---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 11/06/08: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 11:22 PM - Reminder (Matt Dralle) 1. 02:39 AM - Re: W26 lift pin blocks (craig bastin) 2. 04:34 AM - Re: W26 lift pin blocks (Flying Farmer) 3. 05:36 AM - Re: Time to Paint? () 4. 07:04 AM - Re: Time to Paint? (ALAN YERLY) 5. 10:00 AM - Re: Time to Paint? (rampil) 6. 08:19 PM - Re: Re: Time to Paint? (DuaneFamly@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 11:22:21 PM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: Reminder Dear Listers, Just a quick reminder that November is the annual List Fund Raiser. The Matronics Lists are 100% member supported and all of the operational costs are provided for my your Contributions during this time of the year. Your personal Contribution makes a difference and keeps all of the Matronics Email Lists and Forums completely ad-free. Please make your Contribution today to keep these services up and running! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you in advance! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List and Forum Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:32 AM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: W26 lift pin blocks I came to the conclusion, that my fuselage must be about 20mm wider than it should be at the point where the blocks go rather than it being a fault with my measurements and CM install etc, as the wings fit the CM etc nicely, and moving the whole CM over far enough to fix the post side pin would see the problem move to the other side. What i ended up doing on the port side was carefully filing out the hole for the pin enough to allow the w26 block to pass through from the inside which IMHO will be stronger. I then reduxed it in place (wings rigged at correct AOA), later i came back and reduxed 2 3mm alloy spreader plates on the outside so i could bolt right through the whole lot. I considered getting another w26 made that was 10mm longer to do the same on the other side. The fit of the pin couldnt be better into the W26, there is about 2mm clearance between the outside of the w26 and the face of the wing where the pin screws in, which is the same as the starboard side. Ill send some pics if you like -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Flying Farmer Sent: Thursday, 6 November 2008 9:13 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: W26 lift pin blocks Craig, Did you sort out the problem you had with setting the W26 blocks on your wings been to far starboard? If so what did you do? I have the same problem. Thank You. Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 7:58 AM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:25 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: W26 lift pin blocks From: "Flying Farmer" Craig Thank you for your reply. I would be grateful of any pictures you have, Thank You. My situation is the same as yours!!! On the port side I would need to reduce the W26 by about 5mm and on the Starboard side need to be reduced by about 3mm to get the wing pins to fit as they should. At the moment Im waiting a reply from Roger at the factory who is getting in touch with Andy Draper. I have considered your option. Another suggestion from where the fault is, that the root rib has been built too far inboard or not gigged correctly when they have been manufactured. A clue is that your kit number is 554 and my kit number is 557 for the wings. I would like to know if kit no. 556 had the same problem!!!! Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:20 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Time to Paint? Mike When we completed our monowheel, we completed painting the a/c before we had our first flight. It was still in the shop, and we were in the right frame of mind to complete the plane with a coat of paint. Once we started flying, we never had to look back. A few years later we built a Van's RV 7A, once the a/c was ready to fly, we made the decision to fly off the 40 hours, before painting.. We ended up with almost 200 hours before we started the paint process. What a mistake...... We had to bring the a/c back into the shop clean off the grime and gunk, then we had to take off all the fairing, cowling, wheel paints, etc (you get the picture) We had to seal off the cockpit area, as the panel was installed, It took about a week of all these preparations before we could move the plane to the shop. Then about a week of prep work before we could start painting. I would say we lost about six weeks before the plane was ready to fly again... Jim and Augustene Brown ---- DuaneFamly@aol.com wrote: > Good day all, > > I just came from my Flight Physical and since I have a real old flying > doctor, we chatted over my build. When I brought up having to find someone to > paint my bird or go out and learn to do it myself...and buy the equipment....he > stated that he and friends that have built 6 planes over the past 10 > years....from Long EZ's to RV's....that they never painted their planes until after > they flew off their 40 hours of test flying! This came as a surprise to > me.....how about to you folks? Pros and Cons would be a big help in the upcoming > discussion. > > Mike Duane A207A > Redding, California > XS Conventional Gear > Jabiru 3300A > Sensenich R64Z N > Ground Adjustable Prop > > **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other > Holiday needs. Search Now. > -aol-search/?ncid=emlcntussear00000001) ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:04:29 AM PST US From: "ALAN YERLY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Time to Paint? After nearly eight of these, flying the plane in the raw has pro's and cons. Pro: If you are concerned that the flying qualities are bad and extensive exterior mods will need to be made, don't paint. On the Tri-gear, the common mistake is to not allow the moldings to flex. Flying the gear legs unpainted can show you where you made a mistake. Fiberglass requires clearancing for filler and paint. Your wing fillets will require the sides to be filled to get a good fit. Filler accepts dirt/grease very well. Paint adds weight. Jabiru cooling is a real problem, so do your homework with the other Jab owners to get your cowl right. Biggest problem is the exit area and oil cooler allowing the lower cowl to increase pressure. My opinion. Cons: Flight characteristics of the stab are different unless smooth and painted. Not bad, but noticeable. A Europa which has been built square has rarely needed exterior work, and if it did, just repaint the area. Leaks are easy to clean up and don't ruin polyurethane paint. The Europa wing is susceptible to roughness. If you fly the wing raw with bumps, don't lift off below 55 knots or she will settle. With the conventional gear being that far forward and short, the bounces are, well, sporty to say the least. Try 10-15 degrees of flap to aid in early control. General: Do your work properly during the pre-finishing phase such as: Make sure all your electrical, fuel and plumbing is correct, tight and leak free before paint. Test everything and calibrate your fuel system and make sure the radios and electrical do-dads all work. If a clearance looks tight, fill and sand the area and make sure it clears with allowances for paint. A Jabiru rarely sheds oil and grease during engine operations. Clearance your exhaust well, make sure your oil breather is operating and you won't have problems. I have always felt that a good flying airplane is assured when the plane owner makes sure every system is perfect prior to going on to the next step. Flaps, ailerons, stab and trim systems should be tight and ready to fly. Shim your aileron QD's and adjust your linkages. Make sure your liquid systems are tight. Fill the engine with oil and turn it over, start it if you like and check the systems. Now is the time to find your wiring problems and ensure all is well. If you are going to paint before you fly, you will have the burden of making sure your work is correct. When is the plane ready to fly...When you are ready to knock on the test pilots door and tell his wife he is dead, and there was nothing you could have done to better prepare the aircraft to prevent it. That philosophy will give you an honest airplane. You will still have little electrical do-dad glitches and one component not talking to another, but the engine and flight systems will be sound. Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations (813) 653-4989 ----- Original Message ----- From: DuaneFamly@aol.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 05, 2008 2:06 PM Subject: Europa-List: Time to Paint? Good day all, I just came from my Flight Physical and since I have a real old flying doctor, we chatted over my build. When I brought up having to find someone to paint my bird or go out and learn to do it myself...and buy the equipment....he stated that he and friends that have built 6 planes over the past 10 years....from Long EZ's to RV's....that they never painted their planes until after they flew off their 40 hours of test flying! This came as a surprise to me.....how about to you folks? Pros and Cons would be a big help in the upcoming discussion. Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300A Sensenich R64Z N Ground Adjustable Prop ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. Search ir=http://searchblog.aol.com/2008/11/04/happy-holidays-from-aol-search/ ?ncid=emlcntussear00000001>. http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:00:45 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Time to Paint? From: "rampil" hi all I agree with Terry. Paint before Bug splats make a good finish Impossible. My trigear is a most Efficient bug splatter. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=212712#212712 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:19:43 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Time to Paint? Well, I want to thank all those who replied.....I have decided to paint before flight but will go through all the systems before I paint, as per Bud's reply. That seems to be the most practical way to approach the final stages of this project. Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300A Sensenich R64Z N Ground Adjustable Prop **************AOL Search: Your one stop for directions, recipes and all other Holiday needs. 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