Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:27 AM - Re: Aileron setup (Frans Veldman)
2. 12:43 AM - Re: Boiling fuel due to underpressure? (Frans Veldman)
3. 02:01 AM - Re: Aileron setup (Graham Singleton)
4. 03:24 AM - Re: Rudder Lock (Choperpaul)
5. 05:31 AM - Re: Aileron setup (Frans Veldman)
6. 09:19 AM - Bicamber prop technology and Paul Lipps (glenn crowder)
7. 10:46 AM - Re: Aileron setup (Robert C Harrison)
8. 12:26 PM - Copperstate Fly-In (danbish)
9. 02:42 PM - Re: Aileron setup part dux. (ALAN YERLY)
10. 03:46 PM - Re: Aileron setup (Greg Fuchs)
11. 04:41 PM - Re: Aileron setup part dux. (Graham Singleton)
12. 04:52 PM - Re: Aileron setup (Frans Veldman)
13. 04:59 PM - Re: Aileron setup part dux. (Frans Veldman)
14. 05:05 PM - Re: Aileron setup (Frans Veldman)
15. 09:49 PM - Nice gear lock switch ()
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron setup |
The wheather was cooperating, so I started all over, exactly following Bud's guidlines.
When I rigged the wings, the result was indeed promising, with both ailerons nearly
centered and throw within the limits. That is, the ailerons where slightly
up together, and the down movement of the right aileron was just within the
limit.
When I tried to center both ailerons, this also increased the down movement of
the right aileron, causing it to exceed the limit. It proved to be almost impossible
to get both ailerons down without causing the right aileron to get more
than 22 degrees of down movement.
The only way I could keep it within the limit was to shorten the link rod somewhat,
giving it more up movement instead.
After a few hours of trying, the best I could come up with is the following:
Port aileron
Up 22.5
Down 20.4
Starboard aileron
Up 24.8
Down 21.9
Although everything is within the limits, there is some asymmetry in the maximum
throw. I have no idea what is causing this, maybe an accumulation of all kind
of things that are slightly off. The port aileron could use some more throw,
while the starboard aileron should have less.
Should I worry about the result? Should I try fixing it by rebuilding some critical
components? If so, what needs to be rebuild? I guess one of the bellcranks
has one hole slightly off, so it has more (or less) lever action. Maybe I can
fix it by putting the link bolt of the starboard aileron further away from the
hinge?
Frans
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Boiling fuel due to underpressure? |
[quote:08514aa99f="air.guerner at orange.fr"]Frans,
Sorry to confirm you are wrong!
The fuel pump is unable to supply 120 liters per hour and 15 PSI at the same time.
The pump performance curve suplied by Rotax (914 Install Manual, paragraph
14.4.1, page 50) shows that the pump is able to deliver only about 90 liters
per hour at 15 PSI (relative pressure). Should you need 1,5 bars/22 PSI (relative)
then the flow would have to be restricted to 55 liters per hour. Should you
need 1,75 bars/26 PSI (relative) then the flow would have to be restricted
to 20 liters per hour.
[/quote:08514aa99f]
Somehow you make the assumption that giving more power causes somehow the regulator
to change its pressure setting?
I agree that the turbo changes the pressure somewhat if you get over the 100% stop,
and then you may be right, the fuel pump needs to work harder. However, up
to the 100% level, the pressure in the airbox should hardly change. In this
range, the power lever should have no influence on the fuel pressure needed, and
hence not affect flow.
Of course I will let you know what happens once I'm able to start the engine.
Frans
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron setup |
Frans
The starboard one looks OK, so adjust the port one.
Make sure both ailerons hit the UP stop. That is important. If one of
them has the balance weight of the other aileron hitting the skin that
is wrong.
Graham
Frans Veldman wrote:
>
> T
>
> Port aileron
> Up 22.5
> Down 20.4
>
> Starboard aileron
> Up 24.8
> Down 21.9
>
> Should I worry about the result? Should I try fixing it by rebuilding some critical
components? If so, what needs to be rebuild? I guess one of the bellcranks
has one hole slightly off, so it has more (or less) lever action. Maybe I
can fix it by putting the link bolt of the starboard aileron further away from
the hinge?
>
> Frans
>
>
Message 4
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Any Pictures please?
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron setup |
Graham Singleton wrote:
> Frans
> The starboard one looks OK, so adjust the port one.
> Make sure both ailerons hit the UP stop. That is important. If one of
> them has the balance weight of the other aileron hitting the skin that
> is wrong.
But how to adjust the port one? If I allow more up movement there, the
starboard aileron will get more down movement, and exceed the maximum
allowable down movement.
Somehow I just can't get both ailerons moving the same amount. I started
twice right from the start, with finally the same results.
And I have no balance weights hitting the skin, as I don't have the skin
yet on. This is why I'm trying to get the ailerons adjusted, now I have
still easy access to all parts.
Thanks,
Frans
Message 6
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| Subject: | Bicamber prop technology and Paul Lipps |
Here's some interesting propeller developments from a company called Bica
mber Technology. They claim to have a new airfoil design thats much
more efficient=2C using a concave section behind the maximum camber point
on both sides of the blade.
http://www.bicambertechnology.com/
But in a recent test between a two blade Bicamber shaped foil and the Paul
Lipps designed 3 blade Ellipse=2C the Lipps prop proved significantly more
efficient. Reposted from the Rotary Eng list: Hi Paul and group. I brought
the subject of bicamber tech. So with a little research I got theses data
for the group to share. Please note that Paul Lipps is working with Catto a
nd Bicamber tech as specified on this link. This Jim Smith was introduced t
o me by Paul Lipps. http://www.biplaneaerobatics.com/elippse
Marc Joseph Hi Marc=2CI have been flying an Elippse 3 blade propeller (Desi
gned by Paul Lipps) on my 150hp RV-6 forone year now.Last June I tested a 2
blade propeller (Designed and built by Fred Felix) that had the same tip s
hapeas my Elippse and also incorporated the Bi-Camber Technology.Below are
the flight test numbers at 4=2C000 Palt and 10=2C000 Palt for both props. 4
=2C000 Palt RPM IAS(mph) TAS(mph) Effective pitchBi-Camber 2=2C778 170.8 18
3.5 69.7"Elippse 2=2C740 180.8 193 74.4 " 18% more efficient 10=2C000 Palt
Bi-Camber 2=2C695 149 177.5 69.5"Elippse 2=2C655 157.6 184.4 73.3" 14% more
efficient Rate of Climb 2=2C000 to 10=2C000 PaltBi-Camber Avg. 774 fpmElip
pse Avg 916 fpmThe above numbers are an average of several test flights. Hi
gher speeds with fewer RPM anda better rate of climb for the Elippse prop.
Gross T.O. Weight for all flights 1=2C440 lbs. I am marketing the Elippse p
ropeller (for Paul) for the Experimental aircraft. If I can be of any furth
er help=2Cplease get back with me. Thanks for the inquiry and intrest=2CJim
Smith
_________________________________________________________________
See how Windows connects the people=2C information=2C and fun that are part
of your life.
Message 7
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Hi! Frans.
Just occurred to me .....are the bellcranks of equal leg, because if not
you may have one incorrect way round giving you unequal movements?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans
Veldman
Sent: 15 October 2008 13:37
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron setup
<frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
Graham Singleton wrote:
> Frans
> The starboard one looks OK, so adjust the port one.
> Make sure both ailerons hit the UP stop. That is important. If one of
> them has the balance weight of the other aileron hitting the skin that
> is wrong.
But how to adjust the port one? If I allow more up movement there, the
starboard aileron will get more down movement, and exceed the maximum
allowable down movement.
Somehow I just can't get both ailerons moving the same amount. I started
twice right from the start, with finally the same results.
And I have no balance weights hitting the skin, as I don't have the skin
yet on. This is why I'm trying to get the ailerons adjusted, now I have
still easy access to all parts.
Thanks,
Frans
Message 8
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| Subject: | Copperstate Fly-In |
Hi,
Any Europas scheduled to attend Copperstate this year? If so, I'd like to make
sure I get to see your plane, please let me know what day you're planning to attend.
Thanks,
Dan
520.360.9747
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron setup part dux. |
Frans,
You give me the impression that you are using a digital level to set the
deflection. Get a protractor that measures inside and outside angles or
make cardboard templates for your travel and measure the deflection at
the hinge. The bottom of the wing at the hinge should be close to flat.
Measure your deflections from that. If you do nothing more than make
cardboard templates with 24 degrees up and 22 degree down angles for
measurement of the deflection, it should work.
Normally, if your starboard aileron goes down too far the port up stop
is not set correctly. Remember the rule, the bell crank stop sets the
up limit, and by default, the down throw on the opposite aileron. As
you know, the geometry of the flight controls gives more up aileron than
down for adverse yaw affects.
With both up stops set at 24 degrees at the hinge, and no slop in the
system, the down throw should be very close to 22 degrees. Please
measure with a protractor verses the chord line as you may be setting
the up stop too far up which yields too much down on the opposite side.
If the up is set too high, due to rod length differences and bell crank
throw, this makes the left and right throw different due to the angle
deflections of the bell cranks (when the aileron up point is approaching
30 degrees (Cosin of .866) you get a noticeable difference in linear rod
throw) which means you won't get the same amount of throw on each wing.
Only a couple of degrees, but frustrating to say the least.
Just to bloviate, as far as digital levels and aileron measurement goes,
there can be 2-3 degrees of error by trying to hold a level and take a
measurement from an assumed known datum with the linkage moving under
weight of the level. Assumed datums such as a wing tip chord line are
suspect because the aileron angle has to be measured on its chord line
also, and it is very hard to get a pure wing tip chord line...
Especially if you don't make a shim to lay your digital level on to set
it to the chord line. This makes the aileron deflection measurement
inaccurate. Measure the deflection at the hinge.
To all builders: All rudder and aileron deflections on the Europa are
to be measured from the hinge lines. In all my aero books, these
deflections are made at the hinge line. Note that the stab hinge point
is at the center of the stab. In this case we use the flat of the top
of the stab trailing edge and set the digital to zero to measure
deflection of the stab. However, the trim tabs on the stab is measured
by protractor at the hinge...
When rigging any airplane, step back, sit down and look from about 10
feet behind the tail across the rear of the wings. The shadow of the
bottom of the wing surface should be the same on each wing. As you move
your head up, the shadow will disappear at the same spot equally on the
left and right as your head nears the level of the trailing edge. Using
a point such as the flap to aileron joint, which is very close to the
mean aerodynamic chord (where the roll trim really counts) as the point
where the wing shadows are equal is best. It is like trimming a model
airplane. If it looks straight it will fly straight. I have yet to
test fly a Europa, RV. Zenith or Kitfox type aircraft that flew bad when
I rigged them with this method. Your eyeball will detect as little as
.1 degrees between wing incidence using this basic method. Many times I
have gone back and corrected my digitally leveled and measured aircraft
because my Mark I eyeball said it doesn't look straight. Should the
aircraft have a slight roll during flight, I will shim or adjust a flap
by a small amount (1/32 inch at a time) to get the roll trim right due
to a slight building error. When I checked using the eyeball method, I
could usually see the problem and kick myself for not catching it. Of
course that will probably all change when I have eye surgery next week.
Anyone know a good seeing eye dog or eye patch company just in case?
Happy building
Bud
Custom Flight Creations
(813) 653-4989
----- Original Message -----
From: Frans Veldman<mailto:frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, October 14, 2008 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron setup
<frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl<mailto:frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>>
Thanks for all the advice. I will try again, but the desciptions look
like what I have been doing so far. The points is, if I start with the
QD's vertical, the link rods adjusted to the upper limit, I somehow end
up with about 26 degrees down travel for the starboard aileron. As soon
as I start correcting this by adjusting the link rod, it messes up all
the other parameters, such as upper aileron limit, neutral setting etc
and whatever I try, I can't get it right anymore.
The weather doesn't look promising today, so I can't get the airplane
outside to try again.
BTW, I use the Europa factory sold digital level, and measure compared
against the wing tip, i.e. neutral is the aileron parallel to the wing
tip.
Frans
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org<http://www.europaowners.org/>
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 10
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Frans,
Could this be the answer you are seeking? I believe it was Graham who
discussed the importance of aileron drive pin alignment. If alignment is not
within a tight tolerance, adjustment of ailerons can be impossible.
Do a search on matronix with this exact phrase(without the dashes):
--drive pin is the main critical--
Regards,
Greg
p.s. Forgive me if this was already discussed, and I did not see it.
=====================================================================
.
? If I allow more up movement there, the
starboard aileron will get more down movement, and exceed the maximum
allowable down movement.
Somehow I just can't get both ailerons moving the same amount. I started
twice right from the start, with finally the same results.
Thanks,
Frans
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron setup part dux. |
Bud
best of luck with the eye surgery, life isn't impossible with one eye
but one does tend to ding the corners of the car :-(
Graham
ALAN YERLY wrote:
> When I checked using the eyeball method, I could usually see the
> problem and kick myself for not catching it. Of course that will
> probably all change when I have eye surgery next week. Anyone know a
> good seeing eye dog or eye patch company just in case?
>
> Happy building
>
> Bud
> Custom Flight Creations
> (813) 653-4989
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron setup |
Frans,
Could this be the answer you are seeking? I believe it was Graham who
discussed the importance of aileron drive pin alignment. If alignment is not
within a tight tolerance, adjustment of ailerons can be impossible.
Do a search on matronix with this exact phrase(without the dashes):
--drive pin is the main critical--
[/quote:5072120439]
Eh, if I try this, it will just come up with this thread. Do you have a direct
link please?
frans
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron setup part dux. |
[quote:8ecb0f5323="Bud Yerly"]Frans,
You give me the impression that you are using a digital level to set the deflection.
[/quote:8ecb0f5323]
Yes, but I also checked with a protractor. If I use the digital level, I clamp
it on the aileron, set the aileron neutral (eyeball method), make a reading of
the digital level, and use this as a reference for the maximum up- and down movement.
This way, it doesn't matter where I put the digital level, as long as
I don't move it between the readings.
BTW I like your "eyeball method". Good idea! I'm going to try it tomorrow.
Frans
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron setup |
Hi! Frans.
Just occurred to me .....are the bellcranks of equal leg, because if not
you may have one incorrect way round giving you unequal movements?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----[/quote:04b201de89]
You mean that I might have mounted it incorrectly? I checked everything already,
this is not the case. The error would then be much higher. I suspect the problem
what I have is due to the accumulation of build- and part tolerances. If
you are lucky consequitive tolerances cancel each other out, in my case they probably
work in the same direction. Maybe I should just swap the bell cranks?
;-)
I found that the starboard aileron drive pin is 1mm too close to the hinge. Could
this be the cause?
Frans
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 15
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| Subject: | Nice gear lock switch |
Just got hold of 3 very nice switches from McMaster Carr going to use for
gear down and locked switches.
Not cheap, but they are in a anodized aluminium housing, has wires potted
in place and a sealed actuation pin. Will use the stainless arm for the
outrigger set on a bias so arm can not get side loaded. For the main gear
lever will just let the lever arm push direct on the switch actuation pin.
http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album217&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Ron Parigoris
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