---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 11/16/08: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 0. 12:47 AM - What's My Contribution Used For? (Matt Dralle) 1. 02:21 AM - Stall strips (James, Clive R) 2. 02:48 AM - Re: Stall strips (David Joyce) 3. 06:56 AM - Re: Tight control stick (danbish) 4. 08:48 AM - Re: Stall strips (pjeffers@talktalk.net) 5. 10:35 AM - Re: Tight control stick (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 6. 11:17 AM - Re: Tight control stick (Fred Klein) 7. 12:03 PM - Non-sucky wing inspection method (rparigoris) 8. 12:26 PM - Re: Tight control stick () 9. 01:04 PM - Re: Stall strips (Graham Singleton) 10. 01:23 PM - Re: Tight control stick () 11. 03:02 PM - Re: Tight control stick (Robert C Harrison) 12. 03:34 PM - Re: Tight control stick (rparigoris) 13. 06:20 PM - Remote Oil Pressure (Troy Maynor) ________________________________ Message 0 _____________________________________ Time: 12:47:24 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: What's My Contribution Used For? Dear Listers, Some have asked, "What's my Contribution used for?" and that's a good question. Here are just a few examples of what your direct List support enables. It provides for the very expensive, commercial-grade T1 Internet connection used on the List insuring maximum performance and minimal contention when accessing List services. It pays for the regular system hardware and software upgrades enabling the highest performance possible for services such as the Archive Search Engine, List Browser, and Forums. It pays for 19+ years worth of online archive data available for instant random search and access. And, it offsets the many hours spent writing, developing, and maintaining the custom applications that power this List Service such as the List Browse, Search Engine, Forums, Wiki and PhotoShare. But most importantly, your List Contribution enables a forum where you and your peers can communicate freely in an environment that is free from moderation, censorship, advertising, commercialism, SPAM, and computer viruses. How many places on the Internet can you make all those statements these days? It is YOUR CONTRIBUTION that directly enables these many aspects of these valuable List services. Please support it today with your List Contribution. Its one of the best investments you can make in your Sport... List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:21:13 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Stall strips From: "James, Clive R" Many thanks all for the information on fitting the strips. I know have a plan, what to look out for and what to avoid. If I find anything of interest I'll pass it on. I did suggest a warning device but the Chief engineer feels that the strips are required even with an alarm device. Regards, Clive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:03 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stall strips Clive, LAA requirements are for stall strips OR an effective stall warner, assuming that the natural buffet does not give clear early warning of stalls in all set ups. As the stall strips cause a degree of degradation of low speed performance many people chose the stall warner. The one supplied by Europa is very effective and entirely unobtrusive, and has worked very well for me. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "James, Clive R" Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2008 10:20 AM Subject: Europa-List: Stall strips > > > Many thanks all for the information on fitting the strips. > I know have a plan, what to look out for and what to avoid. > If I find anything of interest I'll pass it on. > I did suggest a warning device but the Chief engineer feels that the > strips are required even with an alarm device. > Regards, Clive > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:36 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tight control stick From: "danbish" Thanks guys for the replies. I guess what has me scratching my head is that if loosening the rear bushing helped, then it isn't necessarily swelling of the hole that's causing the problem. It seems like it would be either misalignment or a swelling in the thickness of the rear tufnol block. What do you think of putting shims in place, front and back, that would keep the bushing from making contact with the blocks altogether? There's just no way I can get in to the aft bushings with grinding compound. Shims also may be varied in thickness that correct any alignment problems. Thanks, Dan Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stall strips From: pjeffers@talktalk.net Hi Clive, You will find that the LAA are quite happy for you not to? fit stall strips at all if you instal an approved electrical stall warning system.? The only other time that stall strips may be a desirable addition is if (and this is not uncommon particularly on classics) to reduce the tendancy for one wing to stall before the other ie excessive tendancy to?wing drop at stall. Pete Jeffers -----Original Message----- From: James, Clive R Sent: Sun, 16 Nov 2008 5:20 Subject: Europa-List: Stall strips Many thanks all for the information on fitting the strips. I know have a plan, what to look out for and what to avoid. If I find anything of interest I'll pass it on. I did suggest a warning device but the Chief engineer feels that the strips are required even with an alarm device. Regards, Clive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:35:16 AM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tight control stick Good Day Ron, I was wondering which abrasive compound you were referring to when you describe it as one that cuts, then polishes, and disappears? I could not find anything of this nature at McMaster Carr. It sounds too good to be true and I think would be a God send in certain areas. So could you be more specific? Thanks in advance. Mike Duane **************You Rock! One month of free movies delivered by mail from blockbuster.com ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 11:17:15 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tight control stick From: Fred Klein On Sunday, November 16, 2008, at 06:55 AM, danbish wrote: > What do you think of putting shims in place, front and back, that > would keep the bushing from making contact with the blocks altogether? Dan...I'm unclear as to where or how you might place the shims you speak of on the assumption that your tufno bearing blocks are already securely bonded in place. I do recall my experience when setting the tufnol blocks and fine tuning their alignment using the AN3 bolts...I found that the alignment was extremely sensitive to pressure exerted as the bolts were tightened. The sensitivity was expressed by variance in the ease of side to side movement of the control sticks. Fred A194 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:23 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Non-sucky wing inspection method From: "rparigoris" We came up with a non-sucky inspection method to determine if wing ribs forward of spar are vented. See: http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album257&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php Ron Parigoris Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:26:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tight control stick From: Hi Mike "I was wondering which abrasive compound you were referring to when you > describe it as one that cuts, then polishes, and disappears? I could not find > anything of this nature at McMaster Carr. It sounds too good to be true and I > think would be a God send in certain areas. So could you be more specific?" Here ya go: Timesaving Lapping and Polishing Powders These hardworking powders function first as an abrasive and then as a polish. Plus, they're guaranteed not to embed in any metal surface. Perfect for fitting and smoothing the bearing or contact surfaces of rotating, oscillating, and sliding parts. To use, mix with a thin machine oil (SAE 10 or 20) or heavy gear oil (see page 2120). Powders do not contain harsh abrasives. Soft-metal grade is for use on brass, bronze, aluminum, copper, tin, and other soft metals. Hard-metal grade is for use on steel, cast iron, stainless steel, and other hard metals. Please specify grit: coarse (80 for soft metal and 40 for hard metal), medium (120 for soft metal and 80 for hard metal), fine (220 for soft and hard metal), or extra fine (320 for soft and hard metal). 1-lb. Cans 5-lb. Cans Each Each Soft-Metal Grade 4781A4 $25.24 4781A5 $111.43 Hard-Metal Grade 4781A6 25.24 4781A7 111.43 8-Can Trial Kit One 3-oz. can of each soft-metal and hard-metal grit. 4781A61 Per Kit $73.10 http://www.mcmaster.com/ Page 2635 I used the soft metal grade ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Here is non-staining plumbers lard oil: Cutting and Threading Oil Use at full strength in a variety of machining operations. Mobil Mobilmet 766 and Omega are good for pipe threading applications and contain sulfur. Omicron, 404, and S122 reduce staining and are chlorine free and sulfur free. S122 is water soluble. Heavy Duty These sulfur-based oils are designed for use with ferrous metals; they can stain nonferrous metals. Use alone or blended with other oils. Good for pipe-threading applications. Light Colored Allows you to see your workpiece. Chlorine free. Dark Colored High-lubricity oil allows increased speeds and is especially effective for machining tough ferrous metals. Contains chlorine. Nonstaining Also known as plumber's lard oil, it provides excellent lubricity for fine surface finishes and extended tool life. Plus, it makes a great pipe-threading lubricant. Chlorine free and sulfur free. 1 Gallon 5 Gallon Each Pkg. Partial Full Qty. Pkg. Pkg. Each Mobil Mobilmet 766 6 2507K11 $22.35 $20.32 2507K12 $86.32 Omega 6 2507K3 22.70 20.64 2507K4 76.02 Omicron 6 2507K5 21.95 19.95 2507K6* 79.53 S122 6 2507K7 21.73 19.59 2507K8 85.00 Heavy Duty Light Colored 6 2307K26 16.30 14.66 2307K28 60.28 Dark Colored 6 1011K11 16.48 14.83 1011K12 60.91 Nonstaining Light Colored 6 1308K4 15.64 14.07 1308K2 58.34 * 404. It's on page 2123 Mix up a bit with lap, works great. You could use other types of oil, probably pneumatic air tool oil or sewing machine oil would be fine. Having lard oil around is great. Use on drilling, tapping and sawing all the time. Good luck Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:06 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Stall strips James, Clive R wrote: > > Many thanks all for the information on fitting the strips. > I know have a plan, what to look out for and what to avoid. > If I find anything of interest I'll pass it on. > I did suggest a warning device but the Chief engineer feels that the > strips are required even with an alarm device. > Regards, Clive > I think I agree with the chief engineer. A vicious stall has a very nasty bite and when the work load gets too high no amount of warning will be heard Graham ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:23:57 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tight control stick From: Hi Mike One more thing, I just checked container, used the Extra Fine. http://www.mcmaster.com/ Page 2635 I used the soft metal grade ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:02:55 PM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tight control stick Hi! Ron/Dan/All I notice your recommended product is suitable for METALS and I am concerned that you are using it one of the surfaces which is Tufnol which does tend to absorb your cutting /polishing fluids.( the "grit" value is specified which is a word I'd be scared of on an aluminium tube.) You must be sure to wash it out I was well satisfied that my Brasso did wash out. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sent: 16 November 2008 20:26 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tight control stick Hi Mike "I was wondering which abrasive compound you were referring to when you > describe it as one that cuts, then polishes, and disappears? I could not find > anything of this nature at McMaster Carr. It sounds too good to be true and I > think would be a God send in certain areas. So could you be more specific?" Here ya go: Timesaving Lapping and Polishing Powders These hardworking powders function first as an abrasive and then as a polish. Plus, they're guaranteed not to embed in any metal surface. Perfect for fitting and smoothing the bearing or contact surfaces of rotating, oscillating, and sliding parts. To use, mix with a thin machine oil (SAE 10 or 20) or heavy gear oil (see page 2120). Powders do not contain harsh abrasives. Soft-metal grade is for use on brass, bronze, aluminum, copper, tin, and other soft metals. Hard-metal grade is for use on steel, cast iron, stainless steel, and other hard metals. Please specify grit: coarse (80 for soft metal and 40 for hard metal), medium (120 for soft metal and 80 for hard metal), fine (220 for soft and hard metal), or extra fine (320 for soft and hard metal). 1-lb. Cans 5-lb. Cans Each Each Soft-Metal Grade 4781A4 $25.24 4781A5 $111.43 Hard-Metal Grade 4781A6 25.24 4781A7 111.43 8-Can Trial Kit- One 3-oz. can of each soft-metal and hard-metal grit. 4781A61 Per Kit $73.10 http://www.mcmaster.com/ Page 2635 I used the soft metal grade ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~ Here is non-staining plumbers lard oil: Cutting and Threading Oil Use at full strength in a variety of machining operations. Mobil Mobilmet- 766 and Omega are good for pipe threading applications and contain sulfur. Omicron, 404, and S122 reduce staining and are chlorine free and sulfur free. S122 is water soluble. Heavy Duty- These sulfur-based oils are designed for use with ferrous metals; they can stain nonferrous metals. Use alone or blended with other oils. Good for pipe-threading applications. Light Colored- Allows you to see your workpiece. Chlorine free. Dark Colored- High-lubricity oil allows increased speeds and is especially effective for machining tough ferrous metals. Contains chlorine. Nonstaining- Also known as plumber's lard oil, it provides excellent lubricity for fine surface finishes and extended tool life. Plus, it makes a great pipe-threading lubricant. Chlorine free and sulfur free. 1 Gallon 5 Gallon Each Pkg. Partial Full Qty. Pkg. Pkg. Each Mobil Mobilmet 766 6 2507K11 $22.35 $20.32 2507K12 $86.32 Omega 6 2507K3 22.70 20.64 2507K4 76.02 Omicron 6 2507K5 21.95 19.95 2507K6* 79.53 S122 6 2507K7 21.73 19.59 2507K8 85.00 Heavy Duty Light Colored 6 2307K26 16.30 14.66 2307K28 60.28 Dark Colored 6 1011K11 16.48 14.83 1011K12 60.91 Nonstaining Light Colored 6 1308K4 15.64 14.07 1308K2 58.34 * 404. It's on page 2123 Mix up a bit with lap, works great. You could use other types of oil, probably pneumatic air tool oil or sewing machine oil would be fine. Having lard oil around is great. Use on drilling, tapping and sawing all the time. Good luck Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:34:48 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tight control stick From: "rparigoris" Hi Bob The beauty of this lap is it does not use abrasives as you know them. It begins as a lap, shortly turns to a polish, then disappears. It disappears not because it is washed out, but breaks down quickly and disolves! the instructions enclosed in the container states it is even safe to use inside an internal combustion engine that is not disassembled and cleaned thorough. It guarentees that it will not continue to cut, it just breaks down quickly and stops cutting completly. That said you need to keep adding fresh lap if you want to continue cutting, you can easily tell when it is just polishing. The downside is it makes a mess so you need to plan for such. We used the extra fine soft compound. Even if it did not remove any Tufnal at all, but lapped off a few thousands of aluminium, thats OK. I am confident that there will be no further cutting. I just don't know for sure if Chrome polish or Brasso leaves behind anything that would continue to cut?? Lard oil is pretty clear, just flush till things come clear, then we flushed with a little alcohol. Did shoot a tiny little bit of fast drying teflon lubricant after we were done, but not before letting Tufnal live in it for some time to make sure it would not swell again. Ron P. Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:33 PM PST US From: "Troy Maynor" Subject: Europa-List: Remote Oil Pressure Hi Folks, I need help from those of you that have remotely mounted your oil pressure switch. Can you tell me the size of the fittings and hose and/or manifold that you used to connect? I plan to mount it on the stbd. footwell along with a double throw pressure switch that will run a hobbs or the master light on. Thanks in advance. Troy Maynor N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic Left to finish: Seats, engine install underway, some wiring. 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