Europa-List Digest Archive

Thu 09/04/08


Total Messages Posted: 41



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 01:18 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (David Joyce)
     2. 02:56 AM - Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge (Richard Collings)
     3. 03:48 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (William Harrison)
     4. 06:21 AM - AW: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (UVTReith)
     5. 06:39 AM - refueling troubles (yannick LAURENS)
     6. 07:44 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
     7. 07:44 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
     8. 07:44 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
     9. 07:44 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
    10. 08:10 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Robert C Harrison)
    11. 08:59 AM - fire extinguisher (danny shepherd)
    12. 09:16 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk)
    13. 09:46 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Robert C Harrison)
    14. 09:49 AM - Re: fire extinguisher (Robert C Harrison)
    15. 10:19 AM - Re: fire extinguisher (Karl Heindl)
    16. 11:21 AM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Graham Singleton)
    17. 11:53 AM - CS10 rivet hole positions (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
    18. 12:15 PM - Re: fire extinguisher (david miller)
    19. 12:17 PM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Raimo Toivio)
    20. 12:23 PM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Karel Vranken)
    21. 12:31 PM - Re: fire extinguisher (Raimo Toivio)
    22. 12:41 PM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (Raimo Toivio)
    23. 12:41 PM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_fire_extinguisher? (Carl Pattinson)
    24. 12:50 PM - Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge (Raimo Toivio)
    25. 12:50 PM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_fire_extinguisher? (Carl Pattinson)
    26. 01:24 PM - Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge (JEFF ROBERTS)
    27. 01:28 PM - Re: Re: fire extinguisher (David Buckley)
    28. 01:28 PM - Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
    29. 01:35 PM - Re: fire extinguisher (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
    30. 01:39 PM - Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge (Karl Heindl)
    31. 01:39 PM - Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge (Karl Heindl)
    32. 02:26 PM - Re: CS10 rivet hole positions (Robert C Harrison)
    33. 02:37 PM - Re: Re: fire extinguisher (Brian Davies)
    34. 02:55 PM - AW: fire extinguisher (UVTReith)
    35. 03:20 PM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_Manifold_Pressure_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gauge? (Carl Pattinson)
    36. 03:34 PM - Re: Jos Okhuisen (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
    37. 03:37 PM - Fw: fire extinguisher (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
    38. 03:41 PM - Fw: Fire extinguishers (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
    39. 05:07 PM - Rough River (Troy Maynor)
    40. 10:22 PM - Re: fire extinguisher (Mike Parkin)
    41. 10:37 PM - Re: Re: fire extinguisher (Mike Parkin)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 01:18:38 AM PST US
    From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
    Subject: Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
    Rowland, An exit hole at the back of the stick just above CS01 has worked well for me. The wire is covered by a flexible boot designed to stop the pens & other things you will drop jamming the controls. As to trim on the stick, there is the thought that if you fly with other pilots and share the flying, then the co pilot will want access to the trim. For me having the switch with the indicator and a CB in some central position, reasonably close to the throttle hand, makes more sense. Regards, David, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rowland & Wilma Carson" <rowil@clara.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 5:36 PM Subject: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? > <rowil@clara.net> > > I'm looking at the bottom of the control stick as I assemble the various > parts and am wondering what is the best practice (in UK) for getting the > wiring from a switch or switches mounted on the top of the stick out of > the stick at or near the bottom. > > I had a troll through the list archives for various keywords but couldn't > find anything relevant, despite having a strong remembrance of the topic > being aired not so long ago. > > I want a PTT at last on the P1 stick, but it would be nice to have a > duplicate trim switch there too. (Yes, I'm thinking about shielding them > from accidental activation.) > > Obviously the electrical cable(s) should exit in a place that minimises > the chances of (a) fouling up the controls and (b) getting chafed and > causing shorts or open circuits. > > It seems perhaps safest to make a hole in the aft side of the stick (CS16) > just above CS01. That way a conventional grommet can easily be fitted, > something that might be harder to do if the hole was lower down and > passing through the thickness of CS16, CS16B, and CS01. > > What have other UK builders done that has met with approval from > inspectors and (if involved) LAA Engineering? > > regards > > Rowland > -- > > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:56:16 AM PST US
    From: "Richard Collings" <r.collings@onetel.net>
    Subject: Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge
    Carl Hi. Its not a dumb question at all, but one that you will have answered to when you have completed the PPL licence endorsement cause for complexes aircraft, i.e., those fitted with a variable pitch prop!You may already this because of the mono's retractable undercarriage, but a couple of hours spent under instruction in a complex single would be money well spent. Regards Richard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 10:00 PM Subject: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge > <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> > > I am just filling in the LAA form to change our propeller (from a fixed > pitch to a CS version - Woodcomp/ Smart Avionics controller). The engine > is > a Rotax 912 UL 80hp. > > The LAA form says that the installation of a manifold pressure gauge is > mandatory. Anyone know why? > > Its probably a dumb question but I dont understand the point of monitoring > manifold pressure on a normal engine. I always thought it was more > relevant > to turbocharged engines. > > Also where does one take the pressure takeoff on the engine - I would > guess > the balancing pipe between the carburettors - is there a mod required on > the > engine? > > Thanks for the explanation in advance. > > Carl Pattinson > G-LABS > > > _______________________________________ > No viruses found in this outgoing message > Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5 > http://www.iolo.com > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 6:02 AM


    Message 3


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    Time: 03:48:22 AM PST US
    From: William Harrison <willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
    Does anyone know a source of pre-made stick boots for the Europa? Alternatively, does anyone have a they can share? Cheers Willie Harrison G-BZNY Kit 401 > <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> > > Rowland, An exit hole at the back of the stick just above CS01 has > worked well for me. The wire is covered by a flexible boot designed > to stop the pens & other things you will drop jamming the controls. >


    Message 4


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    Time: 06:21:01 AM PST US
    From: "UVTReith" <uvtreith@t-online.de>
    Subject: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
    Hi Willie, Europa Aircraft UK can supply these. Leather gaiters in grey and beige. 45 GBP per set. They have these self locking tapes on for fixing it to the floor and seat. But you can use them only, when you can get them over the stick. When you have a big grip on they will not fit or you have to open the sewing of the top part a little. Best Regards, Bruno -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von William Harrison Gesendet: Donnerstag, 4. September 2008 10:51 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: Re: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? <willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk> Does anyone know a source of pre-made stick boots for the Europa? Alternatively, does anyone have a they can share? Cheers Willie Harrison G-BZNY Kit 401 > <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> > > Rowland, An exit hole at the back of the stick just above CS01 has > worked well for me. The wire is covered by a flexible boot designed > to stop the pens & other things you will drop jamming the controls. >


    Message 5


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    Time: 06:39:41 AM PST US
    From: "yannick LAURENS" <yck.laurens@wanadoo.fr>
    Subject: refueling troubles
    In fact, my air vent for the tank is just above the filling connection on the tank , and exit near the cap, and there is a low spot on the tube, so probably , some gasoline enter the tube from time to time . but I am surprise for the possibillity of air lock, during the refueling ?? thank's for your reply


    Message 6


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    Time: 07:44:06 AM PST US
    From: Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil@clara.net>
    Subject: Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
    At 2008-09-04 09:17 +0100 David Joyce wrote: >An exit hole at the back of the stick just above CS01 has worked >well for me. The wire is covered by a flexible boot designed to stop >the pens & other things you will drop jamming the controls. David - thanks, I have a set of Tim Ward's boots, but I'm not sure about keeping the wiring inside them as there is no guarantee that the wires won't chafe on the moving parts while out of sight in there. I think I'd prefer to take the wire down the outside of the boot, although that would be less aesthetic. However I suppose (thinking aloud here) the ideal solution would be an extra strip of leather sewn on to the outside (or even better inside) of the boot to form a channel down the boot between its (mobile) top edge and its (fixed) bottom edge. That would keep the wire under control and pretty safe from chafing as well as from snagging on one's high heels. >if you fly with other pilots and share the flying, then the co pilot >will want access to the trim. For me having the switch with the >indicator and a CB in some central position, reasonably close to the >throttle hand, makes more sense. I was thinking of a duplicate switch on the stick, leaving the central one in position, but I don't know if LAA Engineering has approved such an arrangement. If not, I wouldn't want to be the first to lock horns with them over FMEA! It's just that most of the aircraft I've flown with electric trim have a rocker switch on the yoke and I've found that so much more ergonomic and fast to use than reaching across to a separate switch or a mechanical trim wheel. However, I may have to settle for a single central switch just to keep life simple. Incidentally, I'm not planning to use a commercial stick grip as they are mostly fitted with much more complex switchery than what I want. I do believe that the grips I want are hiding inside some chucks of mahogany that I have lying around - I just have to let them out, as the sculptors say. But before I do that, I will need to decide how many switches they must accomodate and where the switch(es) should go ..... regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/ | 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>


    Message 7


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    Time: 07:44:06 AM PST US
    From: Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil@clara.net>
    Subject: Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
    At 2008-09-03 23:17 +0100 peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk wrote: >I wouldn't drill the stick to the size for a conventional gromit - >this would seriously weaken the stick Peter - I hadn't considered that a hole big enough for a grommet would compromise the strength of the stick - after all it's got to have 2 off 1/4" holes drilled in it near the bottom for the AN4-17A bolt that secures it to CS01. >the reason that the stick >diameter was increased when it went from steel to ali was that the ali >stick at the smaller diameter was not stong enough at higher G Now I'm really confused! My CS16 are steel, have 2 bends and are 1" OD. They came in an XS fuselage kit collected in September 2001. When did the sticks change to aluminium? I know the original Classic sticks were straight, but I don't know what diameter they were or what material they were made of. My paper manual (page 13-11 issue 1) still shows the straight sticks, but later PDFs show the cranked ones. This suggests that there been 3 different types of stick supplied in Europa kits over the years - straight Classic, small steel cranked, large aluminium cranked. Is that correct? >On HI, we have drilled holes at an angle to the stick (heading >downwards) at the front of the stick (just above the point where the >stick passes in to the tuffnel bush). the hole is bigger than the >screened wire that runs to the PTT (and comm box frequency change) - >I've put some heatshrink over the screened cable where it passes >through the stick (and a zip tie each side to make sure that the cable >stays in place) That sounds OK. If the grommet is eliminated I think you definitely need to ensure that the wire is not going to move relative to the metal and thus chafe. After deburring the hole (as far away from orthogonal to stick surface as possible so the wire has a minimal chicane to negotiate) I'm inclined to go for a tie-wrap around the stick below the exit, and some sort of bung or spacer to immobilise it inside and above the hole too. It would be interesting to know if there is any authoritative answer to how large a hole can safely be made in the stick - and how that answer changes for the (3?) different models of stick! I'm copying this reply back to the list as Peter's e-mail client has been set to reply to the "from" address (me) rather than the "reply-to" address (the list). regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/ | 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:44:06 AM PST US
    From: Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil@clara.net>
    Subject: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
    At 2008-09-03 23:09 +0100 Robert C Harrison wrote: >Find the place of smallest movement but not to weaken the control stick Bob - I think least movement is somewhere between the pitch-axis pivot bolt and the rod-end-bearing connecting to the pitch pushrod. It looks as though there is enough room inside CS01 to get the sort of wire I want to use past the AN5-23 pitch pivot bolt. CS01 is fairly beefy there, so I'd hope a radial hole would not cause significant weakness, but it would be nice to have an answer from someone who knows about the stress calculations for that part. That exit hole would be insde the leather boot and so I'd want to make the sort of anti-chafe provision for the wire that I dreamed up in my reply to David Joyce. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/ | 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>


    Message 9


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    Time: 07:44:06 AM PST US
    From: Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil@clara.net>
    Subject: Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
    At 2008-09-04 09:50 +0100 William Harrison wrote: >Does anyone know a source of pre-made stick boots for the Europa? Willie - Tim Ward, a regular poster on this list, sells nice leather ones made by a leatherworker in NZ, and supplies them worldwide. >Alternatively, does anyone have a they can share? Not sure how that would work .... Mine are not in service yet, but I'm planning to keep them fitted once they're on! regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/ | 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:10:22 AM PST US
    From: "Robert C Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
    Subject: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
    Hi! Willie I recall that a guy in New Zealand made quite a lot in leather but I have no details of them. I made a fiberglass box to encompass the whole mechanism at the bottom of both control sticks and they have a simple leather boot to the sticks and a draw string to tighten them on. Go to http://www.crix.org.uk and click on "Bob Harrison's Europa G-PTAG" then select Control Sticks. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Harrison Sent: 04 September 2008 09:51 Subject: Re: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? <willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk> Does anyone know a source of pre-made stick boots for the Europa? Alternatively, does anyone have a they can share? Cheers Willie Harrison G-BZNY Kit 401 > <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> > > Rowland, An exit hole at the back of the stick just above CS01 has > worked well for me. The wire is covered by a flexible boot designed > to stop the pens & other things you will drop jamming the controls. >


    Message 11


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    Time: 08:59:48 AM PST US
    From: danny shepherd <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>
    Subject: fire extinguisher
    Hi All, Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking at the usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should fit. Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight)


    Message 12


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    Time: 09:16:46 AM PST US
    From: "peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk" <peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
    Hi Roland You are correct in that there have been (at least) 3 designs of stick - As you say, the early ones were straight - The position of these was so far forwards that the PTT very nearly touches the map tray. When we bought HI, it had a stick with a single crank in and made from Ali - this was the larger diameter (ie it fitted into the CS-01 without a bush). The position was pretty good but still not great. The later ones, supplied in the XS kits are double cranked, smaller diameter (requiring a bush to allow it to fit to the CS-01) - this places the stick much better for those of us of a shorter stature. Peter ----Original Message---- From: rowil@clara.net Subj: Re: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? net> At 2008-09-03 23:17 +0100 peter.rees01@tiscali.co.uk wrote: >I wouldn't drill the stick to the size for a conventional gromit - >this would seriously weaken the stick Peter - I hadn't considered that a hole big enough for a grommet would compromise the strength of the stick - after all it's got to have 2 off 1/4" holes drilled in it near the bottom for the AN4-17A bolt that secures it to CS01. >the reason that the stick >diameter was increased when it went from steel to ali was that the ali >stick at the smaller diameter was not stong enough at higher G Now I'm really confused! My CS16 are steel, have 2 bends and are 1" OD. They came in an XS fuselage kit collected in September 2001. When did the sticks change to aluminium? I know the original Classic sticks were straight, but I don't know what diameter they were or what material they were made of. My paper manual (page 13-11 issue 1) still shows the straight sticks, but later PDFs show the cranked ones. This suggests that there been 3 different types of stick supplied in Europa kits over the years - straight Classic, small steel cranked, large aluminium cranked. Is that correct? >On HI, we have drilled holes at an angle to the stick (heading >downwards) at the front of the stick (just above the point where the >stick passes in to the tuffnel bush). the hole is bigger than the >screened wire that runs to the PTT (and comm box frequency change) - >I've put some heatshrink over the screened cable where it passes >through the stick (and a zip tie each side to make sure that the cable >stays in place) That sounds OK. If the grommet is eliminated I think you definitely need to ensure that the wire is not going to move relative to the metal and thus chafe. After deburring the hole (as far away from orthogonal to stick surface as possible so the wire has a minimal chicane to negotiate) I'm inclined to go for a tie-wrap around the stick below the exit, and some sort of bung or spacer to immobilise it inside and above the hole too. It would be interesting to know if there is any authoritative answer to how large a hole can safely be made in the stick - and how that answer changes for the (3?) different models of stick! I'm copying this reply back to the list as Peter's e-mail client has been set to reply to the "from" address (me) rather than the "reply-to" address (the list). regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/ | 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net> How safe is your email? - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/securemail __________________________________________________________


    Message 13


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    Time: 09:46:52 AM PST US
    From: "Robert C Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
    Subject: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
    Hi! Rowland Just for the record I have the whole works in the stick top by Mac, that is trim flaps and PTT. Andy Draper on Test(Before he went to the PFA) was concerned about the use of charts activating the buttons since they are very sensitive. I had a picture of a flip top cover I made to get over this problem on the http://www.crix.org.uk site but it seems to have gone missing, John Cliff may have been shrinking the site a little and decided to remove it . I also have all the switches duplicated on the panel but the relays necessary are a bit mind blowing! I hope there is never an issue needing them sorted whilst I have the 'plane ! regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rowland & Wilma Carson Sent: 04 September 2008 15:42 Subject: Re: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? <rowil@clara.net> At 2008-09-04 09:17 +0100 David Joyce wrote: >An exit hole at the back of the stick just above CS01 has worked >well for me. The wire is covered by a flexible boot designed to stop >the pens & other things you will drop jamming the controls. David - thanks, I have a set of Tim Ward's boots, but I'm not sure about keeping the wiring inside them as there is no guarantee that the wires won't chafe on the moving parts while out of sight in there. I think I'd prefer to take the wire down the outside of the boot, although that would be less aesthetic. However I suppose (thinking aloud here) the ideal solution would be an extra strip of leather sewn on to the outside (or even better inside) of the boot to form a channel down the boot between its (mobile) top edge and its (fixed) bottom edge. That would keep the wire under control and pretty safe from chafing as well as from snagging on one's high heels. >if you fly with other pilots and share the flying, then the co pilot >will want access to the trim. For me having the switch with the >indicator and a CB in some central position, reasonably close to the >throttle hand, makes more sense. I was thinking of a duplicate switch on the stick, leaving the central one in position, but I don't know if LAA Engineering has approved such an arrangement. If not, I wouldn't want to be the first to lock horns with them over FMEA! It's just that most of the aircraft I've flown with electric trim have a rocker switch on the yoke and I've found that so much more ergonomic and fast to use than reaching across to a separate switch or a mechanical trim wheel. However, I may have to settle for a single central switch just to keep life simple. Incidentally, I'm not planning to use a commercial stick grip as they are mostly fitted with much more complex switchery than what I want. I do believe that the grips I want are hiding inside some chucks of mahogany that I have lying around - I just have to let them out, as the sculptors say. But before I do that, I will need to decide how many switches they must accomodate and where the switch(es) should go ..... regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/ | 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>


    Message 14


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    Time: 09:49:54 AM PST US
    From: "Robert C Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
    Subject: fire extinguisher
    Hi! Danny I have a CFC ?(Believe it was that can't say positively since the aircraft is locked away in the trailor , it's not water and not powder anyway!) behind the passenger seat head rest and part of the passenger drill is to point out where it is .......it gives them lots of confidence ! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of danny shepherd Sent: 04 September 2008 16:58 Subject: Europa-List: fire extinguisher <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> Hi All, Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking at the usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should fit. Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight)


    Message 15


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    Time: 10:19:13 AM PST US
    From: Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com>
    Subject: fire extinguisher
    Danny=2C I have a halon gas extiguisher. as far as i know it is only available from acs. position is same as described by bob. Karl<html><div></div>> Date: Thu=2C 4 Sep 2008 16:58:03 +0100> From: danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> To: europa-list@matronics.com> Subject: Europa- d <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>> > Hi All=2C> Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in > there plane=2C and where about did they f it it. I have been looking at the > usual suppliers=2C and I'm a bit confus ed as to which one I should fit.> > Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to t ============> > >


    Message 16


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    Time: 11:21:30 AM PST US
    From: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
    Robert C Harrison wrote: > > Hi! Rowland > Just for the record I have the whole works in the stick top by Mac, > that is trim flaps and PTT. Andy Draper on Test(Before he went to the > PFA) was concerned about the use of charts activating the buttons since > they are very sensitive. I had a picture of a flip top cover I made to > get over this problem on the http://www.crix.org.uk site but it seems to > have gone missing, I know of one case where the Mac switch probably got nudged and caused the aircraft to be grossly out of trim (nose up) the aircraft spun in from about 100 feet Graham


    Message 17


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    Time: 11:53:42 AM PST US
    From: Rowland & Wilma Carson <rowil@clara.net>
    Subject: CS10 rivet hole positions
    I have (rather foolishly it seems) bonded the CS10C caps into the ends of the CS10 pitch torque tube without measuring the depth of the CS10C flanges. Now that I come to add the rivets, nowhere on the diagrams or text can I find reference to how far fom the end of CS10 the rivet holes should be drilled. I have a mental picture of the CS10C flange, but I don't feel comfortable drilling holes based on that! There's not a lot of leeway between (a) having the hole too close to the front face of CS10C so the rivet will be obstructed by it and won't set properly and (b) having it too far away and breaking out of the edge of the flange. Anyone got a CS01C not yet inserted that they can measure and let me have the depth of the flange, please? regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/ | 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>


    Message 18


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    Time: 12:15:55 PM PST US
    From: david miller <loboloda@execulink.com>
    Subject: Re: fire extinguisher
    Hi Danny, Same as Karl, I have a Halon extinguisher, had to bring it in from Oshkosh as they don't seem to be allowed to be sold in Canada. Mounted on the centre consul, low down, just ahead of the seat and angled forward. I can reach it from there, and it is not in the way of feet or legs. Dave On 4-Sep-08, at 1:18 PM, Karl Heindl wrote: > Danny, > > I have a halon gas extiguisher. as far as i know it is only > available from acs. position is same as described by bob. > Karl > > <html><div></div> > > > Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2008 16:58:03 +0100 > > From: danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk > > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Europa-List: fire extinguisher > > > <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> > > > > Hi All, > > Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in > > there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking > at the > > usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should > fit. > > > > Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight) > > > > ======== > > > > > > > >


    Message 19


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    Time: 12:17:07 PM PST US
    From: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
    Subject: Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
    I have two trim swithes: one is in the stick (full speed) and other one is on the panel (adjustable speed). I use stick switch when landing (low air speed - faster trim speed) and panel switch during cruise (fast air speed - slower trim speed). I have a changeover switch to select which mode to use. If one switch would go broken, I have still other one left over to trim. Trim CB is near panel switch just in case to stop possible autotrim. Raimo OH-XT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Singleton" <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:22 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? > > Robert C Harrison wrote: > > > > Hi! Rowland > > Just for the record I have the whole works in the stick top by Mac, > > that is trim flaps and PTT. Andy Draper on Test(Before he went to the > > PFA) was concerned about the use of charts activating the buttons since > > they are very sensitive. I had a picture of a flip top cover I made to > > get over this problem on the http://www.crix.org.uk site but it seems to > > have gone missing, > I know of one case where the Mac switch probably got nudged and caused > the aircraft to be grossly out of trim (nose up) the aircraft spun in > from about 100 feet > Graham > > > > >


    Message 20


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    Time: 12:23:15 PM PST US
    From: Karel Vranken <karelvranken@hotmail.com>
    Subject: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
    Rowland=2C I have both trim controls=2C one on the stick and one on the panel with the matronics control system. This works first used first served. Best regards=2C Karel vranken. > From: davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> To: europa-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?> Date: Thu=2C 4 Sep vidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>> > Rowland=2C An exit hole at the back of the stic k just above CS01 has worked > well for me. The wire is covered by a flexib le boot designed to stop the > pens & other things you will drop jamming th e controls.> As to trim on the stick=2C there is the thought that if you fl y with > other pilots and share the flying=2C then the co pilot will want a ccess to the > trim. For me having the switch with the indicator and a CB i n some central > position=2C reasonably close to the throttle hand=2C makes more sense.> Regards=2C David=2C G-XSDJ> ----- Original Message ----- > Fr om: "Rowland & Wilma Carson" <rowil@clara.net>> To: "Europa e-mail list" <e uropa-list@matronics.com>> Sent: Wednesday=2C September 03=2C 2008 5:36 PM> Subject: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?> > > > --> Eur opa-List message posted by: Rowland & Wilma Carson > > <rowil@clara.net>> > > > I'm looking at the bottom of the control stick as I assemble the variou s > > parts and am wondering what is the best practice (in UK) for getting the > > wiring from a switch or switches mounted on the top of the stick ou t of > > the stick at or near the bottom.> >> > I had a troll through the l ist archives for various keywords but couldn't > > find anything relevant =2C despite having a strong remembrance of the topic > > being aired not so long ago.> >> > I want a PTT at last on the P1 stick=2C but it would be ni ce to have a > > duplicate trim switch there too. (Yes=2C I'm thinking abou t shielding them > > from accidental activation.)> >> > Obviously the elect rical cable(s) should exit in a place that minimises > > the chances of (a) fouling up the controls and (b) getting chafed and > > causing shorts or o pen circuits.> >> > It seems perhaps safest to make a hole in the aft side of the stick (CS16) > > just above CS01. That way a conventional grommet ca n easily be fitted=2C > > something that might be harder to do if the hole was lower down and > > passing through the thickness of CS16=2C CS16B=2C an d CS01.> >> > What have other UK builders done that has met with approval f rom > > inspectors and (if involved) LAA Engineering?> >> > regards> >> > R owland> > -- > > | Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/av iation/> > | 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net ============> > >


    Message 21


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    Time: 12:31:22 PM PST US
    From: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
    Subject: Re: fire extinguisher
    Danny, when airborne, Halon is your one and ONLY possibility in the case of fire. Normal "on the ground use" is illegal but aviation use is still legal. CO2 and powder types will kill you ( + powder spoils your panel etc!!!). Water-fox-type -extinguishers are also not very practical. There was a great article of that question this year in the magazine Sport Pilot or Sport Aviation (USA EAA). Maybe some American could find that article and let us know the main facts. If not I wll do it. I fitted my (little) bottle between centre console and P2 backseat. Always visible and easy to find and use. Raimo from Finland OH-XRT ----- Original Message ----- From: "danny shepherd" <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 6:58 PM Subject: Europa-List: fire extinguisher > > Hi All, > Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in > there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking at the > usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should fit. > > Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight) > > > > >


    Message 22


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    Time: 12:41:10 PM PST US
    From: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
    Subject: Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
    Tim Ward from NZ makes great boots. I am very proud of mine. All the colours available. Raimo from Finland OH-XRT ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Harrison" <willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 11:50 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? > > > Does anyone know a source of pre-made stick boots for the Europa? > > Alternatively, does anyone have a they can share? > > Cheers > > Willie Harrison > G-BZNY Kit 401 > > > <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> > > > > Rowland, An exit hole at the back of the stick just above CS01 has > > worked well for me. The wire is covered by a flexible boot designed > > to stop the pens & other things you will drop jamming the controls. > > > > > > >


    Message 23


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    Time: 12:41:43 PM PST US
    From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_fire_extinguisher?
    X-mailer: iAVMailScanner 1.5.4.5 I may be wrong Danni but I think Halon extinguishers are now no longer available in the UK anyway (aka BCF bromo chloro fluorethane) because they are considered harmful to the environment. Legislation prohibits the sale of halon products from December 31st 2002. - NO IM NOT WRONG !!! http://www.mfs-fire-extinguishers.co.uk/halon.htm The only other alternative suitable for aircraft use are dry powder. Water is unsuitable for aircraft use and too heavy and foam although acceptable is also too heavy. CO2 is probably the best substitute but again too heavy for aircraft use. Halon if you can get it is undoubtedly the best as it is effective against a wide range of fires and wont damage the aircraft structure, engine or wiring if used. I have seen all of the above used in real life and used properly the Halon variety is by far the best - note Halon is extremely toxic in confined spaces (you wouldnt want to use it in an enclosed cockpit). We have a Halon extinguisher 3kg but its getting on a bit (it had a twin but I accidentally set it off in the garage by mistake last week - but at least it proved the thing worked). Good luck in your search. Carl Pattinson G-LABS ----- Original Message ----- From: "danny shepherd" <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 4:58 PM Subject: Europa-List: fire extinguisher > <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> > > Hi All, > Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in > there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking at the > usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should fit. > > Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight) > > > _______________________________________ > No viruses found in this incoming message > Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5 > http://www.iolo.com > _______________________________________ No viruses found in this outgoing message Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5 http://www.iolo.com


    Message 24


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    Time: 12:50:07 PM PST US
    From: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
    Subject: Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge
    I am looking for a very small MAP gauge - digital or analogical. Does anybody have a tip? Ideal would be a CS prop controller WITH integrated gauge but there obviously does not exist any. Raimo from Finland OH-XRT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Collings" <r.collings@onetel.net> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:54 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge > > Carl Hi. Its not a dumb question at all, but one that you will have answered > to when you have completed the PPL licence endorsement cause for complexes > aircraft, i.e., those fitted with a variable pitch prop!You may already this > because of the mono's retractable undercarriage, but a couple of hours spent > under instruction in a complex single would be money well spent. > Regards Richard > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 10:00 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge > > > > <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> > > > > I am just filling in the LAA form to change our propeller (from a fixed > > pitch to a CS version - Woodcomp/ Smart Avionics controller). The engine > > is > > a Rotax 912 UL 80hp. > > > > The LAA form says that the installation of a manifold pressure gauge is > > mandatory. Anyone know why? > > > > Its probably a dumb question but I dont understand the point of monitoring > > manifold pressure on a normal engine. I always thought it was more > > relevant > > to turbocharged engines. > > > > Also where does one take the pressure takeoff on the engine - I would > > guess > > the balancing pipe between the carburettors - is there a mod required on > > the > > engine? > > > > Thanks for the explanation in advance. > > > > Carl Pattinson > > G-LABS > > > > > > > > _______________________________________ > > No viruses found in this outgoing message > > Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5 > > http://www.iolo.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > 6:02 AM > > > > > >


    Message 25


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    Time: 12:50:20 PM PST US
    From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_fire_extinguisher?
    X-mailer: iAVMailScanner 1.5.4.5 Exceptions for Usage of Halon Fire Extinguishers There are only three main exceptions for Halon fire extinguisher usage; in aircraft, military use including vehicles and fuel installations, and in the Channel Tunnel. So, don't worry if you spot a green Halon fire extinguisher on an airplane - it's allowed to be there! It appears I am wrong regarding the use of Halon extinguishers. Apparently Aircraft use is exempt from the ruling. The question is where to get them from. I note they are widely available in the USA but suspect importing them into the UK would present a problem. ----- Original Message ----- From: "danny shepherd" <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 4:58 PM Subject: Europa-List: fire extinguisher > <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> > > Hi All, > Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in > there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking at the > usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should fit. > > Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight) > > > _______________________________________ > No viruses found in this incoming message > Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5 > http://www.iolo.com > _______________________________________ No viruses found in this outgoing message Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5 http://www.iolo.com


    Message 26


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    Time: 01:24:03 PM PST US
    From: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff@rmmm.net>
    Subject: Re: Manifold Pressure Gauge
    Raimo, I don't know about the gauge but I couldn't help noticing your beautiful Europa in this months EAA Sport Aviation. Congratulations on a great looking plane and thanks for some fine recognition of our plane. Jeff Roberts, USA A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 150 hours and climbing slowly. On Sep 4, 2008, at 3:05 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote: > > I am looking for a very small MAP gauge - digital or analogical. > Does anybody have a tip? > > Ideal would be a CS prop controller WITH integrated gauge > but there obviously does not exist any. > > Raimo from Finland > OH-XRT > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Collings" <r.collings@onetel.net> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:54 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge > > >> <r.collings@onetel.net> >> >> Carl Hi. Its not a dumb question at all, but one that you will have >> answered >> to when you have completed the PPL licence endorsement cause for >> complexes >> aircraft, i.e., those fitted with a variable pitch prop!You may >> already this >> because of the mono's retractable undercarriage, but a couple of >> hours spent >> under instruction in a complex single would be money well spent. >> Regards Richard >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> >> To: <europa-list@matronics.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 10:00 PM >> Subject: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge >> >> >>> <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> >>> >>> I am just filling in the LAA form to change our propeller (from a >>> fixed >>> pitch to a CS version - Woodcomp/ Smart Avionics controller). The >>> engine >>> is >>> a Rotax 912 UL 80hp. >>> >>> The LAA form says that the installation of a manifold pressure gauge >>> is >>> mandatory. Anyone know why? >>> >>> Its probably a dumb question but I dont understand the point of >>> monitoring >>> manifold pressure on a normal engine. I always thought it was more >>> relevant >>> to turbocharged engines. >>> >>> Also where does one take the pressure takeoff on the engine - I would >>> guess >>> the balancing pipe between the carburettors - is there a mod >>> required on >>> the >>> engine? >>> >>> Thanks for the explanation in advance. >>> >>> Carl Pattinson >>> G-LABS >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________ >>> No viruses found in this outgoing message >>> Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5 >>> http://www.iolo.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> ---------- >> >> >> >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> 6:02 AM >> >> >> >> >> >> > >


    Message 27


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    Time: 01:28:01 PM PST US
    From: "David Buckley" <wooburnaviation@googlemail.com>
    Subject: Re: Europa-List: fire extinguisher
    On my last fire course I was told that Haylon is still available for aviation use only, so maybe they are available through specialist suppliers? We still use Haylon on the Embraer 145 for engine and APU extinguishers. On 04/09/2008, Carl Pattinson <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: > > carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> > > I may be wrong Danni but I think Halon extinguishers are now no longer > available in the UK anyway (aka BCF bromo chloro fluorethane) because they > are considered harmful to the environment. > > Legislation prohibits the sale of halon products from December 31st 2002. - > NO IM NOT WRONG !!! http://www.mfs-fire-extinguishers.co.uk/halon.htm > > The only other alternative suitable for aircraft use are dry powder. Water > is unsuitable for aircraft use and too heavy and foam although acceptable is > also too heavy. CO2 is probably the best substitute but again too heavy for > aircraft use. > > Halon if you can get it is undoubtedly the best as it is effective against > a wide range of fires and wont damage the aircraft structure, engine or > wiring if used. I have seen all of the above used in real life and used > properly the Halon variety is by far the best - note Halon is extremely > toxic in confined spaces (you wouldnt want to use it in an enclosed > cockpit). > > We have a Halon extinguisher 3kg but its getting on a bit (it had a twin > but I accidentally set it off in the garage by mistake last week - but at > least it proved the thing worked). > > Good luck in your search. > > Carl Pattinson > G-LABS > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "danny shepherd" < > danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> > To: "matronics" <europa-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 4:58 PM > Subject: Europa-List: fire extinguisher > > >> danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> >> >> Hi All, >> Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in >> there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking at the >> usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should fit. >> >> Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________ >> No viruses found in this incoming message >> Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5 >> http://www.iolo.com >> >> > > _______________________________________ > No viruses found in this outgoing message > Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5 > http://www.iolo.com > >


    Message 28


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    Time: 01:28:11 PM PST US
    From: jimpuglise@comcast.net
    Subject: Re: wiring exit from stick - uk practice?
    Raimo- The article on your airplane is in this month's Sport Aviation. It is well done and I really enjoyed reading it. Jim Puglise, Punta Gorda, FL -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> > > I have two trim swithes: one is in the stick (full speed) > and other one is on the panel (adjustable speed). > I use stick switch when landing (low air speed - faster trim speed) > and panel switch during cruise (fast air speed - slower trim speed). > I have a changeover switch to select which mode to use. > If one switch would go broken, I have still other one left over to trim. > Trim CB is near panel switch just in case to stop possible autotrim. > > Raimo > OH-XT > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Graham Singleton" > To: > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:22 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? > > > > > > > Robert C Harrison wrote: > > > > > > > Hi! Rowland > > > Just for the record I have the whole works in the stick top by Mac, > > > that is trim flaps and PTT. Andy Draper on Test(Before he went to the > > > PFA) was concerned about the use of charts activating the buttons since > > > they are very sensitive. I had a picture of a flip top cover I made to > > > get over this problem on the http://www.crix.org.uk site but it seems to > > > have gone missing, > > I know of one case where the Mac switch probably got nudged and caused > > the aircraft to be grossly out of trim (nose up) the aircraft spun in > > from about 100 feet > > Graham > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <html><body> <DIV>Raimo-</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>The article on your airplane is in this month's Sport Aviation.&nbsp; It is well done and I really enjoyed reading it.</DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <DIV>Jim Puglise, Punta Gorda, FL </DIV> <DIV>&nbsp;</DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 2px solid">-------------- Original message -------------- <BR>From: "Raimo Toivio" &lt;raimo.toivio@rwm.fi&gt; <BR><BR>&gt; --&gt; Europa-List message posted by: "Raimo Toivio" <RAIMO.TOIVIO@RWM.FI><BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; I have two trim swithes: one is in the stick (full speed) <BR>&gt; and other one is on the panel (adjustable speed). <BR>&gt; I use stick switch when landing (low air speed - faster trim speed) <BR>&gt; and panel switch during cruise (fast air speed - slower trim speed). <BR>&gt; I have a changeover switch to select which mode to use. <BR>&gt; If one switch would go broken, I have still other one left over to trim. <BR>&gt; Trim CB is near panel switch just in case to stop possible autotrim. <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; Raimo <BR>&gt; OH-XT <BR>&gt; ----- Original Message ----- <BR>&gt; From: "Graham Singleton" <GRAHAMSINGLETON@BTINTERNET.COM><BR>&gt; To: <EUROPA-LIST@MATRONICS.COM><BR>&gt; Sent: Th ursday , September 04, 2008 9:22 PM <BR>&gt; Subject: Re: Europa-List: wiring exit from stick - uk practice? <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; --&gt; Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <BR>&gt; <GRAHAMSINGLETON@BTINTERNET.COM><BR>&gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; Robert C Harrison wrote: <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; --&gt; Europa-List message posted by: "Robert C Harrison" <BR>&gt; <PTAG.DEV@TISCALI.CO.UK><BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Hi! Rowland <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; Just for the record I have the whole works in the stick top by Mac, <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; that is trim flaps and PTT. Andy Draper on Test(Before he went to the <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; PFA) was concerned about the use of charts activating the buttons since <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; they are very sensitive. I had a picture of a flip top cover I made to <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; get over this problem on the http://www.crix.org.uk site but it seems to <BR>&gt; &gt; &gt; have gone missing, <BR>&gt; &gt; I know of one case where the Mac switch probab ly got <pre><b><font size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier"> </b></font></pre></body></html>


    Message 29


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    Time: 01:35:04 PM PST US
    From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: fire extinguisher
    Ditto mine: Halon and behind-the-passenger-'headrest' mounting position, which is out of the way, within easy reach and doesn't become a projectile in a frontal crash. BTW, it takes a 10Kg pull to release the 1Kg bottle. So any deceleration of -10g in the direction of release will see the extinguisher becoming a free agent. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert C Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 4:49 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: fire extinguisher > > <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> > > Hi! Danny > I have a CFC ?(Believe it was that can't say positively since the > aircraft is locked away in the trailor , it's not water and not powder > anyway!) behind the passenger seat head rest and part of the passenger > drill is to point out where it is .......it gives them lots of > confidence ! > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of danny > shepherd > Sent: 04 September 2008 16:58 > To: matronics > Subject: Europa-List: fire extinguisher > > <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> > > Hi All, > Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in > > there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking at the > > usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should fit. > > Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight) > > >


    Message 30


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    Time: 01:39:05 PM PST US
    From: Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com>
    Subject: Manifold Pressure Gauge
    Raimo=2C The CS1 controller from Smart Avionics=2C displays the m. pressure=2C if yo u have the optional pressure switch . I believe it is 50 punds. Karl<html><div></div>> From: raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> To: europa-list@ma tronics.com> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge> Date: Thu Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>> > I am looking for a very small MAP gauge - digital or analogical.> Does anybody have a tip?> > Ideal would be a CS pro p controller WITH integrated gauge> but there obviously does not exist any. > > Raimo from Finland> OH-XRT> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rich ard Collings" <r.collings@onetel.net>> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>> Sen t: Thursday=2C September 04=2C 2008 12:54 PM> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Man lings" <r.collings@onetel.net>> > > > Carl Hi. Its not a dumb question at a ll=2C but one that you will have answered > > to when you have completed th e PPL licence endorsement cause for complexes > > aircraft=2C i.e.=2C those fitted with a variable pitch prop!You may already this > > because of the mono's retractable undercarriage=2C but a couple of hours spent > > under i nstruction in a complex single would be money well spent.> > Regards Richar d> > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.f reeserve.co.uk>> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com>> > Sent: Wednesday=2C Se ptember 03=2C 2008 10:00 PM> > Subject: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gaug arl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>> > >> > > I am just filling in the LAA form to change our propeller (from a fixed> > > pitch to a CS version - Woodcomp/ S mart Avionics controller). The engine > > > is> > > a Rotax 912 UL 80hp.> > >> > > The LAA form says that the installation of a manifold pressure gaug e is> > > mandatory. Anyone know why?> > >> > > Its probably a dumb questio n but I dont understand the point of monitoring> > > manifold pressure on a normal engine. I always thought it was more > > > relevant> > > to turboch arged engines.> > >> > > Also where does one take the pressure takeoff on t he engine - I would > > > guess> > > the balancing pipe between the carbure ttors - is there a mod required on > > > the> > > engine?> > >> > > Thanks for the explanation in advance.> > >> > > Carl Pattinson> > > G-LABS> > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________> > > No viruses found in this outgoing message> > > Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5> > > http: //www.iolo.com> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > ------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------> > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com> > 6:02 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > =======> > >


    Message 31


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    Time: 01:39:32 PM PST US
    From: Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com>
    Subject: Manifold Pressure Gauge
    Raimo=2C I meant POUNDS The CS1 controller from Smart Avionics=2C displays the m. pressure=2C if yo u have the optional pressure switch . I believe it is 50 punds. Karl<html><div></div>> From: raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> To: europa-list@ma tronics.com> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge> Date: Thu Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>> > I am looking for a very small MAP gauge - digital or analogical.> Does anybody have a tip?> > Ideal would be a CS pro p controller WITH integrated gauge> but there obviously does not exist any. > > Raimo from Finland> OH-XRT> ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rich ard Collings" <r.collings@onetel.net>> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>> Sen t: Thursday=2C September 04=2C 2008 12:54 PM> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Man lings" <r.collings@onetel.net>> > > > Carl Hi. Its not a dumb question at a ll=2C but one that you will have answered > > to when you have completed th e PPL licence endorsement cause for complexes > > aircraft=2C i.e.=2C those fitted with a variable pitch prop!You may already this > > because of the mono's retractable undercarriage=2C but a couple of hours spent > > under i nstruction in a complex single would be money well spent.> > Regards Richar d> > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.f reeserve.co.uk>> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com>> > Sent: Wednesday=2C Se ptember 03=2C 2008 10:00 PM> > Subject: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gaug arl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>> > >> > > I am just filling in the LAA form to change our propeller (from a fixed> > > pitch to a CS version - Woodcomp/ S mart Avionics controller). The engine > > > is> > > a Rotax 912 UL 80hp.> > >> > > The LAA form says that the installation of a manifold pressure gaug e is> > > mandatory. Anyone know why?> > >> > > Its probably a dumb questio n but I dont understand the point of monitoring> > > manifold pressure on a normal engine. I always thought it was more > > > relevant> > > to turboch arged engines.> > >> > > Also where does one take the pressure takeoff on t he engine - I would > > > guess> > > the balancing pipe between the carbure ttors - is there a mod required on > > > the> > > engine?> > >> > > Thanks for the explanation in advance.> > >> > > Carl Pattinson> > > G-LABS> > >> > >> > >> > > _______________________________________> > > No viruses found in this outgoing message> > > Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5> > > http: //www.iolo.com> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > ------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------> > > > > > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com> > 6:02 AM> > > > > > > > > > > > > > =======> > >


    Message 32


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    Time: 02:26:12 PM PST US
    From: "Robert C Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
    Subject: CS10 rivet hole positions
    Hi! Rowland Can't help with your request for dimensions but I'm concerned that you have the modified end caps. I recall that there was a mod involved since the centre boss was fatiguing somehow. Please check it out. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rowland & Wilma Carson Sent: 04 September 2008 19:22 Subject: Europa-List: CS10 rivet hole positions <rowil@clara.net> I have (rather foolishly it seems) bonded the CS10C caps into the ends of the CS10 pitch torque tube without measuring the depth of the CS10C flanges. Now that I come to add the rivets, nowhere on the diagrams or text can I find reference to how far fom the end of CS10 the rivet holes should be drilled. I have a mental picture of the CS10C flange, but I don't feel comfortable drilling holes based on that! There's not a lot of leeway between (a) having the hole too close to the front face of CS10C so the rivet will be obstructed by it and won't set properly and (b) having it too far away and breaking out of the edge of the flange. Anyone got a CS01C not yet inserted that they can measure and let me have the depth of the flange, please? regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/ | 1100 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>


    Message 33


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    Time: 02:37:57 PM PST US
    From: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Europa-List: fire extinguisher
    BCF fire extinguishers are still available in the UK from LAS (Light Aero) in 1Kg and 0.5Kg sizes. Brian Davies _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Buckley Sent: 04 September 2008 21:28 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: fire extinguisher On my last fire course I was told that Haylon is still available for aviation use only, so maybe they are available through specialist suppliers? We still use Haylon on the Embraer 145 for engine and APU extinguishers. On 04/09/2008, Carl Pattinson <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> I may be wrong Danni but I think Halon extinguishers are now no longer available in the UK anyway (aka BCF bromo chloro fluorethane) because they are considered harmful to the environment. Legislation prohibits the sale of halon products from December 31st 2002. - NO IM NOT WRONG !!! http://www.mfs-fire-extinguishers.co.uk/halon.htm The only other alternative suitable for aircraft use are dry powder. Water is unsuitable for aircraft use and too heavy and foam although acceptable is also too heavy. CO2 is probably the best substitute but again too heavy for aircraft use. Halon if you can get it is undoubtedly the best as it is effective against a wide range of fires and wont damage the aircraft structure, engine or wiring if used. I have seen all of the above used in real life and used properly the Halon variety is by far the best - note Halon is extremely toxic in confined spaces (you wouldnt want to use it in an enclosed cockpit). We have a Halon extinguisher 3kg but its getting on a bit (it had a twin but I accidentally set it off in the garage by mistake last week - but at least it proved the thing worked). Good luck in your search. Carl Pattinson G-LABS ----- Original Message ----- From: "danny shepherd" <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 4:58 PM Subject: Europa-List: fire extinguisher <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> Hi All, Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking at the usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should fit. Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight) _______________________________________ No viruses found in this incoming message Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5 <http://1.5.4.5/> http://www.iolo.com <http://www.iolo.com/> _______________________________________ No viruses found in this outgoing message Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5 <http://1.5.4.5/> http://www.iolo.com <http://www.iolo.com/> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 16:13


    Message 34


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    Time: 02:55:39 PM PST US
    From: "UVTReith" <uvtreith@t-online.de>
    Subject: fire extinguisher
    Hi all, Here in Germany is a racing parts supplier www.isa-racing.de <http://www.isa-racing.de/> . They have fire extinguisher systems with remote operation systems, so that you can feed one line into the engine part and one for the cockpit. Unfortunately I can only open the German catalogue, but I guess it's an English company. www.isa-racing.com <http://www.isa-racing.com/> needs a password. They do have also a lot of other nice items like aluminium fittings, fuel hoses etc. It's worth to check. Best Regards, Bruno -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Duncan & Ami McFadyean Gesendet: Freitag, 1. Januar 1988 00:44 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: Re: Europa-List: fire extinguisher <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> Ditto mine: Halon and behind-the-passenger-'headrest' mounting position, which is out of the way, within easy reach and doesn't become a projectile in a frontal crash. BTW, it takes a 10Kg pull to release the 1Kg bottle. So any deceleration of -10g in the direction of release will see the extinguisher becoming a free agent. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert C Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 4:49 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: fire extinguisher > > <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> > > Hi! Danny > I have a CFC ?(Believe it was that can't say positively since the > aircraft is locked away in the trailor , it's not water and not powder > anyway!) behind the passenger seat head rest and part of the passenger > drill is to point out where it is .......it gives them lots of > confidence ! > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of danny > shepherd > Sent: 04 September 2008 16:58 > To: matronics > Subject: Europa-List: fire extinguisher > > <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> > > Hi All, > Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in > > there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking at the > > usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should fit. > > Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight) > > > > > > > > >


    Message 35


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    Time: 03:20:01 PM PST US
    From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_Manifold_Pressure_?=
    =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gauge? X-mailer: iAVMailScanner 1.5.4.5 Ramio, The Smart Avionics Controller does have an integrated manifold pressure readout. So no need to look any further. Carl Pattinson G-LABS ----- Original Message ----- From: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 9:05 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge > > I am looking for a very small MAP gauge - digital or analogical. > Does anybody have a tip? > > Ideal would be a CS prop controller WITH integrated gauge > but there obviously does not exist any. > > Raimo from Finland > OH-XRT > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Collings" <r.collings@onetel.net> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 12:54 PM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge > > >> <r.collings@onetel.net> >> >> Carl Hi. Its not a dumb question at all, but one that you will have >> answered >> to when you have completed the PPL licence endorsement cause for >> complexes >> aircraft, i.e., those fitted with a variable pitch prop!You may already >> this >> because of the mono's retractable undercarriage, but a couple of hours >> spent >> under instruction in a complex single would be money well spent. >> Regards Richard >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> >> To: <europa-list@matronics.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 10:00 PM >> Subject: Europa-List: Manifold Pressure Gauge >> >> >> > <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> >> > >> > I am just filling in the LAA form to change our propeller (from a fixed >> > pitch to a CS version - Woodcomp/ Smart Avionics controller). The >> > engine >> > is >> > a Rotax 912 UL 80hp. >> > >> > The LAA form says that the installation of a manifold pressure gauge is >> > mandatory. Anyone know why? >> > >> > Its probably a dumb question but I dont understand the point of >> > monitoring >> > manifold pressure on a normal engine. I always thought it was more >> > relevant >> > to turbocharged engines. >> > >> > Also where does one take the pressure takeoff on the engine - I would >> > guess >> > the balancing pipe between the carburettors - is there a mod required >> > on >> > the >> > engine? >> > >> > Thanks for the explanation in advance. >> > >> > Carl Pattinson >> > G-LABS >> > >> > >> > >> > _______________________________________ >> > No viruses found in this outgoing message >> > Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5 >> > http://www.iolo.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com >> 6:02 AM >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > _______________________________________ > No viruses found in this incoming message > Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5 > http://www.iolo.com > _______________________________________ No viruses found in this outgoing message Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.4.5 http://www.iolo.com


    Message 36


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    Time: 03:34:33 PM PST US
    From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Jos Okhuisen
    A number of subjects there. Firstly the non-return valve. Actually, the PFA questioned why I had NOT got one fitted in the case of the fuel injection system that I had fitted previously (which circulated fuel back to the tank at a similar rate to the 914 system). As a poor-man's alternative, I now have the 912 return-line restrictor located just behind the firewall (because there is a joint in the return line there and because it creates more unrestricted vapour headspace in the top of the return line); so, if the return line is severed at a point forward of the firewall, the restrictor provides at least some restriction to backflow from the tank; LAA know about this and approved the installation. About fire suppression systems: a suggestion to the PFA some years ago to include a port in the instrument panel and connected to a pipe leading to the undercowl space (with suitable check valve) in to which a handheld fire extinguisher could be discharged, met with a positive response. Albeit for some reason unknown to me, such fire systems have been outlawed on rally cars. Regarding the RV that flipped on to its back at Fishburn recently, the pilot commented that he would have preferred to have had a small 2lb axe to have been able to get out. It was the rescuers that enabled exit through the broken canopy. He considered that the small "lifesaver" hammers were a complete waste of time. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert C Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 6:26 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Jos Okhuisen > <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> > > Hi! Frans/all > As a novice I agree with your suggestion on the "check valve" in the > return line and your impact theory for rubber pipes but the latter item > would be marginal either way IMHO. The main thing is to apply the > maximum delay of fuel spreading to the likely fire source at the front > or under you and an element of chance would apply to either type of > pipe. This is what has prompted me/many to replace the glass filters > under the seat for Andair in the fuselage away from the pilot and /or > have a different sight gauge to one encircling the pilot. > All such things have to be weight considered otherwise an automatic > extinguisher system with heavy tankage to supply but I'm sure you don't > need me to remark on that. > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans > Veldman > Sent: 03 September 2008 16:52 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Jos Okhuisen > > <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl> > > Hi Jos and all, > >> Hi Frans and all, The silence is the normal waiting for the >> investigation to come to a conclusion. > > Ok, I understand that. It is just that a few days ago you wrote that you > were going to post more detailed information the next day, but I never > saw it, so I wondered what happened. Glad that you are still ok. > >> Now a thick branch wiped the right side of the cockpit off, breaking >> the fuel return alu tube. > > Ok, two toughts about that: > > 1) The fuel return line is obviously a risk, as it can not be closed > with the fuel valve, and once broken it allows the tank to drain > completely. I just realised that this risk can be minimised by putting a > check-valve (one way valve) in the return line. So fuel can go TO the > tank, but never FROM the tank. Has anyone ever considered this? I think > I'm going to put this into my fuel system, unless someone can tell me > why it is not a good idea to do so. > > 2) I have seen that many builders do away with the rubber hoses and use > aluminium. Maybe the risk is higher with aluminium, since these tubes > breaks easily, whereas rubber hoses just give way to impacts. > > Frans > > >


    Message 37


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    Time: 03:37:33 PM PST US
    From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: fire extinguisher
    Ditto mine: Halon and behind-the-passenger-'headrest' mounting position, which is out of the way, within easy reach and doesn't become a projectile in a frontal crash. BTW, it takes a 10Kg pull to release the 1Kg bottle. So any deceleration of -10g in the direction of release will see the extinguisher becoming a free agent. Duncan McF. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert C Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com> > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 4:49 PM > Subject: RE: Europa-List: fire extinguisher > > >> >> <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> >> >> Hi! Danny >> I have a CFC ?(Believe it was that can't say positively since the >> aircraft is locked away in the trailor , it's not water and not powder >> anyway!) behind the passenger seat head rest and part of the passenger >> drill is to point out where it is .......it gives them lots of >> confidence ! >> Regards >> Bob Harrison G-PTAG >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of danny >> shepherd >> Sent: 04 September 2008 16:58 >> To: matronics >> Subject: Europa-List: fire extinguisher >> >> <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> >> >> Hi All, >> Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in >> >> there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking at the >> >> usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should fit. >> >> Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight) >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >


    Message 38


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    Time: 03:41:47 PM PST US
    From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Fw: Fire extinguishers
    Fowarded from Dave Watts: Halon fire extinguishers can be bought in the UK from Light Aero Spare www.lasaero.com They are expensive but are the only suitable extinguisher for use in the air. Dave Watts G-BXDY


    Message 39


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    Time: 05:07:42 PM PST US
    From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
    Subject: Rough River
    Hi All, Just to let the rough river goers know, I had originally planned to bring 2 gas cans for you guys to refuel with. Now looks like we'll be riding the bike. Will check weather.com in the am for a final decision. I think others had planned to bring some cans anyways. Sorry. Troy Maynor N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic Left to finish: Seats, engine install underway, some wiring. Weaverville, NC USA


    Message 40


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    Time: 10:22:52 PM PST US
    From: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: fire extinguisher
    Danny, The only one to use is Halon. Still available for aircraft use. Mine is mounted behind the passenger headrest. Go to http://www.lasaero.com/article/a-bcf-fire. regards, Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "danny shepherd" <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 4:58 PM Subject: Europa-List: fire extinguisher > <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> > > Hi All, > Can anyone tell me what kind of fire extinguisher they have in > there plane, and where about did they fit it. I have been looking at the > usual suppliers, and I'm a bit confused as to which one I should fit. > > Cheers Danny G-ceri (getting close to the first flight) > > > -- > Date: 04/09/2008 06:57 > >


    Message 41


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    Time: 10:37:48 PM PST US
    From: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Europa-List: fire extinguisher
    ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2008 8:41 PM Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: fire extinguisher > <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk> > > I may be wrong Danni but I think Halon extinguishers are now no longer > available in the UK anyway (aka BCF bromo chloro fluorethane) because > they are considered harmful to the environment. > > Legislation prohibits the sale of halon products from December 31st > 2002. - NO IM NOT WRONG !!! > http://www.mfs-fire-extinguishers.co.uk/halon.htm I am afraid you are Karl. BCF (aka Bromochlorodiflouromethane (Halon 1211)) is still permitted for use in aircraft and is exempt from the Montreal Convention for the immediate future. Using a water/gas extinguisher in the cockpit would likely be a quick way of creating an electrical fire and a dry powder one would be likely to put the cockpit in IMC. Halon is the only sensible answer at the moment. regards, Mike




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