---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/10/08: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:42 AM - Re: A very lucky escape from power lines (zwakie) 2. 02:07 AM - Re: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper (Peter Jeffers) 3. 02:53 AM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (G-IANI) 4. 03:19 AM - FW: Old Sarum Fly in REMINDER (G-IANI) 5. 05:37 AM - Re: Return air vents and nose gear holes (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com) 6. 08:02 AM - Re: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper (Rob Housman) 7. 08:40 AM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 8. 12:08 PM - Re: Old Sarum Fly in REMINDER (Duncan & Ami McFadyean) 9. 01:02 PM - Keep on building! (Raimo Toivio) 10. 01:50 PM - Re: Keep on building! (Rob Housman) 11. 02:08 PM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (Frans Veldman) 12. 02:20 PM - emergency exits [was: Re: Jos Okhuisen] (Rowland & Wilma Carson) 13. 03:12 PM - Re: Old Sarum Fly in REMINDER (Ray) 14. 05:22 PM - Re: Keep on building! (Peter Zutrauen) 15. 05:40 PM - For Sale (Bob Berube) 16. 06:20 PM - Re: For Sale (Fred Klein) 17. 09:39 PM - Re: emergency exits [was: Re: Jos Okhuisen] (Ralph K. Hallett III) 18. 10:47 PM - Re: For Sale (Richard Sementilli) 19. 11:32 PM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (Steve Pitt) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:42:28 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: A very lucky escape from power lines From: "zwakie" It appears that this Europa is up for sale: [url]http://pilots24.com/pilots24/markt24/showad.php?adid=12913&catid=7[/url] >From those who don't speak German, the add roughly states: "For sale due to powerline incident: Europa Classic TriGear with Rotax 912 80BHP. Wings damaged from recovering. Prop damaged" Might be an opportunity for those looking for a restoration-project... Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:46 AM PST US From: "Peter Jeffers" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper Hi Rob, I know what you mean about trying to remove the pin that locates the the friction plate since I had to remove it to do a completely different job. I am rather confused however since in the instructions for Mod 59 that I followed there is no requirement to remove this pin anyway. In fact for the friction damper to continue working correctly this pin must most definitely remain in place. Somewhat confused by your question Pete Jeffers G-BVIZ 1300 hrs and climbing _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Housman Sent: 09 September 2008 21:49 Subject: Europa-List: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper This "highly recommended" mod is simplicity itself to install except for what we colonials would refer to as typical English understatement, when the procedure says to "remove the pin which locates into the friction plate" without any suggestion as to how to accomplish this. First, having assumed that a lack of guidance meant that the pin is easily removed, I tried to grip the pin with my fingers. OK, so the pin fits a bit snugly. Next I tried ordinary pliers. No success. Time to bring on the heavy lifting equipment in the form of those old reliable Vice-Grip pliers. Hmmm, that managed to damage the pin but it is still firmly in place. Now it was time to get a bit clever, so I drilled a hole in the pin and tapped it, put a stainless steel screw into the hole and pulled on it. Nothing moved, so it was time to start using some brute force, a jack screw. I fabricated a short tube that I put over the pin and used the screw to pull the pin against closed end of the tube. The screw broke. OK, no problem, just put a nut onto the screw to do the same thing. That pulled the remaining length of the screw out of the hole, stripping the threads in the pin which had still not moved one micron. With nothing left on which to grip the pin I finally got smart and fabricated a spacer to cover the pin. These Mods are such fun! Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, CA Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 4:58 AM ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:53:23 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? Frans Karl has made reference to my vent mod. I have tidied up the documentation a little and it is attached. I do not suggest it is the right solution rather an experiment. So far I have not made the time to do any detailed measurements. I have never detected air moving in or out round my door seals. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans Veldman Sent: 09 September 2008 22:56 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? --> Thanks for the answers. I'm building a tri-gear by the way. As air inputs I have a scoop in the top (in the closed position it is completely level with the fuselage), windows with a vent opening, and these ACS "ultimate vents" just below the instrument panel. I guess this is enough for air vents. The general consensus seams to be that the doors will function as an air exit. I'm not to happy with that, for I try to keep them into their intended shape (have some aluminium bar rivited in to discourage them from bulging out) and using them as an exit will probably generate some noise. Good idea that the area above the wing will be low pressure, I could maybe make some gills in the bagage bay just above the wing. Anything that enters via the flap slots will find a quick way out then as well. Frans Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:55 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: FW: Europa-List: Old Sarum Fly in REMINDER Old Sarum Europa Fly In Saturday September 13, 2008 Free Landing for Europas, Fuel available Come and meet the two resident Europas see Mod 64B (High Top with lowered cowl and bigger screen) Non Flying builders and potential owners Welcome This year we have invited the local Scouts and would hope to provide some air experience flights. (Pilots must have 100 hours and 25 on type) If you plan (weather permitting) to attend please contact Ian Rickard on 01483 714096 or e-mail (g-iani @ntlworld.com) By letting me know we can organise reserved Tables for Lunch (or Barbeque depending on numbers) Please indicate if you could provide an experience flight Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:37:14 AM PST US From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Re: Return air vents and nose gear holes Hello Fran and all, I installed "Ultimate Ventilators" below my panel in N245E where the Europa supplied NACA vents would normally go. I love 'em! You get a nice blast of air from them both on the ground and in the air. I also have 3 "eyeball" vents installed in my overhead panel which are fed from a NACA vent installed on the right side of the vertical fin. The eyeball vents work very well at flight speeds, but don't offer much on the ground. Well worth the effort for cooling things off in flight here in the SE USA, though. I used one of these _http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5228&cs=1_ (http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?page=5228&cs=1) for my return air vent. I used the oval shaped one shown on this page. Mine is mounted in the lower part of the "D" panel. It looks nice, too. FWIW, LS, a major German glider manufacturer, recently released a return air modification designed to be used on their gliders that adds 2 full (measured) glide points in performance. This increase in performance is achieved because of the drag reduction this mod provides by channeling the exiting airflow from the cockpit through a low drag plenum. Haven't seen one yet, but one of our customers has ordered the mod and intends on having us install it once it arrives. Once I figure out what they are doing I'll report it to the group. My guess is they capture the air exiting the cockpit and duct it to exit the fuselage at a point where the air is disturbed (like at the wing root or near the tail wheel) This is a fairly common arrangement on racing sailplanes for reducing the overall drag picture. Apparently, allowing the cockpit air to find it's way out through the tail boom causes a lot of drag because of all the various bulkheads and assorted hardware it must pass through along the way. Regarding what Bud said about the nose gear hole, I built a removable fireproof bulkhead in my tunnel, aft of the nose gear hole, to allow the nose gear hole to be used for exit cooling flow as Bud describes. I'm running a Jabiru 3300 (not exactly known for being a cool running engine) and I've not had the issues others have had with cooling the Jab. The main issues with cooling I've had have had more to do with cooling balance from one side of the engine to the other, but I've got that sorted out now thanks to a variety of changes I've made in Jabiru's stock cooling set up. Even with the nose gear hole and a fixed pitch prop, I, too, can rip along at 140+ kts if I choose to do so. I sure hated to miss Rough River this year. I've been fighting a nasty ear infection for the past week. I seem to be on the mend now (finally) and I hope to be back in the air by the weekend. Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) N245E - Flying **************Psssst...Have you heard the news? There's a new fashion blog, plus the latest fall trends and hair styles at StyleList.com. (http://www.stylelist.com/trends?ncid=aolsty00050000000014) ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:56 AM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper Pete: It was not a question, but a "heads up" to others who may find the pin difficult to remove. The procedure http://www.europa-aircraft.biz/pdfs/modifications/Mod%2059.pdf involves using a spacer ring to push the bushing upward, in order to make room for the o-ring, by using the nose gear fork assembly as a pusher. In performing this operation that infamous pin would otherwise be in the way so is must be dealt with in some fashion. Covering the pin turned out to be much easier than removing it. And, yes, the pin is required in order for the shimmy damper to actually damp. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, CA Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Jeffers Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 2:07 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper Hi Rob, I know what you mean about trying to remove the pin that locates the the friction plate since I had to remove it to do a completely different job. I am rather confused however since in the instructions for Mod 59 that I followed there is no requirement to remove this pin anyway. In fact for the friction damper to continue working correctly this pin must most definitely remain in place. Somewhat confused by your question Pete Jeffers G-BVIZ 1300 hrs and climbing _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Housman Sent: 09 September 2008 21:49 Subject: Europa-List: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper This "highly recommended" mod is simplicity itself to install except for what we colonials would refer to as typical English understatement, when the procedure says to "remove the pin which locates into the friction plate" without any suggestion as to how to accomplish this. First, having assumed that a lack of guidance meant that the pin is easily removed, I tried to grip the pin with my fingers. OK, so the pin fits a bit snugly. Next I tried ordinary pliers. No success. Time to bring on the heavy lifting equipment in the form of those old reliable Vice-Grip pliers. Hmmm, that managed to damage the pin but it is still firmly in place. Now it was time to get a bit clever, so I drilled a hole in the pin and tapped it, put a stainless steel screw into the hole and pulled on it. Nothing moved, so it was time to start using some brute force, a jack screw. I fabricated a short tube that I put over the pin and used the screw to pull the pin against closed end of the tube. The screw broke. OK, no problem, just put a nut onto the screw to do the same thing. That pulled the remaining length of the screw out of the hole, stripping the threads in the pin which had still not moved one micron. With nothing left on which to grip the pin I finally got smart and fabricated a spacer to cover the pin. These Mods are such fun! Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, CA Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 9/9/2008 4:58 AM ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:40:16 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? After consulting with EA2004 about any possible strength issues (none), I built an air outlet vent on top of the fuselage behind the doors - see attached photo. This is a low pressure area. Under the fore part of this vent is a 2 inch hole through the fuselage. I built a sliding valve under the hole to partially or fully close the opening. I have, however, during two years of flying never adjusted this valve from full open, whether in summer time or during the winter, so I consider it unnecessary to have it. Air flow through the cockpit is instead controlled only by the fresh air or heater inlets (either ones always open to some extent). Svein LN-SKJ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:19 PM PST US From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Old Sarum Fly in REMINDER MessageIan, What state is the grass in ? Duncan do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: G-IANI To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 11:19 AM Subject: FW: Europa-List: Old Sarum Fly in REMINDER Old Sarum Europa Fly In Saturday September 13, 2008 Free Landing for Europas, Fuel available Come and meet the two resident Europas see Mod 64B (High Top with lowered cowl and bigger screen) Non Flying builders and potential owners Welcome This year we have invited the local Scouts and would hope to provide some air experience flights. (Pilots must have 100 hours and 25 on type) If you plan (weather permitting) to attend please contact Ian Rickard on 01483 714096 or e-mail (g-iani@ntlworld.com) By letting me know we can organise reserved Tables for Lunch (or Barbeque depending on numbers) Please indicate if you could provide an experience flight Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:02:13 PM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Europa-List: Keep on building! Builders (and those who are planning to build)! Today I performanced some X-country flying with my 88-years old uncle, who is a still operative hearth surgeon. We had 6 legs, all together 6 hrs 23 minutes and 804 nm, with an average speed 126 knots, total fuel consumption was 117 litres, TOW was near my MTOW 1450 lbs /658 kgs (we had some heavy tools w us). After we both feel very relaxed and my uncle stated if he were a young man again, flying should be a big part of his life. Tower men/women regularly call my Europa in radio "speedy little experimental". What a wonderful machine She is! Those who are building - keep on that mode with stamina - the fruit will be more than suberb. Raimo from Finland OH-XRT, 87 hrs & 187 monolandings. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:44 PM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Keep on building! Congratulations, Raimo, on the two page article (with photos) about your Europa in the latest EAA Sport Aviation magazine. Nice airplane! Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, CA Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 1:17 PM Subject: Europa-List: Keep on building! Builders (and those who are planning to build)! Today I performanced some X-country flying with my 88-years old uncle, who is a still operative hearth surgeon. We had 6 legs, all together 6 hrs 23 minutes and 804 nm, with an average speed 126 knots, total fuel consumption was 117 litres, TOW was near my MTOW 1450 lbs /658 kgs (we had some heavy tools w us). After we both feel very relaxed and my uncle stated if he were a young man again, flying should be a big part of his life. Tower men/women regularly call my Europa in radio "speedy little experimental". What a wonderful machine She is! Those who are building - keep on that mode with stamina - the fruit will be more than suberb. Raimo from Finland OH-XRT, 87 hrs & 187 monolandings. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? From: "Frans Veldman" [quote:9df425b733="g-iani"]Frans Karl has made reference to my vent mod. I have tidied up the documentation a little and it is attached. I do not suggest it is the right solution rather an experiment. So far I have not made the time to do any detailed measurements. -----[/quote:9df425b733] I like this mod. Looks like a low drag solution and very effective, provided that the stern post is a low pressure area indeed. I'm going to try this, if it doesn't work very well I have not made any modification to the exterior of the airplane, so I can easily undo it. It doesn't take much to implement this. Another mod could be to make this opening, but without the hose. This might reduce the pressure in the rear fuselage, keepiing the exhaust fumes away from the cockpit, and a vent in the D-panel will then also work better. Frans Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:38 PM PST US From: Rowland & Wilma Carson Subject: Europa-List: emergency exits [was: Re: Jos Okhuisen] At 2008-09-04 22:43 +0000 Duncan & Ami McFadyean wrote: >Regarding the RV that flipped on to its back at Fishburn recently, >the pilot commented that he would have preferred to have had a small >2lb axe to have been able to get out. It was the rescuers that >enabled exit through the broken canopy. He considered that the small >"lifesaver" hammers were a complete waste of time. Duncan - sorry to be so late responding to this - your mail was timestamped as 1988 which meant it was hidden behind a few thousand others in my mailbox; looks like you need to fix the date & time (and-or the keep-alive battery) on your machine. The lifesaver hammers are intended to break safety glass as found in cars; they are not designed to be effective on the acrylic transparencies typically found in light aeroplanes. The best way to break an acrylic window is to try drilling a hole in it and fitting a rivet! regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/ | 1110 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:12:17 PM PST US From: "Ray" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Old Sarum Fly in REMINDER Hi Duncan & Ami Re the airfield condition - No problems at all on Monday 8th when I flew from Fairoaks to Old Sarum in a tri gear Aero AT3. And the AT3 can be very fussy, unlike the Europa that I fly/travel right hand seat in (with Rick Morris G-RIKS). Ray Wren ---------------------------------------------- On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:05:52 +0100, "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" said: > MessageIan, > What state is the grass in ? > > Duncan > do not archive -- Ray raymondwren@fastmail.co.uk ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:22:30 PM PST US From: "Peter Zutrauen" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Keep on building! Wow, that works out to almost 36 miles/imperial gallon - impressive! (unless I made a mistake) That is an insparational story - maybe I *will* start putting those parts sitting in my garage into tighter formation this fall after all :-) (and I'm still eagerly awaiting my issue of Sport Aviation to envy Ramio's handywork) Cheers, Pete A239 (still just a pile of parts) On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote: > > Builders (and those who are planning to build)! > > Today I performanced some X-country flying with my 88-years old uncle, who > is a still operative hearth surgeon. > We had 6 legs, all together 6 hrs 23 minutes and 804 nm, with an average > speed 126 knots, total fuel consumption was 117 litres, TOW was near my MTOW > 1450 lbs /658 kgs (we had some heavy tools w us). > > After we both feel very relaxed and my uncle stated if he were a young man > again, flying should be a big part of his life. Tower men/women regularly > call my Europa in radio "speedy little experimental". What a wonderful > machine She is! > > Those who are building - keep on that mode with stamina - the fruit will be > more than suberb. > > Raimo from Finland > OH-XRT, 87 hrs & 187 monolandings. > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:40:42 PM PST US From: "Bob Berube" Subject: Europa-List: For Sale Europa Group, Flight Crafters has some items that have come up for sale. 914 Turbo Engine-10 hours total time....save thousands over current prices Mono Classic Kit, wings and control surfaces glassed, XS quick build cockpit module Please contact me by phone or off list for detailed information on the above items. Bob Berube Flight Crafters 40417 Chancey Rd. Unit 102 Zephyrhills, FL. 33542 813 779-1156 Office 813 695-1120 Cell ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:39 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: For Sale From: Fred Klein > Flight Crafters has some items that have come up for sale. > > 914 Turbo Engine-10 hours total time Hey Bob, Thanks for the post...and what price might that be? Any particulars as to completeness? Is there a Europa-mount? Exhaust? Fred -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:39:20 PM PST US From: "Ralph K. Hallett III" Subject: Re: Europa-List: emergency exits [was: Re: Jos Okhuisen] The AOPA seminar a few years back on how to survive a crash was great. They asked what the fire extinguisher was for and everyone gave the obvious question. The speaker said "no, it's useless for almost all fires you're likely to encounter in flight. Use it to spray on the plexiglass to freeze it and then use it to hammer your way out through the window". Rowland & Wilma Carson wrote: > > > At 2008-09-04 22:43 +0000 Duncan & Ami McFadyean wrote: > >> Regarding the RV that flipped on to its back at Fishburn recently, >> the pilot commented that he would have preferred to have had a small >> 2lb axe to have been able to get out. It was the rescuers that >> enabled exit through the broken canopy. He considered that the small >> "lifesaver" hammers were a complete waste of time. > > Duncan - sorry to be so late responding to this - your mail was > timestamped as 1988 which meant it was hidden behind a few thousand > others in my mailbox; looks like you need to fix the date & time > (and-or the keep-alive battery) on your machine. > > The lifesaver hammers are intended to break safety glass as found in > cars; they are not designed to be effective on the acrylic > transparencies typically found in light aeroplanes. The best way to > break an acrylic window is to try drilling a hole in it and fitting a > rivet! > > regards > > Rowland ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 10:47:16 PM PST US From: "Richard Sementilli" Subject: Re: Europa-List: For Sale Hi Bob, Just curious...how much for the engine? Best, Richard On 9/11/08, Bob Berube wrote: > > Europa Group, > > > Flight Crafters has some items that have come up for sale. > > > 914 Turbo Engine-10 hours total time=85=85=85=85save thou sands over > current prices > > > Mono Classic Kit, wings and control surfaces glassed, XS > quick build cockpit module > > > Please contact me by phone or off list for detailed information on the > above items. > > > Bob Berube > > Flight Crafters > > 40417 Chancey Rd. Unit 102 > > Zephyrhills, FL. 33542 > > 813 779-1156 Office > > 813 695-1120 Cell > > > * > =========== =========== =========== =========== > * > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:32:55 PM PST US From: "Steve Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? I have fitted Ian's mod and it also appears to work as I do not have the tugging shirtsleeves from the doors. My only comment about positioning is that if you go below the 'd' in the bulkhead, if you travel any distance with luggage this blocks the outlet. The positioning is a compromise. Steve Pitt G-SMDH ----- Original Message ----- From: "G-IANI" Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 10:51 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? > Frans > > Karl has made reference to my vent mod. I have tidied up the > documentation > a little and it is attached. I do not suggest it is the right solution > rather an experiment. So far I have not made the time to do any detailed > measurements. > > I have never detected air moving in or out round my door seals. > > Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours > Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) > e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk > or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans Veldman > Sent: 09 September 2008 22:56 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? > > --> > > Thanks for the answers. I'm building a tri-gear by the way. As air inputs > I > have a scoop in the top (in the closed position it is completely level > with > the fuselage), windows with a vent opening, and these ACS "ultimate vents" > just below the instrument panel. I guess this is enough for air vents. > > The general consensus seams to be that the doors will function as an air > exit. I'm not to happy with that, for I try to keep them into their > intended > shape (have some aluminium bar rivited in to discourage them from bulging > out) and using them as an exit will probably generate some noise. Good > idea > that the area above the wing will be low pressure, I could maybe make some > gills in the bagage bay just above the wing. Anything that enters via the > flap slots will find a quick way out then as well. > > Frans > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.