Europa-List Digest Archive

Tue 09/09/08


Total Messages Posted: 14



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:24 AM - Cabin vent - air outlet? (Frans Veldman)
     2. 02:42 AM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (craig bastin)
     3. 03:02 AM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (philip george)
     4. 03:05 AM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (David Buckley)
     5. 03:55 AM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (josok)
     6. 04:45 AM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (Raimo Toivio)
     7. 06:52 AM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (Karl Heindl)
     8. 07:35 AM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (Graham Singleton)
     9. 09:10 AM - Re: Europa Club AGM (Brian Hutchinson)
    10. 01:30 PM - Re: This gaping hole (nose gear) (ALAN YERLY)
    11. 01:49 PM - Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper (Rob Housman)
    12. 02:47 PM - Re: This gaping hole (nose gear) (Frans Veldman)
    13. 02:56 PM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (Frans Veldman)
    14. 07:43 PM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (Steve Hagar)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:24:40 AM PST US
    Subject: Cabin vent - air outlet?
    From: "Frans Veldman" <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
    It is easy to install air inlets, there are plenty of examples in the galleries and build logs. But when air enters the cabin, air has also to be able to leave somewhere. How have people accomplished this? I don't see any examples for this. Originally, I planned to make an exit in the D-panel, and let the air escape via the rear fuselage (trim tab slots). But now I've read that the rear fuselage has a higher pressure than the cabin. What is the best way to vent the cabin, to obtain a steady airflow, rather than trying to pressurize the cabin or to get oscillations in the air? Any ideas or satisfying implementations? Frans Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:42:50 AM PST US
    From: "craig bastin" <craigb@onthenet.com.au>
    Subject: Cabin vent - air outlet?
    Lance who is building a Mono about three hours drive from myself has an outlet installed in the top of the "D" that vents to freestream airflow just behind the bulkhead via ramp simmilar to a cowl flap exit, it slopes in line with the fuselage so rain etc doesnt try and fill up the "outlet" while parked I plan to do the same on mine, from memory he has a small baffle plate that can be adjusted as needed and closed when parked. craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frans Veldman Sent: Tuesday, 9 September 2008 5:24 PM Subject: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl> It is easy to install air inlets, there are plenty of examples in the galleries and build logs. But when air enters the cabin, air has also to be able to leave somewhere. How have people accomplished this? I don't see any examples for this. Originally, I planned to make an exit in the D-panel, and let the air escape via the rear fuselage (trim tab slots). But now I've read that the rear fuselage has a higher pressure than the cabin. What is the best way to vent the cabin, to obtain a steady airflow, rather than trying to pressurize the cabin or to get oscillations in the air? Any ideas or satisfying implementations? Frans Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 4:58 AM


    Message 3


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    Time: 03:02:39 AM PST US
    From: philip george <philipgeorge347@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Cabin vent - air outlet?
    Frans . You will find if it is a mono wheel =2Cair will be drawn out thru t he wheel- well as this is a low pressure area .Being drawn thru the retract ion lever slot . This is not so on the tri-gear. Phil George .XS Mono wheel.> Subject: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? > From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl> Date: Tue=2C 9 Sep 2008 10:23:40 +0300> T eldman" <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>> > It is easy to install air inlets=2C t here are plenty of examples in the galleries and build logs.> But when air enters the cabin=2C air has also to be able to leave somewhere.> How have p eople accomplished this? I don't see any examples for this.> > Originally =2C I planned to make an exit in the D-panel=2C and let the air escape via the rear fuselage (trim tab slots). But now I've read that the rear fuselag e has a higher pressure than the cabin.> > What is the best way to vent the cabin=2C to obtain a steady airflow=2C rather than trying to pressurize th e cabin or to get oscillations in the air? Any ideas or satisfying implemen ====> > > _________________________________________________________________ Make a mini you and download it into Windows Live Messenger


    Message 4


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    Time: 03:05:50 AM PST US
    From: "David Buckley" <wooburnaviation@googlemail.com>
    Subject: Re: Cabin vent - air outlet?
    Well we must have had a particulary draughty rear fuselage, as we had a domestic plastic vent grill in the D panel, and that seemed to work fine when combined with a NACA duct. I think the NACA placement is more important, bearing in mind the low pressure that definately exists on top of the wing ! Dave On 09/09/2008, Frans Veldman <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl> wrote: > > frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl> > > It is easy to install air inlets, there are plenty of examples in the > galleries and build logs. > But when air enters the cabin, air has also to be able to leave somewhere. > How have people accomplished this? I don't see any examples for this. > > Originally, I planned to make an exit in the D-panel, and let the air > escape via the rear fuselage (trim tab slots). But now I've read that the > rear fuselage has a higher pressure than the cabin. > > What is the best way to vent the cabin, to obtain a steady airflow, rather > than trying to pressurize the cabin or to get oscillations in the air? Any > ideas or satisfying implementations? > > Frans > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > >


    Message 5


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    Time: 03:55:18 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Cabin vent - air outlet?
    From: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
    Don'f wotty about venting out, if there would be over-pressure in the cabin, it will lift/bulge the doors enough to escape. The rear of the fuselage definitively has a higher pressure, probably from high pressure air from under the wings entering the flap drive slots. There always was a cold draft though the flying controlsblowing into the cockpit. The UC slot did not have any effect. With flaps down, slow approach, there was an exhaust smell entering from somewhere.Never found out from where, opening the vents fully reduced it. Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org


    Message 6


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    Time: 04:45:03 AM PST US
    From: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
    Subject: Re: Cabin vent - air outlet?
    That=B4s true. Through the UC slot you can see mother ground but nothing comes in. Somebody wrote years ago if you forget to close the door(s) properly (one shooting bolt is not in) you will notice it soon, because in that case the UC slot will be an air inlet instead of outlet. I have had no problems with air outlets. During cold seasons I feel some nasty draught (extra air inlets) from the headrest and seat ass storage areas. They should be fully closed but obvioushly they are not. They are on my list to improve. Any ideas? Raimo from Finland OH-XRT ----- Original Message ----- From: philip george To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 1:00 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? Frans . You will find if it is a mono wheel ,air will be drawn out thru the wheel- well as this is a low pressure area .Being drawn thru the retraction lever slot . This is not so on the tri-gear. Phil George .XS Mono wheel. > Subject: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? > From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl > Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:23:40 +0300 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl> > > It is easy to install air inlets, there are plenty of examples in the galleries and build logs. > But when air enters the cabin, air has also to be able to leave somewhere. > How have people accomplished this? I don't see any examples for this. > > Originally, I planned to make an exit in the D-panel, and let the air escape via the rear fuselage (trim tab slots). But now I've read that the rear fuselage has a higher pressure than the cabin. > > What is the best way to vent the cabin, to obtain a steady airflow, rather than trying to pressurize the cabin or to get oscillations in the air? Any ideas or satisfying implementations? > > Frans > > > > > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > &====================== &g > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Try Facebook in Wint/01/' target='_new'>Try it Now!


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:52:37 AM PST US
    From: Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com>
    Subject: Cabin vent - air outlet?
    Frans, One neat solution is by Ian Rickard, with an opening in the D-panel and ducted to an outlet in the tailfin. I never noticed any problem, with a little vent in the rear of the door , and as Josok says, air will also escape past the door seals. Karl ---------------------------------------- > Subject: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? > From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl > Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:23:40 +0300 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > > It is easy to install air inlets, there are plenty of examples in the galleries and build logs. > But when air enters the cabin, air has also to be able to leave somewhere. > How have people accomplished this? I don't see any examples for this. > > Originally, I planned to make an exit in the D-panel, and let the air escape via the rear fuselage (trim tab slots). But now I've read that the rear fuselage has a higher pressure than the cabin. > > What is the best way to vent the cabin, to obtain a steady airflow, rather than trying to pressurize the cabin or to get oscillations in the air? Any ideas or satisfying implementations? > > Frans > > > > > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > > > > > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 07:35:24 AM PST US
    From: Graham Singleton <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
    Subject: Re: Cabin vent - air outlet?
    Frans I used to notice the draft tugging gently at my sleeve! It is worth putting a nylon latch half way along the door frame to hold the latched door in place Graham Karl Heindl wrote: > > > Frans, > > One neat solution is by Ian Rickard, with an opening in the D-panel and ducted to an outlet in the tailfin. > > I never noticed any problem, with a little vent in the rear of the door , and as Josok says, air will also escape past the door seals. > > Karl >


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:10:07 AM PST US
    From: "Brian Hutchinson" <hutch@hangarbout.fsnet.co.uk>
    Subject: Europa Club AGM
    Hi Brian, I recall this posting a couple of weeks ago. Was there any update on Europa Aircraft 2004 from Ivan? Just curious... Brian Hutchinson _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Davies Sent: 28 August 2008 09:09 Subject: Europa-List: Europa Club AGM For those who did not get a direct e mail or have forgotten, the Europa Club AGM will take place at Laddingford airfield at 1400 on Saturday 30 August. Ivan Shaw will be addressing the AGM and we expect an update on Europa Aircraft (2004) Ltd. Call 07801 7211 for details and to let them know you are coming. There will be a BBQ after the AGM. Regards Brian Davies The Europa Club, membership sec.


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:30:22 PM PST US
    From: "ALAN YERLY" <budyerly@msn.com>
    Subject: Re: This gaping hole (nose gear)
    Frans, I didn't see anyone post an answer so take it from a guy who has built and flown a half dozen Tri=gears. The hole gives you 100 square inches of air exit, greatly improving cooling. Maintenance is a snap on the nose. Go to Aircraft Spruce and use the fire wall material kit to completely fireproof the opening. I use the firewall material and seal all the edges with stainless just to dress it up. As far as the speed penalty, if I can still get 140 kts with a 914 at 75% power at sea level with a tri-gear. I don't see a down side. I've flown other tri-gears with the standard firewall and they all have cooling issues and do not go any faster. As for me...Leave the hole and run cooler. Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations US Europa Dealer www.customflightcreations.com<http://www.customflightcreations.com/> (813) 653-4989 ----- Original Message ----- From: Frans Veldman<mailto:frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl> To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 11:57 AM Subject: Europa-List: This gaping hole (nose gear) <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl<mailto:frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>> I'm building a tri-gear, and cut out the bottom of the fuselage for the nose gear per instructions. Apparently, the idea in the manual is to leave it as is. What are the aerodynamic properties of this hole? is it sucking air out of the well, or is it building pressure? I just closed it, by installing a plate in the nose gear system. If the nose gear activates the spring, the plate opens with it since it is attached to the frame. Normally it just blocks off this hole. Of course I hope that it will be beneficial. Has someone else been closing this hole as well? If so, was it beneficial? Frans Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org<http://www.europaowners.org/> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?Europa-List> http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi on>


    Message 11


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    Time: 01:49:53 PM PST US
    From: "Rob Housman" <rob@hyperion-ef.com>
    Subject: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper
    This "highly recommended" mod is simplicity itself to install except for what we colonials would refer to as typical English understatement, when the procedure says to "remove the pin which locates into the friction plate" without any suggestion as to how to accomplish this. First, having assumed that a lack of guidance meant that the pin is easily removed, I tried to grip the pin with my fingers. OK, so the pin fits a bit snugly. Next I tried ordinary pliers. No success. Time to bring on the heavy lifting equipment in the form of those old reliable Vice-Grip pliers. Hmmm, that managed to damage the pin but it is still firmly in place. Now it was time to get a bit clever, so I drilled a hole in the pin and tapped it, put a stainless steel screw into the hole and pulled on it. Nothing moved, so it was time to start using some brute force, a jack screw. I fabricated a short tube that I put over the pin and used the screw to pull the pin against closed end of the tube. The screw broke. OK, no problem, just put a nut onto the screw to do the same thing. That pulled the remaining length of the screw out of the hole, stripping the threads in the pin which had still not moved one micron. With nothing left on which to grip the pin I finally got smart and fabricated a spacer to cover the pin. These Mods are such fun! Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, CA Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete


    Message 12


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    Time: 02:47:16 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: This gaping hole (nose gear)
    From: "Frans Veldman" <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
    I was referring to the hole in the bottom. It appears you are talking about the hole between the nose gear and the engine, where we are supposed to install this stainless firewall thing. You didn't quite answer my question then, but introduced a new idea about leaving the firewall out and make a duct out of this well, is this correct? Too bad I just installed this stainless thing, AND closed the entire bottom of the tunnel section, including the part where the nosegear protrudes to the outside world... Frans Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org


    Message 13


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    Time: 02:56:59 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Cabin vent - air outlet?
    From: "Frans Veldman" <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
    Thanks for the answers. I'm building a tri-gear by the way. As air inputs I have a scoop in the top (in the closed position it is completely level with the fuselage), windows with a vent opening, and these ACS "ultimate vents" just below the instrument panel. I guess this is enough for air vents. The general consensus seams to be that the doors will function as an air exit. I'm not to happy with that, for I try to keep them into their intended shape (have some aluminium bar rivited in to discourage them from bulging out) and using them as an exit will probably generate some noise. Good idea that the area above the wing will be low pressure, I could maybe make some gills in the bagage bay just above the wing. Anything that enters via the flap slots will find a quick way out then as well. Frans Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org


    Message 14


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    Time: 07:43:02 PM PST US
    From: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Cabin vent - air outlet?
    I had vents in the D panel and the higher pressure in the back caused some exhaust getting into the flap slots while going slow to enter the cockpit. After performing a preflight on a Liberty (certificated Europa?) I noted 2 openings on the bottom of the fuselage. Each had a reverse scoop over it. I went back to my Europa. I already had an access door under the fuselage for the gascolator. I pulled the door off approx 4" X 5" and fashioned a reverse scoop out of fiberglass. In addition to this I made better closure of the flap slots using rubber sheeting. The results were noticeably better, using a CO monitor. I now only get a short beep once in a while in the pattern rather than exceeding limits. Steve Hagar A143 Mesa AZ > [Original Message] > From: Frans Veldman <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com> > Date: 9/9/2008 12:27:37 AM > Subject: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? > <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl> > > It is easy to install air inlets, there are plenty of examples in the galleries and build logs. > But when air enters the cabin, air has also to be able to leave somewhere. > How have people accomplished this? I don't see any examples for this. > > Originally, I planned to make an exit in the D-panel, and let the air escape via the rear fuselage (trim tab slots). But now I've read that the rear fuselage has a higher pressure than the cabin. > > What is the best way to vent the cabin, to obtain a steady airflow, rather than trying to pressurize the cabin or to get oscillations in the air? Any ideas or satisfying implementations? > > Frans > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > >




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