---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 10/29/08: 21 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:35 AM - Re: Rotax Tacho (Brian Davies) 2. 02:28 AM - Re: outrigger leg broke (josok) 3. 02:54 AM - Re: Rotax Tacho (Roger Anderson) 4. 03:10 AM - Re: Rotax Tacho () 5. 03:17 AM - Re: outrigger leg broke (Robert C Harrison) 6. 03:22 AM - Re: Rotax Tacho (rparigoris) 7. 05:07 AM - Re: Rotax Tacho (h&jeuropa) 8. 06:34 AM - Re: outrigger leg broke (Kevin Klinefelter) 9. 08:48 AM - Europa UK fliers..and DOTH's (Robert C Harrison) 10. 09:23 AM - Re: outrigger leg broke (Graham Singleton) 11. 10:04 AM - Re: outrigger leg broke (glenn crowder) 12. 11:34 AM - Re: Rotax Tacho (rampil) 13. 12:02 PM - Re: Re: Rotax Tacho (Paul Stewart) 14. 03:20 PM - Air Vents (jimpuglise@comcast.net) 15. 03:22 PM - outrigger leg broke (Erich Trombley) 16. 03:54 PM - Re: outrigger leg broke (JR Gowing) 17. 04:41 PM - Re: Air Vents (Paul Stewart) 18. 05:10 PM - Re: outrigger leg broke (Kevin Klinefelter) 19. 08:04 PM - Carburator Heat and Drip Pans (Troy Maynor) 20. 08:35 PM - Re: Air Vents (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 21. 08:52 PM - Re: Carburator Heat and Drip Pans (Tim Ward) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:35:56 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax Tacho Hi Paul, Common problem on the Rotax tacho- swap the signal leads over at the connecting plug. That normally fixes it. If it does not , it is a tacho change. Brian Davies _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: 29 October 2008 00:33 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Tacho Paul I thank Jim Butcher had the same problem. He has the Blue Mtn EFIS and was having some problems with the tach reading incorrect. I have not seen any postings from him lately. Jim are you still out there ??? Jim Brown --- On Tue, 10/28/08, Paul Stewart wrote: From: Paul Stewart Subject: Europa-List: Rotax Tacho Have just run the engine for the first time (914). All seems well with exception of rotax tacho. Advancing throttle from 'rough running' to just smooth, the tacho jumps from <2000rpm to 4000rpm - numbers which I just don't believe. Anyone got any thoughts? Unfortunately the rest of our engine instruments are a BMA EFIS1 which doesn't easily support an alternative tacho for the rotax. Regards Paul D======================== ========= D======================== ========= D======================== ========= D======================== ========= Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 21:20 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:28:57 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: outrigger leg broke From: "josok" Well Kevann, that makes 2 incidents, where low humidity could have played a role. It would also explain why outleggers never break off UK based planes. They do have a humidity problem, at the other extreme. To exclude a batch problem, wat is your kit #? I had kit #600 When i reported the incident 3 years ago nobody had ever heard of such a thing. Now there seem to be more. Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:54:21 AM PST US From: "Roger Anderson" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Tacho Paul, I think that the problem may be that the tacho coil is picking up secondary impulses as the speed increases - which accounts for the doubling of the reading. The Rotax manual does show a graph of the output from the coil which does show secondary impulses. I suggest that a slight increase in the gap might cure the problem. Modellers use a battery operated gadget which works on the strobe effect of the prop to measure the speed of their props. I bought one when I was having a similar problem with my tacho, it wasn't very expensive an it did reassure me that the engine was not in fact overspeeding. Roger (G-BXTD) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Stewart" Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:48 PM Subject: Europa-List: Rotax Tacho > > Have just run the engine for the first time (914). All seems well with > exception of rotax tacho. Advancing throttle from 'rough running' to > just smooth, the tacho jumps from <2000rpm to 4000rpm - numbers which I > just don't believe. Anyone got any thoughts? > > Unfortunately the rest of our engine instruments are a BMA EFIS1 which > doesn't easily support an alternative tacho for the rotax. > > > Regards > > Paul > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:10:06 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rotax Tacho From: Hi Paul I attached a pdf file from Rotax about tachometer troubleshooting. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:17:03 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: outrigger leg broke Hi! Jos /all I'm not a mono/man but didn't someone find an alternative type of nylon quite a while ago? Is it in the Archives? Regards Bob H -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of josok Sent: 29 October 2008 09:27 Subject: Re: Europa-List: outrigger leg broke Well Kevann, that makes 2 incidents, where low humidity could have played a role. It would also explain why outleggers never break off UK based planes. They do have a humidity problem, at the other extreme. To exclude a batch problem, wat is your kit #? I had kit #600 When i reported the incident 3 years ago nobody had ever heard of such a thing. Now there seem to be more. Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:22:35 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Tacho From: "rparigoris" Hmmmm pdf did not attach. Go here: http://www.rotax-owner.com/index.htm Click: Education then E-Learning Click: Click here to view our current PDF documents Click: Tachometer Troubleshooting Ron Parigoris Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:07:30 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Rotax Tacho From: "h&jeuropa" Paul & AcroJim Just a quick update. We gave up getting our G2 Blue Mountain EFIS to work properly. Sold it on E Bay and installed GRT Sport and EIS which interfaces to the 914 with no problem. Tach, fuel flow, temps, pressures, volts & amps all work properly, even when transmitting on the comm radio!! And no interference or noise in the comm radio! Never did get the BMA tach to work, I think they do have a tach solution with their engine pod. Our Rotax tach worked fine while we had the BMA system. Jim Butcher N241BW flying again!! Do not archive Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=210944#210944 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:01 AM PST US From: Kevin Klinefelter Subject: Re: Europa-List: outrigger leg broke Hi Jos, Mine is kit # A211 and Paul Boulet, who also had a failure is near that kit #. His broke in Arizona, so that follows your theory. Kevin josok wrote: > > Well Kevann, that makes 2 incidents, where low humidity could have played a role. It would also explain why outleggers never break off UK based planes. They do have a humidity problem, at the other extreme. > > To exclude a batch problem, wat is your kit #? I had kit #600 When i reported the incident 3 years ago nobody had ever heard of such a thing. Now there seem to be more. > > Regards, > > Jos Okhuijsen > > > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:47 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: Europa-List: Europa UK fliers..and DOTH's Hi! All DOTHer's and prospectives.. As Paddy indicated yesterday's DOTH turned into an ordeal due to the weather advancing way ahead of initial forecasts. Those who believed the original predictions were met by snow and sleet in much more abundance than we had when north of the Arctic Circle in June ! This brings me to remember that when Bryan Allsop and I first conceived the DOTH I had suggested some kind of spontaneous DOTH with SAME DAY initiation where the guy who "had the baton" would call all those who had registered an interest by 'phone. In the winter season this would be safer and lead to happier flying conditions in that today being a glorious day wouldn't be wasted. Has anyone any suggestions ? Don't volunteer me for the baton since I'm about to ground G-PTAG for winter "titivation" service and the confounded Mode S . Regards Bob H G-PTAG From: Robert C Harrison [mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk] Sent: 28 October 2008 20:15 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Shobdon Today Hi! Paddy No problems no one can be right all the time and in my opinion the weather forecasts were way out. Certainly I wouldn't have gone if I'd realized there would be snow and low cloud base. Hope your trip to OZ is more successful...Have a great time. Best regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paddy Clarke Sent: 28 October 2008 14:55 Subject: Europa-List: Shobdon Today Hi Folks, Shobdon today was not the best choice I've made for a DOTH. My apologies to those intrepid souls who got there only to find that I'd already gone. I'm off to Oz tomorrow, and couldn't take the chance I'd end up anywhere but home tonight. I'll try and do better on return! All the Best, Paddy Paddy Clarke Europa G-KIMM ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:23:55 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: outrigger leg broke Kevin Klinefelter wrote: Hi Jos,Mine is kit # A211 and Paul Boulet, who also had a failure is near that kit #. His broke in Arizona, so that follows your theory. > Kevin > Well Kevann, that makes 2 incidents, where low humidity could have > played a role. It would also explain why outleggers never break off UK > based planes. They do have a humidity problem, at the other extreme. >> Jos Okhuijsen Nylon will absorb up to 7% of its own weight in water if my memory isn't wrong again. I know Europa did a lot of tests in the early days and a special nylon was chosen. No humidity test afaik Graham ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:04:03 AM PST US From: glenn crowder Subject: RE: Europa-List: outrigger leg broke Mine is A36 and living in very dry Denver seems to have no issues. I'm goi ng to look today to see if it would be possible to insert a tubular nylon stiffen er that would surround and extend out of the outrigger mount an inch or so to eliminate the stress riser and spread the load. Also thinking of trying some stiffer down springs to try and get the outrig gers to lock down at a higher airspeed. Mine seem to be getting tired after 10 yrs and do not clunk down until I'm slowed up on short final - a little disconcerti ng! Looking at McMaster's selection of extension springs there's hundreds of th em! Glenn > Date: Wed=2C 29 Oct 2008 06:31:17 -0700> From: kevann@gotsky.com> To: eur opa-list@matronics.com> Subject: Re: Europa-List: outrigger leg broke> > -- i Jos=2C> > Mine is kit # A211 and Paul Boulet=2C who also had a failure is near that > kit #. His broke in Arizona=2C so that follows your theory.> > -e@ukolo.fi>> >> > Well Kevann=2C that makes 2 incidents=2C where low humid ity could have played a role. It would also explain why outleggers never br eak off UK based planes. They do have a humidity problem=2C at the other ex treme. > >> > To exclude a batch problem=2C wat is your kit #? I had kit #6 00 When i reported the incident 3 years ago nobody had ever heard of such a thing. Now there seem to be more. > >> > Regards=2C> >> > Jos Okhuijsen> > > >> >> >> >> >> > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ===========> > > _________________________________________________________________ Store=2C manage and share up to 5GB with Windows Live SkyDrive. http://skydrive.live.com/welcome.aspx?provision=1?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_sky drive_102008 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 11:34:42 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Rotax Tacho From: "rampil" Hi All, When I upgraded from the G3 to the G4 BMA EFIS for my 912ULS, I took it upon myself to engineer working solutions for the new BMA Engine Pod. The Rotax electric tach output was designed to go to a electro-mechanical panel gauge, like the new UMA Rotax-specific Tach meter. The UMA works great (although the RPM>IDLE contact never worked in my unit). The electrical output of the engine was never designed for talking to a digital or analog-to-digital conversion box. The voltage out of the flywheel coils exceeds 100v at normal engine speed and the typical high impedance input. The GRT guys may have spent some time working out a conversion/ protection circuit for their engine monitor. I have my EFIS read RPM off a hall-effect sensor mounted on the gearbox next to my prop brushes. It detects the embedded magnet in the prop backing plate used by the Airmaster. The Hall-effect sensor is a stock item at Westach and it produces nice digital pulses for the BMA Engine pod. It works like a champ. There is a small caveat - the Airmaster guys are not picky about which polarity they embed face up in the prop plate. The Westach probe is only sensitive to one polarity, so you need to check the magnet first, before ordering the sensor. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=211007#211007 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:12 PM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Rotax Tacho Many thanks to all who responded. A few things to try. Glad to hear you're flying again Jim. We're still pressing on with the BMA E1 I certainly wouldn't go this way 2nd time round. Regards Paul ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:20:24 PM PST US From: jimpuglise@comcast.net Subject: Europa-List: Air Vents I have an NACA vent in my rudder and tubing running forward to the overhead panel in the cockpit.=C2- I would like to install a couple of overhead v ents similar to those in airliners.=C2- What have others used and where d o you get them?=C2- Jim Puglise A-283, Punta Gorda, FL =C2- ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:29 PM PST US From: "Erich Trombley" Subject: Europa-List: outrigger leg broke I have been using a different material for my outriggers for the last 6 years without issue. I chose to go with MDS (molybdenum disulfide) fill ed Nylon 6/6 material. The material is available on line from a number or vendors; I purchased mine from McMaster Carr. The material is very f lexible, supposedly has good impact strength and is less subject to UV d egradation than other materials. I have yet to break a leg. You might also try and scallop the back face of OR1 in attempt to reduce the stres s riser. Erich Trombley N28ET Classis Mono 914 _____________________________________________________________________ A New Way to Get Free & Discounted Offers -- FreeInternet.com! Visit http://offers.juno.com/TGL1111/?u=http://www.freeinternet.com ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:26 PM PST US From: "JR Gowing" Subject: Re: Europa-List: outrigger leg broke Kevin and all Has any thought been given to replacing the outrigger mechanism and leg with a shorter leg and wheel - just long enough to prevent wear on the wing-tips? This would be back to the glider appearance and some would not like the rocking sideways but everything would be a lot more simle and the nylon legs avoided. JR (Bob) Gowing in Oz Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Klinefelter" Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 12:31 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: outrigger leg broke > > Hi Jos, > > Mine is kit # A211 and Paul Boulet, who also had a failure is near that > kit #. His broke in Arizona, so that follows your theory. > > Kevin > > josok wrote: >> >> Well Kevann, that makes 2 incidents, where low humidity could have played >> a role. It would also explain why outleggers never break off UK based >> planes. They do have a humidity problem, at the other extreme. >> >> To exclude a batch problem, wat is your kit #? I had kit #600 When i >> reported the incident 3 years ago nobody had ever heard of such a thing. >> Now there seem to be more. >> >> Regards, >> >> Jos Okhuijsen >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 5:27 PM -- We are a community of 5.5 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:41:45 PM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Re: Europa-List: Air Vents Jim I used a couple of aluminum eye ball vents not in same position but the same idea. Pretty sure they came from aircraft spruce. Paul On 29 Oct 2008, at 22:19, jimpuglise@comcast.net wrote: > I have an NACA vent in my rudder and tubing running forward to the > overhead panel in the cockpit. I would like to install a couple of > overhead vents similar to those in airliners. What have others used > and where do you get them? > > Jim Puglise A-283, Punta Gorda, FL > _- > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > _- > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > _- > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > _- > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > = > 3D > ====================== > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:47 PM PST US From: Kevin Klinefelter Subject: Re: Europa-List: outrigger leg broke Erich, I was just about to look on McMaster Carr's site for 1-1/4" nylon rod. I'll look to see if I can get the MDS type. I too thought of trying to reduce stress at the OR1 I am thinking of making an OR1 to use for testing the legs for flex, including the original one on my other wing that did not break...yet. Thanks for the tips, Kevin Erich Trombley wrote: > > I have been using a different material for my outriggers for the last > 6 years without issue. I chose to go with MDS (molybdenum > disulfide) filled Nylon 6/6 material. The material is available on > line from a number or vendors; I purchased mine from McMaster Carr. > The material is very flexible, supposedly has good impact strength and > is less subject to UV degradation than other materials. I have yet to > break a leg. You might also try and scallop the back face of OR1 in > attempt to reduce the stress riser. > > Erich Trombley > N28ET Classis Mono 914 > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > A New Way to Get Free & Discounted Offers -- FreeInternet.com! > > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:04:38 PM PST US From: "Troy Maynor" Subject: Europa-List: Carburator Heat and Drip Pans Hi Europa Dudes and Dudettes, At Sun N Fun I bought a set of drip pans for the carbs. They're the round shaped ones that many of the Rotax parts sellers have. Then I decided to take the plunge recently and install the Skydrive carb heaters. And, as I kind of knew, they don't play well together. Has anyone had this combo? If so, did you cut the drip pans and add some material to make them fit together or make new ones from scratch. It would, IMHO, take some fancy aluminum welding to add 3/4" or so. So I'm open to suggestions. Too late to send the carb heaters back, but at the same time I need drip pans. Cut and find an aluminum welder or make from scratch. Oh, one more question: Wouldn't stainless make better drip pans and heat shields anyway? Troy Maynor N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic Left to finish: Seats, engine install underway, some wiring. Weaverville, NC USA ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:04 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Air Vents Jim, I have installed these in the same setup that you have. _http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/alumeyeball.php_ (http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/alumeyeball.php) My vent tube from the rear connected to an open space in the overhead just behind my head and I installed two of these vents....one for me and the other for my passenger. Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300A Sensenich R64Z N Ground Adjustable Prop **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy steps! ooter) ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 08:52:12 PM PST US From: "Tim Ward" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Carburator Heat and Drip Pans Hi Europa Dude alas Troy, I have this combination. I got the drip trays cut down by an engineering firm. Not cheap but had to be done. Cheers, Tim Europa Classic Monowheel #292 Rotax 912S Airmaster Prop. 180 hours Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street Fendalton, Christchurch NEW ZEALAND PH 0064 3 3515166 MOB 021 0640221 ward.t@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Troy Maynor" Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 3:52 PM Subject: Europa-List: Carburator Heat and Drip Pans > Hi Europa Dudes and Dudettes, > > At Sun N Fun I bought a set of drip pans for the carbs. They're the round > shaped ones that many of the Rotax parts sellers have. Then I decided to > take the plunge recently and install the Skydrive carb heaters. And, as I > kind of knew, they don't play well together. Has anyone had this combo? If > so, did you cut the drip pans and add some material to make them fit > together or make new ones from scratch. It would, IMHO, take some fancy > aluminum welding to add 3/4" or so. So I'm open to suggestions. Too late > to > send the carb heaters back, but at the same time I need drip pans. Cut and > find an aluminum welder or make from scratch. Oh, one more question: > Wouldn't stainless make better drip pans and heat shields anyway? > > > Troy Maynor > N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic > Left to finish: > Seats, engine install underway, some wiring. > Weaverville, NC USA > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.