Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:26 AM - 2 Andair Gascolators (flying farmer)
2. 02:03 AM - Wing tie bar and (tri) landing gear (William Daniell)
3. 02:13 AM - Re: 2 Andair Gascolators (craig bastin)
4. 05:20 AM - Re: Filling - Control surfaces (h&jeuropa)
5. 07:09 AM - Re: Filling - Control surfaces (Jeff B)
6. 07:15 AM - Re: Wing tie bar and (tri) landing gear (Jeff B)
7. 08:05 AM - Re: Filling - Control surfaces (Fred Klein)
8. 08:12 AM - Re: Filling - Control surfaces (Fred Klein)
9. 09:04 AM - Re: 2 Andair Gascolators (flying farmer)
10. 09:16 AM - Re: Filling - Control surfaces (Jeff B)
11. 12:42 PM - Re: Wing tie bar and (tri) landing gear (Richard Collings)
12. 06:48 PM - Filling Tips (Martin Tuck)
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| Subject: | 2 Andair Gascolators |
UK builders,
Has any UK builders used, 2 Andair Gascolators on the Suction side of the fuel
system, (directly after the fuel tanks, before the fuel valve)? If so I would
be interested in any info. and any Mod applications. I hope you can Help.
ThanX In Advance
Richard
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4525#204525
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| Subject: | Wing tie bar and (tri) landing gear |
I am in the process of doing the wing tie bar.
I followed the book religiously and note that it tells you to put in the
gear legs and the ribs that support them.
Two questions
1. how do you deal with the tie bar and the gear support ribs. The manual
tells you to allow for the tie bar with an angled depression in the ribs.
Does this weaken the uni which goes along the top of the ribs? Also there
does seem to be enough space to angle the rib around the tie bar.
2. the ply block between the cockpit module and the tie bar has to be
fiberglassed to the cockpit module - after the gear legs. So I am assuming
that the bid goes over and wrapped around the gear legs. Am I right?
How did anyone else do this?
Will
PS I note with slight worry that the rear wing attachment pin is vertical
with respect to the wing chord but not with respect to the fuse. Is this
all right?
Checked by AVG.
07:16
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| Subject: | 2 Andair Gascolators |
I have two, they are not andair's but yes i have one plumbed to main and one
to reserve before the selector
that way a switch to reserve ( which is standard op procedure for most if
engine is running rough) means
a new gascolator as well, if you look through the archives this has been
discussed at quite some length
hope this helps
I can send some pics direct if you like
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of flying
farmer
Sent: Tuesday, 16 September 2008 5:25 PM
Subject: Europa-List: 2 Andair Gascolators
<rpwheelwright@yahoo.co.uk>
UK builders,
Has any UK builders used, 2 Andair Gascolators on the Suction side of the
fuel system, (directly after the fuel tanks, before the fuel valve)? If so I
would be interested in any info. and any Mod applications. I hope you can
Help.
ThanX In Advance
Richard
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4525#204525
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
6:49 PM
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| Subject: | Re: Filling - Control surfaces |
Hi Fred,
Jeff is right, we used expancel just as he said.
One caution is that, if you are seeing gloss in the micro, it may be too wet (too
much epoxy).
We found a "formula" so all of our batches were consistent (marked a line on the
mixing cup 1 1/3 inches high, then added 5 full mixing cups of expancel). It
is amazing how much expancel you can work in!
We let the mixed epoxy sit 5 minutes to let air bubbles dissipate before mixing
in expancel. We gradually add expancel until there is no gloss. Work it on
a plywood board with a large spreader to mix thoroughly and work out any air.
We often added a bit more expancel at this point to take out the gloss.
We put a very light coat of pure epoxy on the part before spreading the filler
(dipped an old sock or lint free cloth to just get it damp, then rubbed the part
with it).
Hope that helps,
Jim & Heather Butcher
N241BW
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4539#204539
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| Subject: | Re: Filling - Control surfaces |
Fred, I'm with Jeff on this. Apply it thick and sand it once. Be sure
to allow adequate time for the expand cell mix to cure, before sanding.
It sands very easily, once it is completely set. 2 or 3 days should
do it...
Jeff - Baby Blue
Back in the air, once more... :)
JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
>
> Hi Fred,
> I'm sure others will chime in but my two cents are this. Yes you may be
> over complicating it. I tried the dry micro in some areas and found it
> to be too much epoxy or too hard to sand compared to the structure or
> the expancel. After several attempts such as you are doing I just
> resigned to roughing everything and applying the expancel thick. Then
> blocking it all back down with a large block. In the long run it was
> easier. I can't speak for the Super Fill but others I know love the
> stuff. For me it was just economics and I had plenty of the expancel so
> I used it.
> Put it on thick so only one application is needed. Block it down till
> you just start to see the weave in spots. If you have any low areas hit
> them again with a light sand and more fill. Mixing micro with other fill
> material will only cause more work as they sand at different rates. I
> hope this helps.
>
> Best Regards,
> Jeff R.
> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 150 hours and climbing slowly.
>
>
>
> On Sep 15, 2008, at 6:47 PM, Fred Klein wrote:
>
>>
>> Say guys...if you can take a walk down memory lane with me for a few
>> moments, I'd appreciate some feedback.
>>
>> The other day, while looking for trouble (i.e., a reasonable next step
>> in my build) I set myself up to skim some dry micro to fill the
>> trailing edge depressions where the top and bottom skins are bonded
>> together, thinking that it would be just an afternoon's job which,
>> after cure, would be followed by some block sanding to knock down the
>> high spots, and followed by the application of filler over the entire
>> panels (flaps, ailerons, and trim tabs) to cover the weave. (For this,
>> I'm planning on using Poly-Fiber's SuperFil rather than Expancel.)
>>
>> What I've found however, is that filling those depressions is a bit
>> more of a job than I'd anticipated. Notwithstanding using what I
>> thought was the stiffest possible mix of micro, I find myself with
>> numerous low spots thus requiring 2nd and in some cases 3rd
>> applications of the micro in order to bring those trailing edge
>> depressions up to the plane of the airfoils. Between coats, I've used
>> small bits of 150 grit sandpaper around a forefinger so that the
>> subsequent coat of micro would have a better bond than to simply apply
>> it over the (glossy) low areas. I've been working under the assumption
>> that these trailing edges must be dealt with completely before
>> squeegying on the filler to fill the glass weave over the foam.
>>
>> I've also been careful when knocking down the high spots to not abrade
>> the glass fibers on adjacent areas.
>>
>> Given that each surface has two sides and I've found that the micro
>> must be applied separately to each side (in multiple coats w/
>> intervening cure cycles), at this point I'm sitting here wondering:
>>
>> - Have I made this more complicated than it need be?
>>
>> - Am I missing something here?
>>
>> Lookin for either reassurance or a cautionary "heads up",
>>
>> Fred
>> A194
>>
>>
>> --
>> This message has been scanned for viruses and
>> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
>> believed to be clean.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tie bar and (tri) landing gear |
Will, you will have to trim down the forward braces to accommodate the
tie bar. Easiest way would be to start by glassing in one of the rear
braces, to hold the LG socket secure, then fit the remaining braces,
making allowances for the tie bar, before glassing them into place.
This will still produce a very strong LG.
Good luck and keep everyone informed of your progress...
Jeff - Baby Blue
Flying again...
William Daniell wrote:
>
> I am in the process of doing the wing tie bar.
>
> I followed the book religiously and note that it tells you to put in the
> gear legs and the ribs that support them.
>
> Two questions
>
> 1. how do you deal with the tie bar and the gear support ribs. The manual
> tells you to allow for the tie bar with an angled depression in the ribs.
> Does this weaken the uni which goes along the top of the ribs? Also there
> does seem to be enough space to angle the rib around the tie bar.
> 2. the ply block between the cockpit module and the tie bar has to be
> fiberglassed to the cockpit module - after the gear legs. So I am assuming
> that the bid goes over and wrapped around the gear legs. Am I right?
>
> How did anyone else do this?
>
> Will
>
> PS I note with slight worry that the rear wing attachment pin is vertical
> with respect to the wing chord but not with respect to the fuse. Is this
> all right?
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 07:16
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>
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| Subject: | Re: Filling - Control surfaces |
On Tuesday, Sep 16, 2008, at 07:08 US/Pacific, Jeff B wrote:
> Fred, I'm with Jeff on this. Apply it thick and sand it once. Be
> sure to allow adequate time for the expand cell mix to cure, before
> sanding. It sands very easily, once it is completely set. 2 or 3
> days should do it...
--
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| Subject: | Re: Filling - Control surfaces |
> Fred, I'm with Jeff on this. Apply it thick and sand it once. Be
> sure to allow adequate time for the expand cell mix to cure, before
> sanding. It sands very easily, once it is completely set. 2 or 3
> days should do it...
>
> Jeff - Baby Blue
> Back in the air, once more... :)
>
> JEFF ROBERTS wrote: I'm sure others will chime in but my two cents are
> this. Yes you may be over complicating it.
Thanks Jeffs...nough said. BTW, Good to hear from you Jeff B...hope
it's stopped blowin and rainin down your way!
Fred
--
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| Subject: | Re: 2 Andair Gascolators |
Craig
Thank You for the reply. I would be grateful for any photos you may have to
show how you put it together. Do you have some form of shut off valve before the
gascolators for servicing the filters? and what pluming did you use? My e-mail
is
rpwheelwright@yahoo.co.uk
Thank you again.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 4595#204595
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| Subject: | Re: Filling - Control surfaces |
Fred, We're getting back to normal around here, but the big news is
that Baby Blue is up again... ;) I'll elaborate more when I have a
chance to sit down and write it up...
Jeff - Baby Blue
Fred Klein wrote:
>
>
>> Fred, I'm with Jeff on this. Apply it thick and sand it once. Be
>> sure to allow adequate time for the expand cell mix to cure, before
>> sanding. It sands very easily, once it is completely set. 2 or 3
>> days should do it...
>>
>> Jeff - Baby Blue
>> Back in the air, once more... :)
>>
>> JEFF ROBERTS wrote: I'm sure others will chime in but my two cents are
>> this. Yes you may be over complicating it.
>
> Thanks Jeffs...nough said. BTW, Good to hear from you Jeff B...hope it's
> stopped blowin and rainin down your way!
>
> Fred
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Wing tie bar and (tri) landing gear |
Hi I was advised by Nevel Ayres to first complete the reinforcement of the
cockpit on both sides, then cut and shape the 4 ribs for each undercarriage
leg using some stiff cardboard to make templates. And then cut the top of
the one rib on each side lower than the others so that it just clears under
the tie bar when fitted. The final stage where you cover the top of all the
ribs with uni is extremely difficult if there are too many curves for the
uni to be wrapped round.
When you have completed the installation of the ribs [About 40hrs work]you
can move on to fitting the tie bar blocks and the tie bar.
----- Original Message -----
From: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 9:59 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Wing tie bar and (tri) landing gear
>
> I am in the process of doing the wing tie bar.
>
> I followed the book religiously and note that it tells you to put in the
> gear legs and the ribs that support them.
>
> Two questions
>
> 1. how do you deal with the tie bar and the gear support ribs. The
> manual
> tells you to allow for the tie bar with an angled depression in the ribs.
> Does this weaken the uni which goes along the top of the ribs? Also there
> does seem to be enough space to angle the rib around the tie bar.
> 2. the ply block between the cockpit module and the tie bar has to be
> fiberglassed to the cockpit module - after the gear legs. So I am
> assuming
> that the bid goes over and wrapped around the gear legs. Am I right?
>
> How did anyone else do this?
>
> Will
>
> PS I note with slight worry that the rear wing attachment pin is vertical
> with respect to the wing chord but not with respect to the fuse. Is this
> all right?
>
> Checked by AVG.
> 07:16
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
7:16 AM
Message 12
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Hi Folks,
Reading all the recent advice on filling the flying surfaces I wanted to
mention a method I used which seems to have been overlooked. It saves
having to 'slap on' filler only to sand it back off again and provides a
nice even thickness with which to start the sanding.
The method is to use a pair of fishing lines (I think I used 100 lb
breaking strain but it was about 0.020" dia.). Use weights at either end
to drap them over the surface and space them about 10 inches apart like
a couple of tram lines. Slap on the filler (and if it turns out shiny
you need more filler in the mix) between the tramlines and then using a
wide spackle knife or straight edge run it along the tram lines to
spread the filler. You should end up with a 0.020' thickness of filler.
Lift up one line and place it 10 inches from the other and continue the
process all the way down the surface being filled.
Now when you lift up the lines you will be left with a line of no filler
when the fishing line was but a quick run over with the spackle knife
you can force just enough down to fill the gap.
For sanding, I started with 60 grit and worked my way down to 100 then 160.
Avoid adding more filler on top of previously cured filler as you will
make it difficult to get an even surface presumably because of
variations in hardness of the filler mix.
Brings back happy memories! :-)
Martin Tuck
Europa N152MT
Wichita, Kansas
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