Europa-List Digest Archive

Fri 11/28/08


Total Messages Posted: 15



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     0. 12:16 AM - Just 3 Days Left - Please Make Your List Contribution Today! (Matt Dralle)
     1. 03:30 AM - Re: Rotax 912UL perfermance and fuel figures (David Joyce)
     2. 03:47 AM - Re: Re: Europa - Extra Gas/ Instrument Rating. (David Joyce)
     3. 04:10 AM - Re: Pilot Relief Systems (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
     4. 07:06 AM - Re: Re: Pilot Relief Systems (JEFF ROBERTS)
     5. 07:23 AM - Re: Rotax 912UL perfermance and fuel figures (David Buckley)
     6. 11:18 AM -  Re: Use of Ferrite Cores & RFI (steve v)
     7. 12:36 PM - Re: Re: Europa - Extra Gas/ Instrument Rating. (karelvranken)
     8. 03:23 PM - MicroAir M760 radio (Tom Friedland)
     9. 06:38 PM - Sky-Tec Starter (Martin Tuck)
    10. 08:33 PM - speaking of starters (Fred Klein)
    11. 09:07 PM - Re: speaking of starters (craig bastin)
    12. 11:10 PM - Re: Re: Pilot Relief Systems (Greg Fuchs)
    13. 11:18 PM - Re: speaking of starters (Greg Fuchs)
    14. 11:46 PM - Re: speaking of starters (Alan)
 
 
 


Message 0


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    Time: 12:16:12 AM PST US
    From: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
    Subject: Just 3 Days Left - Please Make Your List Contribution Today!
    There are only three days left until the end of this year's List Fund Raiser. Please take a minute to show your support as so many others have this year and make sure YOUR name is on the forthcoming List of Contributors 2008! Its quick and easy using the secure web site with a credit card or PayPal: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by sending your personal check to: Matronics Lists c/o Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore, CA 94551-0347 (Please write your email address on the check!) Thank you in advance for your support of these List services! Matt Dralle Matronics Email and Forum Administrator


    Message 1


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    Time: 03:30:19 AM PST US
    From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
    Subject: Re: Rotax 912UL perfermance and fuel figures
    Marcel, I have toured around Europe quite a bit with G-BWON, (+ 2 pax, + full fuel, +luggage), and we have managed 3 hr legs at 110 kts with a good reserve. I wouldn't personally be too troubled about taking off with full fuel even if that put your take off weight a touch over theoretical maximum, as long as C of G is within limits. Plenty of Europas have shown that they still fly pretty well like that. Personally (but with a 914), I manage about 13 litres/hr at such speeds but trigears do use a bit more. I am sure that Bob Hitchcock could give you accurate fuel burn figures for sensible cruise speeds. Incidentally I can confirm that Midden Zeeland is a nice airfield to stop at & refuel, if you need to, but my feeling is that you would certainly not need to. The route via Deal, Dunkerque, Zeebrugge, Breskens, Zaltbommel to Hoogeveen is about 250 Nm and you should be able to do that with a 30 kt headwind or worse! Regards, David Joyce (the other one, not the one you bought your plane from !), G-XSDJ


    Message 2


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    Time: 03:47:50 AM PST US
    From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
    Subject: Re: Europa - Extra Gas/ Instrument Rating.
    Willie, Glider pilots who may need to fly for 7 hrs or more get used to peeing in flight, and I am not aware of one who has had any great difficulty doing so in a Europa. William Mills had a glider style Pee tube fitted (essentially a sort of funnel draining into a tube which voided into the atmosphere somewhere down behind the wheel), and I find a bottle (actually a washed out 1 litre oil container, which fits into one of the spaces below the seat) serves entirely well. If needs must, you do get to know your passenger quite well, but if embarrassed they can always be asked to study the horizon at 3 o'clock! One practical point to mention: Once when crossing the E.German/Czech border with trees to the horizon in all directions, having had a pee, I found that all my instruments were 'out', with no indication of any electricity flowing any where, including to the 2 electric fuel pumps to my 914. At the time I thought that the plane was running on the fuel in the carb bowls. This did tend to induce the sort of intense concentration that is a few millimetres from panic! Fortunately a standard wizz round the panel to check switches & CBs showed that both Main & Alternator toggle switches had been switched off by my trouser bottom, when I had lifted up my left leg to replace the pee bottle under the seat! I have since discovered that the standard Europa wiring allows one pump to be supplied direct from the alternator even when both switches are off. Regards, David ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Harrison" <willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk> Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 10:10 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa - Extra Gas/ Instrument Rating. > <willie.harrison@tinyonline.co.uk> > > These are good subjects to link as concentrating on IFR flying with a > full bladder is 10x harder than when VFR. I used to use a "Littlejohn" > in the PA 28 but the seat angle and cockpit size of the Europa makes this > impractical... > > Anyway guys, I heard a rumour that our glider pilot brothers use a kind > of exterior catheter device (designed for incontinent men) to enable them > to do in-flight defuelling. Leaving aside the toilet humour associated > with this, does anyone know anything about this? > > Willie Harrison > G-BZNY: another 20 hours this month > > > On 20 Nov 2008, at 16:19, rampil wrote: > >> >> Hey Bud! >> >> Ya know, if you fit a long range tank to my Europa, >> I can get my buddies to fit you with your own long range tank! >> >> ;-) >> >> ijr >> >> -------- >> Ira N224XS >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=215347#215347 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >


    Message 3


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    Time: 04:10:05 AM PST US
    From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
    Subject: Re: Pilot Relief Systems
    In a message dated 11/28/2008 2:59:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, europa-list@matronics.com writes: >>>>Going to that trouble, you might just do like the trains used to do, and suck it outdoors! <<<<< Hi Greg, Necessity is the mother of invention. Glider tasks for soaring badges and contests very often last well beyond bladder capacity for most pilots. Before anybody reinvents the wheel, check out this page from Wings and Wheels glider supply. _http://wingsandwheels.com/page42.htm_ (http://wingsandwheels.com/page42.htm) Scroll down towards the bottom for the info. It describes how to make a "pilot relief system" and has the parts available, save the external cathetor, which are usually available from any decent medical supply house. Size definitely matters with external cathetors, so it's probably best to let your wife pick out the correct size........ Glider pilots have also been using what are commonly referred to as "Polish Microphones" for this use and most come factory installed. These are essentially a round, tennis ball sized cup that is attached to the end of a hose which feeds to a hole in the bottom of the fuselage, usually directly below the seat pan. They do indeed dump overboard out a hole in the bottom of the fuselage. Another cheaper alternative, and the one I prefer because it's much easier to use, is to tear out the absorbent material from a diaper. Put this material into a gallon sized freezer zip lock bag, Freezer bags are recommended because they are thicker and less prone to leaking. When nature calls, use the bag and the absorbent material will help prevent accidental leaks by trapping the liquid. The used bag can then be disposed of later when back on terra firma. You can also buy "portable restroom" bags, but they are cheaper to make from common items from the grocery store. These zip lock relief bags also make good "yak sacks" should a passenger ever offer you a "technicolor yawn"....... Hope it helps! Regards, John Lawton Whitwell, TN (TN89) N245E - Flying **************Life should be easier. So should your homepage. Try the NEW AOL.com.


    Message 4


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    Time: 07:06:33 AM PST US
    From: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff@rmmm.net>
    Subject: Re: Pilot Relief Systems
    John you have a great way of bringing fun to a standoff subject. I like the tube Idea and I wonder if that simple shutoff valve could work with the fuel injection line I use. I usually drain the tanks to change my filters but I love that simple valve for 2 bucks shown on the same page. Regards, Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 180 hours and enjoying this plane more every time I fly it. On Nov 28, 2008, at 5:59 AM, TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote: > > > > In a message dated 11/28/2008 2:59:36 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, > europa-list@matronics.com writes: >> >>>>Going to that trouble, you might just do like the trains used to >> do, and >> suck it outdoors! <<<<< > Hi Greg, > > Necessity is the mother of invention. Glider tasks for soaringbadges > and contests very often last well beyond bladder capacity for most > pilots. Before anybody reinvents the wheel, check out this page from > Wings and Wheels glider supply. > http://wingsandwheels.com/page42.htmScroll down towards the bottom > for the info. It describes how to make a "pilot relief system" and has > the parts available, save the external cathetor, which are usually > available from any decent medical supply house. Size definitely > matters with external cathetors, so it's probably best to let your > wife pick out the correct size........ > > Glider pilots have alsobeen using what are commonlyreferred to as > "Polish Microphones" for this useand most come factory installed. > These are essentially around, tennis ball sized cup that is attached > to the end of a hose which feeds to a hole in the bottom of > thefuselage, usually directly below the seat pan.They do indeed > dump overboard out a hole in the bottom of the fuselage. > > Another cheaper alternative, and the one I prefer because it's much > easier to use, is to tear outthe absorbent material from a diaper. > Put this material into agallonsizedfreezer zip lock bag, Freezer > bags are recommended because they are thicker and less prone to > leaking.When nature calls, use the bag and the absorbent material > will help prevent accidental leaks by trapping the liquid.The used > bagcan then be disposed of later when back on terra firma. You can > also buy "portable restroom" bags, butthey are cheaper to make from > common items from the grocery store.Thesezip lock relief bagsalso > make good "yak sacks" should a passenger everoffer you a "technicolor > yawn"....... > > Hope it helps! > > Regards, > > John Lawton > Whitwell, TN (TN89) > N245E - Flying > > > Life should be easier. > So=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000002">Try the NEW AOL.com. >


    Message 5


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    Time: 07:23:47 AM PST US
    From: "David Buckley" <wooburnaviation@googlemail.com>
    Subject: Re: Rotax 912UL perfermance and fuel figures
    Marcel, I had a 912 UL trike, and support what David Joyce (G-XSDJ) said. I would recon on doing that trip in a single tank of fuel, even with headwinds. I used to fly longer distances at 107 KIAS, as that seemed to be the "sweet spot" in terms of minimum vibration, and I have a lot of "mechanical sympathy". I was burning 15 litres an airbourne hour at gross weight (1370lbs)/625kg) using unleaded petrol. Hope that helps, and good luck with the trip. Ps In the past I have diverted to Le Touquet (LFAT), Ostend (EBOS), and Brussles Charleroi (EBCI, I think). All have been more than helpful, and not to expensive. Dave Buckley 2008/11/28 David Joyce <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> > davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> > > Marcel, I have toured around Europe quite a bit with G-BWON, (+ 2 pax, + > full fuel, +luggage), and we have managed 3 hr legs at 110 kts with a good > reserve. I wouldn't personally be too troubled about taking off with full > fuel even if that put your take off weight a touch over theoretical maximum, > as long as C of G is within limits. Plenty of Europas have shown that they > still fly pretty well like that. Personally (but with a 914), I manage about > 13 litres/hr at such speeds but trigears do use a bit more. I am sure that > Bob Hitchcock could give you accurate fuel burn figures for sensible cruise > speeds. > Incidentally I can confirm that Midden Zeeland is a nice airfield to > stop at & refuel, if you need to, but my feeling is that you would certainly > not need to. The route via Deal, Dunkerque, Zeebrugge, Breskens, Zaltbommel > to Hoogeveen is about 250 Nm and you should be able to do that with a 30 kt > headwind or worse! > Regards, David Joyce (the other one, not the one you bought your plane from > !), G-XSDJ > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 11:18:57 AM PST US
    Subject: Re: Use of Ferrite Cores & RFI
    From: "steve v " <s@vestuti.orangehome.co.uk>
    Hi, I today sat in the europa with a hand held , engine running - & non running, and varius circuit breaker configurations, it appears that i have been to quick to blame the Airmaster Prop., the interference seems to be coming from the ignition /mags - the right mag emitting more interference than the left. the "buzzing" is in frequency with engine RPM. I recall that at the time of fitting the Airmaster i may have "coiled" the excess mag. cables. The shielded mag. cables are only grounded at the key switch end, i will uncoil the two mag. cables next but what else can be done to reduce ignition interference? - what about the "twisted pair" method? thanks to all the overseas builders for your feedback, steve #573 G-CEBV Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:36:05 PM PST US
    From: "karelvranken" <karelvranken@hotmail.com>
    Subject: Re: Europa - Extra Gas/ Instrument Rating.
    Graham, During the 26 years that I was flying my PIK 20E I was equiped and used regurarily my P-tube. I bought in a medicinal shop a rubber pear such as women used for intimacy care. Easy to connect at a plastic tube that ran in the wheelwell. Upside down you can cut an orifice at measure not realy on top so that there is no waste. Many times I had royal feelings by making water over the whole world. Best regards, Karel Vranken. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Singleton" <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2008 4:16 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa - Extra Gas/ Instrument Rating. > <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com> > > I once used the P tube in my glider at 18,000 feet over Scotland. It was > cold! > First problem was finding the offending thingy (they shrink in the cold) > through several layers of clothing and two layers of straps, (seat harness > and parachute harness) Next problem was trying to do it uphill so I > lowered the flaps to get the attitude a bit more favourable. That helped. > Still it was better than having to descend which took a good half an hour > when I finally did come down. > Incidentally, on a more serious note, at a recent "speed awareness course" > they told us "never crash with a full bladder". A burst bladder is a very > serious injury. Straps can kill too :-( > Graham > craig bastin wrote: >> <craigb@onthenet.com.au> >> >> I was planning on simmilar with a small venturi or simmilar to suck a >> light >> vaccuum on a line >> installed under the dash and then modify some small plastic cups to plug >> into the line if needed >> so you can throw them away after use. only problem i can see is if your >> passenger is the shy type >> some sort of privacy screen would be needed >> >> craig > > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 03:23:19 PM PST US
    From: "Tom Friedland" <96victor@gmail.com>
    Subject: MicroAir M760 radio
    Does anyone know where can get a good price on one? I have two in my Europa and am looking for another for a Breezy that a number of limited finance people (including me) are building. Any leads appreciated. Tom Friedland


    Message 9


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    Time: 06:38:20 PM PST US
    From: Martin Tuck <MJKTuck@cs.com>
    Subject: Sky-Tec Starter
    Hi Folks, Has anyone replaced their older Rotax 912UL starter with a Sky-Tec starter? This one claims to crank 10% faster and lower current draw compared to the old Rotax starter. I believe the newer Rotax starters are also faster cranking than the originals but is the Sky-Tec one the same spec? Also, can it be retro-fitted with the engine in situ? Regards, Martin Tuck Europa N152MT Wichita, Kansas


    Message 10


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    Time: 08:33:45 PM PST US
    Subject: speaking of starters
    From: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
    Who needs one?...why not just hand-prop it? BTW, what's wrong with this picture? -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. NO CHOCKS! do not archive


    Message 11


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    Time: 09:07:59 PM PST US
    From: "craig bastin" <craigb@onthenet.com.au>
    Subject: speaking of starters
    oh oh i know, shes not wearing any gloves to protect her hands :) -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fred Klein Sent: Saturday, 29 November 2008 2:32 PM Subject: Europa-List: speaking of starters Who needs one?...why not just hand-prop it? BTW, what's wrong with this picture? -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 7:31 PM


    Message 12


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    Time: 11:10:27 PM PST US
    From: "Greg Fuchs " <gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Pilot Relief Systems
    HaHa! So this is just a common thing, apparently. Lots of interesting responses in this thread. It is amazing what you can learn from this site. To increase the need to use a pilot relief system, and add more flight time, one can build in a wing tank. I haven't looked at any CG numbers, but am half considering putting wing tanks in the XS wing rear of the wing spar. Even two smaller tanks, say 2-3 gallons each in 2 wells, in both wings, would add 8-12 gallons, or about 2-4 hours more flight time, at a cost of only about 24 - 36 lbs per wing. Fill could be provided by pump transfer from the main tank, hence no extra fuel cap needed. Interesting food for thought.. Greg _________________________________________________________ ... check out this page from Wings and Wheels glider supply. http://wingsandwheels.com/page42.htm It describes how to make a "pilot relief system" and has the parts available, save the external cathetor, which are usually available from any decent medical supply house. Size definitely matters with external cathetors, so it's probably best to let your wife pick out the correct size........ Hope it helps! Regards, John Lawton


    Message 13


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    Time: 11:18:30 PM PST US
    From: "Greg Fuchs " <gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net>
    Subject: speaking of starters
    There doesn't appear to be a plane in this picture, or maybe I just missed it for some reason. Just an aluminum handrail in which her hands are spread out on... :) _________________________________________________ Who needs one?...why not just hand-prop it? BTW, what's wrong with this picture?


    Message 14


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    Time: 11:46:35 PM PST US
    From: Alan <alanb@dpy01.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: speaking of starters




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