Today's Message Index:
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1. 01:49 AM - Re: Classic stall characteristics (High Top Mod) (G-IANI)
2. 02:32 AM - Re: Jos Okhuisen (josok)
3. 04:19 AM - Re: Classic stall characteristics (High Top Mod) (Frans Veldman)
4. 11:38 AM - Re: Re: Fw: Fire extinguishers (Raimo Toivio)
5. 12:32 PM - Classic stall characteristics (High Top Mod) (David Stanbridge (Swift Aircraft))
6. 09:20 PM - Rough River (Fred Klein)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Classic stall characteristics (High Top Mod) |
Frans
Pictures as soon as possible please.
I never feel offended that others decide to do things in a new and different
way. This is what the Club and development is all about. What we want to
do is to take the best ideas and make them available to others. Yours may
be better looking, structurally stronger, easier to fly, cheaper to produce
etc or it may be the opposite so let us all know what you are doing.
Perhaps we could do an article for the Europa Flyer at some stage. It would
also be useful to know what regulations apply to what you are doing. In the
UK we would need to convince the LAA that it was sound engineering.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Jos Okhuisen |
Hi Nigel,
This installation was a 914, and there is NO restrictor in the return line. One
pump was producing 120 l/hr Through that return pipe. It was part of the pre-flight
check to check for that number to makes sure pumps and gascolator were
healthy.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Classic stall characteristics (High Top Mod) |
Hi Ian,
> Pictures as soon as possible please.
I posted already a picture. It shows where I cut the upper fuselage. It
also shows that I had to fiddle a little bit with the window flange to
make the window fit again. The rear flange got a bit narrow, so I
extended it with 5 layers of bid, then temporary put the window in with
plastic tape over the edges to fil the gap with expancel. For the lower
flange I extended the 3mm foam from the insert and shaped it into the
window's curve. The cut itself is fixed a la the mod 64B manual. On the
outside there are a few extra layers of bid. It is probably stronger
than it used to be. Once this was ready, fitting and bonding the window
was no different than normally.
The idea was that the hi-top extended the head room with 5 cm, but the
firewall with 7 cm. Compared to the normal XS this would cut 2 cm of the
lower part of the vision to the outside. I wanted to take that back,
plus a little bit more, without changing the look of the normal XS, and
retaining the panel space that became available by the still taller
firewall.
> It would
> also be useful to know what regulations apply to what you are doing. In the
> UK we would need to convince the LAA that it was sound engineering.
In the Netherlands we have no regulations. :-D Well, we need a compass,
an ASI, and Altitude gauge. There is no inspection. Once the airplane is
ready I only need a statement from a certified mechanic (not an
inspector!) that he has no objections and that's it! He will walk
around, kick the tires, confirm that it pretty much looks like an
airplane, and sign it off. I don't have to tell anything about mod's etc.
Once I have gone through that, I'm finished with it for the rest of my
life. The builder is considered to be the manufacturer, and once a year
I have to sign a document that I maintained my airplane conform the
rules of the manufacturer (yep, that's me too), in order to get a new
airworthiness certificate. If I want to cut off the last foot of my
wings, to see how it flies without it, I'm free to do so.
It is no coincidence that some mod's (nose wheel springs, tail wheel
mod, etc.) originate from the Netherlands. This is probably the most
liberal country for experimentals worldwide.
Frans
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List: Fw: Fire extinguishers |
Hi Frans
"If it is for on the ground, CO2 would be fine."
Thats true. But if it is fixed inside the plane, Halon is your only sensible choice.
"I don't think so. Your main objective is getting down, as fast as
possible. Fruitless attempts to extinguish the fire and partly choking
yourself is not compatible with preparing an emergency landing."
You are wrong. Have you ever been on fire? Can you even think about those pains
and horror? You would be happy if you had a possibility to kill those flames (by
Halon only).
I think that would be your first action, landing the second.
> About 20 years ago one
> 2-engine Pipers cocpit flamed because choke (uncorrect word) fuel line
> got broken and pilot caught fire. He has not (Halon) extinguisher
> and elected to jump out as a living torch.
"Suppose he had Halon, and then? You can maybe extinguish this fire, but
after that the pilot is still soaked with fuel. There was something that
ignited this fuel, and this something is still there. The fuel is also
still there. After the Halon is gone, the situation is likely to repeat
again, but this time without the Halon."
That accident happened 18.8.1982 above EFJO. It was Piper Navajo PA-31-310 OH-PNP
and it was carrying newspapers. Sudden fuelfire in the cockpit. That was because
broken
fueltube and a spark from some switch. That "something" was maybe once!!!
Pilot has not any extinguisher and elected to jump away (w/o parachut).
Where is some electricitet - there is always a spark possibility in every mechanical
switch
w or w/o diodes, relays and condensators. Think about old Cessnas & Pipers and
their switches
and connections! Maybe our extremely hi-tech experimentals are a bit sophisticated
but still...
"Probably before that time you will get a spark from your trim
motor, flaps, or various other little electrical critters on board."
I think I cannot get a spark from trimmotor to the cockpit to flame fuel.
Anyway - I will carry my little half kilo nontoxic Halon-bottle onboard at least
for peace of mind.
Man never know.
Regards, Raimo
Message 5
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| Subject: | Classic stall characteristics (High Top Mod) |
One contributing factor to the reduced stability will be that the higher
fuselage perimeters resulting from the modification has shifted the
aerodynamic centre of the wing / fuselage combination forward. This then
reduces the longitudinal static margin (distance between CG and AC) and as a
result the aircraft will be less stable in pitch.
Frans
Both the original High Top (with the high cowl) and the new version
(lowered
cowl, bigger screen) the difference in max speed and cruise speed (for
a
fixed power setting) is too small to measure given the other variables
such
as weight and very small build differences.
The only thing I have noticed since we completed testing is that the
new
(64b) setup seems to be very slightly less stable in pitch. Having
modified
the aircraft we cannot go back to the original to get a real
comparison.
The new deeper screen seems to generate a little more lift from the
fuselage. Flying "hands off" in gusty conditions, and directly into
wind,
the nose will hunt up and down very slightly with a period of about 10
seconds. This is so slight that the original High Top may have been
the
same but we did not notice until we started to look carefully for
differences. If you have your hand on the stick you damp this out.
Most of
this testing was done with the TruTrak autopilot on to maintain the
heading
and this could be the cause.
Has any other high top owner noticed anything similar?
David Stanbridge
Message 6
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Just want to thank Jeff Behrnes and Paul McCallister for their
leadership in making the 2nd Annual Rough River Europa Fly-In a
complete success...hurricane weather notwithstanding. For me it was so
nice to be able to put faces to names from this forum and to meet a
wonderful group of people. The opportunity to exchange information and
stories was much appreciated...and to hear from Bud Yerly about pending
events regarding the Europa company and products...I trust Bud will
flesh this out to the forum at large when time permits.
It was great to see a line up of the 3 Europa variants...Paul's XS
mono, Scott Dingman's XS conventional taildragger, and Jeff Robert's XS
trigear.
I could not resist Paul's offer of a hop to a lowly builder...an
unexpected pleasure...thank you Paul!
Thanks to everyone who came ahead and drove-in when their flying plans
were squelched by the marginal weather all day Friday,
Fred
A194
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