---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 09/17/08: 4 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:05 AM - Re: Filling Tips (Tony Wickens) 2. 02:34 AM - Re: Filling Tips (David Joyce) 3. 04:22 AM - Hangarage at Gloucester (David Joyce) 4. 04:32 AM - Re: Filling Tips (Christoph Both) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:05:35 AM PST US From: "Tony Wickens" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Filling Tips Hi All I am filling at the moment, just to make all of you that have been through it envious! I have tried the fishing line method but found that second and third applications were necessary to deal with low areas. Of course, hot wiring rules apply in terms of Burt Rutan's 'talking numbers'. That is the spline has to be non flexible and the angle has to be kept parallel to the line of the curvature. Brian Davies came around and said that he used the lay it on thick and sand it back once method and I have found that this works better for me. The only issue with blocking back, apart from avoiding cutting into the fiber glass is not to put too much heat into the component. Getting the mixture dry enough (using expancel) I have also found difficult. I will try the system described in Jim and Heather Butcher's recent e-mail, particularly working it on a board with a spreader and the smear of resin should help the interface adhesion. It is worth a try The trouble is that by the time you are getting proficient the job is finished. My respect grows for all you Classic builders and I am careful not to winge on about filling and rubbing down in their company Thanks for all the useful and interesting inputs Tony Wickens XS Kit 353 Martin Tuck wrote> > The method is to use a pair of fishing lines (I think I used 100 lb > breaking strain but it was about 0.020" dia.). Use weights at either end > to drap them over the surface and space them about 10 inches apart like a > couple of tram lines. Slap on the filler (and if it turns out shiny you > need more filler in the mix) between the tramlines and then using a wide > spackle knife or straight edge run it along the tram lines to spread the > filler. You should end up with a 0.020' thickness of filler. Lift up one > line and place it 10 inches from the other and continue the process all > the way down the surface being filled. > > Now when you lift up the lines you will be left with a line of no filler > when the fishing line was but a quick run over with the spackle knife you > can force just enough down to fill the gap. > > For sanding, I started with 60 grit and worked my way down to 100 then > 160. > > Avoid adding more filler on top of previously cured filler as you will > make it difficult to get an even surface presumably because of variations > in hardness of the filler mix. > > Brings back happy memories! :-) > > Martin Tuck > Europa N152MT > Wichita, Kansas > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:34:30 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Filling Tips Tony, I found the fishing line method worked well for me, although I used multiple lines at roughly 8in spacing. Also the smear of neat resin to wet the cloth before applying the filler helped. Then the critical factor is getting the consistency of the filler just right, not so wet that it ran and not so dry that it wouldn't spread nicely. Best of luck, David Joyce ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Wickens" Sent: Wednesday, September 17, 2008 10:03 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Filling Tips > > > Hi All > I am filling at the moment, just to make all of you that have been through > it envious! I have tried the fishing line method but found that second and > third applications were necessary to deal with low areas. Of course, hot > wiring rules apply in terms of Burt Rutan's 'talking numbers'. That is the > spline has to be non flexible and the angle has to be kept parallel to the > line of the curvature. > Brian Davies came around and said that he used the lay it on thick and > sand it back once method and I have found that this works better for me. > The only issue with blocking back, apart from avoiding cutting into the > fiber glass is not to put too much heat into the component. > Getting the mixture dry enough (using expancel) I have also found > difficult. I will try the system described in Jim and Heather Butcher's > recent e-mail, particularly working it on a board with a spreader and the > smear of resin should help the interface adhesion. It is worth a try > The trouble is that by the time you are getting proficient the job is > finished. My respect grows for all you Classic builders and I am careful > not to winge on about filling and rubbing down in their company > Thanks for all the useful and interesting inputs > Tony Wickens > XS Kit 353 > > Martin Tuck wrote> >> The method is to use a pair of fishing lines (I think I used 100 lb >> breaking strain but it was about 0.020" dia.). Use weights at either end >> to drap them over the surface and space them about 10 inches apart like a >> couple of tram lines. Slap on the filler (and if it turns out shiny you >> need more filler in the mix) between the tramlines and then using a wide >> spackle knife or straight edge run it along the tram lines to spread the >> filler. You should end up with a 0.020' thickness of filler. Lift up one >> line and place it 10 inches from the other and continue the process all >> the way down the surface being filled. >> >> Now when you lift up the lines you will be left with a line of no filler >> when the fishing line was but a quick run over with the spackle knife you >> can force just enough down to fill the gap. >> >> For sanding, I started with 60 grit and worked my way down to 100 then >> 160. >> >> Avoid adding more filler on top of previously cured filler as you will >> make it difficult to get an even surface presumably because of variations >> in hardness of the filler mix. >> >> Brings back happy memories! :-) >> >> Martin Tuck >> Europa N152MT >> Wichita, Kansas >> >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:22:36 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Europa-List: Hangarage at Gloucester Should anyone be looking for hangarage in the Gloucester area, a couple of spaces have just become available in the Firfax hangar, north side at Staverton,due to a flying school folding. The set up is very user friendly and the rates competitive. More info from me or contact the owner, Richard Smith at Firfax Systems, tel 01452 717800 Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:37 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Filling Tips From: "Christoph Both" Hi Tony: I am a Classic builder about to complete this part of the building. What I found most helpful: KEEP IT as SIMPLE and effective as possible, especially if you have a Classic. Invest into the best tools and components, use them right and you get excellent results: - Lightweight epoxy filler is readily available (SuperFill or Aeropoxy Light) - Put it on once and sufficiently thick and then block it down to the proper profile the first time. Very little needs to be re-filled the second time because it is in this multiple later fillings where you are going to spend a lot of your time. This stuff is very easy to work with and I find both products easy to sand back with excellent predictability. -Use the highest quality professional grade sanding paper (no-fill grade). You get this only at auto body shop suppliers, NOT the local home hardware store. Everything else scratches your hard won smoothness at every step up. -Use a large sandpaper sheet size block with the sheet attached with carpet tape works well. -Do not be tempted to use machine help until you really have experience and know what you are doing. Character is built through hand work... -The filling step can be one of the most expensive if you consider giving your bird to a professional auto body shop to bring it up to their professional pre-painting standards. I was quoted a full week of work at $40/hour= $1,600 just for that step alone. You will not believe how much of the actual fuselage will actually need filling to come out looking good especially if you have an older non-clear coated fuselage (mine). So, the 4-6 gallons of filler are well spent investment. -Consider doing the UV protection and priming yourself, with your own hands and a roller in hand: UV Smooth Prime allows this without all the bad toxicity so you can do it at home in your own garage. A gallon will do most of the airplane. You need to sand it back to professional grade but remember, they charge you $40/hr for this, so you can really save money here. Around wind shields consider the pro job doing a final pass with Epoxy primer. it sticks better to the acrylic. -Finally save some of the saved money at the final step where it really counts: painting is an acquired skill. Unless you feel confident doing it yourself and dealing with the requirements of dealing with toxic paints, let a professional painter do the final prep and final coat. They use those toxic materials every day and will reward all your work with a professional finish which would take you many airplanes to achieve. - Have a professional doing it all for you can cost you over $10,000. Doing the important parts yourself will cut this in half, or less. Christoph Both #223 Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Tony Wickens Sent: Wed 9/17/2008 6:03 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Filling Tips Hi All I am filling at the moment, just to make all of you that have been through it envious! I have tried the fishing line method but found that second and third applications were necessary to deal with low areas. Of course, hot wiring rules apply in terms of Burt Rutan's 'talking numbers'. That is the spline has to be non flexible and the angle has to be kept parallel to the line of the curvature. Brian Davies came around and said that he used the lay it on thick and sand it back once method and I have found that this works better for me. The only issue with blocking back, apart from avoiding cutting into the fiber glass is not to put too much heat into the component. Getting the mixture dry enough (using expancel) I have also found difficult. I will try the system described in Jim and Heather Butcher's recent e-mail, particularly working it on a board with a spreader and the smear of resin should help the interface adhesion. It is worth a try The trouble is that by the time you are getting proficient the job is finished. My respect grows for all you Classic builders and I am careful not to winge on about filling and rubbing down in their company Thanks for all the useful and interesting inputs Tony Wickens XS Kit 353 Martin Tuck wrote> > The method is to use a pair of fishing lines (I think I used 100 lb > breaking strain but it was about 0.020" dia.). Use weights at either end > to drap them over the surface and space them about 10 inches apart like a > couple of tram lines. Slap on the filler (and if it turns out shiny you > need more filler in the mix) between the tramlines and then using a wide > spackle knife or straight edge run it along the tram lines to spread the > filler. You should end up with a 0.020' thickness of filler. Lift up one > line and place it 10 inches from the other and continue the process all > the way down the surface being filled. > > Now when you lift up the lines you will be left with a line of no filler > when the fishing line was but a quick run over with the spackle knife you > can force just enough down to fill the gap. > > For sanding, I started with 60 grit and worked my way down to 100 then > 160. > > Avoid adding more filler on top of previously cured filler as you will > make it difficult to get an even surface presumably because of variations > in hardness of the filler mix. > > Brings back happy memories! :-) > > Martin Tuck > Europa N152MT > Wichita, Kansas > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.