---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 12/28/08: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:02 AM - Anyone have an aft mounted Odyssey PC535 or PC545? (rparigoris) 2. 07:15 AM - Re: Anyone have an aft mounted Odyssey PC535 or PC545? (Robert Borger) 3. 08:06 AM - Re: Mod 73 - a safer approach (Brad Shafer) 4. 03:23 PM - Prop Efficiency (rampil) 5. 05:00 PM - Re: power settings (rampil) 6. 05:10 PM - Re: Prop Efficiency (Gilles Thesee) 7. 07:31 PM - Re: Prop Efficiency (rampil) 8. 07:40 PM - Re: Prop Efficiency (ALAN YERLY) 9. 09:49 PM - Re: Prop Efficiency (Fred Klein) 10. 11:41 PM - Re: Prop Efficiency (Robert C Harrison) 11. 11:41 PM - Re: Prop Efficiency (Robert C Harrison) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:02:56 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Anyone have an aft mounted Odyssey PC535 or PC545? From: "rparigoris" Anyone have an aft mounted Odyssey PC535 or PC545? What motor you have? What size cables? How old is battery? How has battery performed? Does battery have a metal jacket? I am considering one of these batteries for aft mounted XS monowheel 914 install with CCA #4 cables. I have new style starter (more torque and less amp draw). 535 and 545 is lighter than 625 (12.0lbs + 11.7lbs compared to 13.2). Aluminium wires will save ~ 1 pound over #4 copper tefzel from ACS. Since battery is not in engine compartment I don't think I need a metal jacket. Please set me straight if you think a metal jacket is a good idea. Ron Parigoris Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:15:27 AM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Re: Europa-List: Anyone have an aft mounted Odyssey PC535 or PC545? Hi Ron, You are probably aware of my aircraft through the build web site, but here are the answers for my build. No recommendations, just answers. On Dec 28, 2008, at 1:59, rparigoris wrote: > > > > Anyone have an aft mounted Odyssey PC535 or PC545? I have an aft-mounted Odessey PC680 (RG/AGM, 680 cranking amps & 15 lbs.) > What motor you have? Rotax 914UL with the high-torque starter. > > What size cables? #4 copper as provided by Europa with the electrical harness kit. > > How old is battery? 4 years, mostly in storage > > How has battery performed? Fantastic. After two years in storage, without putting it on a charger, it still ran my instrument panel. Ran the panel tests for several months before I put it on a charger the first time. Most of the last two years it ran electrical tests on the airframe with occasional re-charging with a plain vanilla Sears battery charger. The 680 has served to setup the engine for starting (building initial oil pressure, etc.) and has started the 914 several times. The battery will turn the 914 with great vigor, such that it will start with the passage of two of three three blades. About 6 months ago I purchased a new Schumacher intelligent charger/maintainer (as recommended by 'Lectric Bob) which has been on it almost continuously since. > > Does battery have a metal jacket? No, but it is on a metal tray and is secured with a metal strap. > I am considering one of these batteries for aft mounted XS monowheel > 914 install with CCA #4 cables. I have new style starter (more > torque and less amp draw). > > 535 and 545 is lighter than 625 (12.0lbs + 11.7lbs compared to > 13.2). Aluminium wires will save ~ 1 pound over #4 copper tefzel > from ACS. > > Since battery is not in engine compartment I don't think I need a > metal jacket. Please set me straight if you think a metal jacket is > a good idea. > > Ron Parigoris Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL (99.999% done) Essentially complete. Running Tests & Final Inspections. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:06:52 AM PST US From: Brad Shafer Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 - a safer approach Rick, Not sure if it would. Bill McClellan has it next. So you might want to get it from him and see if it helps. I've copied Bill on this. I'm sending the mandrel to him on Monday. Brad From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Stockton Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 10:15 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 73 - a safer approach Brad, I was wondering if the mandrel might help me. After completing MOD 7 3 without using the torque tube. I have a build up of restin on the bearin g surface. I have tried to remove it with some different methods, but so f ar I have not had a lot of luck. 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= 3D ________________________________ DISCLAIMER: This e-mail and any attachments to it may contain confidential and propriet ary material and is solely for the use of the intended recipient. Any revie w, use, disclosure, distribution or copying of this transmittal is prohibit ed except by or on behalf of the intended recipient. If you have received t his transmittal in error, please notify the sender and destroy this e-mail and any attachments and all copies, whether electronic or printed. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:23:11 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Prop Efficiency From: "rampil" Hi All, Bud was bemoaning the lack of data on Europa props. Here is a short article on how to estimate prop performance by John Lowry: http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/182418-1.html Lowry is the author of Performance of Light Aircraft (1999) published by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics. (yes, you could say the book is authoritative). Sorry Gary, more numbers! Happy New Year! -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221516#221516 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:00:22 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: power settings From: "rampil" A small follow-up on the power vs altitude issue. The power increase that occurs with altitude at constant MAP is due to the drop in pressure to which exhaust gas is vented. Lowry, JT: Performance of Light Aircraft (AIAA, 1999) page 129. See also Gagg & Farrar (1934) Altitude Performance of Aircraft Engines equipped with Gear Driven Superchargers. Soc. Automotive Engineers Trans. 29:217-233 -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221524#221524 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:10:46 PM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Prop Efficiency rampil a crit : > http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/182418-1.html > > Lowry is the author of Performance of Light Aircraft (1999) > published by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics. > Great book indeed, for the mathematically inclined minds. Bought it 4 years ago. Unfortunately, the Bootstrap approach is more difficult to implement with a constant speed prop. Season's greetings, Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:31:09 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Prop Efficiency From: "rampil" Hi Giles, The link I provided is the Constant Speed discussion. There is nothing too tough here. Give me a few weeks of decent flying weather and I will try to have results. First I need a table to convert TAS back to CAS ;-) -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221544#221544 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:12 PM PST US From: "ALAN YERLY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Prop Efficiency Ira, Great article on trying to simplify prop performance estimates. I spent the morning today going through my prop stuff looking to do the same. Nothing simple about it, it is all time consuming and laborious. It's a lot more fun to fly, especially with the reduction in gas prices. In the past, I had never ran across Lowry's in my search of the NACA/NASA sites or book sites, but then again, the last time I actually had a new text book in my hand was 30 years ago. Now with my son Eric in Aero at Central Florida, I am disturbed that none of their texts reference much about old technology stuff like propellers used in general aviation. See you at SnF if you can make it... Bud P.S. It was 82 at the shop today. Wanted to turn the air on. ----- Original Message ----- From: rampil To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 6:21 PM Subject: Europa-List: Prop Efficiency > Hi All, Bud was bemoaning the lack of data on Europa props. Here is a short article on how to estimate prop performance by John Lowry: http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/182418-1.html Lowry is the author of Performance of Light Aircraft (1999) published by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics. (yes, you could say the book is authoritative). Sorry Gary, more numbers! Happy New Year! -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221516#221516 http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:49:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Prop Efficiency From: Fred Klein On Sunday, December 28, 2008, at 07:33 PM, ALAN YERLY wrote: > P.S. It was 82 at the shop today. Wanted to turn the air on. Geez...and I was stackin a freshly cut cord of seasoned firewood (in the snow)... Fred do not archive -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:01 PM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Prop Efficiency That's why for four years with the MT Constant Speed Prop the Jabiru Factory steadfastly refused to provide any power graphs or curves relative to MAP for the 3300 engine because it would highlight the truth! Compliments of the season Gilles. Bob H G-PTG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gilles Thesee Sent: 29 December 2008 01:10 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Prop Efficiency rampil a crit : > http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/182418-1.html > > Lowry is the author of Performance of Light Aircraft (1999) > published by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics. > Great book indeed, for the mathematically inclined minds. Bought it 4 years ago. Unfortunately, the Bootstrap approach is more difficult to implement with a constant speed prop. Season's greetings, Best regards, -- Gilles http://contrails.free.fr ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:41:56 PM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Prop Efficiency Hi! Alan How come your gas prices have come down ? Regards Bob Harrison -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ALAN YERLY Sent: 29 December 2008 03:34 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Prop Efficiency Ira, Great article on trying to simplify prop performance estimates. I spent the morning today going through my prop stuff looking to do the same. Nothing simple about it, it is all time consuming and laborious. It's a lot more fun to fly, especially with the reduction in gas prices. In the past, I had never ran across Lowry's in my search of the NACA/NASA sites or book sites, but then again, the last time I actually had a new text book in my hand was 30 years ago. Now with my son Eric in Aero at Central Florida, I am disturbed that none of their texts reference much about old technology stuff like propellers used in general aviation. See you at SnF if you can make it... Bud P.S. It was 82 at the shop today. Wanted to turn the air on. ----- Original Message ----- From: rampil Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 6:21 PM Subject: Europa-List: Prop Efficiency Hi All, Bud was bemoaning the lack of data on Europa props. Here is a short article on how to estimate prop performance by John Lowry: http://www.avweb.com/news/airman/182418-1.html Lowry is the author of Performance of Light Aircraft (1999) published by the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics. (yes, you could say the book is authoritative). Sorry Gary, more numbers! Happy New Year! -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=221516#221516 http://www.matronics.com/c Thank you for your generous ; -Matt Dralle, List nbsp; Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com _============= ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.