---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/05/09: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:29 AM - Re: Tannkosh and Mode S requirements in Germany? () 2. 03:39 AM - Bubble doors (Remi Guerner) 3. 03:58 AM - Re: Bubble doors (Graham Singleton) 4. 04:48 AM - Tannkosh and other events in Germany (UVTReith) 5. 09:27 AM - Re: Mixture control (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 6. 09:55 AM - Bubble doors (Erich Trombley) 7. 09:59 AM - Re: Monowheel Support (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 8. 10:06 AM - Re: Bubble doors (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 9. 11:03 AM - Re: Skymap 111C battery (zwakie) 10. 11:33 AM - Re: Skymap 111C battery (Richard Iddon) 11. 12:37 PM - Importing a Europa to the USA (Robert Hatton) 12. 12:55 PM - Re: Silicone Radiator Hose (David Buckley) 13. 01:06 PM - Re: Non-equity member operating groups in the UK (David Buckley) 14. 01:09 PM - Re: Non-equity member operating groups in the UK (David Buckley) 15. 01:18 PM - Re: Importing a Europa to the USA (Robert Borger) 16. 02:25 PM - Re: Importing a Europa to the USA (Mike Parkin) 17. 04:48 PM - Re: Bubble doors (Lance Sandford) 18. 04:51 PM - Re: Importing a Europa to the USA (Robert Hatton) 19. 07:46 PM - Re: Importing a Europa to the USA (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:29:22 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tannkosh and Mode S requirements in Germany? Hi willie I will probably be going so hope to see you there, Regards Ivor Phillips Tannkosh is scheduled for 17 to 19 July. There is interest from a > couple of us (me plus Alasdair Milne) to fly in. Any other takers? > > Does anyone know how Mode S is being imposed in Germany currently? > > Auf weidersein > > Willie Harrison > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:39:58 AM PST US From: "Remi Guerner" Subject: Europa-List: Bubble doors Frank, I suggest you also try to put more cushion on the lower back of the seat to get a more reclined position. The upper portion of the seat back should be as thin as possible. Moving your bottom forward will increase your head clearance. However this will also reduce your leg room. Regards Remi Guerner F-PGKL >>>>>>>>>>Work more with those cushions before you go to the trouble of replacing the doors/windows.<<<< ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:47 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Bubble doors Remi Guerner wrote: > Frank, > I suggest you also try to put more cushion on the lower back of the > seat to get a more reclined position. The upper portion of the seat > back should be as thin as possible. Moving your bottom forward will > increase your head clearance. However this will also reduce your leg room. > Regards > Remi Guerner > F-PGKL Frank If you have long body/short legs this will work well. I cut out the thigh supports and rebuilt them shaped to fit buttocks. Very comfortable and only needs thin cushion, (but bean bag is the best, you can change position and still have even pressure) Graham ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:48:07 AM PST US From: "UVTReith" Subject: Europa-List: Tannkosh and other events in Germany Hi Europa Family (obviously the European part only or you can make it over the pod), Tannkosh is a nice place to go and I fly in too, when it will be possible. However there are some other but smaller events where it will be worth to go like the OUV fly-in etc. It is a bit early for fixing all these dates at the moment but I guess by mid to end Feb. all dates will be available. I will issue the important dates via this forum. On other hand we should also build up Europa fleets for events in England, France, Austria and other countries an our friends from the other countries should do the same, so that we can create a nice fly-in programme. It would be great to show the strength of the Europa Family to all the others. I am wishing you all a successful 2009, health and a lot of pleasure. Best Regards, Bruno www.europa-aircraft.de -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com Gesendet: Montag, 5. Januar 2009 11:27 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: Re: Europa-List: Tannkosh and Mode S requirements in Germany? Hi willie I will probably be going so hope to see you there, Regards Ivor Phillips Tannkosh is scheduled for 17 to 19 July. There is interest from a > couple of us (me plus Alasdair Milne) to fly in. Any other takers? > > Does anyone know how Mode S is being imposed in Germany currently? > > Auf weidersein > > Willie Harrison > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:27:56 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mixture control From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Hi Remi, We are members of the Experimental Aircraft Association who have built an 'experimental aircraft'. As such, among other things not included in our standard kit, we have installed a mixture control on our 912S which bleeds manifold pressure back into the carb bowl vents. Testing has shown that the standard rotax carb settings are actually lean-of-peak at sea level on the front two cylinders and that it (of course) gets richer with altitude, passing thru peak and on down the richer side of peak EGT with increasing altitude. It is our assumption that it is acceptable for them to run the engines this way (lean of peak at take off) because the heads are liquid cooled. We believe it is then a fair assumption that we can run the engine lean-of-peak at altitude and <75% power, given that the factory settings run the engine lean-of-peak at full power/sea level. Of course we monitor our exhaust, head, water, and oil temps just to make sure everything is happy while leaning at altitude. regards, Terry Seaver A135/N135TD Monowheel XS, 912S, Airmaster prop ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Remi Guerner Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 11:53 AM Subject: Europa-List: Mixture control Ron, You will be adding a complicated system to an already complicated engine. I am afraid this will further reduce the reliability of your engine. Dealing with this sort of experiment on the ground (I mean on a car or a motorbike) is something. Doing it on an airplane is another story, especially if you want to use your bird as a reasonably reliable cross country machine. Just my personal opinion. Regards Remi >>>>>>>>>>>N4211W not flying yet, but have and will install a mixture control on 914. First off installed will be a Split Second mixture display that is driven by a Bosch O2 sensor (will weld a bung on the muffler inlet just downstream of turbo). Slight different install on 914 because of Turbo compared to 912/s, but will use a needle valve to leak pressure from normal airbox pressure side of enrichment solenoid to manifold cross tube. The more I leak the leaner the mixture will be. This will require a run of hose to cockpit then to manifold cross tube, I will use high temperature Viton tubing. I will slight richen mixture on main jet and perhaps even jet needle, I always like to run slight rich when you are making a lot of BTUs such as 100% power or in 914s case War emergency of 115%. It can also cool things a little on a hot engine (including when stuck on ground). Then will size a restriction on the controlled "leak" to manifold cross tube so it will allow me to only lean to ~14.7 at 18K. Then will have an emergency "rich" button that will allow me to activate enrichment solenoid that could further richen mixture on less than War emergency power if I wish. In addition the emergency "rich" button will completely bypass all my additional plumbing. For either a 912/S or 914 install, if you at cruise power if you pull throttle without closing off your controlled leak, your engine is probably going to quit. On the other hand, if you set mixture at lets say 60% power and adjust mixture, if you increase power you will go richer than probably desired. Another problem is if you lean at altitude, when you come down things will lean up further. Having a Split Second display is a nice tool for this control, a EGT (which I have one on each side of motor) is only semi useful. HAC has or had a altitude adjusting bellows, I would rather have full manual control. I am a motorhead and feel very comfortable fiddling with carburation. If you can't tune a lawnmower engine to perfection by ear, owned a hot 2 stroke cycle that you managed to run on the edge for long periods without blowing up, probably not worth considering the controlled 'leak' method of adjusting Type 64 constant depression carbs. Ron P.>>>>>>>>>>>> ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:55:09 AM PST US From: "Erich Trombley" Subject: Europa-List: Bubble doors Frank,I concur with Karl, try memory foam. Additionally, I found the de sign of the seat bottom and seat back to be critically important if you are to fly more than a couple of hours at a time. I am 6'1" (186cm)and am able to fly 4 hour legs without complaint. The key for me was to hav e a semi-reclined seating position with good lumbar support. This is ac hieved by having the seat back follow the angle of the head rest (rather than have it flush vertically against the cockpit module. This puts th e bottom of the seat back cushion around 4" or so from the back of the c ockpit module. The seat bottom is made from tempur foam utilizing two 1 " thick plys of foam (one blue and one green). I have posted a few pict ures on the builder forum.Regards,Erich TrombleyN28ET Classic Mono 914Tr y using a cushion out of memory foam. You must be very tall.KarlFrom: fr ank@kusserow-online.comTo: europa-list@matronics.comSubject: Europa-List : Bubble doorsDate: Sun=2C 4 Jan 2009 00:11:46 +0100Dear All=2Clast November I bought D-EJWD=2C a Europa Classic Mono with Rotax 912 UL.Si nce the headroom is definately not sufficient with cussions installed ju st thick enough for a comfortable seating position (for max. 2 hour-flig hts) - I am looking for those bubble doors I have seen on few UK-picture s on europaowners.org.Where are they from? Did aerodynamics change with installation? Are there any other options of getting more headroom easil y?Thanks for a hint or two.Regards=2CFrank KusserowEuropa Classic Mono Essen/Germany ____________________________________________________________ Learn about VA loan programs and benefits. Click now. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbuptywh8aHCuRRIcYmHQA0R 8daSTJR3ITGWr0Y6uczuab6bV/ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:59:27 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Monowheel Support From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Hi Jim, We use the wooden jacking block when we just need to remove the wheel. When working on the gear (and needing to retract it) we put blocks under the wings at the spar locations. We first remove the tailplanes and put saw horses under the tailplane torque tubes to level the plane. We then tie weights to the tail wheel to keep the tail down once the plane is resting on the wing spars. We then jack the plane up with the jacking block and put the blocks under the wings, with blue foam pieces touching the wing skin to minimize scratches, etc. We can then lower the jack, leaving the plane on the wing blocks. The weight on the tail is necessary because the plane will be nose heavy (stable in pitch) when resting on blocks at the center of lift. Regards, Terry Seaver -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of h&jeuropa Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 1:30 PM Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel Support We discovered our monowheel tire is flat yesterday. We have a fixture like Terry Steaver's to jack up the airplane. In the past when we have put blocks under the spars near the fuselage to support the airplane with the wheel off, the wings don't sit flat on them (tailwheel on the ground) and the support seems unstable (like the wings want to slide off the rear of the blocks). How do others support their airplane with the wheel off for maintenance? Thanks Jim & Heather N241BW Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=222840#222840 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:06:15 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Bubble doors From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" One comment on tempur foam. We had it in both our seat bottoms and the back, where the lumbar support is. On longer trips, we both had some back pain. We discovered that the carefully placed lumbar support was going away because the tempur foam was relaxing over time (due to body heat?). We replaced the tempur foam at the seat back with regular upholstery foam, which solved the problem. Of course, we left the tempur foam in the seat bottom to provide the crash protection it provides. regards, Terry Seaver ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Erich Trombley Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:52 AM Subject: Europa-List: Bubble doors Frank, I concur with Karl, try memory foam. Additionally, I found the design of the seat bottom and seat back to be critically important if you are to fly more than a couple of hours at a time. I am 6'1" (186cm)and am able to fly 4 hour legs without complaint. The key for me was to have a semi-reclined seating position with good lumbar support. This is achieved by having the seat back follow the angle of the head rest (rather than have it flush vertically against the cockpit module. This puts the bottom of the seat back cushion around 4" or so from the back of the cockpit module. The seat bottom is made from tempur foam utilizing two 1" thick plys of foam (one blue and one green). I have posted a few pictures on the builder forum. Regards, Erich Trombley N28ET Classic Mono 914 Try using a cushion out of memory foam. You must be very tall. Karl From: frank@kusserow-online.comTo : europa-list@matronics.comSubject : Europa -List: Bubble doorsDate: Sun=2C 4 Jan 2009 00:11:46 +0100 Dear All=2C last November I bought D-EJWD=2C a Europa Classic Mono with Rotax 912 UL. Since the headroom is definately not sufficient with cussions installed jus t thick enough for a comfortable seating position (for max. 2 hour-flights) - I am looking for those bubble doors I have seen on few UK-pictures on eu ropaowners.org. Where are they from? Did aerodynamics change with installation? Are there a ny other options of getting more headroom easily? Thanks for a hint or two. Regards=2C Frank KusserowEuropa Classic Mono Essen/Germany ____________________________________________________________ Learn about VA loan programs and benefits. Click now. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:03:08 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skymap 111C battery From: "zwakie" I will need to replace the battery in mine as well, but before opening up the device I would like to know what the size of the battery needs to be. Is it AA-size (penlight)? If is indeed is AA, would this one be OK: http://www.conrad.nl - item number 650935 - 89 ? Please advise. Marcel Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 11:33:50 AM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Skymap 111C battery Hi Marcel. I replaced mine recently after asking the forum. It wasn't a difficult job. The battery is a wire ended 3.7 volt Lithium Thynol Chloride AA cell. As recommended, I bought one from RS. The RS part number is 185-5659. Current cost is 4.80. The one you specified looks very similar. Regards, Richard Iddon G-RIXS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Skymap 111C battery I will need to replace the battery in mine as well, but before opening up the device I would like to know what the size of the battery needs to be. Is it AA-size (penlight)? If is indeed is AA, would this one be OK: http://www.conrad.nl - item number 650935 - 89 ? Please advise. Marcel ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:37:04 PM PST US From: "Robert Hatton" Subject: Europa-List: Importing a Europa to the USA I am looking to import my UK based Europa to the USA. I know there will be a "right way" to do this, and wonder if anyone can provide any advice? Any advice and information anyone may have on shipping to the USA; any suggested port to ship to; what has to be done to the aircraft from an FAA perspective to make the aircraft legal in the USA; and anything anyone can think of to help me in this process would be extremely useful. I have not yet contacted the local FAA office yet, I thought I would try and find out as much as possible that I could first. Robert Hatton email: roberthatton1@googlemail.com UK Mobile: +44 79 66 184171 US Mobile: +01 303 906 9395 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 12:55:19 PM PST US From: "David Buckley" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Silicone Radiator Hose Tesy message - I cant remember my usedr name! 2009/1/4 Erich Trombley > erichdtrombley@juno.com> > > Paul, > > I have been using the blue silicone heater hose for several years now > without issue. While I do not have the spring type clamps I found that > slipping heat shrink tubing over the standard worm drive hose clamps works a > treat. Without the shrink tubing you will run the risk of the clamp cutting > into the silicone. Additionally, I used heat shrink tubing over the end of > the silicone hose to minimize any chance of chaffing from the clamp. > Finally, as I concerned about the hose kinking as it came up and over the > top of the engine I wrapped the outside of hose in that location with safety > wire in a loose spiral then covered it with shrink wrap to keep it in place. > > Also, I know of one other builder that used silicone vacuum line with great > success. Both items are available at: > > http://www.paragonperformance.com > > Regards, > > Erich Trombley > N28ET Classic Mono 914 > > ____________________________________________________________ > Click here for free information on nursing degrees, up to $150/hour > > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/PnY6rbu0vDKdYORnAPlOjhWoO5WAOiEiV1nHPreLv1T2gtxsdsBbR/ > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 01:06:20 PM PST US From: "David Buckley" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Non-equity member operating groups in the UK I'ts not really possible. 2009/1/4 Sean O'Reilly > > I am trying to defray the cost of convenient but expensive hangarage at > Redhill by bringing in another user for my Europa. > > Does anyone in the UK have experience of establishing a group for operating > a Europa with non-equity members, such that the new participant would not > need to 'buy into' the aeroplane, but simply pay a monthly charge and/or an > hourly rate? I an assuming that such a thing is permitted under UK Law / > CAA regulation! > > Any experience (including benchmark rates and examples of written > agreements) would be gratefully received. > > Regards > > Sean > Reigate, UK > > ------------------------------ > Read amazing stories to your kids oarget='_new'>Try it Now! > > * > > * > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 01:09:32 PM PST US From: "David Buckley" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Non-equity member operating groups in the UK Sorry, hit send by accident. What I ment to add was that if it is not to be a commercial operation, each pilot needs to hold at least a 5% equity stake in the aircraft- At any rate that was my understanding 3 years ago when I was running a group - things may have changed! Could you not "sell" 5% to each potential pilot and hold an undated transfer agreement made out in your favour? Dave 2009/1/5 David Buckley > I'ts not really possible. > > 2009/1/4 Sean O'Reilly > > >> I am trying to defray the cost of convenient but expensive hangarage at >> Redhill by bringing in another user for my Europa. >> >> Does anyone in the UK have experience of establishing a group for >> operating a Europa with non-equity members, such that the new participant >> would not need to 'buy into' the aeroplane, but simply pay a monthly charge >> and/or an hourly rate? I an assuming that such a thing is permitted under >> UK Law / CAA regulation! >> >> Any experience (including benchmark rates and examples of written >> agreements) would be gratefully received. >> >> Regards >> >> Sean >> Reigate, UK >> >> ------------------------------ >> Read amazing stories to your kids oarget='_new'>Try it Now! >> >> * >> >> * >> >> > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 01:18:24 PM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Re: Europa-List: Importing a Europa to the USA Robert, I'd suggest you contact the Experimental Aircraft Association ( http://eaa.org/ ). I'm sure someone there could provide you the information you need. If you have any difficulty contacting anyone there let me know and I'll see if I can find the right answers. Is there a time schedule for this transfer? Best regards, Bob Borger On Monday, January 05, 2009, at 02:35PM, "Robert Hatton" wrote: >I am looking to import my UK based Europa to the USA. I know there will be a >"right way" to do this, and wonder if anyone can provide any advice? > > > >Any advice and information anyone may have on shipping to the USA; any >suggested port to ship to; what has to be done to the aircraft from an FAA >perspective to make the aircraft legal in the USA; and anything anyone can >think of to help me in this process would be extremely useful. > > > >I have not yet contacted the local FAA office yet, I thought I would try and >find out as much as possible that I could first. > > > >Robert Hatton > >email: roberthatton1@googlemail.com > >UK Mobile: +44 79 66 184171 > >US Mobile: +01 303 906 9395 > > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 02:25:02 PM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Importing a Europa to the USA Robert, Recommend you contact Alan Burrows, he took his Europa to the USA a year or two ago. I think he still watches this list. Regards, Mike From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Hatton Sent: 05 January 2009 20:35 Subject: Europa-List: Importing a Europa to the USA I am looking to import my UK based Europa to the USA. I know there will be a "right way" to do this, and wonder if anyone can provide any advice? Any advice and information anyone may have on shipping to the USA; any suggested port to ship to; what has to be done to the aircraft from an FAA perspective to make the aircraft legal in the USA; and anything anyone can think of to help me in this process would be extremely useful. I have not yet contacted the local FAA office yet, I thought I would try and find out as much as possible that I could first. Robert Hatton email: roberthatton1@googlemail.com UK Mobile: +44 79 66 184171 US Mobile: +01 303 906 9395 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:48:41 PM PST US From: Lance Sandford Subject: Re: Europa-List: Bubble doors Frank Dont know if it works with a Classic, but Ian Rickard developed a mod for the XS to move the stepat the rear of the rudder pedals about 40mm forward to the tufnel blocks, thus increasing the leg room. This would recover any legroom lost in moving the seat bottom forward. Regards Lance Sandford (only 6 2) > > Remi Guerner wrote: >> Frank, >> I suggest you also try to put more cushion on the lower back of the >> seat to get a more reclined position. The upper portion of the seat >> back should be as thin as possible. Moving your bottom forward will >> increase your head clearance. However this will also reduce your leg >> room. >> Regards >> Remi Guerner >> F-PGKL > Frank > If you have long body/short legs this will work well. I cut out the > thigh supports and rebuilt them shaped to fit buttocks. Very > comfortable and only needs thin cushion, (but bean bag is the best, > you can change position and still have even pressure) > Graham > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:59 PM PST US From: "Robert Hatton" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Importing a Europa to the USA Hello Bob, I shall contact the EAA, I need to join them anyway so this will be a good start. Many thanks for your help. All the Best Rob Robert Hatton email: roberthatton1@googlemail.com UK Mobile: +44 79 66 184171 US Mobile: +01 303 906 9395 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Borger Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 9:17 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Importing a Europa to the USA Robert, I'd suggest you contact the Experimental Aircraft Association ( http://eaa.org/ ). I'm sure someone there could provide you the information you need. If you have any difficulty contacting anyone there let me know and I'll see if I can find the right answers. Is there a time schedule for this transfer? Best regards, Bob Borger On Monday, January 05, 2009, at 02:35PM, "Robert Hatton" wrote: >I am looking to import my UK based Europa to the USA. I know there will be a >"right way" to do this, and wonder if anyone can provide any advice? > > > >Any advice and information anyone may have on shipping to the USA; any >suggested port to ship to; what has to be done to the aircraft from an FAA >perspective to make the aircraft legal in the USA; and anything anyone can >think of to help me in this process would be extremely useful. > > > >I have not yet contacted the local FAA office yet, I thought I would try and >find out as much as possible that I could first. > > > >Robert Hatton > >email: roberthatton1@googlemail.com > >UK Mobile: +44 79 66 184171 > >US Mobile: +01 303 906 9395 > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 07:46:59 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Importing a Europa to the USA From: Fred Klein > On Monday, January 05, 2009, at 02:35PM, "Robert Hatton" > wrote: >> I am looking to import my UK based Europa to the USA. I know there >> will be a >> "right way" to do this, and wonder if anyone can provide any advice? Robert, Your fellow Brit, Alan Burrows, made the big move a couple years ago; I'm sure he would be a good resource...not sure of his email and he hasn't been posting lately, but I 'spect others could put you in touch with him. Fred A194 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.