Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:24 AM - Cabin vent - air outlet? (Frans Veldman)
2. 02:42 AM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (craig bastin)
3. 03:02 AM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (philip george)
4. 03:05 AM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (David Buckley)
5. 03:55 AM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (josok)
6. 04:45 AM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (Raimo Toivio)
7. 06:52 AM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (Karl Heindl)
8. 07:35 AM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (Graham Singleton)
9. 09:10 AM - Re: Europa Club AGM (Brian Hutchinson)
10. 01:30 PM - Re: This gaping hole (nose gear) (ALAN YERLY)
11. 01:49 PM - Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper (Rob Housman)
12. 02:47 PM - Re: This gaping hole (nose gear) (Frans Veldman)
13. 02:56 PM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (Frans Veldman)
14. 07:43 PM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (Steve Hagar)
Message 1
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Subject: | Cabin vent - air outlet? |
It is easy to install air inlets, there are plenty of examples in the galleries
and build logs.
But when air enters the cabin, air has also to be able to leave somewhere.
How have people accomplished this? I don't see any examples for this.
Originally, I planned to make an exit in the D-panel, and let the air escape via
the rear fuselage (trim tab slots). But now I've read that the rear fuselage
has a higher pressure than the cabin.
What is the best way to vent the cabin, to obtain a steady airflow, rather than
trying to pressurize the cabin or to get oscillations in the air? Any ideas or
satisfying implementations?
Frans
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 2
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Subject: | Cabin vent - air outlet? |
Lance who is building a Mono about three hours drive from myself has an
outlet installed in the top
of the "D" that vents to freestream airflow just behind the bulkhead via
ramp simmilar to a cowl flap
exit, it slopes in line with the fuselage so rain etc doesnt try and fill up
the "outlet" while parked
I plan to do the same on mine, from memory he has a small baffle plate that
can be adjusted as needed and closed
when parked.
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frans
Veldman
Sent: Tuesday, 9 September 2008 5:24 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet?
<frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
It is easy to install air inlets, there are plenty of examples in the
galleries and build logs.
But when air enters the cabin, air has also to be able to leave somewhere.
How have people accomplished this? I don't see any examples for this.
Originally, I planned to make an exit in the D-panel, and let the air escape
via the rear fuselage (trim tab slots). But now I've read that the rear
fuselage has a higher pressure than the cabin.
What is the best way to vent the cabin, to obtain a steady airflow, rather
than trying to pressurize the cabin or to get oscillations in the air? Any
ideas or satisfying implementations?
Frans
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
4:58 AM
Message 3
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Subject: | Cabin vent - air outlet? |
Frans . You will find if it is a mono wheel =2Cair will be drawn out thru t
he wheel- well as this is a low pressure area .Being drawn thru the retract
ion lever slot . This is not so on the tri-gear.
Phil George .XS Mono wheel.> Subject: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet?
> From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl> Date: Tue=2C 9 Sep 2008 10:23:40 +0300> T
eldman" <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>> > It is easy to install air inlets=2C t
here are plenty of examples in the galleries and build logs.> But when air
enters the cabin=2C air has also to be able to leave somewhere.> How have p
eople accomplished this? I don't see any examples for this.> > Originally
=2C I planned to make an exit in the D-panel=2C and let the air escape via
the rear fuselage (trim tab slots). But now I've read that the rear fuselag
e has a higher pressure than the cabin.> > What is the best way to vent the
cabin=2C to obtain a steady airflow=2C rather than trying to pressurize th
e cabin or to get oscillations in the air? Any ideas or satisfying implemen
====> > >
_________________________________________________________________
Make a mini you and download it into Windows Live Messenger
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? |
Well we must have had a particulary draughty rear fuselage, as we had a
domestic plastic vent grill in the D panel, and that seemed to work fine
when combined with a NACA duct. I think the NACA placement is more
important, bearing in mind the low pressure that definately exists on top of
the wing !
Dave
On 09/09/2008, Frans Veldman <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl> wrote:
>
> frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
>
> It is easy to install air inlets, there are plenty of examples in the
> galleries and build logs.
> But when air enters the cabin, air has also to be able to leave somewhere.
> How have people accomplished this? I don't see any examples for this.
>
> Originally, I planned to make an exit in the D-panel, and let the air
> escape via the rear fuselage (trim tab slots). But now I've read that the
> rear fuselage has a higher pressure than the cabin.
>
> What is the best way to vent the cabin, to obtain a steady airflow, rather
> than trying to pressurize the cabin or to get oscillations in the air? Any
> ideas or satisfying implementations?
>
> Frans
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? |
Don'f wotty about venting out, if there would be over-pressure in the cabin, it
will lift/bulge the doors enough to escape. The rear of the fuselage definitively
has a higher pressure, probably from high pressure air from under the wings
entering the flap drive slots. There always was a cold draft though the flying
controlsblowing into the cockpit. The UC slot did not have any effect. With
flaps down, slow approach, there was an exhaust smell entering from somewhere.Never
found out from where, opening the vents fully reduced it.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? |
That=B4s true. Through the UC slot you can see mother ground
but nothing comes in.
Somebody wrote years ago if you forget to close the door(s) properly
(one shooting bolt is not in) you will notice it soon,
because in that case the UC slot will be an air inlet instead of outlet.
I have had no problems with air outlets.
During cold seasons I feel some nasty draught (extra air inlets) from
the headrest and seat ass storage areas. They should be fully closed but
obvioushly they are not. They are on my list to improve. Any ideas?
Raimo from Finland
OH-XRT
----- Original Message -----
From: philip george
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 1:00 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet?
Frans . You will find if it is a mono wheel ,air will be drawn out
thru the wheel- well as this is a low pressure area .Being drawn thru
the retraction lever slot . This is not so on the tri-gear.
Phil George .XS Mono wheel.
> Subject: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet?
> From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl
> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:23:40 +0300
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>
<frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
>
> It is easy to install air inlets, there are plenty of examples in
the galleries and build logs.
> But when air enters the cabin, air has also to be able to leave
somewhere.
> How have people accomplished this? I don't see any examples for
this.
>
> Originally, I planned to make an exit in the D-panel, and let the
air escape via the rear fuselage (trim tab slots). But now I've read
that the rear fuselage has a higher pressure than the cabin.
>
> What is the best way to vent the cabin, to obtain a steady airflow,
rather than trying to pressurize the cabin or to get oscillations in the
air? Any ideas or satisfying implementations?
>
> Frans
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
&======================
&g
>
>
>
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Try Facebook in Wint/01/' target='_new'>Try it Now!
Message 7
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Subject: | Cabin vent - air outlet? |
Frans,
One neat solution is by Ian Rickard, with an opening in the D-panel and ducted
to an outlet in the tailfin.
I never noticed any problem, with a little vent in the rear of the door , and as
Josok says, air will also escape past the door seals.
Karl
----------------------------------------
> Subject: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet?
> From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl
> Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 10:23:40 +0300
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>
>
> It is easy to install air inlets, there are plenty of examples in the galleries
and build logs.
> But when air enters the cabin, air has also to be able to leave somewhere.
> How have people accomplished this? I don't see any examples for this.
>
> Originally, I planned to make an exit in the D-panel, and let the air escape
via the rear fuselage (trim tab slots). But now I've read that the rear fuselage
has a higher pressure than the cabin.
>
> What is the best way to vent the cabin, to obtain a steady airflow, rather than
trying to pressurize the cabin or to get oscillations in the air? Any ideas
or satisfying implementations?
>
> Frans
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? |
Frans
I used to notice the draft tugging gently at my sleeve! It is worth
putting a nylon latch half way along the door frame to hold the latched
door in place
Graham
Karl Heindl wrote:
>
>
> Frans,
>
> One neat solution is by Ian Rickard, with an opening in the D-panel and ducted
to an outlet in the tailfin.
>
> I never noticed any problem, with a little vent in the rear of the door , and
as Josok says, air will also escape past the door seals.
>
> Karl
>
Message 9
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Hi Brian,
I recall this posting a couple of weeks ago. Was there any update on
Europa Aircraft 2004 from Ivan?
Just curious...
Brian Hutchinson
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian Davies
Sent: 28 August 2008 09:09
Subject: Europa-List: Europa Club AGM
For those who did not get a direct e mail or have forgotten, the Europa Club
AGM will take place at Laddingford airfield at 1400 on Saturday 30 August.
Ivan Shaw will be addressing the AGM and we expect an update on Europa
Aircraft (2004) Ltd. Call 07801 7211 for details and to let them know you
are coming. There will be a BBQ after the AGM.
Regards
Brian Davies
The Europa Club, membership sec.
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: This gaping hole (nose gear) |
Frans,
I didn't see anyone post an answer so take it from a guy who has built
and flown a half dozen Tri=gears.
The hole gives you 100 square inches of air exit, greatly improving
cooling. Maintenance is a snap on the nose. Go to Aircraft Spruce and
use the fire wall material kit to completely fireproof the opening. I
use the firewall material and seal all the edges with stainless just to
dress it up.
As far as the speed penalty, if I can still get 140 kts with a 914 at
75% power at sea level with a tri-gear. I don't see a down side. I've
flown other tri-gears with the standard firewall and they all have
cooling issues and do not go any faster.
As for me...Leave the hole and run cooler.
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations
US Europa Dealer
www.customflightcreations.com<http://www.customflightcreations.com/>
(813) 653-4989
----- Original Message -----
From: Frans Veldman<mailto:frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 11:57 AM
Subject: Europa-List: This gaping hole (nose gear)
<frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl<mailto:frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>>
I'm building a tri-gear, and cut out the bottom of the fuselage for
the nose gear per instructions. Apparently, the idea in the manual is to
leave it as is. What are the aerodynamic properties of this hole? is it
sucking air out of the well, or is it building pressure?
I just closed it, by installing a plate in the nose gear system. If
the nose gear activates the spring, the plate opens with it since it is
attached to the frame. Normally it just blocks off this hole.
Of course I hope that it will be beneficial. Has someone else been
closing this hole as well? If so, was it beneficial?
Frans
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org<http://www.europaowners.org/>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 11
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Subject: | Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper |
This "highly recommended" mod is simplicity itself to install except for
what we colonials would refer to as typical English understatement, when the
procedure says to "remove the pin which locates into the friction plate"
without any suggestion as to how to accomplish this.
First, having assumed that a lack of guidance meant that the pin is easily
removed, I tried to grip the pin with my fingers. OK, so the pin fits a bit
snugly. Next I tried ordinary pliers. No success. Time to bring on the
heavy lifting equipment in the form of those old reliable Vice-Grip pliers.
Hmmm, that managed to damage the pin but it is still firmly in place.
Now it was time to get a bit clever, so I drilled a hole in the pin and
tapped it, put a stainless steel screw into the hole and pulled on it.
Nothing moved, so it was time to start using some brute force, a jack screw.
I fabricated a short tube that I put over the pin and used the screw to pull
the pin against closed end of the tube. The screw broke. OK, no problem,
just put a nut onto the screw to do the same thing. That pulled the
remaining length of the screw out of the hole, stripping the threads in the
pin which had still not moved one micron.
With nothing left on which to grip the pin I finally got smart and
fabricated a spacer to cover the pin.
These Mods are such fun!
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Irvine, CA
Europa XS Tri-Gear
A070
Airframe complete
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: This gaping hole (nose gear) |
I was referring to the hole in the bottom. It appears you are talking about the
hole between the nose gear and the engine, where we are supposed to install this
stainless firewall thing.
You didn't quite answer my question then, but introduced a new idea about leaving
the firewall out and make a duct out of this well, is this correct?
Too bad I just installed this stainless thing, AND closed the entire bottom of
the tunnel section, including the part where the nosegear protrudes to the outside
world...
Frans
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? |
Thanks for the answers. I'm building a tri-gear by the way. As air inputs I have
a scoop in the top (in the closed position it is completely level with the fuselage),
windows with a vent opening, and these ACS "ultimate vents" just below
the instrument panel. I guess this is enough for air vents.
The general consensus seams to be that the doors will function as an air exit.
I'm not to happy with that, for I try to keep them into their intended shape (have
some aluminium bar rivited in to discourage them from bulging out) and using
them as an exit will probably generate some noise. Good idea that the area
above the wing will be low pressure, I could maybe make some gills in the bagage
bay just above the wing. Anything that enters via the flap slots will find
a quick way out then as well.
Frans
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 14
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Subject: | Cabin vent - air outlet? |
I had vents in the D panel and the higher pressure in the back caused
some exhaust getting into the flap slots while going slow to enter the
cockpit. After performing a preflight on a Liberty (certificated Europa?)
I noted 2 openings on the bottom of the fuselage. Each had a reverse
scoop over it. I went back to my Europa. I already had an access door
under the fuselage for the gascolator. I pulled the door off approx 4"
X 5" and fashioned a reverse scoop out of fiberglass. In addition to
this I made better closure of the flap slots using rubber sheeting. The
results were noticeably better, using a CO monitor. I now only get a short
beep once in a while in the pattern rather than exceeding limits.
Steve Hagar
A143
Mesa AZ
> [Original Message]
> From: Frans Veldman <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Date: 9/9/2008 12:27:37 AM
> Subject: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet?
>
<frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
>
> It is easy to install air inlets, there are plenty of examples in the
galleries and build logs.
> But when air enters the cabin, air has also to be able to leave somewhere.
> How have people accomplished this? I don't see any examples for this.
>
> Originally, I planned to make an exit in the D-panel, and let the air
escape via the rear fuselage (trim tab slots). But now I've read that the
rear fuselage has a higher pressure than the cabin.
>
> What is the best way to vent the cabin, to obtain a steady airflow,
rather than trying to pressurize the cabin or to get oscillations in the
air? Any ideas or satisfying implementations?
>
> Frans
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
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