Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 08:48 AM - Woodcomp SR 2000 for sale, or free to a good home (david miller)
2. 10:38 AM - Re: Filling Tips (Graham Singleton)
3. 11:08 AM - Finishing tips (Jerry Rehn)
4. 12:08 PM - Re: Woodcomp SR 2000 for sale, or free to a good home (Paul McAllister)
5. 01:40 PM - Re: Filling Tips (Ralph K. Hallett III)
6. 01:55 PM - XS Trailer (Mike Gamble)
7. 02:09 PM - Re: Woodcomp SR 2000 for sale, or free to a good home (david miller)
8. 02:39 PM - Re: XS Trailer (Jerry Rehn)
9. 03:33 PM - Re: Finishing tips (JR Gowing)
10. 05:53 PM - Re: Finishing tips (Jan de Jong)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Woodcomp SR 2000 for sale, or free to a good home |
All,
I've given up on ever getting my problems with this prop sorted by
Woodcomp.
They started when the motor came loose, the replacement motor
supplied by the factory and
installed by the Canadian rep now groans and complains, before
popping the circuit breaker.
Prop is off my 912S tri-gear and has not suffered any impact damage,
it has less than 50 hours on it.
It may be of use to someone who would like to have spare blades etc
on hand, or who is in a position to
take it back to Woodcomp for a complete overhaul.
Rather than leave it on the hangar wall as an ongoing reminder of a
most unsatisfactory purchase,
it is for sale, any offer over $1 will be considered !
Dave, C-FBZI
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Filling Tips |
Tony
If you add aspoonfull of colloidal silica to the mix, I used it 6:1 by
volume with Expancell, you will get about 30% more expancell in to the
same resin. Start the mix in a large pot, then transfer onto a
board,(plasterers hawk) and work it hard with the scraper.
Try strimmer line 4 " tramlines and a stiff scraper. After you've done a
few of feet of wing go back and flatten the tram lines. The cabosil
makes the filler flow nicely too.
Graham
Tony Wickens wrote:
> <tonywickens@btconnect.com>
>
> Hi All
> I am filling at the moment, just to make all of you that have been
> through it envious! I have tried the fishing line method but found
> that second and third applications were necessary to deal with low areas.
> Getting the mixture dry enough (using expancel) I have also found
> difficult. I will try the system described in Jim and Heather
> Butcher's recent e-mail, particularly working it on a board with a
> spreader and the smear of resin should help the interface adhesion.
>
> Tony Wickens
> XS Kit 353
>
> Martin Tuck wrote>
>> The method is to use a pair of fishing lines (I think I used 100 lb
>> breaking strain but it was about 0.020" dia.). Use weights at either
>> end to drap them over the surface and space them about 10 inches
>> apart like a couple of tram lines. Slap on the filler (and if it
>> turns out shiny you need more filler in the mix) between the
>> tramlines and then using a wide spackle knife or straight edge run it
>> along the tram lines to spread the filler. You should end up with a
>> 0.020' thickness of filler. Lift up one line and place it 10 inches
>> from the other and continue the process all the way down the surface
>> being filled.
>>
>> Now when you lift up the lines you will be left with a line of no
>> filler when the fishing line was but a quick run over with the
>> spackle knife you can force just enough down to fill the gap.
>>
>> For sanding, I started with 60 grit and worked my way down to 100
>> then 160.
>>
>> Avoid adding more filler on top of previously cured filler as you
>> will make it difficult to get an even surface presumably because of
>> variations in hardness of the filler mix.
>>
>> Brings back happy memories! :-)
>>
>> Martin Tuck
>> Europa N152MT
>> Wichita, Kansas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
Message 3
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I found this to be a very good article.
Jerry
_____
Finishing a composite airplane
Foreword
I wrote this because I see a lot of people struggling with finishing
their
airplanes and I don't see anything well written on the subject anywhere.
I
have seen a number of articles in magazines and books but they all seem
to
be written by people who are writers rather then builders and never
actually
did the job, let alone would be good at it. The latest example of such
article is in Sport Aviation 2/2003 named The Joy of Sanding, four pages
filled but nothing helpful about how to do the job. I, on the other
hand, am
no writer and English is a second language for me to top it off, so bear
with me. My own experience comes from building composite tools and
production parts for kit airplanes as a business and from doing all the
finish work on an award winning Lancair IV P for Mike Shooner under the
command of Arthur Gallant who himself received Oshkosh Grand Champion
for
his Lancair 320. I learned a lot on that project. The following
describes in
great details the techniques I use to obtain a perfect straight wave
free
airfoil shape on wings and the fuselage, and do it with the minimum
effort
and cost without spending years on it (or so I think).
Ok, lets start filling.
The process goes basically in two stages, first, we shape/contour the
surface, second, we perfect the surface for the paint application. In
other
articles you probably read directions about looking for "The Low Spots"
with
all kinds of tricks on how to identify them and fill them, then sand,
then
recheck and refill again and again and again. This is the wrong way to
do
it. Not only is this technique time consuming, achieving a wave free
surface
by a patchwork of fillings is just about impossible. The right way to do
it
is to fill all of the surface (meaning like one side of a wing or a
fuselage) at once with a coat of filler sufficiently thick enough to
fully
fill all the lows, then sand the whole surface as one uniform plain
ONCE,
without the need of refilling again. The amount of filler to sand off
may
seem overwhelming at first but the use of proper sanding technique
described
later on makes this task rather effortless. Using this technique you
never
look for low spots, instead you keep sanding until the highs start
coming up
through the filler. Some airplanes, because of their building process
will
have deep depressions, like in the place of spars or joints, which would
be
difficult to fill sufficiently deep and yet smooth in one fill. The
builders
natural tendency would be just to do the first big fill, sand to the
shape
and then refill the areas of these low depressions as needed. It needs
to be
done the other way around, you need to fill these deep depression first,
however that first fill must still stay below the intended finished
surface
height, sanding through the top fill into the first filler coat would
create
hard spots and uneven sanding properties. The picture below shows a good
example of this first head start fill where we had a significant
depression
in the skin in the spar area and the joggle joint on the leading edge.
I strongly recommend spraying a light coat of black primer, before you
start
filling, Even thou this step is not absolutely necessary it is very
helpful
in guiding where to direct more sanding and when to change to finer
sandpaper grade. The filler becomes translucent as it gets thinner and
the
black color starts showing through as dark spots indicating you are
getting
close to the skin surface.
The filler is a plain mix of epoxy and glass micro balloons, commonly
called
"micro". It's not all that easy to work with but it's the lightest
filler
there is with good strength and stability after its cured. I would not
say
you can not use one of the ready to apply premixed epoxy fillers like
SuperFil but be aware that despite all the advertising hype this filler
is
about twice as heavy as home made micro and it will cost a lot more as a
number of gallons of filler are used. The epoxy resin used to mix micro
must
be one of the low viscosity types that will allow high ratio of
microbaloons
to be mixed in. I have used Aeropoxy and Jeffco which both work well. I
mix
it in a large salad bowl about 2/3 to 3/4 of a gallon at a time which is
about as much as I can handle. Mixing is done with a classic flat paint
mixing stick and in a slow motion, trying to mix it fast will not get
the
job done any sooner, you will only blow half of the microbaloons in to
the
air. The finished mix must be fairly dry, keep adding microbaloons until
it
becomes difficult to mix. As long as the mix is visibly flowing and
leveling
by itself its still too wet, another indicator the mix still needs more
microbaloons is that the surface turns glossy when you let it sit a
minute
that=92s the extra epoxy migrating to the surface. Properly mixed micro
spreads with moderate difficulty and fairly high amount of pressure is
required. If it spreads easily it's too wet.
Be aware that micro has one distinct characteristic, that is, the two
materials - microbaloons and epoxy tend to separate from one another
when
still. This characteristic is good for the fact that the resin migrates
onto
the surface being filled creating a real good bond to it. The bad part
is if
you have to refill an area, the resin migrates into the surface of the
previously applied micro creating hard spots when sanding it. These hard
spots create raised areas, a real pain to deal with so try to avoid
that.
Some people squeegee pure resin on the surface to wet it out just prior
applying the micro. I see no reason or purpose of that, I think they got
it
from the way the plaster skim coat is applied on the drywall.
To apply the micro to the surface, use a 6-inch metal trowel. Blob all
the
micro (the mixed batch) to the middle of the surface and then trowel it
in
the direction toward yourself first to one edge, then run around and to
the
other side edge. Always go in the direction of the curve. The trowel is
run
very flat to the surface and good pressure, you hold it by both hands by
the
top part of the blade with all fingers on top and thumbs in the bottom
the
get a good grip, bend the handle up about 30 degrees to get it out of
the
way. The low angle and plenty of pressure are important because that is
what
pushes the air bubbles that got mixed in to the micro out of the micro.
You
will notice that at first it doesn't seem to want to stick and wants to
roll
off, but then when the surface starts to get wetted out, it goes on
pretty
smooth. You don't have much time thou, if you fuss with it too long or
try
to redo an area you did a few minutes ago, it will start to tear up,
lift
off and break up. This is because o lot of resin migrated onto the
surface
and the micro starts to slide on it and unstuck from the surface easily,
remember this important tip, if you make a pass and you see the micro
breaking up make a pass in the opposite direction, that will smooth it
right
up, but then just stop fussing with it. The thickness if the coat should
be
somewhere between 1/8 to =BC of an inch, you shouldn't have any lows on
your
surface deeper then 1/8 of an inch .A little bit too much is better then
a
little bit not enough because it's still easier to sand off some extra
then
having to refill again. It takes some practice, if you want to see how
thick
it is , just dip a Popsicle stick in to it. As a general rule, start the
filling on smaller, single curve surfaces like the tail, then large
single
curve surfaces like wings, and last the most difficult compound curved
parts
on the fuselage, engine cowl, wing fillet so that the level of
difficulty
goes up along with your filling and sanding learning curve. On filling
the
compound shapes the flat metal trowel will not work, for those you need
to
use a flexible plastic squeegee. With 4 fingers on top and the thumb
against
the bottom you can "cap" the squeegee so it follows the curve. Home
depot
sells nice ones in a tri pack of 5, 4 and 2.5 inch wide. On a part like
a
fuselage where you will not be able to fill the whole surface at once,
try
to divide it so bring the edges to a break like a corner where blending
of
one fill into another is easiest. If the fuselage is oval, do the break
where the curve is the sharpest, its much easier to blend it there then
on
the shallow curve. It should take about 2 hours to fill one wing panel
on a
small two-seater, up to about 4 hours on a big four-seater.
Sanding
There are three aspects of the sanding technique that will enable you to
arrive to that perfect straight wave free surface.
First, you must use the right size an shape sanding tool for a given
job,
different shapes require different tool, boards, blocks, tubes, long and
short as needed, Many builders don't realize (or disregard) the
importance
of the right sanding tools. Trying to sand with a chunk of triple folded
sandpaper pushed along with bear hand is not going to work too well. You
will find it a great paradox if you visit somebody's workshop who claims
spending hundreds of hours on finish sanding his airplane and yet you
won't
be able to find a decent sanding board in his shop. Make yourself two
basic
sanding boards 2,3/4 inch wide 16 and 32 inches long, for the length of
one
and two strips of sandpaper. I think the best is to use that white
shelving
material. You need to attach an 1 =BC x 1 =BC aluminum square tube or a
"C"
channel to the back side of it with some screws, that will keep it
straight
and also gives you a good grip so you can hold on to it. The 32 inch one
will be used on the wings, 16 inch on the tail, control surfaces and
flat
parts of the fuselage. For compound surfaces you will need to make
flexible
sanding boards. Not many people know this as I have never seen it
mentioned
anywhere but it will make you work a lot easier when the sanding board
bends
under the pressure and follows the curve of the surface. You will need
two
boards, one should flex rather easy for highly curved surfaces and one
should be fairly stiff for mild curves. The 16 inches length of these
flexible boards should be enough . Use thin plywood, Plexiglas, or
whatever
works for you. Get the real sandpaper from auto paint supply store, the
one
that comes in 16 inch long strips, they usually carry the best, the 3M
brand
is pretty sure bet. The sandpaper grades needed are 36, 80 and 100. Glue
it
on with 3M Super 77 spray adhesive (Home depot), spray on only a light
coat
of it, that stuff sticks like hell. To remove the worn out paper, heat
it up
with a heat gun, it will peel right off.
On tube shape sanding tools the strips will not work, for those, get the
big
sheets for floor sanding from Home depot.
The second aspects of the sanding technique is the proper sanding
pattern.
For an airfoil shape surface, hold the sanding board parallel (at all
times)
to the span and sand at 45 degrees angle, use the longest (reasonable)
stroke, across the whole cord if possible. Start at the root end leading
edge side and move slowly to the tip end with each stroke moved about an
inch or two, creating a sort of a tall tight zigzag pattern. When you
get to
the tip, go back to the root and start another pass, this time sanding
at 45
degrees the other way - 90 degrees to the first pass. After these two
passes
move yourself to the trailing edge side and make two passes from there,
again starting the first pass at 90 degrees to the previous one, and
then
keep repeating this cycle. It is this sanding pattern, that will level
out
the highs and lows into a nice even flowing plain and create the desired
wave free surface.
The third aspect is you checking the surface frequently for high areas
and
directing more attention to them. The best way to check the trueness of
the
surface is to feel it by sliding your hand over the surface in long
sweeps
in all different directions. If you have never tried this you will be
amazed
to find out how sensitive your hand is to even minute surface waves and
unevenness. Direct more sanding to the identified high areas and pass
quicker over the low ones to speed up the process. If everything goes
right,
you will have good straight surface just before you remove all the
filler
and the high spots of the skin start showing through the filler. Keep
sanding off the excess filler until the highs start to show up as dark
spots
across the whole surface. At this point you need to change the sandpaper
grade to 80 for the final sanding stage so you can remove the deep
scratches
left by the 36 grade. Do the final once-over with a 100 grade and that's
as
fine as you need to go on this. They say a picture is worth a thousand
words. Luckily I have some good ones to show you what it should look
like at
this point. On the picture below the right wing has just been filled and
is
curing while I'm sanding the left one
This is a close up of the filed right wing
Here the left wing is sanded and the right wing is just getting started.
It=92s hard to take a picture of an all white surface, it tends to get
overexposed and the details are lost but looking at the pattern of the
dark
spots will give you pretty good idea what it should look like.
This is the horizontal stabilizer just at the point when the shaping is
done
and when I switch to finer grade paper. You can see the cross hatch
sanding
pattern there. The dark spots will get quite a bit darker by the time
all
deep scratches are gone.
It should take about 4 hours to sand one wing panel to shape on a small
two-seater, up to about 8 hours on a big four-seater.
Compound curved surfaces are a little harder to do. Keep basically the
same
crisscross 45 degree pattern relative to the direction of the milder
curve
with your flexible sanding board, but pay a lot more attention to
"feeling"
the surface and sanding off the highs. By the time you do all your
flying
surfaces you will be pretty good at it.
Detailing
There are three kinds of details we have on the plane to deal with,
fillets
where components come together and meet at different angles, fitting of
access and inspection panels and uniform control surfaces gaps.
Take a note here, if you decide to do the control surfaces gaps, you
need to
do them Before the general surface filling of the control surfaces, that
way
the filler is brought up to and blended to the level required to close
the
gaps at the nose area of that control surface.
Filets are fairly easy, shape a corner of a plastic squeegee to the
desired
radius and use that to shape the applied micro into the fillet radius .
Run
the squeegee back and forth in alternating directions very flat at first
to
evenly distribute the micro, then start standing it up with each pass to
gradually remove the excess micro and arrive to the final radius. Use
the
tube sanding tool that closely matches the radius to sand it smooth.
Inspection panels . In order to have good looking access and inspection
panels, or any other openings like gear doors and baggage compartments
doors
or even an engine cowling if its fitted flush with the fuselage, you
need to
create a small even gap around them. Here is the trick how to do that.
Fist
make sure the covers are exact size and shape, round off the corners,
square
corners don=92t look right. Apply clear package sealing tape to the
backside
and wherever needed as a release and mount the covers into exact
position.
Now squeegee the micro all around the recess, or over the whole cover if
the
height of it is not even, and then run a mixing stick all around the
cover
tight against the edge to create a nice line around it. Cutting down the
width of the mixing stick will help it to go around the corners without
widening the gap and dipping the mixing stick in lacquer thinner will
prevent micro from sticking to the stick and help to keep the line edges
nice and smooth.
Control surfaces gaps Ever heard about those incredible even Quarter
thickness gaps that don=92t change a bit, even when you move the surface
?
Here is how to make them. Apply several plies of duck tape on the
underside
of the trailing edge to build up the desired gap thickness. Put clear
packaging tape over it (its slicker and slides better), you will
probably be
able to handle only one side at the time. Apply plenty of micro to the
nose
of the control surface to fill the intended gap and then some. Cover the
micro with a plastic sheet, using thicker stiffer kind on this works
better,
install the control surface into its hinges and slowly move it up and
down
through the whole travel so that the excess micro is pushed out. Viola,
after the duck tape build up is removed, you have a beautiful small and
even
gap through the whole control surface travel. Before you start removing
the
excess micro that got pushed off mark the ends of the travel with a good
line as reference so you don=92t lose it and sand into it later. before
filling the rest of the surface, cover the finished gap part with the
duck
tape to preserve it.
This concludes the first stage, the surface shaping.
Surface finishing
is the second stage of the work when we remove all the nicks, pits,
tears
and finally the scratches. First, vacuum the surface, you need to get
all
the sanding dust out of the nicks so you can see them and fill them.
Micro
does not work on small nicks, it has too coarse consistency. You can use
the
Superfil which is much smoother or you can mix your own filler by adding
cab-o-sil along with microbaloons. To mix this filler, get a coffee can,
fill it 1/3 with microbaloons first, then 1/3 Cab-o-sil. Leave the last
third empty so you can mix it well and add more of either substance if
you
want to adjust the ratio, throw some wood blocks in to help mixing it,
put
the lid on and mix it well. Fill the nicks with a small one inch metal
spatula. Squeegee the filler on to fill the nick but scrape all the
excess
from the surface, it would be very hard to sand. That way you will do
only
light sanding over those spots to remove the leftover fuzz. To get the
right
perspective what size of the nicks is big enough to fill and which is
too
small to be bothered with, use the rule, if you can see it from two feet
away, fill it. Another way to look at it if the nick is no deeper then a
scratch left by a 36 grid sandpaper.
Pinholes
These are tiny voids, bubbles and pits caused by air mixed into the
filler.
They are invisible until the minute you start spraying the first coat of
primer. They can give you a big headache if you attack them the wrong
way.
You might have heard horror stories of builders spraying coat after coat
of
primer trying to get rid of them. The bottom line is, you cannot fill
the
pinholes by spraying. Yes, if you keep spraying long enough, eventually
they
will disappear, but they will not be filled, they will be bridged.
Bridged
pinholes can cause the painted surface to develop little pimple like
bumps
on the sun when the paint softens some and the trapped air expands with
the
heat.
Luckily, we have a simple effective way how to deal with pinholes before
we
even see any. Vacuum the surface real well to remove any dust and then
squeegee pure epoxy resin over the surface. The coat is very thin and
the
amount of resin is mall, you are basically just wetting the surface,
give it
some time to soak in and squeegee off all the excess. The resin has very
low
surface tension so it flows into all those small voids and because
unlike
primers it doesn=92t contain any volatiles it doesn=92t shrink as it
cures so
the fill is complete. The second benefit of this step is that the resins
hardens the top shell of the micro, making it more durable.
A word of caution, many epoxy resins do not cure well and stay gummy at
very
thin coat, especially in humid condition. If yours is one of those or
you
are not sure, use the West system epoxy for this.
When this top coat is cured sand it lightly with 100 just to break the
gloss, and you are ready for the primer.
The primer used in this step is a "high build up" kind, intended for
final
wet sanding. There are many on the market so I can=92t say you must use
this ,
or cannot use that, except maybe for one. You may have seen reference in
other articles (especially the older ones) to use "Feather fill". I have
used it and I don=92t understand how anybody can recommend it . This is
one of
the worst products I have seen in my life.
I have been using two kinds of primers so far.
One is "PPG K200" this is acrylic urethane (two part 4:1), very fast
drying,
easy to spray, dark yellow in color. Available from auto paint supply
stores. It wet sands very easy, however it has rather soft properties
even
when cured. Mishandling of parts can dent and scratch the surface rather
easily.
The other kind is epoxy based "US Paint D9002 base /D3002 converter"
(Two
part 1:1). Also dark yellow, available from marine supply stores (
www.uspaint.com ) This primer takes longer to dry and it=92s a bit
harder to
sand but it is very hard and durable when fully cured. I myself prefer
the
better durability, even if it takes more work.
I have not had a chance to try "Poly-fiber Smooth Prime" but I plan on
it.
Wet sanding is done by still keeping the same 45 degrees crisscross
pattern
but the sanding blocks are a lot smaller, 11x3 inches for large parts
5.5x3
for the smaller ones. I use pieces of hard foam as sanding blocks. Use
the
same "super 77 spray adhesive" and spray just very light mist on it to
attach it, it will peel off without the need of heating it up. Start
with
180 grade for fast progress but be aware 180 leaves pretty deep
scratches
that would show in the paint so switch to 220 grade for the second half
of
the job. On the contrary to some peoples believe, 1 sheet of wet
sandpaper
does not last forever, it just isn=92t as obvious its getting dull by
looking
at it so change the paper often.
To check the progression and quality of the surface use the squeegee
technique. Pour some water over the surface and squeegee it off with a
rubber window squeegee (Home depot has those), all the remaining pits
will
become instantly visible. Keep sanding and checking until they are all
gone.
Don=92t go crazy if you have a few deeper nicks left here and there, and
don=92t
sand flat spots or dips into your surface in order to get rid of them.
They
will be filled instead.
For this last filling use polyester based "glazing putty" (auto paint
supplies) This is very smooth creamy filler designed for minor
imperfections. Before you start filling go over the whole surface
carefully
and mark all imperfections to be filled with a pencil so you don=92t
have too
look for them while your mixed putty is curing. Mix the glazing filler
in
small batches, it has very short pot life so you have only a few minutes
on
each batch. Squeegee it on with a small metal spatula and scrape off any
excess. Wet sand the spots after they cure and you are done.
There will be one more coat of primer but that is as a part of painting
.
Every paint system normally has its own primer that goes on just before
the
paint to insure good paint adhesion.
This is where I leave it, I=92m not an expert on painting so with the
paint
you are on your own.
Legal disclaimer
This is only one mans opinion and my contradict with experience and
advice
of others.
You can distribute and link to this page freely, comments and questions
are
welcomed.
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| Subject: | Re: Woodcomp SR 2000 for sale, or free to a good home |
Hi Dave,
I would be interested in using it. If my fuel inection project ever
gets going it will make a perfect static load for testing.
As far as an update is concerned on this project. I have a 914 engine
that I have dissembled, cleaned, done a valve grind and fitted new
rings to.
Next step is to haul it down to the Rotax shop to have it re assembled.
Cheers,
Paul
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| Subject: | Re: Filling Tips |
Christoph,
Thanks for your input, I am taking your thoughts to heart.
Ralph
RKHallett III
XS MG
Christoph Both wrote:
> Hi Tony:
> I am a Classic builder about to complete this part of the building.
>
> What I found most helpful:
> KEEP IT as SIMPLE and effective as possible, especially if you have a Classic.
> Invest into the best tools and components, use them right and you get excellent
results:
>
> - Lightweight epoxy filler is readily available (SuperFill or Aeropoxy Light)
> - Put it on once and sufficiently thick and then block it down to the proper
profile the first time. Very little needs to be re-filled the second time because
it is in this multiple later fillings where you are going to spend a lot of
your time. This stuff is very easy to work with and I find both products easy
to sand back with excellent predictability.
> -Use the highest quality professional grade sanding paper (no-fill grade). You
get this only at auto body shop suppliers, NOT the local home hardware store.
Everything else scratches your hard won smoothness at every step up.
> -Use a large sandpaper sheet size block with the sheet attached with carpet tape
works well.
> -Do not be tempted to use machine help until you really have experience and know
what you are doing. Character is built through hand work...
> -The filling step can be one of the most expensive if you consider giving your
bird to a professional auto body shop to bring it up to their professional pre-painting
standards. I was quoted a full week of work at $40/hour= $1,600 just
for that step alone. You will not believe how much of the actual fuselage will
actually need filling to come out looking good especially if you have an older
non-clear coated fuselage (mine). So, the 4-6 gallons of filler are well
spent investment.
> -Consider doing the UV protection and priming yourself, with your own hands and
a roller in hand: UV Smooth Prime allows this without all the bad toxicity
so you can do it at home in your own garage. A gallon will do most of the airplane.
You need to sand it back to professional grade but remember, they charge
you $40/hr for this, so you can really save money here. Around wind shields consider
the pro job doing a final pass with Epoxy primer. it sticks better to
the acrylic.
> -Finally save some of the saved money at the final step where it really counts:
painting is an acquired skill. Unless you feel confident doing it yourself
and dealing with the requirements of dealing with toxic paints, let a professional
painter do the final prep and final coat. They use those toxic materials
every day and will reward all your work with a professional finish which would
take you many airplanes to achieve.
> - Have a professional doing it all for you can cost you over $10,000. Doing the
important parts yourself will cut this in half, or less.
>
> Christoph Both
> #223
> Wolfville, Nova Scotia, Canada
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Tony Wickens
> Sent: Wed 9/17/2008 6:03 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Filling Tips
>
>
>
> Hi All
> I am filling at the moment, just to make all of you that have been through
> it envious! I have tried the fishing line method but found that second and
> third applications were necessary to deal with low areas. Of course, hot
> wiring rules apply in terms of Burt Rutan's 'talking numbers'. That is the
> spline has to be non flexible and the angle has to be kept parallel to the
> line of the curvature.
> Brian Davies came around and said that he used the lay it on thick and sand
> it back once method and I have found that this works better for me. The only
> issue with blocking back, apart from avoiding cutting into the fiber glass
> is not to put too much heat into the component.
> Getting the mixture dry enough (using expancel) I have also found difficult.
> I will try the system described in Jim and Heather Butcher's recent e-mail,
> particularly working it on a board with a spreader and the smear of resin
> should help the interface adhesion. It is worth a try
> The trouble is that by the time you are getting proficient the job is
> finished. My respect grows for all you Classic builders and I am careful not
> to winge on about filling and rubbing down in their company
> Thanks for all the useful and interesting inputs
> Tony Wickens
> XS Kit 353
>
> Martin Tuck wrote>
>
>> The method is to use a pair of fishing lines (I think I used 100 lb
>> breaking strain but it was about 0.020" dia.). Use weights at either end
>> to drap them over the surface and space them about 10 inches apart like a
>> couple of tram lines. Slap on the filler (and if it turns out shiny you
>> need more filler in the mix) between the tramlines and then using a wide
>> spackle knife or straight edge run it along the tram lines to spread the
>> filler. You should end up with a 0.020' thickness of filler. Lift up one
>> line and place it 10 inches from the other and continue the process all
>> the way down the surface being filled.
>>
>> Now when you lift up the lines you will be left with a line of no filler
>> when the fishing line was but a quick run over with the spackle knife you
>> can force just enough down to fill the gap.
>>
>> For sanding, I started with 60 grit and worked my way down to 100 then
>> 160.
>>
>> Avoid adding more filler on top of previously cured filler as you will
>> make it difficult to get an even surface presumably because of variations
>> in hardness of the filler mix.
>>
>> Brings back happy memories! :-)
>>
>> Martin Tuck
>> Europa N152MT
>> Wichita, Kansas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 6
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Would somebody with access to a europa XS monowheel trailer please
measure and let me have the length of the tailwheel track from the rear
face of the main wheel support to the forward end before the tow hitch.
I need to know the minimum length of track needed to accommodate the
extended tailwheel of the XS.
Thanks
Mike
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Woodcomp SR 2000 for sale, or free to a good home |
Hi Paul,
Yes it, would be Ok for a ground test prop.
A couple of builders have expressed a slight interest, but if it does
not sell,it will be here next time you stop in for lunch.
Dave
On 18-Sep-08, at 3:06 PM, Paul McAllister wrote:
> <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> I would be interested in using it. If my fuel inection project ever
> gets going it will make a perfect static load for testing.
>
> As far as an update is concerned on this project. I have a 914 engine
> that I have dissembled, cleaned, done a valve grind and fitted new
> rings to.
>
> Next step is to haul it down to the Rotax shop to have it re
> assembled.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Paul
>
>
Message 8
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Mike
I just happen to have mine a few feet away. Its 13'-5" from back face of
tire to the forward end before the tow hitch. Its 3.5" from face of tire to
back of I-beam that tail wheel track starts. There are a couple of extra
inches of excess track that tail wheel does not use as it is drawn tight
towards tow hitch. Hope this makes sense.
Jerry
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Gamble
Sent: Thursday, September 18, 2008 1:53 PM
Subject: Europa-List: XS Trailer
Would somebody with access to a europa XS monowheel trailer please measure
and let me have the length of the tailwheel track from the rear face of the
main wheel support to the forward end before the tow hitch.
I need to know the minimum length of track needed to accommodate the
extended tailwheel of the XS.
Thanks
Mike
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Finishing tips |
Jerry
Still on the filling but I have thought the article excellent as well, ofte
n turning back to re-read parts.
but the hardest part at first was :-
=22The right way to do it is to fill all of the surface (meaning like one sid
e of a wing or a fuselage) at once with a coat of filler sufficiently thick
enough to fully fill all the lows, then sand the whole surface as one unif
orm plain ONCE, without the need of refilling again.=22
Strimmer lines as advocated by Graham Singleton help. I used them and a 2=22
pipe as a roller with thin plastic sheet between filler and roller as advoc
ated by Kingsley Hurst.
JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz
----- Original Message ----- )
From: Jerry Rehn
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 19, 2008 4:06 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Finishing tips
I found this to be a very good article.
Jerry
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Finishing a composite airplane
Foreword
I wrote this because I see a lot of people struggling with finishing thei
r airplanes and I don't see anything well written on the subject anywhere.
I have seen a number of articles in magazines and books but they all seem t
o be written by people who are writers rather then builders and never actua
lly did the job, let alone would be good at it. The latest example of such
article is in Sport Aviation 2/2003 named The Joy of Sanding, four pages fi
lled but nothing helpful about how to do the job. I, on the other hand, am
no writer and English is a second language for me to top it off, so bear wi
th me. My own experience comes from building composite tools and production
parts for kit airplanes as a business and from doing all the finish work o
n an award winning Lancair IV P for Mike Shooner under the command of Arthu
r Gallant who himself received Oshkosh Grand Champion for his Lancair 320.
I learned a lot on that project. The following describes in great details t
he techniques I use to obtain a perfect straight wave free airfoil shape on
wings and the fuselage, and do it with the minimum effort and cost without
spending years on it (or so I think).
Ok, lets start filling.
The process goes basically in two stages, first, we shape/contour the sur
face, second, we perfect the surface for the paint application. In other ar
ticles you probably read directions about looking for =22The Low Spots=22 with
all kinds of tricks on how to identify them and fill them, then sand, then
recheck and refill again and again and again. This is the wrong way to do i
t. Not only is this technique time consuming, achieving a wave free surface
by a patchwork of fillings is just about impossible. The right way to do i
t is to fill all of the surface (meaning like one side of a wing or a fusel
age) at once with a coat of filler sufficiently thick enough to fully fill
all the lows, then sand the whole surface as one uniform plain ONCE, withou
t the need of refilling again. The amount of filler to sand off may seem ov
erwhelming at first but the use of proper sanding technique described later
on makes this task rather effortless. Using this technique you never look
for low spots, instead you keep sanding until the highs start coming up thr
ough the filler. Some airplanes, because of their building process will hav
e deep depressions, like in the place of spars or joints, which would be di
fficult to fill sufficiently deep and yet smooth in one fill. The builders
natural tendency would be just to do the first big fill, sand to the shape
and then refill the areas of these low depressions as needed. It needs to b
e done the other way around, you need to fill these deep depression first,
however that first fill must still stay below the intended finished surface
height, sanding through the top fill into the first filler coat would crea
te hard spots and uneven sanding properties. The picture below shows a good
example of this first head start fill where we had a significant depressio
n in the skin in the spar area and the joggle joint on the leading edge.
I strongly recommend spraying a light coat of black primer, before you st
art filling, Even thou this step is not absolutely necessary it is very hel
pful in guiding where to direct more sanding and when to change to finer sa
ndpaper grade. The filler becomes translucent as it gets thinner and the bl
ack color starts showing through as dark spots indicating you are getting c
lose to the skin surface.
The filler is a plain mix of epoxy and glass micro balloons, commonly cal
led =22micro=22. It's not all that easy to work with but it's the lightest fill
er there is with good strength and stability after its cured. I would not s
ay you can not use one of the ready to apply premixed epoxy fillers like Su
perFil but be aware that despite all the advertising hype this filler is ab
out twice as heavy as home made micro and it will cost a lot more as a numb
er of gallons of filler are used. The epoxy resin used to mix micro must be
one of the low viscosity types that will allow high ratio of microbaloons
to be mixed in. I have used Aeropoxy and Jeffco which both work well. I mix
it in a large salad bowl about 2/3 to 3/4 of a gallon at a time which is a
bout as much as I can handle. Mixing is done with a classic flat paint mixi
ng stick and in a slow motion, trying to mix it fast will not get the job d
one any sooner, you will only blow half of the microbaloons in to the air.
The finished mix must be fairly dry, keep adding microbaloons until it beco
mes difficult to mix. As long as the mix is visibly flowing and leveling by
itself its still too wet, another indicator the mix still needs more micro
baloons is that the surface turns glossy when you let it sit a minute that'
s the extra epoxy migrating to the surface. Properly mixed micro spreads wi
th moderate difficulty and fairly high amount of pressure is required. If i
t spreads easily it's too wet.
Be aware that micro has one distinct characteristic, that is, the two mat
erials - microbaloons and epoxy tend to separate from one another when stil
l. This characteristic is good for the fact that the resin migrates onto th
e surface being filled creating a real good bond to it. The bad part is if
you have to refill an area, the resin migrates into the surface of the prev
iously applied micro creating hard spots when sanding it. These hard spots
create raised areas, a real pain to deal with so try to avoid that. Some pe
ople squeegee pure resin on the surface to wet it out just prior applying t
he micro. I see no reason or purpose of that, I think they got it from the
way the plaster skim coat is applied on the drywall.
To apply the micro to the surface, use a 6-inch metal trowel. Blob all th
e micro (the mixed batch) to the middle of the surface and then trowel it i
n the direction toward yourself first to one edge, then run around and to t
he other side edge. Always go in the direction of the curve. The trowel is
run very flat to the surface and good pressure, you hold it by both hands b
y the top part of the blade with all fingers on top and thumbs in the botto
m the get a good grip, bend the handle up about 30 degrees to get it out of
the way. The low angle and plenty of pressure are important because that i
s what pushes the air bubbles that got mixed in to the micro out of the mic
ro. You will notice that at first it doesn't seem to want to stick and want
s to roll off, but then when the surface starts to get wetted out, it goes
on pretty smooth. You don't have much time thou, if you fuss with it too lo
ng or try to redo an area you did a few minutes ago, it will start to tear
up, lift off and break up. This is because o lot of resin migrated onto the
surface and the micro starts to slide on it and unstuck from the surface e
asily, remember this important tip, if you make a pass and you see the micr
o breaking up make a pass in the opposite direction, that will smooth it ri
ght up, but then just stop fussing with it. The thickness if the coat shoul
d be somewhere between 1/8 to =BC of an inch, you shouldn't have any lows on
your surface deeper then 1/8 of an inch .A little bit too much is better th
en a little bit not enough because it's still easier to sand off some extra
then having to refill again. It takes some practice, if you want to see ho
w thick it is , just dip a Popsicle stick in to it. As a general rule, star
t the filling on smaller, single curve surfaces like the tail, then large s
ingle curve surfaces like wings, and last the most difficult compound curve
d parts on the fuselage, engine cowl, wing fillet so that the level of diff
iculty goes up along with your filling and sanding learning curve. On filli
ng the compound shapes the flat metal trowel will not work, for those you n
eed to use a flexible plastic squeegee. With 4 fingers on top and the thumb
against the bottom you can =22cap=22 the squeegee so it follows the curve. Hom
e depot sells nice ones in a tri pack of 5, 4 and 2.5 inch wide. On a part
like a fuselage where you will not be able to fill the whole surface at onc
e, try to divide it so bring the edges to a break like a corner where blend
ing of one fill into another is easiest. If the fuselage is oval, do the br
eak where the curve is the sharpest, its much easier to blend it there then
on the shallow curve. It should take about 2 hours to fill one wing panel
on a small two-seater, up to about 4 hours on a big four-seater.
Sanding
There are three aspects of the sanding technique that will enable you to
arrive to that perfect straight wave free surface.
First, you must use the right size an shape sanding tool for a given job,
different shapes require different tool, boards, blocks, tubes, long and s
hort as needed, Many builders don't realize (or disregard) the importance o
f the right sanding tools. Trying to sand with a chunk of triple folded san
dpaper pushed along with bear hand is not going to work too well. You will
find it a great paradox if you visit somebody's workshop who claims spendin
g hundreds of hours on finish sanding his airplane and yet you won't be abl
e to find a decent sanding board in his shop. Make yourself two basic sandi
ng boards 2,3/4 inch wide 16 and 32 inches long, for the length of one and
two strips of sandpaper. I think the best is to use that white shelving mat
erial. You need to attach an 1 =BC x 1 =BC aluminum square tube or a =22C=22 channe
l to the back side of it with some screws, that will keep it straight and a
lso gives you a good grip so you can hold on to it. The 32 inch one will be
used on the wings, 16 inch on the tail, control surfaces and flat parts of
the fuselage. For compound surfaces you will need to make flexible sanding
boards. Not many people know this as I have never seen it mentioned anywhe
re but it will make you work a lot easier when the sanding board bends unde
r the pressure and follows the curve of the surface. You will need two boar
ds, one should flex rather easy for highly curved surfaces and one should b
e fairly stiff for mild curves. The 16 inches length of these flexible boar
ds should be enough . Use thin plywood, Plexiglas, or whatever works for yo
u. Get the real sandpaper from auto paint supply store, the one that comes
in 16 inch long strips, they usually carry the best, the 3M brand is pretty
sure bet. The sandpaper grades needed are 36, 80 and 100. Glue it on with
3M Super 77 spray adhesive (Home depot), spray on only a light coat of it,
that stuff sticks like hell. To remove the worn out paper, heat it up with
a heat gun, it will peel right off.
On tube shape sanding tools the strips will not work, for those, get the
big sheets for floor sanding from Home depot.
The second aspects of the sanding technique is the proper sanding pattern
. For an airfoil shape surface, hold the sanding board parallel (at all tim
es) to the span and sand at 45 degrees angle, use the longest (reasonable)
stroke, across the whole cord if possible. Start at the root end leading ed
ge side and move slowly to the tip end with each stroke moved about an inch
or two, creating a sort of a tall tight zigzag pattern. When you get to th
e tip, go back to the root and start another pass, this time sanding at 45
degrees the other way - 90 degrees to the first pass. After these two passe
s move yourself to the trailing edge side and make two passes from there, a
gain starting the first pass at 90 degrees to the previous one, and then ke
ep repeating this cycle. It is this sanding pattern, that will level out th
e highs and lows into a nice even flowing plain and create the desired wave
free surface.
The third aspect is you checking the surface frequently for high areas an
d directing more attention to them. The best way to check the trueness of t
he surface is to feel it by sliding your hand over the surface in long swee
ps in all different directions. If you have never tried this you will be am
azed to find out how sensitive your hand is to even minute surface waves an
d unevenness. Direct more sanding to the identified high areas and pass qui
cker over the low ones to speed up the process. If everything goes right, y
ou will have good straight surface just before you remove all the filler an
d the high spots of the skin start showing through the filler. Keep sanding
off the excess filler until the highs start to show up as dark spots acros
s the whole surface. At this point you need to change the sandpaper grade t
o 80 for the final sanding stage so you can remove the deep scratches left
by the 36 grade. Do the final once-over with a 100 grade and that's as fine
as you need to go on this. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. L
uckily I have some good ones to show you what it should look like at this p
oint. On the picture below the right wing has just been filled and is curin
g while I'm sanding the left one
This is a close up of the filed right wing
Here the left wing is sanded and the right wing is just getting started.
It's hard to take a picture of an all white surface, it tends to get overex
posed and the details are lost but looking at the pattern of the dark spots
will give you pretty good idea what it should look like.
This is the horizontal stabilizer just at the point when the shaping is d
one and when I switch to finer grade paper. You can see the cross hatch san
ding pattern there. The dark spots will get quite a bit darker by the time
all deep scratches are gone.
It should take about 4 hours to sand one wing panel to shape on a small t
wo-seater, up to about 8 hours on a big four-seater.
Compound curved surfaces are a little harder to do. Keep basically the sa
me crisscross 45 degree pattern relative to the direction of the milder cur
ve with your flexible sanding board, but pay a lot more attention to =22feeli
ng=22 the surface and sanding off the highs. By the time you do all your flyi
ng surfaces you will be pretty good at it.
Detailing
There are three kinds of details we have on the plane to deal with, fille
ts where components come together and meet at different angles, fitting of
access and inspection panels and uniform control surfaces gaps.
Take a note here, if you decide to do the control surfaces gaps, you need
to do them Before the general surface filling of the control surfaces, tha
t way the filler is brought up to and blended to the level required to clos
e the gaps at the nose area of that control surface.
Filets are fairly easy, shape a corner of a plastic squeegee to the desir
ed radius and use that to shape the applied micro into the fillet radius .
Run the squeegee back and forth in alternating directions very flat at firs
t to evenly distribute the micro, then start standing it up with each pass
to gradually remove the excess micro and arrive to the final radius. Use th
e tube sanding tool that closely matches the radius to sand it smooth.
Inspection panels . In order to have good looking access and inspection p
anels, or any other openings like gear doors and baggage compartments doors
or even an engine cowling if its fitted flush with the fuselage, you need
to create a small even gap around them. Here is the trick how to do that. F
ist make sure the covers are exact size and shape, round off the corners, s
quare corners don't look right. Apply clear package sealing tape to the bac
kside and wherever needed as a release and mount the covers into exact posi
tion. Now squeegee the micro all around the recess, or over the whole cover
if the height of it is not even, and then run a mixing stick all around th
e cover tight against the edge to create a nice line around it. Cutting dow
n the width of the mixing stick will help it to go around the corners witho
ut widening the gap and dipping the mixing stick in lacquer thinner will pr
event micro from sticking to the stick and help to keep the line edges nice
and smooth.
Control surfaces gaps Ever heard about those incredible even Quarter thic
kness gaps that don't change a bit, even when you move the surface =3F Here i
s how to make them. Apply several plies of duck tape on the underside of th
e trailing edge to build up the desired gap thickness. Put clear packaging
tape over it (its slicker and slides better), you will probably be able to
handle only one side at the time. Apply plenty of micro to the nose of the
control surface to fill the intended gap and then some. Cover the micro wit
h a plastic sheet, using thicker stiffer kind on this works better, install
the control surface into its hinges and slowly move it up and down through
the whole travel so that the excess micro is pushed out. Viola, after the
duck tape build up is removed, you have a beautiful small and even gap thro
ugh the whole control surface travel. Before you start removing the excess
micro that got pushed off mark the ends of the travel with a good line as r
eference so you don't lose it and sand into it later. before filling the re
st of the surface, cover the finished gap part with the duck tape to preser
ve it.
This concludes the first stage, the surface shaping.
Surface finishing
is the second stage of the work when we remove all the nicks, pits, tears
and finally the scratches. First, vacuum the surface, you need to get all
the sanding dust out of the nicks so you can see them and fill them. Micro
does not work on small nicks, it has too coarse consistency. You can use th
e Superfil which is much smoother or you can mix your own filler by adding
cab-o-sil along with microbaloons. To mix this filler, get a coffee can, fi
ll it 1/3 with microbaloons first, then 1/3 Cab-o-sil. Leave the last third
empty so you can mix it well and add more of either substance if you want
to adjust the ratio, throw some wood blocks in to help mixing it, put the l
id on and mix it well. Fill the nicks with a small one inch metal spatula.
Squeegee the filler on to fill the nick but scrape all the excess from the
surface, it would be very hard to sand. That way you will do only light san
ding over those spots to remove the leftover fuzz. To get the right perspec
tive what size of the nicks is big enough to fill and which is too small to
be bothered with, use the rule, if you can see it from two feet away, fill
it. Another way to look at it if the nick is no deeper then a scratch left
by a 36 grid sandpaper.
Pinholes
These are tiny voids, bubbles and pits caused by air mixed into the fille
r. They are invisible until the minute you start spraying the first coat of
primer. They can give you a big headache if you attack them the wrong way.
You might have heard horror stories of builders spraying coat after coat o
f primer trying to get rid of them. The bottom line is, you cannot fill the
pinholes by spraying. Yes, if you keep spraying long enough, eventually th
ey will disappear, but they will not be filled, they will be bridged. Bridg
ed pinholes can cause the painted surface to develop little pimple like bum
ps on the sun when the paint softens some and the trapped air expands with
the heat.
Luckily, we have a simple effective way how to deal with pinholes before
we even see any. Vacuum the surface real well to remove any dust and then s
queegee pure epoxy resin over the surface. The coat is very thin and the am
ount of resin is mall, you are basically just wetting the surface, give it
some time to soak in and squeegee off all the excess. The resin has very lo
w surface tension so it flows into all those small voids and because unlike
primers it doesn't contain any volatiles it doesn't shrink as it cures so
the fill is complete. The second benefit of this step is that the resins ha
rdens the top shell of the micro, making it more durable.
A word of caution, many epoxy resins do not cure well and stay gummy at v
ery thin coat, especially in humid condition. If yours is one of those or y
ou are not sure, use the West system epoxy for this.
When this top coat is cured sand it lightly with 100 just to break the gl
oss, and you are ready for the primer.
The primer used in this step is a =22high build up=22 kind, intended for fina
l wet sanding. There are many on the market so I can't say you must use thi
s , or cannot use that, except maybe for one. You may have seen reference i
n other articles (especially the older ones) to use =22Feather fill=22. I have
used it and I don't understand how anybody can recommend it . This is one o
f the worst products I have seen in my life.
I have been using two kinds of primers so far.
One is =22PPG K200=22 this is acrylic urethane (two part 4:1), very fast dryi
ng, easy to spray, dark yellow in color. Available from auto paint supply s
tores. It wet sands very easy, however it has rather soft properties even w
hen cured. Mishandling of parts can dent and scratch the surface rather eas
ily.
The other kind is epoxy based =22US Paint D9002 base /D3002 converter=22 (Two
part 1:1). Also dark yellow, available from marine supply stores ( www.usp
aint.com ) This primer takes longer to dry and it's a bit harder to sand bu
t it is very hard and durable when fully cured. I myself prefer the better
durability, even if it takes more work.
I have not had a chance to try =22Poly-fiber Smooth Prime=22 but I plan on it
.
Wet sanding is done by still keeping the same 45 degrees crisscross patte
rn but the sanding blocks are a lot smaller, 11x3 inches for large parts 5.
5x3 for the smaller ones. I use pieces of hard foam as sanding blocks. Use
the same =22super 77 spray adhesive=22 and spray just very light mist on it to
attach it, it will peel off without the need of heating it up. Start with 1
80 grade for fast progress but be aware 180 leaves pretty deep scratches th
at would show in the paint so switch to 220 grade for the second half of th
e job. On the contrary to some peoples believe, 1 sheet of wet sandpaper do
es not last forever, it just isn't as obvious its getting dull by looking a
t it so change the paper often.
To check the progression and quality of the surface use the squeegee tech
nique. Pour some water over the surface and squeegee it off with a rubber w
indow squeegee (Home depot has those), all the remaining pits will become i
nstantly visible. Keep sanding and checking until they are all gone. Don't
go crazy if you have a few deeper nicks left here and there, and don't sand
flat spots or dips into your surface in order to get rid of them. They wil
l be filled instead.
For this last filling use polyester based =22glazing putty=22 (auto paint sup
plies) This is very smooth creamy filler designed for minor imperfections.
Before you start filling go over the whole surface carefully and mark all i
mperfections to be filled with a pencil so you don't have too look for them
while your mixed putty is curing. Mix the glazing filler in small batches,
it has very short pot life so you have only a few minutes on each batch. S
queegee it on with a small metal spatula and scrape off any excess. Wet san
d the spots after they cure and you are done.
There will be one more coat of primer but that is as a part of painting .
Every paint system normally has its own primer that goes on just before th
e paint to insure good paint adhesion.
This is where I leave it, I'm not an expert on painting so with the paint
you are on your own.
Legal disclaimer
This is only one mans opinion and my contradict with experience and advic
e of others.
You can distribute and link to this page freely, comments and questions a
re welcomed.
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| Subject: | Re: Finishing tips |
I found that a dry mix of Expancel and SP106 works well for the first
round. Apply liberally, sand once - with coarse boards (I tried the
mucking about technique too and it takes forever). Careful towards the
end, but easy to see.
Less dry mix for surface perfecting. Stlll no point in getting too fine.
SP106 also works for pinhole filling.
Ampreg20 is not very good for surface work - it remains sticky a long
time. The Aeropoxy laminating epoxy may be better - don't know.
Final layer before paint SP Hibuild312 rolled on (ventilate well). Will
mostly be sanded off using fine paper. Outcome to be seen, looks good.
By the way, in my experience the XS wings need filler in parts (trailing
outer wing sections) and hibuild all over or the ribs will be visible.
Jan de Jong
JR Gowing wrote:
> Jerry
> Still on the filling but I have thought the article excellent as well,
> often turning back to re-read parts.
> but the hardest part at first was :-
> "The right way to do it is to fill all of the surface (meaning like
> one side of a wing or a fuselage) at once with a coat of filler
> sufficiently thick enough to fully fill all the lows, then sand the
> whole surface as one uniform plain ONCE, without the need of refilling
> again."
> Strimmer lines as advocated by Graham Singleton help. I used them and
> a 2" pipe as a roller with thin plastic sheet between filler and
> roller as advocated by Kingsley Hurst.
> JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz
>
> ----- Original Message ----- )
> *From:* Jerry Rehn <mailto:rehn@rockisland.com>
> *To:* europa-list@matronics.com <mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, September 19, 2008 4:06 AM
> *Subject:* Europa-List: Finishing tips
>
> I found this to be a very good article.
>
> Jerry
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> *_Finishing a composite airplane_*
>
> *_Foreword _
> *I wrote this because I see a lot of people struggling with
> finishing their airplanes and I don't see anything well written on
> the subject anywhere. I have seen a number of articles in
> magazines and books but they all seem to be written by people who
> are writers rather then builders and never actually did the job,
> let alone would be good at it. The latest example of such article
> is in Sport Aviation 2/2003 named The Joy of Sanding, four pages
> filled but nothing helpful about how to do the job. I, on the
> other hand, am no writer and English is a second language for me
> to top it off, so bear with me. My own experience comes from
> building composite tools and production parts for kit airplanes as
> a business and from doing all the finish work on an award winning
> Lancair IV P for Mike Shooner under the command of Arthur Gallant
> who himself received Oshkosh Grand Champion for his Lancair 320. I
> learned a lot on that project. The following describes in great
> details the techniques I use to obtain a perfect straight wave
> free airfoil shape on wings and the fuselage, and do it with the
> minimum effort and cost without spending years on it (or so I think).
>
> *_Ok, lets start filling. _*
> The process goes basically in two stages, first, we shape/contour
> the surface, second, we perfect the surface for the paint
> application. In other articles you probably read directions about
> looking for "The Low Spots" with all kinds of tricks on how to
> identify them and fill them, then sand, then recheck and refill
> again and again and again. This is the wrong way to do it. Not
> only is this technique time consuming, achieving a wave free
> surface by a patchwork of fillings is just about impossible. The
> right way to do it is to fill all of the surface (meaning like one
> side of a wing or a fuselage) at once with a coat of filler
> sufficiently thick enough to fully fill all the lows, then sand
> the whole surface as one uniform plain ONCE, without the need of
> refilling again. The amount of filler to sand off may seem
> overwhelming at first but the use of proper sanding technique
> described later on makes this task rather effortless. Using this
> technique you never look for low spots, instead you keep sanding
> until the highs start coming up through the filler. Some
> airplanes, because of their building process will have deep
> depressions, like in the place of spars or joints, which would be
> difficult to fill sufficiently deep and yet smooth in one fill.
> The builders natural tendency would be just to do the first big
> fill, sand to the shape and then refill the areas of these low
> depressions as needed. It needs to be done the other way around,
> you need to fill these deep depression first, however that first
> fill must still stay below the intended finished surface height,
> sanding through the top fill into the first filler coat would
> create hard spots and uneven sanding properties. The picture below
> shows a good example of this first head start fill where we had a
> significant depression in the skin in the spar area and the joggle
> joint on the leading edge.
>
>
> I strongly recommend spraying a light coat of black primer, before
> you start filling, Even thou this step is not absolutely necessary
> it is very helpful in guiding where to direct more sanding and
> when to change to finer sandpaper grade. The filler becomes
> translucent as it gets thinner and the black color starts showing
> through as dark spots indicating you are getting close to the skin
> surface.
> *The filler *is a plain mix of epoxy and glass micro balloons,
> commonly called "micro". It's not all that easy to work with but
> it's the lightest filler there is with good strength and stability
> after its cured. I would not say you can not use one of the ready
> to apply premixed epoxy fillers like SuperFil but be aware that
> despite all the advertising hype this filler is about twice as
> heavy as home made micro and it will cost a lot more as a number
> of gallons of filler are used. The epoxy resin used to mix micro
> must be one of the low viscosity types that will allow high ratio
> of microbaloons to be mixed in. I have used Aeropoxy and Jeffco
> which both work well. I mix it in a large salad bowl about 2/3 to
> 3/4 of a gallon at a time which is about as much as I can handle.
> Mixing is done with a classic flat paint mixing stick and in a
> slow motion, trying to mix it fast will not get the job done any
> sooner, you will only blow half of the microbaloons in to the air.
> The finished mix must be fairly dry, keep adding microbaloons
> until it becomes difficult to mix. As long as the mix is visibly
> flowing and leveling by itself its still too wet, another
> indicator the mix still needs more microbaloons is that the
> surface turns glossy when you let it sit a minute thats the extra
> epoxy migrating to the surface. Properly mixed micro spreads with
> moderate difficulty and fairly high amount of pressure is
> required. If it spreads easily it's too wet.
> Be aware that micro has one distinct characteristic, that is, the
> two materials - microbaloons and epoxy tend to separate from one
> another when still. This characteristic is good for the fact that
> the resin migrates onto the surface being filled creating a real
> good bond to it. The bad part is if you have to refill an area,
> the resin migrates into the surface of the previously applied
> micro creating hard spots when sanding it. These hard spots create
> raised areas, a real pain to deal with so try to avoid that. Some
> people squeegee pure resin on the surface to wet it out just prior
> applying the micro. I see no reason or purpose of that, I think
> they got it from the way the plaster skim coat is applied on the
> drywall.
> To apply the micro to the surface, use a 6-inch metal trowel. Blob
> all the micro (the mixed batch) to the middle of the surface and
> then trowel it in the direction toward yourself first to one edge,
> then run around and to the other side edge. Always go in the
> direction of the curve. The trowel is run very flat to the surface
> and good pressure, you hold it by both hands by the top part of
> the blade with all fingers on top and thumbs in the bottom the get
> a good grip, bend the handle up about 30 degrees to get it out of
> the way. The low angle and plenty of pressure are important
> because that is what pushes the air bubbles that got mixed in to
> the micro out of the micro. You will notice that at first it
> doesn't seem to want to stick and wants to roll off, but then when
> the surface starts to get wetted out, it goes on pretty smooth.
> You don't have much time thou, if you fuss with it too long or try
> to redo an area you did a few minutes ago, it will start to tear
> up, lift off and break up. This is because o lot of resin migrated
> onto the surface and the micro starts to slide on it and unstuck
> from the surface easily, remember this important tip, if you make
> a pass and you see the micro breaking up make a pass in the
> opposite direction, that will smooth it right up, but then just
> stop fussing with it. The thickness if the coat should be
> somewhere between 1/8 to of an inch, you shouldn't have any lows
> on your surface deeper then 1/8 of an inch .A little bit too much
> is better then a little bit not enough because it's still easier
> to sand off some extra then having to refill again. It takes some
> practice, if you want to see how thick it is , just dip a Popsicle
> stick in to it. As a general rule, start the filling on smaller,
> single curve surfaces like the tail, then large single curve
> surfaces like wings, and last the most difficult compound curved
> parts on the fuselage, engine cowl, wing fillet so that the level
> of difficulty goes up along with your filling and sanding learning
> curve. On filling the compound shapes the flat metal trowel will
> not work, for those you need to use a flexible plastic squeegee.
> With 4 fingers on top and the thumb against the bottom you can
> "cap" the squeegee so it follows the curve. Home depot sells nice
> ones in a tri pack of 5, 4 and 2.5 inch wide. On a part like a
> fuselage where you will not be able to fill the whole surface at
> once, try to divide it so bring the edges to a break like a corner
> where blending of one fill into another is easiest. If the
> fuselage is oval, do the break where the curve is the sharpest,
> its much easier to blend it there then on the shallow curve. It
> should take about 2 hours to fill one wing panel on a small
> two-seater, up to about 4 hours on a big four-seater.
>
> *_Sanding _*
> There are three aspects of the sanding technique that will enable
> you to arrive to that perfect straight wave free surface.
> First, you must use the right size an shape sanding tool for a
> given job, different shapes require different tool, boards,
> blocks, tubes, long and short as needed, Many builders don't
> realize (or disregard) the importance of the right sanding tools.
> Trying to sand with a chunk of triple folded sandpaper pushed
> along with bear hand is not going to work too well. You will find
> it a great paradox if you visit somebody's workshop who claims
> spending hundreds of hours on finish sanding his airplane and yet
> you won't be able to find a decent sanding board in his shop. Make
> yourself two basic sanding boards 2,3/4 inch wide 16 and 32 inches
> long, for the length of one and two strips of sandpaper. I think
> the best is to use that white shelving material. You need to
> attach an 1 x 1 aluminum square tube or a "C" channel to the
> back side of it with some screws, that will keep it straight and
> also gives you a good grip so you can hold on to it. The 32 inch
> one will be used on the wings, 16 inch on the tail, control
> surfaces and flat parts of the fuselage. For compound surfaces you
> will need to make flexible sanding boards. Not many people know
> this as I have never seen it mentioned anywhere but it will make
> you work a lot easier when the sanding board bends under the
> pressure and follows the curve of the surface. You will need two
> boards, one should flex rather easy for highly curved surfaces and
> one should be fairly stiff for mild curves. The 16 inches length
> of these flexible boards should be enough . Use thin plywood,
> Plexiglas, or whatever works for you. Get the real sandpaper from
> auto paint supply store, the one that comes in 16 inch long
> strips, they usually carry the best, the 3M brand is pretty sure
> bet. The sandpaper grades needed are 36, 80 and 100. Glue it on
> with 3M Super 77 spray adhesive (Home depot), spray on only a
> light coat of it, that stuff sticks like hell. To remove the worn
> out paper, heat it up with a heat gun, it will peel right off.
> On tube shape sanding tools the strips will not work, for those,
> get the big sheets for floor sanding from Home depot.
> The second aspects of the sanding technique is the proper sanding
> pattern. For an airfoil shape surface, hold the sanding board
> parallel (at all times) to the span and sand at 45 degrees angle,
> use the longest (reasonable) stroke, across the whole cord if
> possible. Start at the root end leading edge side and move slowly
> to the tip end with each stroke moved about an inch or two,
> creating a sort of a tall tight zigzag pattern. When you get to
> the tip, go back to the root and start another pass, this time
> sanding at 45 degrees the other way - 90 degrees to the first
> pass. After these two passes move yourself to the trailing edge
> side and make two passes from there, again starting the first pass
> at 90 degrees to the previous one, and then keep repeating this
> cycle. It is this sanding pattern, that will level out the highs
> and lows into a nice even flowing plain and create the desired
> wave free surface.
> The third aspect is you checking the surface frequently for high
> areas and directing more attention to them. The best way to check
> the trueness of the surface is to feel it by sliding your hand
> over the surface in long sweeps in all different directions. If
> you have never tried this you will be amazed to find out how
> sensitive your hand is to even minute surface waves and
> unevenness. Direct more sanding to the identified high areas and
> pass quicker over the low ones to speed up the process. If
> everything goes right, you will have good straight surface just
> before you remove all the filler and the high spots of the skin
> start showing through the filler. Keep sanding off the excess
> filler until the highs start to show up as dark spots across the
> whole surface. At this point you need to change the sandpaper
> grade to 80 for the final sanding stage so you can remove the deep
> scratches left by the 36 grade. Do the final once-over with a 100
> grade and that's as fine as you need to go on this. They say a
> picture is worth a thousand words. Luckily I have some good ones
> to show you what it should look like at this point. On the picture
> below the right wing has just been filled and is curing while I'm
> sanding the left one
>
>
> This is a close up of the filed right wing
>
>
> Here the left wing is sanded and the right wing is just getting
> started. Its hard to take a picture of an all white surface, it
> tends to get overexposed and the details are lost but looking at
> the pattern of the dark spots will give you pretty good idea what
> it should look like.
>
>
> This is the horizontal stabilizer just at the point when the
> shaping is done and when I switch to finer grade paper. You can
> see the cross hatch sanding pattern there. The dark spots will get
> quite a bit darker by the time all deep scratches are gone.
>
>
> It should take about 4 hours to sand one wing panel to shape on a
> small two-seater, up to about 8 hours on a big four-seater.
> *Compound curved surfaces *are a little harder to do. Keep
> basically the same crisscross 45 degree pattern relative to the
> direction of the milder curve with your flexible sanding board,
> but pay a lot more attention to "feeling" the surface and sanding
> off the highs. By the time you do all your flying surfaces you
> will be pretty good at it.
> *_Detailing _
> *There are three kinds of details we have on the plane to deal
> with, fillets where components come together and meet at different
> angles, fitting of access and inspection panels and uniform
> control surfaces gaps.
> Take a note here, if you decide to do the control surfaces gaps,
> you need to do them Before the general surface filling of the
> control surfaces, that way the filler is brought up to and blended
> to the level required to close the gaps at the nose area of that
> control surface.
> *Filets *are fairly easy, shape a corner of a plastic squeegee to
> the desired radius and use that to shape the applied micro into
> the fillet radius . Run the squeegee back and forth in alternating
> directions very flat at first to evenly distribute the micro, then
> start standing it up with each pass to gradually remove the excess
> micro and arrive to the final radius. Use the tube sanding tool
> that closely matches the radius to sand it smooth.
> *Inspection panels *. In order to have good looking access and
> inspection panels, or any other openings like gear doors and
> baggage compartments doors or even an engine cowling if its fitted
> flush with the fuselage, you need to create a small even gap
> around them. Here is the trick how to do that. Fist make sure the
> covers are exact size and shape, round off the corners, square
> corners dont look right. Apply clear package sealing tape to the
> backside and wherever needed as a release and mount the covers
> into exact position. Now squeegee the micro all around the recess,
> or over the whole cover if the height of it is not even, and then
> run a mixing stick all around the cover tight against the edge to
> create a nice line around it. Cutting down the width of the mixing
> stick will help it to go around the corners without widening the
> gap and dipping the mixing stick in lacquer thinner will prevent
> micro from sticking to the stick and help to keep the line edges
> nice and smooth.
> *Control surfaces gaps *Ever heard about those incredible even
> Quarter thickness gaps that dont change a bit, even when you move
> the surface ? Here is how to make them. Apply several plies of
> duck tape on the underside of the trailing edge to build up the
> desired gap thickness. Put clear packaging tape over it (its
> slicker and slides better), you will probably be able to handle
> only one side at the time. Apply plenty of micro to the nose of
> the control surface to fill the intended gap and then some. Cover
> the micro with a plastic sheet, using thicker stiffer kind on this
> works better, install the control surface into its hinges and
> slowly move it up and down through the whole travel so that the
> excess micro is pushed out. Viola, after the duck tape build up is
> removed, you have a beautiful small and even gap through the whole
> control surface travel. Before you start removing the excess micro
> that got pushed off mark the ends of the travel with a good line
> as reference so you dont lose it and sand into it later. before
> filling the rest of the surface, cover the finished gap part with
> the duck tape to preserve it.
> This concludes the first stage, the surface shaping.
>
> *_Surface finishing _*
> is the second stage of the work when we remove all the nicks,
> pits, tears and finally the scratches. First, vacuum the surface,
> you need to get all the sanding dust out of the nicks so you can
> see them and fill them. Micro does not work on small nicks, it has
> too coarse consistency. You can use the Superfil which is much
> smoother or you can mix your own filler by adding cab-o-sil along
> with microbaloons. To mix this filler, get a coffee can, fill it
> 1/3 with microbaloons first, then 1/3 Cab-o-sil. Leave the last
> third empty so you can mix it well and add more of either
> substance if you want to adjust the ratio, throw some wood blocks
> in to help mixing it, put the lid on and mix it well. Fill the
> nicks with a small one inch metal spatula. Squeegee the filler on
> to fill the nick but scrape all the excess from the surface, it
> would be very hard to sand. That way you will do only light
> sanding over those spots to remove the leftover fuzz. To get the
> right perspective what size of the nicks is big enough to fill and
> which is too small to be bothered with, use the rule, if you can
> see it from two feet away, fill it. Another way to look at it if
> the nick is no deeper then a scratch left by a 36 grid sandpaper.
> *_Pinholes _*
> These are tiny voids, bubbles and pits caused by air mixed into
> the filler. They are invisible until the minute you start spraying
> the first coat of primer. They can give you a big headache if you
> attack them the wrong way. You might have heard horror stories of
> builders spraying coat after coat of primer trying to get rid of
> them. The bottom line is, you cannot fill the pinholes by
> spraying. Yes, if you keep spraying long enough, eventually they
> will disappear, but they will not be filled, they will be bridged.
> Bridged pinholes can cause the painted surface to develop little
> pimple like bumps on the sun when the paint softens some and the
> trapped air expands with the heat.
> Luckily, we have a simple effective way how to deal with pinholes
> before we even see any. Vacuum the surface real well to remove any
> dust and then squeegee pure epoxy resin over the surface. The coat
> is very thin and the amount of resin is mall, you are basically
> just wetting the surface, give it some time to soak in and
> squeegee off all the excess. The resin has very low surface
> tension so it flows into all those small voids and because unlike
> primers it doesnt contain any volatiles it doesnt shrink as it
> cures so the fill is complete. The second benefit of this step is
> that the resins hardens the top shell of the micro, making it more
> durable.
> A word of caution, many epoxy resins do not cure well and stay
> gummy at very thin coat, especially in humid condition. If yours
> is one of those or you are not sure, use the West system epoxy for
> this.
> When this top coat is cured sand it lightly with 100 just to break
> the gloss, and you are ready for the primer.
> *The primer* used in this step is a "high build up" kind, intended
> for final wet sanding. There are many on the market so I cant say
> you must use this , or cannot use that, except maybe for one. You
> may have seen reference in other articles (especially the older
> ones) to use "Feather fill". I have used it and I dont understand
> how anybody can recommend it . This is one of the worst products I
> have seen in my life.
>
>
> I have been using two kinds of primers so far.
> One is "PPG K200" this is acrylic urethane (two part 4:1), very
> fast drying, easy to spray, dark yellow in color. Available from
> auto paint supply stores. It wet sands very easy, however it has
> rather soft properties even when cured. Mishandling of parts can
> dent and scratch the surface rather easily.
> The other kind is epoxy based "US Paint D9002 base /D3002
> converter" (Two part 1:1). Also dark yellow, available from marine
> supply stores ( www.uspaint.com <http://www.uspaint.com> ) This
> primer takes longer to dry and its a bit harder to sand but it is
> very hard and durable when fully cured. I myself prefer the better
> durability, even if it takes more work.
> I have not had a chance to try "Poly-fiber Smooth Prime" but I
> plan on it.
>
>
> *Wet sanding *is done by still keeping the same 45 degrees
> crisscross pattern but the sanding blocks are a lot smaller, 11x3
> inches for large parts 5.5x3 for the smaller ones. I use pieces of
> hard foam as sanding blocks. Use the same "super 77 spray
> adhesive" and spray just very light mist on it to attach it, it
> will peel off without the need of heating it up. Start with 180
> grade for fast progress but be aware 180 leaves pretty deep
> scratches that would show in the paint so switch to 220 grade for
> the second half of the job. On the contrary to some peoples
> believe, 1 sheet of wet sandpaper does not last forever, it just
> isnt as obvious its getting dull by looking at it so change the
> paper often.
> To check the progression and quality of the surface use the
> squeegee technique. Pour some water over the surface and squeegee
> it off with a rubber window squeegee (Home depot has those), all
> the remaining pits will become instantly visible. Keep sanding and
> checking until they are all gone. Dont go crazy if you have a few
> deeper nicks left here and there, and dont sand flat spots or
> dips into your surface in order to get rid of them. They will be
> filled instead.
> For this last filling use polyester based "glazing putty" (auto
> paint supplies) This is very smooth creamy filler designed for
> minor imperfections. Before you start filling go over the whole
> surface carefully and mark all imperfections to be filled with a
> pencil so you dont have too look for them while your mixed putty
> is curing. Mix the glazing filler in small batches, it has very
> short pot life so you have only a few minutes on each batch.
> Squeegee it on with a small metal spatula and scrape off any
> excess. Wet sand the spots after they cure and you are done.
>
>
> There will be one more coat of primer but that is as a part of
> painting . Every paint system normally has its own primer that
> goes on just before the paint to insure good paint adhesion.
> This is where I leave it, Im not an expert on painting so with
> the paint you are on your own.
>
>
> *_Legal disclaimer _*
> This is only one mans opinion and my contradict with experience
> and advice of others.
>
> You can distribute and link to this page freely, comments and
> questions are welcomed.
>
>
> Back to main page <http://curedcomposites.netfirms.com/index.html>
>
>
> <http://www.webcounter.cz/>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 16/09/2008 7:06 PM
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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