---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 10/12/08: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:33 AM - Boiling fuel due to underpressure? (Remi Guerner) 2. 07:04 AM - Re: Boiling fuel due to underpressure? (rampil) 3. 07:12 AM - Re: Boiling fuel due to underpressure? (Jeff B) 4. 08:24 AM - Re: Adhesive Question (rampil) 5. 08:58 AM - the next DOTH? (Paul Atkinson) 6. 11:56 AM - Re: the next DOTH? (Richard Iddon) 7. 12:41 PM - Re: the next DOTH? (Tony Krzyzewski) 8. 01:31 PM - Europa upholstery (Mike Gamble) 9. 01:55 PM - Update to sale price (Tony Krzyzewski) 10. 03:42 PM - Re: pitch torque tube attachments (Rowland & Wilma Carson) 11. 03:42 PM - Re: when to attach spar strap (Rowland & Wilma Carson) 12. 04:19 PM - Re: Boiling fuel due to underpressure? (Graham Singleton) 13. 04:22 PM - Re: Boiling fuel due to underpressure? (Frans Veldman) 14. 04:31 PM - Re: the next DOTH? (Mike Gregory) 15. 06:31 PM - Re: engine surging (kbcarpenter@comcast.net) 16. 07:52 PM - Engine surging (Jerry Rehn) 17. 08:03 PM - Re: engine surging (Jerry Rehn) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:33:30 AM PST US From: "Remi Guerner" Subject: Europa-List: Boiling fuel due to underpressure? I fully agree that this is normal. This phenomenon is caused by the loss of pressure across the filter. In spite of the fuel tank level being higher than the pumps, the pressure between the filter and the pump becomes low enough so that the liquid fuel turns partially into vapor. As soon as the fuel/vapor mixture exits the pump, the much higher pressure causes vapor to turn back to liquid. The higher the fuel flow, the higher the pressure loss across the filter. On the 914, when the engine is not running, there is of course no boost pressure and therefore the fully open fuel pressure regulator is sending all the fuel back to the tank. This is when the fuel flow across the filters is maximum. However, when the engine is running at max boost, more fuel pressure is required and the regulator sends a lot less fuel back to the tank. Therefore, at high power, the flow through the filters is greatly reduced and bubbles in the filters is less likely and possibly totally eliminated. Regarding the Europa supplied glass fuel filters, I have always thought that they are too small for the task. The high number of accidents or incidents due to clogged filters proves it. I strongly recommand the use of higher capacity filters especially with the 914. Higher capacity will also reduce the pressure loss and the likelihood of vapor bubbles in the filters. Regards Remi Guerner Hi guys, I now have 1250 hours and since new there have always been lots of bubbles in the filters.when the pump is running.? All i can do is reassure anyone that this is completely normal.? Don't know why but is OK. Pete Jeffers -----Original Message----- From: G-IANI Sent: Sat, 11 Oct 2008 16:06 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Boiling fuel due to underpressure? Frans The pumps behave as Gilles described. I have seen bubbles in the pumps at any temperature from 0C to 35C on a hot day and with various fuels. From experience this is nothing to worry about. The engine gets only what it needs from the pumps and continues to run very sweetly. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:28 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Boiling fuel due to underpressure? From: "rampil" Hi Remi, Can you point me in the direction of documentation of the "high number" of accidents or incidents involving fuel filters? In the US NTSB files, only one of 7 total Europa incidents was tied to the fuel system, and that one was due to blockage of the filter inlet by a chunk of rubber hose. The size of the filter area within the filter was not a factor in that case. FWIW, the most common accident factor was loss of directional control or poor pilot technique. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8363#208363 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:12:38 AM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: Boiling fuel due to underpressure? Frans, While the air bubble in the filter is not uncommon, you might want to check the selector valve. Slight chance that you have a leaking "O" ring. Other than that, get a hand operated suction pump and check the entire suction side of the system. Jeff - Baby Blue Frans Veldman wrote: > > I guess somebody here can tell me whether this is normal or not. > While testing my just finished fuel system on my 914, I noticed that quite some air was passing through the filters. (I temporarily use the factory supplied "glass" filters, to see what is going on and how much gunk will be collected during the fuel flow tests). I of course expected some air in the system, and also expected it to last some time before the last bubble would be gone. > > Today I decided to let the fuel pump run while I was doing some other things, just to see if there were no small leaks and to "flush" the fuel system. After some time I noticed that the "air" still wasn't gone, actually it got worse. It looks like massive amounts of air are sucked in, also regulary I hear the pumps swallowing some air. > > Although I have no fuel leaks if I leave the system alone, I suspected to have an air leak upstream the suction side of the filters. Air can pass through smaller holes than fuel I think. It doesn't matter whether I'm on Main or Reserve, so it had to be after the fuel selection valve and before the filters. Happy with that, because that is just one hose, and a Tee to both filters. > > Now I'm not too happy anymore, because after spending a few hours chasing this mystery air leak, I'm quite convinced there is no leak. Of course there could be air leaks in both connections before the fuel selection valve, but this would be a dual fault, and not too likely. > > If I close the fuel selection valve while the pumps are still running, the fuel in the filters is instantly gone. In fact, this is how I empty the filters before disconnecting them. After test #687 and disconnecting once again one of the filters, a few minutes after I got the filters sucked empty, I noticed how the air got sucked in again when I pulled the hose of it. It indicates that the vacuum is pretty good preserved during these few minutes, and this is in contradiction with the assumption that I have an air leak. At the same time, the amount of air I see through the fllters is increasing all the time, it looks at the moment like the air/fuel ratio is 50%. Still though, the pumps humm happy and don't seem to ingest much of this "air". Something is not right here. As indicated by two fuel flow sensors, there is 130 liters per hour of flow, and the fuel pressure is about 5 psi over the airbox pressure. (The engine is not running, can't do that yet because I'm not finish ed > with the rest of the installation). > > Before I go crazy completely, let me ask a question. Is it possible, that while the pumps are pumping 130 liters per hour through the system, that the underpressure on the suction side of the pumps just lowers the boiling point of the fuel so much that the fuel starts "boiling"? Maybe it is just normal to see all these bubbles dancing around in the fuel filters? If anyone has noticed this as well, please let me know, it saves me a lot of time chasing "ghost" air leaks. Temperature at the moment is a nice 20 Celcius and the airplane has been standing in the sun for a while. (Yup, I know that sun isn't good for composite airplanes, but messing with the fuel in a confined space isn't very good for me). > > It would explain why today it is much worse than yesterday evening: the temperature is much higher today, It also explains why the amount of "air" apparently sucked in is much more than the occasional burp I hear through the fuel pumps. > > If this is not normal, I can only suspect to have air leaks on both tank connections. Tiny enough not to let them drip overnight, but big enough to let massive amounts of air in while the pumps start running... > > Frans > > > > > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:24:22 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Adhesive Question From: "rampil" Hi Paul, This from the Reiff Website: "The only Thumbs Down we got was The Reiff sump pad proved difficult to install, due to adhesive bonding problems.. The problems described were not the fault of the J-B Weld epoxy, but of improper curing. The article states After two hours we turned on the element to accelerate the cure. However, our Installation Instructions indicate Do not plug in the heater to cure J-B Weld . Excessive heat ruins the cure." Sounds like JB-Weld! -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8372#208372 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:58:33 AM PST US From: "Paul Atkinson" Subject: Europa-List: the next DOTH? Does anyone know where this was taken? In case you can't read it, the inscription read:- The first aeroplane to land on a mountain in Great Britain did so on this spot on December 22nd 1926. John Leeming and Bert Hinkler in an Avro 585 Gosport landed here and after a short stay flew back to Woodford. Landing surface mainly grass, no restaurant and no landing fees but lots of red tape no doubt. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:56:37 AM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: RE: Europa-List: the next DOTH? Helvellyn in the Lake district. The Avro 585 took off from Woodford on the 22nd of December 1926 for a well planned landing on the mountain. It was not a crash but publicity stunt, undertaken to claim to be the first aircraft landing on a mountain in the UK. The pilot landed the aircraft on the flat top of Helvellyn and then took off again later and returned home. Pilot - Mr John F Leeming. Passenger - Mr Bert Hinkler. Avro Test Pilot. http://www.allenby.info/aircraft/ebph.html Richard Iddon G-RIXS -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Atkinson Sent: 12 October 2008 16:57 Subject: Europa-List: the next DOTH? Does anyone know where this was taken? In case you can't read it, the inscription read:- The first aeroplane to land on a mountain in Great Britain did so on this spot on December 22nd 1926. John Leeming and Bert Hinkler in an Avro 585 Gosport landed here and after a short stay flew back to Woodford. Landing surface mainly grass, no restaurant and no landing fees but lots of red tape no doubt. Do not archive Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 10/11/2008 3:59 PM ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:38 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: the next DOTH? From: "Tony Krzyzewski" >> Helvellyn in the Lake district. >> The Avro 585 took off from Woodford on the 22nd of December 1926 for a well planned landing on the mountain. And for those who don't know England too well, the definition of 'mountain' in England is a lot smaller than most other countries. Helvellyn is 3118ft/950 metres high and is superb 'mountain' to walk up. Tony ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:48 PM PST US From: "Mike Gamble" Subject: Europa-List: Europa upholstery Thanks for the feed-back re seats and carpets etc. I have a few samples from Matt in Cornwall - he will supply a kit of parts but no longer does the work himself. I am waiting to hear from Matthew Russell and will report back with my findings and choice. Mike ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:55:46 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Update to sale price From: "Tony Krzyzewski" For those who have browsed to my aircraft for sale page I have just updated the international prices to reflect the fact that the NZ dollar has dropped rather dramatically over the past week - resulting in a reduction in price for anyone interested in purchasing the kit in US Dollars. I am also making the instruments immediately available for separate purchase (including a Flightdek D180 with backup battery at a knock down price) http://www.kaon.co.nz/europa/europasale.html Regards Tony ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:17 PM PST US From: Rowland & Wilma Carson Subject: Re: Europa-List: pitch torque tube attachments At 2008-10-10 18:23 -0400 ALAN YERLY wrote: >You are right. If the metal arms are slightly wide, adjust with >washers as appropriate and if necessary, go to the next larger bolt >to ensure shank coverage and washer the nut to tighten appropriately At 2008-10-11 10:28 +0100 G-IANI wrote: >From what I have seen they all vary slightly. If you think about it the >trunnion is a piece of steel plate welded to the tube at right angles. It >is almost impossible to get the two sides to stay exactly parallel and the >correct distance apart. Even when carefully jigged into position the >thermal stress from the welding will make them move slightly as they cool >down Bud, Ian - thanks for your reassurance that my common sense is stil functioning! regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/ | 1140 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:42:17 PM PST US From: Rowland & Wilma Carson Subject: Re: Europa-List: when to attach spar strap At 2008-10-07 15:07 -0400 ALAN YERLY wrote: >The exact time to do the spar strap is up to you. I do it when >convenient after rig of the sockets. Be sure to set each wing at >the same incidence angle prior to glassing Bud - thanks for that advice. Sorry for delay in responding. I'm running into supply delays with adaptors for aluminium fuel lines, and with the in-tank fuel level sensors, so I'm looking for something else to do while waiting for deliveries. The closeness of fit of the pip-pin (noticeably tighter than the cap-screw with the allen key welded into it) in the spar bushes suggests to me that the spars will not move much relative to each other once it is inserted, but I will take care to check the relative wing incidences before doing the spar strap glass work. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson LAA #16532 http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/ | 1140 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:35 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Boiling fuel due to underpressure? Remi Guerner wrote: > Regarding the Europa supplied glass fuel filters, I have always > thought that they are too small for the task. The high number of > accidents or incidents due to clogged filters proves it. I strongly > recommand the use of higher capacity filters especially with the 914. > Higher capacity will also reduce the pressure loss and the likelihood > of vapor bubbles in the filters. > Regards > Remi Guerner Remi I think you are right, I recommend the Andair GAS 375, stops water and anything bigger than 70micron Graham ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:22:16 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Boiling fuel due to underpressure? From: "Frans Veldman" [quote:0fd8912cfa="air.guerner at orange.fr"] The higher the fuel flow, the higher the pressure loss across the filter. On the 914, when the engine is not running, there is of course no boost pressure and therefore the fully open fuel pressure regulator is sending all the fuel back to the tank. This is when the fuel flow across the filters is maximum. However, when the engine is running at max boost, more fuel pressure is required and the regulator sends a lot less fuel back to the tank. Therefore, at high power, the flow through the filters is greatly reduced and bubbles in the filters is less likely and possibly totally eliminated. -----[/quote:0fd8912cfa] Sorry, I don't get it. As far as I understand the fuel pump delivers a constant rate to the engine, and all the fuel not used by the engine is going back to the tank. At high power, still the same is being pumped to the engine, but as the engine is consuming more, less is being sent back to the tank. The fuel filters are however not in the return line, but in the line TO the engine, and they see a constant flow, independant of the actual fuel consumption of the engine. Correct me if I'm wrong. Frans Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:35 PM PST US From: "Mike Gregory" Subject: RE: Europa-List: the next DOTH? Paul, According to http://carlturner.blogspot.com/2008_07_01_archive.html , it was on the Lake District mountain of Helvellyn in Cumbria: "Helvellyn's summit is fairly flat, and in 1926 Australian aviation pioneer Bert Hinkler (with John Leeming) landed an Avro 585 here. Hinkler gained worldwide fame two years later when he became the first man to fly solo from Britain to Australia, an event largely eclipsed in the public memory when Britain's Amy Johnson repeated the feat in 1930 thus becoming the first woman to do so." [ebph+-+Dave+Earl.jpg] The Avro 585 was registered G-EBPH Best wishes, Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Atkinson Sent: 12 October 2008 16:57 Subject: Europa-List: the next DOTH? Does anyone know where this was taken? In case you can't read it, the inscription read:- The first aeroplane to land on a mountain in Great Britain did so on this spot on December 22nd 1926. John Leeming and Bert Hinkler in an Avro 585 Gosport landed here and after a short stay flew back to Woodford. Landing surface mainly grass, no restaurant and no landing fees but lots of red tape no doubt. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:05 PM PST US From: kbcarpenter@comcast.net Subject: Re: Europa-List: engine surging I have some follow-up on the surging problem. Turning off the TCU does not help anything. In fact, the engine seems to surge and be a little rougher. I have checked the plugs which were new two hours ago. The air filter has no effect on the problem. I have checked the tubing, it is six years old, but looks to be in good condition and no cracks...course you can't see the underside of a lot of the tubing. The surging varies. I ran it yesterday and it did not surge at all...manifold pressure up to 38 and it seemed to be cured. Then today I ran it again and the surging was back. The surging is over a range from 5000 down to 2000. Someone was of the opinion that it was almost like the engine was being turned off and as the RPM dropped, being turned back on. Since the problem occurs only at the higher throttle settings, I had assumed it could not be the electrical system. The engine does diesel some when turned off. It has done that for a year or so. I usually turn of f the fuel pumps first and when the pressure drops, then turn off the ignition. The dieseling is worse if the enginie is hot...like up at 200 degrees or so. The surging is less severe when the engine is hot...up in the 200 range, and worse with the engine temp at 130. I am leary of the carbs but it sounds like I will have to tackle them if no one comes up with an alternate idea. No one around Knoxville has experience with a Rotax. I asked our AI if he knew anything about Rotax engines and he said, "Heck, I can't even spell it!" The intermittant nature of the surging has added to the frustration. I can't see anything being done to the engine that makes it behave different. I have the same gas(half auto high test and half 100LL) in the plane that was in there when I did two flights before the surging started. The mag check is normal. Running both fuel pumps increases the pressure reading but does not change the surging. It did not surge for 500 hours running on one pump. Thanks for the ideas thus far. Ken Carpenter -------------- Original message -------------- From: "ALAN YERLY" Guys, Here is my one and a half cents. When working with Jerry Hope's 914 we found that the reset switch was all that was necessary to cure the surging... That is always my first in-flight correction. For my older engine, the wiper on the pot in the turbo servo wore out with time and the servo began to hunt. By hitting the reset switch, it momentarily cuts the power and stabilizes the manifold/boost and the servo related surge/boost fluctuations stop. As for the carb related problems, With the engine at idle, servo locked out (reset switch held to eliminate the servo from operating), run the engine up until you see about 35-39 inches of MP. If the engine does not surge, it is not the carbs. If you have the dual manometers, and can watch the MP on each carb, that will tell you volumes about your carb health. If one of the altitude compensators is hanging up, the engine will sag, calling for more boost, then the engine boost clears the carb balance problem, but that causes a momentary over boost which then causes the servo to cut boost, which then causes the carbs to be out of balance again. In this case you will see it in the twin manometers and a carb rebuild kit for $45 will fix you up. The carbs on a 914 take about 2 hours to get on and off, and 1 hour to replace the seals in the carbs. Then you get to retune the throttles. Pay attention to the position of the needle valve slide clip during the rebuild. If you g et one position off, you will be running richer or leaner than normal. Bing has troubleshooting manual on the web and Rotax has the carb balancing video you can order, so check it out. If your throttle position sensor is worn, that too can cause the computer to force the engine into a surge on the older slower computer processor. The program sold by Rotax can check the position sensor. For low boost, or leaks, wow, that's a new one on me. I don't get to fly that high so I have no experience. My low boost problems is because I don't set the cable right on the servo or the cable slips. Rich Schultz found with running on AV Gas, his carbs stayed in tune if he added just a bit of Marvel Mystery Oil to his gas to lube his carb. His problems cleared up. Bud Custom Flight Creations (813) 653-4989 ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul McAllister Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:20 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: engine surging Hi Folks, Could I offer a contrary view? I got to 600 hours on my 914 with no sign off issues wih the carbs, but on the adivce of many I sent my carbs into Lockwood to have them overhauled. What a mistake, the airplane now uses .3 to .4 more gallons per hour than before and it took me 4 tries to get the inlet system sealed up again so I could get maximum boost. Actually it still is not right, I can only get 27 inches and 16k feet and I should be able to get 34" so the darn thong is still leaking. With that said, it may well be your carbs, but the first place I would go is fuel filters, then look at the fuel pressure (needs to be measured differentially), then onto the turbo waste gate. What you will need to do is disconnect the cable and move it by hand to check for "stickyness". After all of the above, yep, I'd mess with the carbs. Just my 2 cents worth. Regards, nbsp; Features Chat, --> http://www.matron====================== bsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
I have some follow-up on the surging problem.  Turning off the TCU does not help anything.  In fact, the engine seems to surge and be a little rougher.  I have checked the plugs which were new two hours ago.  The air filter has no effect on the problem.  I have checked the tubing, it is six years old, but looks to be in good condition and no cracks...course you can't see the underside of a lot of the tubing.  The surging varies.  I ran it yesterday and it did not surge at all...manifold pressure up to 38 and it seemed to be cured.  Then today I ran it again and the surging was back.  The surging is over a range from 5000 down to 2000.  Someone was of the opinion that it was almost like the engine was being turned off and as the RPM dropped, being turned back on.  Since the problem occurs only at the higher throttle settings, I had assumed it could not be the electrical system.  The engine does diesel some when t urned off.  It has done that for a year or so.  I usually turn off the fuel pumps first and when the pressure drops, then turn off the ignition.  The dieseling is worse if the enginie is hot...like up at 200 degrees or so.  The surging is less severe when the engine is hot...up in the 200 range, and worse with the engine temp at 130. 
I am leary of the carbs but it sounds like I will have to tackle them if no one comes up with an alternate idea.  No one around Knoxville has experience with a Rotax.  I asked our AI if he knew anything about Rotax engines and he said, "Heck, I can't even spell it!"   The intermittant nature of the surging has added to the frustration.  I can't see anything being done to the engine that makes it behave different.  I have the same gas(half auto high test  and half 100LL) in the plane that was in there when I did two flights before the surging started.  The mag check is normal.  Running both fuel pumps increases the pressure reading but does not change the surging.  It did not surge for 500 hours running on one pump.   Thanks for the ideas thus far.
Ken Carpenter
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "ALAN YERLY" <budyerly@msn.com>
Guys,  Here is my one and a half cents.
 
When working with Jerry Hope's 914 we found that the reset switch was all that was necessary to cure the surging...  That is always my first in-flight correction.  For my older engine, the wiper on the pot in the turbo servo wore out with time and the servo began to hunt.  By hitting the reset switch, it momentarily cuts the power and stabilizes the manifold/boost and the servo related surge/boost fluctuations stop.
 
As for the carb related problems,  With the engine at idle, servo locked out (reset switch held to eliminate the servo from operating), run the engine up until you see about 35-39 inches of MP.  If the engine does not surge, it is not the carbs.  If you have the dual manometers, and can watch the MP on each carb, that will tell you volumes about your carb health.  If one of the altitude compensators is hanging up, the engine will sag, calling for more boost, then the engine boost clears the carb balance problem, but that causes a momentary over boost which then causes the servo to cut boost, which then causes the carbs to be out of balance again.  In this case you will see it in the twin manometers and a carb rebuild kit for $45 will fix you up.  The carbs on a 914 take about 2 hours to get on and off, and 1 hour to replace the seals in the carbs.  Then you get to retune the throttles.  Pay attention to the posit ion of the needle valve slide clip during the rebuild.  If you get one position off, you will be running richer or leaner than normal.  Bing has troubleshooting manual on the web and Rotax has the carb balancing video you can order, so check it out. 
 
If your throttle position sensor is worn, that too can cause the computer to force the engine into a surge on the older slower computer processor.  The program sold by Rotax can check the position sensor.
 
For low boost, or leaks, wow, that's a new one on me.  I don't get to fly that high so I have no experience.  My low boost problems is because I don't set the cable right on the servo or the cable slips.
 
Rich Schultz found with running on AV Gas, his carbs stayed in tune if he added just a bit of Marvel Mystery Oil to his gas to lube his carb.  His problems cleared up. 
 
Bud
Custom Flight Creations
(813) 653-4989
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2008 9:20 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: engine surging

--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>

Hi Folks,

Could I offer a contrary view?  I got to 600 hours on my 914 with no
sign off issues wih the carbs, but on the adivce of many I sent my
carbs into Lockwood to have them overhauled.  What a mistake,  the
airplane now uses .3 to .4 more gallons per hour than before and it
took me 4 tries to get the inlet system sealed up again so I could get
maximum boost.

Actually it still is not right, I can only get 27 inches and 16k feet
and I should be able to get 34" so the darn thong is still leaking.

With that said, it may well be your carbs, but the first place I would
go is fuel filters, then look at the fuel pressure (needs to be
measured differentially), then onto the turbo waste gate.  What you
will need to do is
________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:52:30 PM PST US From: "Jerry Rehn" Subject: Europa-List: Engine surging Ken I attached a section on troubleshooting the carbs. This is from a class I took from Rotax on the 900 series engines, I hope it proves useful. Jerry ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:51 PM PST US From: "Jerry Rehn" Subject: RE: Europa-List: engine surging Ken I sent a troubleshooting idea under separate cover. However I would look for induction leaks at the hoses connecting the carbs to the manifold and the turbo to the air box hose. I replaced my hoses at the carbs with the new Rotax designed hoses and clamps after I had a leak that I couldn't see. I didn't have as much of an issue as you but I did have some rough spots that went away with the new hoses and clamps. The trouble shooting idea has an affective method of checking for leaks. Good luck. Jerry ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.