip?
Ideal would be a CS prop controller WITH integrated gauge
but there obviously does not exist any.
Raimo from Finland
OH-XRT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Collings" <r.collings@onetel.net>
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge
>
> Carl Hi. Its not a dumb question at all, but one that you will have answered
> to when you have completed the PPL licence endorsement cause for complexes
> aircraft, i.e., those fitted with a variable pitch prop!You may already this
> because of the mono's retractable undercarriage, but a couple of hours spent
> under instruction in a complex single would be money well spent.
> Regards Richard
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 10:00 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge
>
>
> > <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
> >
> > I am just filling in the LAA form to change our propeller (from a fixed
> > pitch to a CS version - Woodcomp/ Smart Avionics controller). The engine
> > is
> > a Rotax 912 UL 80hp.
> >
> > The LAA form says that the installation of a manifold pressure gauge is
> > mandatory. Anyone know why?
> >
> > Its probably a dumb question but I dont understand the point of monitoring
> > manifold pressure on a normal engine. I always thought it was more
> > relevant
> > to turbocharged engines.
> >
> > Also where does one take the pressure takeoff on the engine - I would
> > guess
> > the balancing pipe between the carburettors - is there a mod required on
> > the
> > engine?
> >
> > Thanks for the explanation in advance.
> >
> > Carl Pattinson
> > G-LABS
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________
> > No viruses found in this outgoing message
> > Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5
> > http://www.iolo.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> 6:02 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_fire_extinguisher? |
X-mailer: iAVMailScanner 1.5.4.5
Exceptions for Usage of Halon Fire Extinguishers
There are only three main exceptions for Halon fire extinguisher usage; in
aircraft, military use including vehicles and fuel installations, and in the
Channel Tunnel. So, don't worry if you spot a green Halon fire extinguisher
on an airplane - it's allowed to be there!
It appears I am wrong regarding the use of Halon extinguishers. Apparently
Aircraft use is exempt from the ruling. The question is where to get them
from.
I note they are widely available in the USA but suspect importing them into
the UK would present a problem.
----- Original Message -----
From: "danny shepherd" <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>
Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 4:58 PM
Subject: Europa-List: fire extinguisher
> <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>
>
> Hi All,
> Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in
> there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking at the
> usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should fit.
>
> Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight)
>
>
> _______________________________________
> No viruses found in this incoming message
> Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5
> http://www.iolo.com
>
_______________________________________
No viruses found in this outgoing message
Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5
http://www.iolo.com
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge |
Raimo,
I don't know about the gauge but I couldn't help noticing your
beautiful Europa in this months EAA Sport Aviation. Congratulations on
a great looking plane and thanks for some fine recognition of our
plane.
Jeff Roberts,
USA
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 150 hours and climbing slowly.
On Sep 4, 2008, at 3:05 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote:
>
> I am looking for a very small MAP gauge - digital or analogical.
> Does anybody have a tip?
>
> Ideal would be a CS prop controller WITH integrated gauge
> but there obviously does not exist any.
>
> Raimo from Finland
> OH-XRT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Collings" <r.collings@onetel.net>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge
>
>
>> <r.collings@onetel.net>
>>
>> Carl Hi. Its not a dumb question at all, but one that you will have
>> answered
>> to when you have completed the PPL licence endorsement cause for
>> complexes
>> aircraft, i.e., those fitted with a variable pitch prop!You may
>> already this
>> because of the mono's retractable undercarriage, but a couple of
>> hours spent
>> under instruction in a complex single would be money well spent.
>> Regards Richard
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 10:00 PM
>> Subject: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge
>>
>>
>>> <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>>>
>>> I am just filling in the LAA form to change our propeller (from a
>>> fixed
>>> pitch to a CS version - Woodcomp/ Smart Avionics controller). The
>>> engine
>>> is
>>> a Rotax 912 UL 80hp.
>>>
>>> The LAA form says that the installation of a manifold pressure gauge
>>> is
>>> mandatory. Anyone know why?
>>>
>>> Its probably a dumb question but I dont understand the point of
>>> monitoring
>>> manifold pressure on a normal engine. I always thought it was more
>>> relevant
>>> to turbocharged engines.
>>>
>>> Also where does one take the pressure takeoff on the engine - I would
>>> guess
>>> the balancing pipe between the carburettors - is there a mod
>>> required on
>>> the
>>> engine?
>>>
>>> Thanks for the explanation in advance.
>>>
>>> Carl Pattinson
>>> G-LABS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________
>>> No viruses found in this outgoing message
>>> Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5
>>> http://www.iolo.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----------
>>
>>
>>
>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>> 6:02 AM
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List: fire extinguisher |
On my last fire course I was told that Haylon is still available for
aviation use only, so maybe they are available through specialist
suppliers? We still use Haylon on the Embraer 145 for engine and APU
extinguishers.
On 04/09/2008, Carl Pattinson <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
> carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> I may be wrong Danni but I think Halon extinguishers are now no longer
> available in the UK anyway (aka BCF bromo chloro fluorethane) because they
> are considered harmful to the environment.
>
> Legislation prohibits the sale of halon products from December 31st 2002. -
> NO IM NOT WRONG !!! http://www.mfs-fire-extinguishers.co.uk/halon.htm
>
> The only other alternative suitable for aircraft use are dry powder. Water
> is unsuitable for aircraft use and too heavy and foam although acceptable is
> also too heavy. CO2 is probably the best substitute but again too heavy for
> aircraft use.
>
> Halon if you can get it is undoubtedly the best as it is effective against
> a wide range of fires and wont damage the aircraft structure, engine or
> wiring if used. I have seen all of the above used in real life and used
> properly the Halon variety is by far the best - note Halon is extremely
> toxic in confined spaces (you wouldnt want to use it in an enclosed
> cockpit).
>
> We have a Halon extinguisher 3kg but its getting on a bit (it had a twin
> but I accidentally set it off in the garage by mistake last week - but at
> least it proved the thing worked).
>
> Good luck in your search.
>
> Carl Pattinson
> G-LABS
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "danny shepherd" <
> danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>
> To: "matronics" <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 4:58 PM
> Subject: Europa-List: fire extinguisher
>
>
>> danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>
>>
>> Hi All,
>> Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in
>> there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking at the
>> usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should fit.
>>
>> Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________
>> No viruses found in this incoming message
>> Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5
>> http://www.iolo.com
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________
> No viruses found in this outgoing message
> Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5
> http://www.iolo.com
>
>
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? |
Raimo-
The article on your airplane is in this month's Sport Aviation. It is well done
and I really enjoyed reading it.
Jim Puglise, Punta Gorda, FL
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
>
> I have two trim swithes: one is in the stick (full speed)
> and other one is on the panel (adjustable speed).
> I use stick switch when landing (low air speed - faster trim speed)
> and panel switch during cruise (fast air speed - slower trim speed).
> I have a changeover switch to select which mode to use.
> If one switch would go bro