---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 10/14/08: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:15 AM - Boiling fuel due to underpressure? (Remi Guerner) 2. 03:11 AM - Re: Pete Clark Test Pilot Report G-YURO (David Joyce) 3. 04:02 AM - Re: Aileron setup (Graham Singleton) 4. 09:58 AM - Re: Boiling fuel due to underpressure? () 5. 10:05 AM - Rudder Lock (Choperpaul) 6. 11:15 AM - Re: Rudder Lock (Jeff B) 7. 11:59 AM - Re: Pete Clark Test Pilot Report G-YURO (Tim Ward) 8. 03:29 PM - Re: Rudder Lock (Richard Iddon) 9. 04:53 PM - Re: Fuel filters (rampil) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:15:06 AM PST US From: "Remi Guerner" Subject: Europa-List: Boiling fuel due to underpressure? Frans, Sorry to confirm you are wrong! The fuel pump is unable to supply 120 liters per hour and 15 PSI at the same time. The pump performance curve suplied by Rotax (914 Install Manual, paragraph 14.4.1, page 50) shows that the pump is able to deliver only about 90 liters per hour at 15 PSI (relative pressure). Should you need 1,5 bars/22 PSI (relative) then the flow would have to be restricted to 55 liters per hour. Should you need 1,75 bars/26 PSI (relative) then the flow would have to be restricted to 20 liters per hour. 120 liters per hour can be delivered only with zero out put pressure. Again this comes from the pump performance figures provided by Rotax and this behaviour could be verified with any similar fuel pump. In my previous example, assuming you are running on one pump, the flow through the pump and the filter would be 96 liters per hour. The engine would use about 30 liters per hour. The remaining 66 liters would go back to the tank. Again, the conclusion is that the fuel flow through the pump and filter is reduced when you push the power lever. I am pretty sure you will be able to confirm this whenever you are ready to run your engine. I would be curious to know your measured figures. Remi "You are flying at full power at 16000 feet, ISA conditions. According to the Rotax Manuals, the air box pressure (absolute pressure) is 1,2 bars. The fuel pressure at the carbs must be 0.25 bars above airbox pressure, that is 1,45 bars absolute. Ambient pressure at 16000ft is 0,53 bars, so the fuel pressure must be 0,92 bars above ambient. The fuel pressure regulator adjusts the flow back to the tank so that the pump is able to supply the required pressure. [/quote:6ba7d7472f] I don't agree with that. The fuel pump delivers 120 liters, with 15 psi or something like that. The fuel pressure regulator simply opens a valve when the pressure exceeds a limit, so the excess fuel flows back to the tank. If the engine consumes more, the pressure drops a bit, so the valve closes a bit, and less fuel is flowing back to the tank. Let's say that 96 liters flow back (your example). This means that the engine is using 24 liters per hour. The flow through the filter is 96 + 24 liters, still 120 liters per hour. The ratio may differ, but the total remains constant. You can also see it like this: the pressure regulator does not communicate with the pump, so the pump does not know what is going on and always delivers 120 liters per hour, regardless whether the engine is running at full power, or not even running at all. Anyway, as soon as I have the installation ready I can tell you for sure, as I have a fuel flow sensor in series with both the feed line and the return line. I will tell you how much flows through the filter with various power settings. Frans" ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:11:58 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pete Clark Test Pilot Report G-YURO Tim, I have copies of the CAFE report on Kim Prout's N111EU, the Flyer report on G-YURO by Miles McCullum, Peter Underhill's report on G-YURO and various reports on the XS! Any of those any good to you? Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Ward" Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 7:33 PM Subject: Europa-List: Pete Clark Test Pilot Report G-YURO > > Hi all, > Does anybody have a copy of Pete Clark's report on the test flying of the > number 1 Europa Classic G-YURO? > It use to be on the old company website alas now not on the new company > website. > It could be on the Europa Club website however I am not a member. > Cheers, > Tim > Europa Classic 292 ZK-TIM > 180 hours > > > Tim Ward > 12 Waiwetu Street > Fendalton, > Christchurch > NEW ZEALAND > PH 0064 3 3515166 > MOB 021 0640221 > ward.t@xtra.co.nz > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:02:59 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron setup Frans Veldman wrote: > > Thanks for all the advice. I will try again, but the desciptions look like what I have been doing so far. The points is, if I start with the QD's vertical, the link rods adjusted to the upper limit, I somehow end up with about 26 degrees down travel for the starboard aileron. As soon as I start correcting this by adjusting the link rod, it messes up all the other parameters, such as upper aileron limit, neutral setting etc and whatever I try, I can't get it right anymore. > The weather doesn't look promising today, so I can't get the airplane outside to try again. > > BTW, I use the Europa factory sold digital level, and measure compared against the wing tip, i.e. neutral is the aileron parallel to the wing tip. > > Frans > Frans you must set the aileron upper limit first with the link rod, go for 24 deg, as Bud said. Then set everything else. Graham ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:58:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Boiling fuel due to underpressure? From: For what its worth, I fooled with 914 fuel system on bench. Gilles was kind enough to put on his site: http://contrails.free.fr/engine_914_fuel_syst_test_en.php I commented on bubbling. Note if the drain on Andair 375 is opened just a tiny little bit, bubbling goes out of control and yuo can hear pumps injesting air. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:08 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Rudder Lock From: "Choperpaul" Hi Guys, before i try to reinvent the wheel, does anyone know how to stop the rudder from moving about in the wind please? Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:15:55 AM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Lock I use a pair of 3/4" PVC tubing on the passenger side. They have "T"'s cut out to accommodate the "T" shape in the peddles. Simple, light and cheap. Jeff - Baby Blue Choperpaul wrote: > > Hi Guys, before i try to reinvent the wheel, does anyone know how to stop the rudder from moving about in the wind please? > > > > > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:59:25 AM PST US From: "Tim Ward" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pete Clark Test Pilot Report G-YURO Hi David, We managed to get Pete Clarks report on G-YURO the prototype #1 so many thanks for your offer. Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch NEW ZEALAND PH 0064 3 3515166 MOB 021 0640221 ward.t@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Joyce" Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 11:11 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pete Clark Test Pilot Report G-YURO > > > Tim, I have copies of the CAFE report on Kim Prout's N111EU, the Flyer > report on G-YURO by Miles McCullum, Peter Underhill's report on G-YURO and > various reports on the XS! Any of those any good to you? > Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tim Ward" > To: > Sent: Monday, October 13, 2008 7:33 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Pete Clark Test Pilot Report G-YURO > > >> >> Hi all, >> Does anybody have a copy of Pete Clark's report on the test flying of the >> number 1 Europa Classic G-YURO? >> It use to be on the old company website alas now not on the new company >> website. >> It could be on the Europa Club website however I am not a member. >> Cheers, >> Tim >> Europa Classic 292 ZK-TIM >> 180 hours >> >> >> Tim Ward >> 12 Waiwetu Street >> Fendalton, >> Christchurch >> NEW ZEALAND >> PH 0064 3 3515166 >> MOB 021 0640221 >> ward.t@xtra.co.nz >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:59 PM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rudder Lock I made a 'T' bar from plastic waste pipe, about 1.25 in diameter. I trimmed the ends of the cross bar so they sit over the rudder pedals and glued a short vertical piece of pipe on the end of the 'leg'. I cut half this away so it sits against the stick and I hold it in place with a bungee cord which I fixed under the panel. The bungee just loops over the stick. It not only stops the rudder from banging about but stabilises the ailerons and tailpane also. In very strong winds it can shake loose but for most conditions it works a treat. Took me less than an hour to make, weighs only a few ounces and cost very little. Richard Iddon G-RIXS Hi Guys, before i try to reinvent the wheel, does anyone know how to stop the rudder from moving about in the wind please? ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:35 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuel filters From: "rampil" Hi Remi Thanks for the info about the french accidents. It seems what's needed is a simple test of pressure drop across the filter in a 914 aircraft with the flow rate that interested you for that engine (I only have a 912s). Of course, one also has to control the contaminants in the fuel as any filter will clog eventually Ira -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p 8820#208820 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.