---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/11/08: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:17 AM - Re: Keep on building! (Kingsley Hurst) 2. 01:38 AM - Re: Old Sarum Fly in REMINDER (G-IANI) 3. 01:44 AM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (G-IANI) 4. 02:06 AM - Re: Keep on building! (Raimo Toivio) 5. 02:50 AM - Re: Keep on building! (William Harrison) 6. 03:03 AM - Jos is coming back! (Raimo Toivio) 7. 03:17 AM - Re: Keep on building! (Raimo Toivio) 8. 04:04 AM - Re: Keep on building! (Robert C Harrison) 9. 04:39 AM - Re: This gaping hole (nose gear) (Christoph Both) 10. 05:23 AM - Re: This gaping hole (nose gear) (ALAN YERLY) 11. 06:05 AM - Re: This gaping hole (nose gear) (ALAN YERLY) 12. 06:40 AM - Re: This gaping hole (nose gear) (Robert C Harrison) 13. 09:33 AM - Re: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper (Peter Jeffers) 14. 10:02 AM - Re: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper (Rob Housman) 15. 12:12 PM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (karelvranken) 16. 12:12 PM - Re: For Sale (bberube@tampabay.rr.com) 17. 01:21 PM - Re: This gaping hole (nose gear) (Frans Veldman) 18. 01:25 PM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (Frans Veldman) 19. 02:21 PM - Re: This gaping hole (nose gear) (Duncan & Ami McFadyean) 20. 02:33 PM - Re: Cabin vent - air outlet? (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 21. 02:59 PM - Re: This gaping hole (nose gear) (ALAN YERLY) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:17:02 AM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Keep on building! >What a wonderful machine She is! > > Those who are building - keep on that mode with stamina - the fruit will > be more than suberb. Raimo, Your enthusiasm is infectious. . . . I'm presently sanding, sanding and sanding in the hope that one day I will find out if you are telling the truth ! and guess what ? I am building up plenty of stamina in the meantime ! Best regards Kingsley in Oz do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:38:59 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Old Sarum Fly in REMINDER Over the winter the runway was moved South. This let the grass recover and they did a lot of filling and rolling. It has now been moved back to the original position and the hump on 24 has gone. It is much better than say Compton Abbas. Water wise OS drains very quickly so should be OK Saturday. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Duncan & Ami McFadyean Sent: 10 September 2008 20:06 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Old Sarum Fly in REMINDER Ian, What state is the grass in ? Duncan do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:09 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? Frans >I like this mod. Looks like a low drag solution and very effective, provided that the stern post is a low pressure area indeed. I'm going to try this, if it doesn't work very well I have not made any modification to the exterior of the airplane, so I can easily undo it. It doesn't take much to implement this.< Yes that was my thinking >Another mod could be to make this opening, but without the hose. This might reduce the pressure in the rear fuselage, keepiing the exhaust fumes away from the cockpit, and a vent in the D-panel will then also work better.< Yes we have tried this and it does make a difference. As I said we have not had time to do detailed measurements. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:06:14 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Keep on building! Thanks Pete and go to your shop! Do every single day or night something, even minor things! Keep on building mode! Soon it will be one of the most important things in your mind day and night. Like a positive drug - soon you cannot live with out it! (I tried but became very sick and my wife pushed me back to the workshop) Years will go and your baby will grow upp, step by step, almost by itself. Until one magic moment you will notice there is more already done than there is still left to do. 117 liters /804 nm (= 117 liters /1487 km) 26 imp g /923 miles 1 imp g /36 miles correct ./. That is also 7,7 liters /100 km which is like a small car w speed 60 mph = 96 kmh) Yes- it is extremely fun but also ecological and economical way to move from A to B. The most important factor for me is also its safety: I am out of those crowded narrow highways and streets which are full of other all-not-so-good-drivers. Among them there are also drunks and idiots and what so ever like slippery surface roadworks. When airborne - it depends you only (almost)! And airspace in Finland is almost unlimited. Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Zutrauen To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:21 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Keep on building! Wow, that works out to almost 36 miles/imperial gallon - impressive! (unless I made a mistake) That is an insparational story - maybe I *will* start putting those parts sitting in my garage into tighter formation this fall after all :-) (and I'm still eagerly awaiting my issue of Sport Aviation to envy Ramio's handywork) Cheers, Pete A239 (still just a pile of parts) On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote: Builders (and those who are planning to build)! Today I performanced some X-country flying with my 88-years old uncle, who is a still operative hearth surgeon. We had 6 legs, all together 6 hrs 23 minutes and 804 nm, with an average speed 126 knots, total fuel consumption was 117 litres, TOW was near my MTOW 1450 lbs /658 kgs (we had some heavy tools w us). After we both feel very relaxed and my uncle stated if he were a young man again, flying should be a big part of his life. Tower men/women regularly call my Europa in radio "speedy little experimental". What a wonderful machine She is! ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:50:24 AM PST US From: William Harrison Subject: Re: Europa-List: Keep on building! Golly, Raimo. Does your wife have any sisters? Willie On 11 Sep 2008, at 10:21, Raimo Toivio wrote: > Thanks Pete and go to your shop! > Do every single day or night something, even minor things! > Keep on building mode! > Soon it will be one of the most important things in your mind day > and night. > Like a positive drug - soon you cannot live with out it! > (I tried but became very sick and my wife pushed me back to the > workshop) > Years will go and your baby will grow upp, step by step, almost by > itself. > Until one magic moment you will notice there is more already done > than there is still left to do. > > 117 liters /804 nm (= 117 liters /1487 km) > > 26 imp g /923 miles > > 1 imp g /36 miles correct ./. > > That is also 7,7 liters /100 km which is like a small car w speed > 60 mph = 96 kmh) > > Yes- it is extremely fun but also ecological and economical way to > move from A to B. > The most important factor for me is also its safety: > I am out of those crowded narrow highways and streets > which are full of other all-not-so-good-drivers. Among them there > are also > drunks and idiots and what so ever like slippery surface roadworks. > When airborne - it depends you only (almost)! > And airspace in Finland is almost unlimited. > > Raimo > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Peter Zutrauen > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:21 AM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Keep on building! > > Wow, that works out to almost 36 miles/imperial gallon - > impressive! (unless I made a mistake) > > That is an insparational story - maybe I *will* start putting those > parts sitting in my garage into tighter formation this fall after > all :-) > > (and I'm still eagerly awaiting my issue of Sport Aviation to envy > Ramio's handywork) > > Cheers, > Pete > A239 > (still just a pile of parts) > > On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Raimo Toivio > wrote: > > > Builders (and those who are planning to build)! > > Today I performanced some X-country flying with my 88-years old > uncle, who is a still operative hearth surgeon. > We had 6 legs, all together 6 hrs 23 minutes and 804 nm, with an > average speed 126 knots, total fuel consumption was 117 litres, TOW > was near my MTOW 1450 lbs /658 kgs (we had some heavy tools w us). > > After we both feel very relaxed and my uncle stated if he were a > young man again, flying should be a big part of his life. Tower men/ > women regularly call my Europa in radio "speedy little > experimental". What a wonderful machine She is! > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http:// > www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http:// > forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/c > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:03:49 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Europa-List: Jos is coming back! All Joss recovery has been impressive and he is just NOW packing in Austria and will fly (by Finnair) to Helsinki today. Later he will move to his home Ivalo Lappland. He has decided to fly as a P1 again and I am sure he will do it. So - somebody there - do you have an extra plane or even Europa for Jos? ;) It is so lonely to have an only Europa in the country (one make one plane DOTHs). Raimo from Finland ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:17:25 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Keep on building! Only one brother sorry and even he married couple of weeks ago, sorry ;) Do you accept her (female) cousins? They are impressive with all the human factors out and in. Raimo do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: William Harrison To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 12:47 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Keep on building! Golly, Raimo. Does your wife have any sisters? Willie On 11 Sep 2008, at 10:21, Raimo Toivio wrote: Thanks Pete and go to your shop! Do every single day or night something, even minor things! Keep on building mode! Soon it will be one of the most important things in your mind day and night. Like a positive drug - soon you cannot live with out it! (I tried but became very sick and my wife pushed me back to the workshop) Years will go and your baby will grow upp, step by step, almost by itself. Until one magic moment you will notice there is more already done than there is still left to do. 117 liters /804 nm (= 117 liters /1487 km) 26 imp g /923 miles 1 imp g /36 miles correct ./. That is also 7,7 liters /100 km which is like a small car w speed 60 mph = 96 kmh) Yes- it is extremely fun but also ecological and economical way to move from A to B. The most important factor for me is also its safety: I am out of those crowded narrow highways and streets which are full of other all-not-so-good-drivers. Among them there are also drunks and idiots and what so ever like slippery surface roadworks. When airborne - it depends you only (almost)! And airspace in Finland is almost unlimited. Raimo ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Zutrauen To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 3:21 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Keep on building! Wow, that works out to almost 36 miles/imperial gallon - impressive! (unless I made a mistake) That is an insparational story - maybe I *will* start putting those parts sitting in my garage into tighter formation this fall after all :-) (and I'm still eagerly awaiting my issue of Sport Aviation to envy Ramio's handywork) Cheers, Pete A239 (still just a pile of parts) On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Raimo Toivio wrote: Builders (and those who are planning to build)! Today I performanced some X-country flying with my 88-years old uncle, who is a still operative hearth surgeon. We had 6 legs, all together 6 hrs 23 minutes and 804 nm, with an average speed 126 knots, total fuel consumption was 117 litres, TOW was near my MTOW 1450 lbs /658 kgs (we had some heavy tools w us). After we both feel very relaxed and my uncle stated if he were a young man again, flying should be a big part of his life. Tower men/women regularly call my Europa in radio "speedy little experimental". What a wonderful machine She is! href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ontribution ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:04:13 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Keep on building! Get in the queue, Willie ! I checked that out years ago ! Regards Bob H G-PTAG Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Harrison Sent: 11 September 2008 10:48 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Keep on building! Golly, Raimo. Does your wife have any sisters? Willie On 11 Sep 2008, at 10:21, Raimo Toivio wrote: Thanks Pete and go to your shop! Do every single day or night something, even minor things! Keep on building mode! ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:39:22 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: This gaping hole (nose gear) From: "Christoph Both" Hi Bud: Can you give, by any chance the order number of the Aircraft Spruce "firewall material"? There are several choices. Do you perhaps mean the Stainless Steel mat? 10. FIREWALL 2000 CERAMIC BLANKET This blanket is .250 inch thick, weighs only 9.5 oz/sq. ft. and is flexible enough to cover compound curves. The heat side of the blanket is covered with stainless steel, the other side is aluminum It is easy to rivet or can be glued into position. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/firewall2000.php - 1.0kb Christoph Both #223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia Canada From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ALAN YERLY Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 5:28 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: This gaping hole (nose gear) Frans, I didn't see anyone post an answer so take it from a guy who has built and flown a half dozen Tri=gears. The hole gives you 100 square inches of air exit, greatly improving cooling. Maintenance is a snap on the nose. Go to Aircraft Spruce and use the fire wall material kit to completely fireproof the opening. I use the firewall material and seal all the edges with stainless just to dress it up. As far as the speed penalty, if I can still get 140 kts with a 914 at 75% power at sea level with a tri-gear. I don't see a down side. I've flown other tri-gears with the standard firewall and they all have cooling issues and do not go any faster. As for me...Leave the hole and run cooler. Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations US Europa Dealer www.customflightcreations.com (813) 653-4989 ----- Original Message ----- From: Frans Veldman To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, September 05, 2008 11:57 AM Subject: Europa-List: This gaping hole (nose gear) frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl> I'm building a tri-gear, and cut out the bottom of the fuselage for the nose gear per instructions. Apparently, the idea in the manual is to leave it as is. What are the aerodynamic properties of this hole? is it sucking air out of the well, or is it building pressure? I just closed it, by installing a plate in the nose gear system. If the nose gear activates the spring, the plate opens with it since it is attached to the frame. Normally it just blocks off this hole. Of course I hope that it will be beneficial. Has someone else been closing this hole as well? If so, was it beneficial? Frans Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org nbsp; Features Chat, --> http://www.matron=================== === bsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com nbsp; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =============== ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:27 AM PST US From: "ALAN YERLY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: This gaping hole (nose gear) Frans, I understand your question now. I prefer to enclose the bottom, and make a convenient hole about 6X10 inches for access to the now empty wheel cavity. I have made many cockpit modules with access covers on the top and have still found an access hole in the bottom convenient for maintenance. Not to open a bucket of worms, some are concerned about cockpit stiffness in this area in the event of an accident, and my feeling is an enclosed bottom, reinforced with 1/8 inch foam and two additional layers of glass, is a light weight and strong reinforcement for forward cabin stiffness. Next, I prefer not excessively cut down the module as the center beam from the engine mount to the floor and sides is somewhat compromised in the event of a frontal accident. However, if you do, please do enclose the mono hole and consider extra glass on the flange for the cover and make the glass flow down the side of the module. I personally make the cover and flange of about 6 layers to ensure stiffness. I don't believe in just whacking out the cockpit module and letting the cockpit sides be your only longitudinal stiffness. The poor cockpit floor has to accept a lot of stress in the event of an off field landing in a tri-gear. As the nose wheel digs in, God forbid, the tendency of the nose to be bent down will buckle the floor with a cut down module. As for the firewall, it is time well spent to remove the stainless firewall and enclose the nose gear duct hole with a light ply bulkhead. The ply bulkhead will increase cockpit module stiffness in an accident (as stated above). Put fire shield in the top, back and sides and you can sleep easy. It makes for a cooler engine compartment, easier gear inspection and maintenance, and should you need to add a heater off your oil cooler, it is much easier access. Should you need quick access to tighten oil cooler lines or look for drips, it's a God send. Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations (813) 653-4989 ----- Original Message ----- From: Frans Veldman To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: This gaping hole (nose gear) > I was referring to the hole in the bottom. It appears you are talking about the hole between the nose gear and the engine, where we are supposed to install this stainless firewall thing. You didn't quite answer my question then, but introduced a new idea about leaving the firewall out and make a duct out of this well, is this correct? Too bad I just installed this stainless thing, AND closed the entire bottom of the tunnel section, including the part where the nosegear protrudes to the outside world... Frans Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:05:58 AM PST US From: "ALAN YERLY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: This gaping hole (nose gear) Chris, The kit below is just right for the Europa. Put the aluminum on the inside. I have used other mat insulations and covered it in stainless sheet. I'm really proud of the stainless one but at three days of cutting and fitting, I don't recommend it for those who want to save time. This kit allows you to put the 4 pieces in (2 sides, top and back). Put the back in first, then cut the sides and top. Ted Coberly of Flight Crafters showed me a trick of cutting the sheets 1/2 inch longer where they butt and then trim off the insulation and aluminum from the back where it overlaps and then wrapping the corners from the sides and top. Takes a lot more time and planning, but is pretty, and well sealed. Cut your stainless and make smooth round transitions from the hole to the fuselage bottom and cover the edges to show off your craftsmanship. Reference to A/C Spruce 5. FIREWALL 2000 KIT Contains 24 x48 sheet of Firewall 2000 and one tube of Firewall caulk. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/firewall2000kit.php - 0.6kb Bud Custom Flight Creations (813) 653-4989 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 06:40:38 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: This gaping hole (nose gear) Hi! Bud /Frans/all Since G-PTAG was built as a trike and a potential convertible Mono wheel later, I have made the bottom panel from the Mono Wheel Well into a belly plate fixed on flanges and removable but with a hinge across the aft 6" to access the wheel well and the fuel pipes, fuel switch and throttle/choke box. Onto the forward section of this belly plate I have mounted all the fuel module and two mini gascolators. All are now very accessible and the gascolators can be checked for water etc. Also the pumps can be heard from the P1 position as a verification both are running.....eventual mono wheel change ...not by me thanks!. Forward of the wheel well the trike manual calls for an additional firewall/panel to box out the wheel well void and suitable flanges need constructing to fix it in place. Regards Bob H -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ALAN YERLY Sent: 11 September 2008 13:22 Subject: Re: Europa-List: This gaping hole (nose gear) Frans, I understand your question now. I prefer to enclose the bottom, and make a convenient hole about 6X10 inches for access to the now empty wheel cavity. I have made many cockpit modules with access covers on the top and have still found an access hole in the bottom convenient for maintenance. Not to open a bucket of worms, some are concerned about cockpit stiffness in this area in the event of an accident, and my feeling is an enclosed bottom, reinforced with 1/8 inch foam and two additional layers of glass, is a light weight and strong reinforcement for forward cabin stiffness. Next, I prefer not excessively cut down the module as the center beam from the engine mount to the floor and sides is somewhat compromised in the event of a frontal accident. However, if you do, please do enclose the mono hole and consider extra glass on the flange for the cover and make the glass flow down the side of the module. I personally make the cover and flange of about 6 layers to ensure stiffness. I don't believe in just whacking out the cockpit module and letting the cockpit sides be your only longitudinal stiffness. The poor cockpit floor has to accept a lot of stress in the event of an off field landing in a tri-gear. As the nose wheel digs in, God forbid, the tendency of the nose to be bent down will buckle the floor with a cut down module. As for the firewall, it is time well spent to remove the stainless firewall and enclose the nose gear duct hole with a light ply bulkhead. The ply bulkhead will increase cockpit module stiffness in an accident (as stated above). Put fire shield in the top, back and sides and you can sleep easy. It makes for a cooler engine compartment, easier gear inspection and maintenance, and should you need to add a heater off your oil cooler, it is much easier access. Should you need quick access to tighten oil cooler lines or look for drips, it's a God send. Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations (813) 653-4989 ----- Original Message ----- From: Frans Veldman Sent: Tuesday, September 09, 2008 5:44 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: This gaping hole (nose gear) I was referring to the hole in the bottom. It appears you are talking about the hole between the nose gear and the engine, where we are supposed to install this stainless firewall thing. You didn't quite answer my question then, but introduced a new idea about leaving the firewall out and make a duct out of this well, is this correct? Too bad I just installed this stainless thing, AND closed the entire bottom of the tunnel section, including the part where the nosegear protrudes to the outside world... Frans Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org nbsp; Features Chat, --> http://www.matron====================== bsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c =============== ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:33:31 AM PST US From: "Peter Jeffers" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper Hi Rob, I Just put the spacer ring on top of the plastic friction disc (still fitted over the offending pin) and the pulled the bush up into its new position. Done !! Best regards Pete _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Housman Sent: 10 September 2008 15:58 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper Pete: It was not a question, but a "heads up" to others who may find the pin difficult to remove. The procedure http://www.europa-aircraft.biz/pdfs/modifications/Mod%2059.pdf involves using a spacer ring to push the bushing upward, in order to make room for the o-ring, by using the nose gear fork assembly as a pusher. In performing this operation that infamous pin would otherwise be in the way so is must be dealt with in some fashion. Covering the pin turned out to be much easier than removing it. And, yes, the pin is required in order for the shimmy damper to actually damp. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, CA Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Jeffers Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 2:07 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper Hi Rob, I know what you mean about trying to remove the pin that locates the the friction plate since I had to remove it to do a completely different job. I am rather confused however since in the instructions for Mod 59 that I followed there is no requirement to remove this pin anyway. In fact for the friction damper to continue working correctly this pin must most definitely remain in place. Somewhat confused by your question Pete Jeffers G-BVIZ 1300 hrs and climbing _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Housman Sent: 09 September 2008 21:49 Subject: Europa-List: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper This "highly recommended" mod is simplicity itself to install except for what we colonials would refer to as typical English understatement, when the procedure says to "remove the pin which locates into the friction plate" without any suggestion as to how to accomplish this. First, having assumed that a lack of guidance meant that the pin is easily removed, I tried to grip the pin with my fingers. OK, so the pin fits a bit snugly. Next I tried ordinary pliers. No success. Time to bring on the heavy lifting equipment in the form of those old reliable Vice-Grip pliers. Hmmm, that managed to damage the pin but it is still firmly in place. Now it was time to get a bit clever, so I drilled a hole in the pin and tapped it, put a stainless steel screw into the hole and pulled on it. Nothing moved, so it was time to start using some brute force, a jack screw. I fabricated a short tube that I put over the pin and used the screw to pull the pin against closed end of the tube. The screw broke. OK, no problem, just put a nut onto the screw to do the same thing. That pulled the remaining length of the screw out of the hole, stripping the threads in the pin which had still not moved one micron. With nothing left on which to grip the pin I finally got smart and fabricated a spacer to cover the pin. These Mods are such fun! Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, CA Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 9/9/2008 4:58 AM Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 6:00 AM ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:01 AM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper After seeing how little force (virtually none) was required to move the bushings it was clear that leaving the disc in place would have been fine. Too bad I didn't think of that at the time. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, CA Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Jeffers Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:27 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper Hi Rob, I Just put the spacer ring on top of the plastic friction disc (still fitted over the offending pin) and the pulled the bush up into its new position. Done !! Best regards Pete _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Housman Sent: 10 September 2008 15:58 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper Pete: It was not a question, but a "heads up" to others who may find the pin difficult to remove. The procedure http://www.europa-aircraft.biz/pdfs/modifications/Mod%2059.pdf involves using a spacer ring to push the bushing upward, in order to make room for the o-ring, by using the nose gear fork assembly as a pusher. In performing this operation that infamous pin would otherwise be in the way so is must be dealt with in some fashion. Covering the pin turned out to be much easier than removing it. And, yes, the pin is required in order for the shimmy damper to actually damp. Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, CA Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Jeffers Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 2:07 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper Hi Rob, I know what you mean about trying to remove the pin that locates the the friction plate since I had to remove it to do a completely different job. I am rather confused however since in the instructions for Mod 59 that I followed there is no requirement to remove this pin anyway. In fact for the friction damper to continue working correctly this pin must most definitely remain in place. Somewhat confused by your question Pete Jeffers G-BVIZ 1300 hrs and climbing _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Housman Sent: 09 September 2008 21:49 Subject: Europa-List: Mod 59 - Nose wheel shimmy damper This "highly recommended" mod is simplicity itself to install except for what we colonials would refer to as typical English understatement, when the procedure says to "remove the pin which locates into the friction plate" without any suggestion as to how to accomplish this. First, having assumed that a lack of guidance meant that the pin is easily removed, I tried to grip the pin with my fingers. OK, so the pin fits a bit snugly. Next I tried ordinary pliers. No success. Time to bring on the heavy lifting equipment in the form of those old reliable Vice-Grip pliers. Hmmm, that managed to damage the pin but it is still firmly in place. Now it was time to get a bit clever, so I drilled a hole in the pin and tapped it, put a stainless steel screw into the hole and pulled on it. Nothing moved, so it was time to start using some brute force, a jack screw. I fabricated a short tube that I put over the pin and used the screw to pull the pin against closed end of the tube. The screw broke. OK, no problem, just put a nut onto the screw to do the same thing. That pulled the remaining length of the screw out of the hole, stripping the threads in the pin which had still not moved one micron. With nothing left on which to grip the pin I finally got smart and fabricated a spacer to cover the pin. These Mods are such fun! Best regards, Rob Housman Irvine, CA Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 9/9/2008 4:58 AM Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 9/10/2008 6:00 AM ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:14 PM PST US From: "karelvranken" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? Svein, You say the area where you placed the outlet is a low pressure area. Are you sure? Did you measure that pressure? I think when the profile is diminishing the pressure raises. On that place I have an intake for ventilation and even in hot days I can't open fully the inlet because the windstream can't be endured for a long time. Regards, Karel Vranken. F-PKRL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 5:39 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? > After consulting with EA2004 about any possible strength issues (none), I > built an air outlet vent on top of the fuselage behind the doors - see > attached photo. This is a low pressure area. > > Under the fore part of this vent is a 2 inch hole through the fuselage. I > built a sliding valve under the hole to partially or fully close the > opening. I have, however, during two years of flying never adjusted this > valve from full open, whether in summer time or during the winter, so I > consider it unnecessary to have it. Air flow through the cockpit is > instead > controlled only by the fresh air or heater inlets (either ones always open > to some extent). > > Svein > LN-SKJ > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: For Sale From: bberube@tampabay.rr.com SGkgUmljaGFyZC4NCkkgdGhpbmsgbG93IHRvIG1pZCAyMCBzIHdvdWxkIGJ1eSBpdC4gIEhlIGlz IG9wZW4gdG8gb2ZmZXJzLiAgSWYgeW91IGFyZSBpbnRlcmVzdGVkLCBJIGNhbiBwdXQgeW91IGlu IHRvdWNoIHdpdGggaGltLg0KDQpCb2INClNlbnQgZnJvbSBteSBCbGFja0JlcnJ5riB3aXJlbGVz cyBoYW5kaGVsZA0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogIlJpY2hhcmQg U2VtZW50aWxsaSIgPHJzZW1lbnRpQGdtYWlsLmNvbT4NCg0KRGF0ZTogVGh1LCAxMSBTZXAgMjAw OCAxNDo0Mzo0NiANClRvOiA8ZXVyb3BhLWxpc3RAbWF0cm9uaWNzLmNvbT4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJl OiBFdXJvcGEtTGlzdDogRm9yIFNhbGUNCg0KDQpIaSBCb2IsDQpKdXN0IGN1cmlvdXMuLi5ob3cg bXVjaCBmb3IgdGhlIGVuZ2luZT8NCg0KQmVzdCwNClJpY2hhcmQNCg0KDQpPbiA5LzExLzA4LCBC b2IgQmVydWJlIDxiYmVydWJlQHRhbXBhYmF5LnJyLmNvbT4gd3JvdGU6DQo+DQo+ICBFdXJvcGEg R3JvdXAsDQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+IEZsaWdodCBDcmFmdGVycyBoYXMgc29tZSBpdGVtcyB0aGF0IGhh dmUgY29tZSB1cCBmb3Igc2FsZS4NCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIDkxNCBUdXJi byBFbmdpbmUtMTAgaG91cnMgdG90YWwgdGltZYWFhYVzYXZlIHRob3VzYW5kcyBvdmVyDQo+IGN1 cnJlbnQgcHJpY2VzDQo+DQo+DQo+DQo+ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBNb25vIENsYXNzaWMgS2l0 LCB3aW5ncyBhbmQgY29udHJvbCBzdXJmYWNlcyBnbGFzc2VkLCAgWFMNCj4gcXVpY2sgYnVpbGQg Y29ja3BpdCBtb2R1bGUNCj4NCj4NCj4NCj4gUGxlYXNlIGNvbnRhY3QgbWUgYnkgcGhvbmUgb3Ig b2ZmIGxpc3QgZm9yIGRldGFpbGVkIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIG9uIHRoZQ0KPiBhYm92ZSBpdGVtcy4N Cj4NCj4NCj4NCj4gQm9iIEJlcnViZQ0KPg0KPiBGbGlnaHQgQ3JhZnRlcnMNCj4NCj4gNDA0MTcg Q2hhbmNleSBSZC4gICBVbml0IDEwMg0KPg0KPiBaZXBoeXJoaWxscywgRkwuIDMzNTQyDQo+DQo+ IDgxMyA3NzktMTE1NiAgT2ZmaWNlDQo+DQo+IDgxMyA2OTUtMTEyMCAgQ2VsbA0KPg0KPg0KPg0K Pg0KPg0KPiAqDQo+DQo9PT09PT09PT09PT0NCj09PT09PT09PT09PQ0KPT09PT09PT09PT09DQo9 PT09PT09PT09PT0NCj4gKg0KPg0KPg0KDQo ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:21:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: This gaping hole (nose gear) From: "Frans Veldman" [quote:263eb5746d="Bud Yerly"] Frans, I understand your question now. Not to open a bucket of worms, some are concerned about cockpit stiffness in this area in the event of an accident, and my feeling is an enclosed bottom, reinforced with 1/8 inch foam and two additional layers of glass, is a light weight and strong reinforcement for forward cabin stiffness. Next, I prefer not excessively cut down the module as the center beam from the engine mount to the floor and sides is somewhat compromised in the event of a frontal accident. [/quote:263eb5746d] I'm not cutting down the cockpit module, I leave it as is. I was talking about the hole where the nose gears exits the bottom, and the hole you need to have to allow the gear to extent if the spring (or bungee) stretches. I closed it, by glassing some plywood under the nosegear assembly. If the spring stretches, it opens together with the nosewheel frame. Having made this, I wonder if others have also gone this route, and whether it indeed is beneficial to do so. The down side is that your solution, to extent the engine bay in the nosehweel area, and use the hole as an air exit, is no longer possible. Nice solution by the way! I now have the metal firewall in place (its original place) but since I'm going to redesign the lower cowling anyway it doesn't matter to much. BTW I'm going to use a propellor with more twist. Besides giving a better cruise economy, it also provides better cooling. Hope that this will be enough cooling. Frans Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:25:27 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? From: "Frans Veldman" I have fitted Ian's mod and it also appears to work as I do not have the tugging shirtsleeves from the doors. My only comment about positioning is that if you go below the 'd' in the bulkhead, if you travel any distance with luggage this blocks the outlet. The positioning is a compromise. Steve Pitt G-SMDH -----[/quote:67f80f7028] I was thinking about putting it in the top of the bulkhead. As I have a hi-top, there is excess space above this 'D'. Frans Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:21:20 PM PST US From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: This gaping hole (nose gear) <<> BTW I'm going to use a propellor with more twist.>> Which one and how much twist does it have? Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frans Veldman" Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:20 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: This gaping hole (nose gear) > > > [quote:263eb5746d="Bud Yerly"] Frans, I understand your > question now. > > Not to open a bucket of worms, some are concerned about cockpit stiffness > in this area in the event of an accident, and my feeling is an enclosed > bottom, reinforced with 1/8 inch foam and two additional layers of glass, > is a light weight and strong reinforcement for forward cabin stiffness. > Next, I prefer not excessively cut down the module as the center beam from > the engine mount to the floor and sides is somewhat compromised in the > event of a frontal accident. > [/quote:263eb5746d] > > I'm not cutting down the cockpit module, I leave it as is. I was talking > about the hole where the nose gears exits the bottom, and the hole you > need to have to allow the gear to extent if the spring (or bungee) > stretches. I closed it, by glassing some plywood under the nosegear > assembly. If the spring stretches, it opens together with the nosewheel > frame. > > Having made this, I wonder if others have also gone this route, and > whether it indeed is beneficial to do so. > > The down side is that your solution, to extent the engine bay in the > nosehweel area, and use the hole as an air exit, is no longer possible. > Nice solution by the way! > I now have the metal firewall in place (its original place) but since I'm > going to redesign the lower cowling anyway it doesn't matter to much. > > BTW I'm going to use a propellor with more twist. Besides giving a better > cruise economy, it also provides better cooling. Hope that this will be > enough cooling. > > Frans > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:25 PM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? Karel, No, I have not measured the pressure, I relied on what EA2004 said also about the pressure in this area. I think they were correct, because the air speed over the top is higher than the airplane's speed through the ambient air and hence the pressure is lower than the ambient pressure (compare the fuselage profile to a wing profile - higher speed hence lower pressure on top of the wing). All I can say for sure is that the pressure at my vent outlet is lower than in the cockpit, because air goes out through that vent (I can feel the air flow by holding my hand under the outlet opening). The air pressure in the cockpit may be higher than ambient, though, because of the efficient NACA intakes on both sides (built as per Europa standard). If air comes in through your vent, it must mean that your cocpit pressure is lower than at your top vent opening. Where does this air leave your cockpit? Svein ----- Original Message ----- From: "karelvranken" Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 9:11 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin vent - air outlet? > > > Svein, > You say the area where you placed the outlet is a low pressure area. Are > you sure? Did you measure that pressure? I think when the profile is > diminishing the pressure raises. On that place I have an intake for > ventilation and even in hot days I can't open fully the inlet because the > windstream can't be endured for a long time. > Regards, > Karel Vranken. F-PKRL ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:42 PM PST US From: "ALAN YERLY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: This gaping hole (nose gear) Keep on working, as a change in the cowl to increase outflow will negate the need for the hole. Bud Custom Flight Creations (813) 653-4989 ----- Original Message ----- From: Frans Veldman To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 11, 2008 4:20 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: This gaping hole (nose gear) > [quote:263eb5746d="Bud Yerly"] Frans, I understand your question now. Not to open a bucket of worms, some are concerned about cockpit stiffness in this area in the event of an accident, and my feeling is an enclosed bottom, reinforced with 1/8 inch foam and two additional layers of glass, is a light weight and strong reinforcement for forward cabin stiffness. Next, I prefer not excessively cut down the module as the center beam from the engine mount to the floor and sides is somewhat compromised in the event of a frontal accident. [/quote:263eb5746d] I'm not cutting down the cockpit module, I leave it as is. I was talking about the hole where the nose gears exits the bottom, and the hole you need to have to allow the gear to extent if the spring (or bungee) stretches. I closed it, by glassing some plywood under the nosegear assembly. If the spring stretches, it opens together with the nosewheel frame. Having made this, I wonder if others have also gone this route, and whether it indeed is beneficial to do so. The down side is that your solution, to extent the engine bay in the nosehweel area, and use the hole as an air exit, is no longer possible. Nice solution by the way! I now have the metal firewall in place (its original place) but since I'm going to redesign the lower cowling anyway it doesn't matter to much. BTW I'm going to use a propellor with more twist. Besides giving a better cruise economy, it also provides better cooling. Hope that this will be enough cooling. Frans Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.