---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/22/08: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:54 AM - Re: Adjusting the tailplanes (Robert C Harrison) 2. 01:06 AM - Re: back in the Air ... (N81EU) (Robert C Harrison) 3. 01:06 AM - Re: back in the Air ... (N81EU) (Robert C Harrison) 4. 03:18 AM - Re: Would like to buy an XS monowheel...............Am I mad or soon to be enlightened? (A B Milne) 5. 03:40 AM - Fw: (Herve) 6. 03:58 AM - stainless tubing (Richard Iddon) 7. 04:16 AM - Fw: (Herve) 8. 05:08 AM - Re: Minimum Practical Field Length (Raimo Toivio) 9. 05:31 AM - Re: Would like to buy an XS monowheel...............Am I mad or soon to be enlightened? (Bryan Allsop) 10. 08:32 AM - Re: back in the Air ... (N81EU) (Greg Fuchs) 11. 11:35 AM - oil problems (danny shepherd) 12. 11:51 AM - Re: oil problems (rampil) 13. 11:53 AM - Re: back in the Air ... (N81EU) (rampil) 14. 11:56 AM - Re: Would like to buy an XS monowheel...............Am I mad or (rampil) 15. 11:57 AM - Re: Fw: (rampil) 16. 12:25 PM - Re: oil problems (Robert C Harrison) 17. 12:35 PM - Re: back in the Air ... (N81EU) (karelvranken) 18. 12:35 PM - Re: Re: oil problems (danny shepherd) 19. 01:40 PM - Re: oil problems (steve v) 20. 01:46 PM - cockpit module alignment (Rowland & Wilma Carson) 21. 02:03 PM - Re: cockpit module alignment (Tony Krzyzewski) 22. 02:48 PM - Re: oil problems (danny shepherd) 23. 02:49 PM - Re: Re: Would like to buy an XS monowheel...............Am I mad or (Bryan Allsop) 24. 05:09 PM - Re: Adjusting the tailplanes (danbish) 25. 08:40 PM - Re: cockpit module alignment (Fred Klein) 26. 11:26 PM - Re: cockpit module alignment (Kingsley Hurst) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:55 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Adjusting the tailplanes Hi! Dan Can't help with the adjusters but I recall 8 years ago finding out that Andy Draper wanted 1 deg more than the 12 deg in the manual and wouldn't do the first flight test until I got it to 13 deg. actually by grinding away the balance weight "up stop". I think the adjusters mostly only change the range of operation to the control stick (may be wrong here) but I think the limiting factor is always the bump stop of the balance weights at the top and bottom. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of danbish Sent: 22 September 2008 06:57 Subject: Europa-List: Adjusting the tailplanes Hi all, I've been double checking my tailplanes prior to putting the top on and found some discrepencies from my orginal measure measurements of 5 deg. down and 13 deg up. I assume this is from the upgrade to mod 70. Sure thought I had it adjusted, but glad I checked. So, instead of the above, I have 5.7 deg down and 11.2 deg up. Maybe someone out there can save me some head scratching and a whole lot of hassle fiddling with bolts in and out numerous times to get this set right, so here are my questions: 1) The TP18 has a rod end on it (TP18C). I seem to remember this is what I'll use to make adjustments. Will screwing that out (more threads showing) give me more degress of upward travel as I need? Or should it be screwed in more? 2) Does the Main pitch push rod need to be adjusted also? I know this may seem like a simple thing to figure out but I know someone's bound to have made a lot of these adjustments and has a simple way to get the right results. As always, your help is much appreciated. :D Dan Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:06:00 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: back in the Air ... (N81EU) Well done Thomas ! What weight is it now? Somewhat gratifying that the trike main gear sockets withstood the bending of the legs? Pleased to meet up with you anytime at EGNW and I'll pay your landing fee. Best regards to a circumnavigator. Bob Harrison G-PTAG (Kit 337 now with 914 and Woodcomp Prop.) PS did a run up yesterday and could only make 4,300 even with the turbo! Found crap in the Andair Gascolator from where I know not, but pleased I did a substantial run up, which is usually quite limited since the brakes won't hold it and I had ground cooling problems another lesson learnt ! -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Scherer Sent: 21 September 2008 21:46 Subject: Europa-List: back in the Air ... (N81EU) further to my eMail of Feb. 25th, 2007 I am glad to report that N81EU took to the Air again today. The harder-than-normal landing last year had sheared off one main wheel, bent the other and torn off the nosewheel, cracked into pieces the engine mount, folded like an accordeon the central tunnel and made three parts out of a fabulous fuselage. Reason was an engine failure right after take-off. I later found that during the exchange of a fuel filter, some debris from the aging fuel line had entered the filter opening and allowed sufficient fuel flow for the run-up and taxi, but full-take-off power was available for only some 80 ft of altitude. It took me longer than anticipated to rebuild - mainly due to the fact that my employer sent me to Calcutta for one year, but today finally she (for a second time) reverted from a mountain of nuts and fibres and metal bits into a flying machine. Work goes easier the second time around. So for those who think it takes long to build a Europa I'd recommend to build a second one. Trust me: it goes faster. Lot remains to be done: the wheels want fairings, the propeller does exhibit some vibration and a Trio autopilot awaits installation. But what an exhiliarating moment again to sit up high in the air with a plane built by one-self. Attached photos (before -/- after). ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:06:00 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: back in the Air ... (N81EU) Well done Thomas ! What weight is it now? Somewhat gratifying that the trike main gear sockets withstood the bending of the legs? Pleased to meet up with you anytime at EGNW and I'll pay your landing fee. Best regards to a circumnavigator. Bob Harrison G-PTAG (Kit 337 now with 914 and Woodcomp Prop.) PS did a run up yesterday and could only make 4,300 even with the turbo! Found crap in the Andair Gascolator from where I know not, but pleased I did a substantial run up, which is usually quite limited since the brakes won't hold it and I had ground cooling problems another lesson learnt ! -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Thomas Scherer Sent: 21 September 2008 21:46 Subject: Europa-List: back in the Air ... (N81EU) further to my eMail of Feb. 25th, 2007 I am glad to report that N81EU took to the Air again today. The harder-than-normal landing last year had sheared off one main wheel, bent the other and torn off the nosewheel, cracked into pieces the engine mount, folded like an accordeon the central tunnel and made three parts out of a fabulous fuselage. Reason was an engine failure right after take-off. I later found that during the exchange of a fuel filter, some debris from the aging fuel line had entered the filter opening and allowed sufficient fuel flow for the run-up and taxi, but full-take-off power was available for only some 80 ft of altitude. It took me longer than anticipated to rebuild - mainly due to the fact that my employer sent me to Calcutta for one year, but today finally she (for a second time) reverted from a mountain of nuts and fibres and metal bits into a flying machine. Work goes easier the second time around. So for those who think it takes long to build a Europa I'd recommend to build a second one. Trust me: it goes faster. Lot remains to be done: the wheels want fairings, the propeller does exhibit some vibration and a Trio autopilot awaits installation. But what an exhiliarating moment again to sit up high in the air with a plane built by one-self. Attached photos (before -/- after). (breaks your heart, doesn't it ?) (the compass was unhurt) (taken today after the flight at airfield EDAL - former East Germany) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:18:36 AM PST US From: "A B Milne" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Would like to buy an XS monowheel...............Am I mad or soon to be enlightened? Obviously mad. What you need is a new Trigear so that you can play at being a biggy on all those hard runways we tour to. My G CBYN tri is for sale! ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob Hitchcock To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:47 AM Subject: Europa-List: Would like to buy an XS monowheel...............Am I mad or soon to be enlightened? I have had a terrific amount of fun in my current Europa tri, but for sundry reasons I am ready for a new challenge. Just to remind myself of the joys of piloting tail wheel (Have about 50 hours on them from years ago), I undertook a bespoke tailwheel refresher last week and had my booked stamped on completion. My grin returned. A thought lingers and that thought is I should like to buy an XS monowheel............... Am I mad or soon to be enlightened? Regards Bob ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:31 AM PST US From: Herve Subject: Europa-List: Fwd: >Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:36:12 +0100 >To: europa-list@matronics.comHi >From: Herve > >Hi all, >on my panel to my europa ,rotax 914,I have a flydat and the reading >I am getting at the moment on the EGT is as follow. >822-----> then -41------>112 > 695------>111 >any comments? >G-CHET >Regards >Herve ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:39 AM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: Europa-List: stainless tubing Somewhat off topic but I have a need for a couple of short lengths of stainless tubing approx 4in x 8mm. internal diameter (not for the Europa). I wonder of anyone might have any such bits lying around? Richard Iddon G-RIXS Do not archive ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:16:50 AM PST US From: Herve Subject: Europa-List: Fwd: >Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:39:19 +0100 >To: europa-list@matronics.com >From: Herve >Subject: Fwd: > > >>Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:36:12 +0100 >>To: europa-list@matronics.comHi >>From: Herve >> >>Hi all, >>on my panel to my europa ,rotax 914,I have a flydat and the reading >>I am getting at the moment on the EGT is as follow. >>822-----> then -41------>112 >> 695------>111 >>any comments? >>G-CHET >>Regards >>Herve ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:08:30 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Minimum Practical Field Length I visited yesterday EFNS which is 440 m long grass strip near Helsinki. No obstacles behind the hedges - its open field. Grass was quite long let=B4s say 100-150 mm /4-6" and wet. Headwind was about 5 knots. Landing was easy but during takeoff I woud not like to have any problems. My plane is mono w 912S, fixed Warp 20,5 degrees, weight was near 650 kg /1430 lbs. Raimo OH-XRT ----- Original Message ----- From: C Richardson To: Europa Forum Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2008 12:03 PM Subject: Europa-List: Minimum Practical Field Length I happily operate my Tri-gear - 912S - from 500 metres ( 1640 ft ) hedge to hedge. No obstacles beyond the hedges. The strip is 945 feet high. The only situation which might be critical is the abandoned take-off but I have the luxury of being able to turn either way on the ground, at the end of the deceleration, because the strip is in a 150 metre wide field. For a straight strip with no turns possible I would say 2,000 ft ( 610 mtrs ) would be safe. John - G-BXGG ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:31:35 AM PST US From: Bryan Allsop Subject: RE: Europa-List: Would like to buy an XS monowheel...............Am I mad or soon to be enlightened? Bob=2C You are clearly sane! Carry two people =2Cand 80 pounds of baggage faster and further than those none retractables. Land where they can't. Throw it around like a fighter. I t does not get any better than that. Enjoy your enlightenment. Bryan _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!5 50F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:32:39 AM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: back in the Air ... (N81EU) Congratulations Tom, on your rebuild. It must be nice getting the girl back into the air. Love the new upgraded paint job. It is all ready for another round-the-world trip! Greg Fuchs Subject: Europa-List: back in the Air ... (N81EU) further to my eMail of Feb. 25th, 2007 I am glad to report that N81EU took to the Air again today. But what an exhiliarating moment again to sit up high in the air with a plane built by one-self. Attached photos (before -/- after). ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:04 AM PST US From: danny shepherd Subject: Europa-List: oil problems Hi All, Last Saturday my test pilot started the ground testing. He carried out the taxi checks, bedded in the brakes, did a fast taxi down the runway, all the t's and p's perfect. Oil pressure 4 bar, The engine ran quite cool, (no signs of over heating) All together he ran the engine for about 45 minutes. When he taxied back to the hangar the engine dumped most of the oil on the tarmac. Rather worrying!! We took off the cowls and every thing looked o k. The pipes are correct (the right orientation) and there are no kinks in them. So far the engine has run for nearly four hours with no problem. Has anyone else had similar problems? does anyone have any suggestions ?. It was going to have it's maiden flight next Saturday, but !!!!!!!!!! Cheers Danny (worried) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:51:57 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: oil problems From: "rampil" Dan what was the source of the leak? was it from the overflow line or from someplace oil should not be seen externally. Also, how much oil literally. Does you "most" really mean most of 3 liters? -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5538#205538 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:53:37 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: back in the Air ... (N81EU) From: "rampil" Nice Job, Thomas! -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5539#205539 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:56:41 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Would like to buy an XS monowheel...............Am I mad or From: "rampil" On the other hand, I've seen pilots ranging in experience from newbie to 747 senior captain prop strike and ground loop with damage monowheels. I for one, spent too much time building my trike to risk the airframe and engine like that. Building was fun, but flying is more fun. Cheers, -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5543#205543 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:58 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fwd: From: "rampil" most likely loose electrical connections. Could be a a bad T/C. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5544#205544 ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:25:13 PM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: oil problems Hi! Danny You don't say what engine. I have a 914 and initially it blew about half a litre of oil and condensate through into the muffler I understand the turbo oil seal is ceramic and this is to be expected on initial runs. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of danny shepherd Sent: 22 September 2008 19:34 Subject: Europa-List: oil problems Hi All, Last Saturday my test pilot started the ground testing. He carried out the taxi checks, bedded in the brakes, did a fast taxi down the runway, all the t's and p's perfect. Oil pressure 4 bar, The engine ran quite cool, (no signs of over heating) All together he ran the engine for about 45 minutes. When he taxied back to the hangar the engine dumped most of the oil on the tarmac. Rather worrying!! We took off the cowls and every thing looked o k. The pipes are correct (the right orientation) and there are no kinks in them. So far the engine has run for nearly four hours with no problem. Has anyone else had similar problems? does anyone have any suggestions ?. It was going to have it's maiden flight next Saturday, but !!!!!!!!!! Cheers Danny (worried) ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:41 PM PST US From: "karelvranken" Subject: Re: Europa-List: back in the Air ... (N81EU) New8, congratulations! As good as ever. Karel Vranken, F-PKRL ----- Original Message ----- From: Thomas Scherer To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2008 10:45 PM Subject: Europa-List: back in the Air ... (N81EU) further to my eMail of Feb. 25th, 2007 I am glad to report that N81EU took to the Air again today. The harder-than-normal landing last year had sheared off one main wheel, bent the other and torn off the nosewheel, cracked into pieces the engine mount, folded like an accordeon the central tunnel and made three parts out of a fabulous fuselage. Reason was an engine failure right after take-off. I later found that during the exchange of a fuel filter, some debris from the aging fuel line had entered the filter opening and allowed sufficient fuel flow for the run-up and taxi, but full-take-off power was available for only some 80 ft of altitude. It took me longer than anticipated to rebuild - mainly due to the fact that my employer sent me to Calcutta for one year, but today finally she (for a second time) reverted from a mountain of nuts and fibres and metal bits into a flying machine. Work goes easier the second time around. So for those who think it takes long to build a Europa I'd recommend to build a second one. Trust me: it goes faster. Lot remains to be done: the wheels want fairings, the propeller does exhibit some vibration and a Trio autopilot awaits installation. But what an exhiliarating moment again to sit up high in the air with a plane built by one-self. Attached photos (before -/- after). ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:41 PM PST US From: danny shepherd Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: oil problems Ira, We think it was from the overflow line. There was a smear of oil round the engine. It's taken over 2 lts to top it up again. Danny rampil wrote: > > Dan > > what was the source of the leak? was it from the overflow line or > from someplace oil should not be seen externally. > Also, how much oil literally. Does you "most" really mean most > of 3 liters? > > -------- > Ira N224XS > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 5538#205538 > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:32 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: oil problems From: "steve v " Hi Danny, where did the oil leak/blow from? steve #573 Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:28 PM PST US From: Rowland & Wilma Carson Subject: Europa-List: cockpit module alignment I've managed to be ill in bed with a fever during the recent dry weather and so missed a chance to do the spar bush alignemnt stuff outdoors, but I have another problem that's bothering me. I attach 6 fairly small pictures which I hope illustrate what I'm talking about. I have fitted the bearings for both ends of the CS05 torque tubes and was pretty happy with the way it was all going until I put the cockpit module into the lower fuselage moulding (see picture DSCN2491.jpg) to do the check of stick movement as advised in the manual (page 13-10). If I don't sit in the CM, all is fine and movement of the sticks is constrained only by the cockpit sides and tunnel. However, when I sit in it, the movement is considerably reduced; with only about 100mm deflection left or right from centre at the top of the stick, there's a graunching noise as the corners of CS07/08 scrape against the fuselage floor. You'll see in the picture that the outlines of the brown foam inserts in the lower moulding don't seem to have any real relationship with the various cutouts and shapes of the CM. I'd have thought that perhaps they would line up in places. They are not even symmetrical port & starboard (the seats, on my CM anyway, have slightly different shapes P & S). I phoned up the factory when I found this and Roger assured me that all will be well when the CM & lower moulding are bonded and thus stiffened. However, as I look at things more closely, I am not much comforted by that. The cockpit flange at the bottom of the seat backrest is supported by only fresh air, in the middle of the green area across the middle of picture DSCN2496.jpg, and any pressure on the seat pan will bend the CM down into that depression. That causes CS07/08 to touch the fuselage floor where the small black marks can be seen on the brown area at the rear of the green stripe. I checked that the clearance for CS07/08 is correct (~6mm) as per the manual (picture DSCN2501.jpg), but the depression in the green stripe is about 4mm deep (picture DSCN2513.jpg) so if the CM is pushed down ito that locally the clearance will be badly compromised. Picture DSCN2515.jpg shows the width of the green depression, with a ruler placed against the port CS07/08 witness mark. The depression lies from about 25mm to 100mm on the ruler. Picture DSCN2516.jpg shows the same ruler positioned on the CM underside against CS07, demonstrating that the CM flange across the seat-backs falls between the 25mm mark and the 100mm mark. I think the engineering solution is to put packing between the CM and the fuselage where there is no foam layer, so that the Redux will not need to bridge the full 4mm gap. But what packing? It's got to be at least as strong as the Redux. Maybe I should go the (expensive) route of putting in a layer of Redux first with release film to fill the gap, as I did on the ribs when closing the wings. Has anyone else found this problem? Or is my CM/fuselage moulding a mismatched pair? All input appreciated! regards Rowland -- | Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/ | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 02:03:29 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: cockpit module alignment From: "Tony Krzyzewski" >> I phoned up the factory when I found this and Roger assured me that all will be well when the CM & lower moulding are bonded and thus stiffened. However, as I look at things more closely, I am not much comforted by that. Rowland, I don't think that you have a problem. There is a lot of flexibility in the bottom molding until the cockpit module is bonded in. I did a similar "pre flight" test sitting in the cockpit module before it had been bonded in and had exactly the same result. Once the module is bonded everything stiffens up quite considerably and you'll find that the clearance that you currently have without the weight of your body on it will be maintained. Tony ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:48:10 PM PST US From: danny shepherd Subject: Re: Europa-List: oil problems Steve, We think it blew back out of the overflow pipe. I'll probably take the a/c back home for further investigation. Danny steve v wrote: > > Hi Danny, > where did the oil leak/blow from? > > steve #573 > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:49:14 PM PST US From: Bryan Allsop Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Would like to buy an XS monowheel...............Am I mad or I suppose that those who have needed to bolt on fixed undercarriages to a b eautiful aeroplane=2C would wish to justify it. Whilst I have never "seen" experienced pilots with damaged nose wheels=2C I know of plenty who have. Meanwhile=2C the many happy "Mono" flyers quietly fly on=2C with more fun. Bryan > Subject: Europa-List: Re: Would like to buy an XS monowheel.............. .Am I mad or> From: ira.rampil@gmail.com> Date: Mon=2C 22 Sep 2008 11:56:23 "rampil" > > On the other hand=2C I've seen pilots r anging in experience from newbie> to 747 senior captain prop strike and gro und loop with damage > monowheels.> > I for one=2C spent too much time buil ding my trike to risk the airframe> and engine like that. Building was fun =2C but flying is more fun.> > Cheers=2C> > --------> Ira N224XS> > > > > R ead this topic online here:> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p ========================> _ ================> > > _________________________________________________________________ Get more out of the Web. Learn 10 hidden secrets of Windows Live. http://windowslive.com/connect/post/jamiethomson.spaces.live.com-Blog-cns!5 50F681DAD532637!5295.entry?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_domore_092008 ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:09:56 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Adjusting the tailplanes From: "danbish" Ah, that makes sense. Except if too much weight is taken off to get them in balance? Thanks for the help. Dan Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 08:40:08 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: cockpit module alignment From: Fred Klein > I think the engineering solution is to put packing between the CM and > the fuselage where there is no foam layer, so that the Redux will not > need to bridge the full 4mm gap. > There is a lot of flexibility in the bottom molding until the cockpit > module is bonded in. Rowland, I'd tend to go along w/ Tony K's comment, though I did not experience the issue you're having. One consideration may be your method of supporting the canoe. I built one of Chuck Popenoe's knock down support frames (3/4" plywood formers w/ foam pipe insulation spaced w/ 2 x 4s running fore and aft) which gives much more support than the sketch of the support frame provided me by Europa back in 200?. In any case, don't hesitate to lay the Redux on thick when the time comes to bond in the CM and take care as to not localize pressure with blocking and strapping. Hope this helps, Fred A194 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:04 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Re: Europa-List: cockpit module alignment Hello Rowland, Sorry to learn you have been crook but nice to know you are back on deck again. > However, when I sit in it, the movement is considerably > reduced; with only about 100mm deflection left or right from centre > at the top of the stick, there's a graunching noise as the corners of > CS07/08 scrape against the fuselage floor. I had the same problem with the bottom corners of the CS08s contacting the fuselage floor. My solution for this was to locally remove the inner glass plies and then to sand out the foam leaving it chamfered around the edges to ramp back up to the floor level. I then laid up two plies of bid into the indentation lapping over the edges of the floor previously cut. This gives the best part of 3mm extra clearance. I also filed away any excess material on the bottom corners of the CS08s as well. > You'll see in the picture that the outlines of the brown foam inserts > in the lower moulding don't seem to have any real relationship with > the various cut-outs and shapes of the CM. I'd have thought that > perhaps they would line up in places. They are not even symmetrical > port & starboard (the seats, on my CM anyway, have slightly different > shapes P & S). I understand where you are coming from with this Rowland. It is a long while since I did mine but from memory, all of the cockpit module parts to be bonded should mate with glass only sections in the fuselage. It his is not the case, would removing some extra material from the module allow this? > The cockpit flange at the bottom of the seat backrest is supported by > only fresh air, in the middle of the green area across the middle of > picture DSCN2496.jpg, and any pressure on the seat pan will bend the > CM down into that depression. Is this because some parts of the module are resting on foam sandwiched areas of the fuselage as mentioned in my last comment ? > That causes CS07/08 to touch the > fuselage floor where the small black marks can be seen on the brown > area at the rear of the green stripe. I checked that the clearance > for CS07/08 is correct (~6mm) as per the manual (picture > DSCN2501.jpg), but the depression in the green stripe is about 4mm > deep (picture DSCN2513.jpg) so if the CM is pushed down into that > locally the clearance will be badly compromised. Assuming I am understanding this correctly, if the module is lowered such that the cockpit flange at the bottom of the seat backrest contacts the glass only area, the interference with the bottom of the CS08s will be worse, hence the need to remove material locally as mentioned above. Hope I have made SOME sense Rowland. Best regards Kingsley in Oz ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.