Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:52 AM - Re: mono-bungees (Raimo Toivio)
2. 04:40 AM - Re: mono-bungees (Peter Zutrauen)
3. 05:18 AM - Re: mono-bungees (Bob Borger)
4. 07:31 AM - Re: mono-bungees (Fred Klein)
5. 08:40 AM - Insurance in UK (David Joyce)
6. 10:48 AM - Comm Antenna installation (William McClellan)
7. 11:08 AM - Re: mono-bungees (Graham Singleton)
8. 11:13 AM - A/C paint other than white (Frank Kusserow)
9. 11:31 AM - Re: A/C paint other than white (Terry Seaver (terrys))
10. 11:42 AM - Re: A/C paint other than white (Duncan & Ami McFadyean)
11. 11:49 AM - Re: A/C paint other than white (rampil)
12. 11:54 AM - Re: A/C paint other than white (craig bastin)
13. 12:01 PM - Re: A/C paint other than white (William Daniell)
14. 12:07 PM - Re: A/C paint other than white (Jeff B)
15. 12:09 PM - Re: A/C paint other than white (Jeff B)
16. 12:11 PM - Re: Seat Belt Restraint Points (rampil)
17. 12:26 PM - Re: A/C paint other than white (rampil)
18. 12:29 PM - Re: mono-bungees (Bob Borger)
19. 01:12 PM - Re: Re: A/C paint other than white (Greg Fuchs)
20. 01:12 PM - Re: A/C paint other than white (Jim Brown)
21. 01:42 PM - Re: Comm Antenna installation (josok)
22. 02:19 PM - Re: Comm Antenna installation (Mike Parkin)
23. 03:07 PM - Induction Air (JEFF ROBERTS)
24. 03:22 PM - Re: Induction Air (Jeff B)
25. 03:38 PM - Re: Re: A/C paint other than white (Graham Singleton)
26. 03:53 PM - Re: Induction Air (Peter Timm)
27. 04:39 PM - Re: A/C paint other than white (rampil)
28. 05:11 PM - Re: Re: A/C paint other than white (Fred Klein)
29. 05:32 PM - Re: A/C paint other than white (rampil)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: mono-bungees |
Hi Erich
Why did you changed your bungee?
Was it totally worn-out?
If so, how old it was and how many landings /flight hours about?
I just wanna estimate how far it will be my time to play bungee games.
Thanks, Raimo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Trombley" <ErichDTrombley@juno.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:40 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: mono-bungees
>
> Fred,
>
> Where and when shall we meet to take you up on your offer of a beverage. While
it is certainly easier to replace the bungee with the engine off I was not
willing to go to that length. Instead the bungee can be removed/replaced by simply
supporting the plane by what ever means you find sutaible and removing the
wheel from the LG frame. Also, I remember detaching the damping block and
shock from the swing arm and fixing it up and out of the way with some wire.
Obviously the removal of the old bungee is a no brainer. The installation of
a new bungel is a little trickier. Going from memory...I wrapped packing tape
over the last several inches of the new bungee and extended a tail about 12"
or so. The tail was feed up and over the top of the LG frame and pulled from
under the lower LG frame. The process was repeated until the entire length was
installed. The firewall aids in this regard forcing the tail over the top.
I also remember using a broom stick as an axel and so
> me gym weights (to simulate the weight of the wheel) to adjust the final tension
of the bungee. Hope the above make sense.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Erich Trombley
> N28ET Classic Mono 914
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: mono-bungees |
a "from the peanut gallery" type of question:
Couldn't one use the old bungee to pull the new bungee around? (ie - tie the
new bungee to the old bungee, then cut the old one and pull the new one
through)
Apologies if I'm out of touch on this, as I have not yet read that portion
of the builder manual.
Cheers,
Pete
A239
On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:54 AM, Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
>
> Hi Erich
>
> Why did you changed your bungee?
> Was it totally worn-out?
> If so, how old it was and how many landings /flight hours about?
> I just wanna estimate how far it will be my time to play bungee games.
>
> Thanks, Raimo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Trombley" <ErichDTrombley@juno.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:40 PM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: mono-bungees
>
>
> >
> > Fred,
> >
> > Where and when shall we meet to take you up on your offer of a beverage.
> While it is certainly easier to replace the bungee with the engine off I
> was not willing to go to that length. Instead the bungee can be
> removed/replaced by simply supporting the plane by what ever means you find
> sutaible and removing the wheel from the LG frame. Also, I remember
> detaching the damping block and shock from the swing arm and fixing it up
> and out of the way with some wire. Obviously the removal of the old bungee
> is a no brainer. The installation of a new bungel is a little trickier.
> Going from memory...I wrapped packing tape over the last several inches of
> the new bungee and extended a tail about 12" or so. The tail was feed up
> and over the top of the LG frame and pulled from under the lower LG frame.
> The process was repeated until the entire length was installed. The
> firewall aids in this regard forcing the tail over the top. I also
> remember using a broom stick as an axel and!
> so
> > me gym weights (to simulate the weight of the wheel) to adjust the final
> tension of the bungee. Hope the above make sense.
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Erich Trombley
> > N28ET Classic Mono 914
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org <http://www.europaowners.org/>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: mono-bungees |
Pete,
No apologies necessary!
In order to do that, you'd have to connect the two without any sort of a knot.
I doubt there is any way to get a knot between the LG frame and the firewall.
I could just barely get the plain bungee through.
I can see how one could take the tire off the LG and take apart the LG damper mechanism
and, working inside the tunnel, replace the bungee from behind. But
is that really easier than just pulling the engine and firewall to accomplish
the same task? Is there anyone who has attempted both (or either) and can comment?
Check six,
Bob Borger
On Wednesday, January 21, 2009, at 06:38AM, "Peter Zutrauen" <peterz@zutrasoft.com>
wrote:
>a "from the peanut gallery" type of question:
>
>Couldn't one use the old bungee to pull the new bungee around? (ie - tie the
>new bungee to the old bungee, then cut the old one and pull the new one
>through)
>
>Apologies if I'm out of touch on this, as I have not yet read that portion
>of the builder manual.
>
>Cheers,
>Pete
>A239
>
>
>On Wed, Jan 21, 2009 at 6:54 AM, Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
>
>>
>> Hi Erich
>>
>> Why did you changed your bungee?
>> Was it totally worn-out?
>> If so, how old it was and how many landings /flight hours about?
>> I just wanna estimate how far it will be my time to play bungee games.
>>
>> Thanks, Raimo
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Trombley" <ErichDTrombley@juno.com>
>> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>> Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 9:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: mono-bungees
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Fred,
>> >
>> > Where and when shall we meet to take you up on your offer of a beverage.
>> While it is certainly easier to replace the bungee with the engine off I
>> was not willing to go to that length. Instead the bungee can be
>> removed/replaced by simply supporting the plane by what ever means you find
>> sutaible and removing the wheel from the LG frame. Also, I remember
>> detaching the damping block and shock from the swing arm and fixing it up
>> and out of the way with some wire. Obviously the removal of the old bungee
>> is a no brainer. The installation of a new bungel is a little trickier.
>> Going from memory...I wrapped packing tape over the last several inches of
>> the new bungee and extended a tail about 12" or so. The tail was feed up
>> and over the top of the LG frame and pulled from under the lower LG frame.
>> The process was repeated until the entire length was installed. The
>> firewall aids in this regard forcing the tail over the top. I also
>> remember using a broom stick as an axel and!
>> so
>> > me gym weights (to simulate the weight of the wheel) to adjust the final
>> tension of the bungee. Hope the above make sense.
>> >
>> > Kind regards,
>> >
>> > Erich Trombley
>> > N28ET Classic Mono 914
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org <http://www.europaowners.org/>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: mono-bungees |
On Jan 21, 2009, at 4:38 AM, Peter Zutrauen wrote:
> Couldn't one use the old bungee to pull the new bungee around? (ie -
> tie the new bungee to the old bungee, then cut the old one and pull
> the new one through)
Reasonable question Peter...
I raised this topic after installing the bungees as part of my
(original) build...I found myself four square in front of the LG
frame, flexing my muscles, and trying to imagine how on earth this
could be done w/ an engine in place...Eric explains how he's done
that, and I'm buying him a drink at SnF if we both make it there.
My concern stemmed from my efforts to adjust the final tension,
hopefully to achieve that smooth, easy, one-finger motion during
retraction which other posts have indicated is both possible and
desireable.
When I initially snugged the bungee, getting the 6 loops + the "start"
loop and the "finish" loop as per the diagram in the manual, I found
that I used just about the entire length of bungee. As I progressively
tightened the bungee, I found that I've ended up with about 6 feet of
extra cord, and have yet to achieve the "one-finger" retraction...and
man, those bungees are REALLY tight! Or at least they seem so.
With no other experience, how does this compare w/ that of
others?...jus curious.
Fred
A194
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
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Message 5
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For those of you who are coming up to insurance renewal, I have just had a
quotation from Traffords which is 75 lower than any previous one I have
seen or heard about. Regards, David Joyce G-XSDJ
Message 6
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| Subject: | Comm Antenna installation |
The amount of archived data on antennas is overwhelming and some of it more technical
than I can follow. The volume of this data possibly suggests the amount
of not easily solved problems with antennas. I thought I had come to an installation
solution that would bypass most if not all the potential problems until
I read that some are having trim servo interference problems with the comm
antenna. I had intended to install the Archer "v" configuration antenna in the
fin and a second "s" configuration comm antenna on the fuse side rear of the
baggage compartment. The Archer information says inside the fin is the ideal
place for a glass plane considering it needs to be placed in a vertical plane.
My transponder antenna is to be on the rear fuse bottom side, reasonably far
away from the cockpit.
Has anyone installed an Archer comm antenna in the fin without having to shield
the trim servo and its wiring? I intend to follow Archer's instructions using
proper shielded cable and also staying as far as possible from other vertical
metal objects and mindful of establishing adequate grounding for each component.
As I am trying to bypass the complexities of antenna installation and theory, any
input/help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bill McClellan
164XS
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: mono-bungees |
Fred Klein wrote:
> When I initially snugged the bungee, getting the 6 loops + the "start"
> loop and the "finish" loop as per the diagram in the manual, I found
> that I used just about the entire length of bungee. As I progressively
> tightened the bungee, I found that I've ended up with about 6 feet of
> extra cord, and have yet to achieve the "one-finger" retraction...and
> man, those bungees are REALLY tight! Or at least they seem so.
>
> With no other experience, how does this compare w/ that of
> others?...jus curious.
>
> Fred
> A194
Fred
use ALL the bungee and tie it off where you can reach it with the engine in.
Graham
Message 8
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| Subject: | A/C paint other than white |
Dear Europhobians,
has anyone experience with outside paint other than white? My certified POH
says "must be painted white". I know some other composite aircraft that are
not painted white. Reason is, that I would like to repaint my classic mono
(white now) in yellow after installing few mods. The Katana e.g. has a
colour indicator to show the heat of the structure between the seats. Does
anyone have this kind of warning device installed?
Regards from Germany,
Frank
DEJWD, Classic Mono 912UL
Message 9
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| Subject: | A/C paint other than white |
Hi Frank,
There is the story of a white Europa with a dark blue stripe down the
centerline of the fuselage. On a hot day in Phoenix the heat on the
stripe warped the fuselage sides.
A Europa builder here in California had his painter put a light grey
primer on a control surface and left it in the sun to measure the
temperature. They left it out too long and it was warped by the heat.
The only composites I know of that are not painted white are the carbon
fiber ones, which for some reason are not as sensitive to heat as the
glass fiber ones.
Regards,
Terry Seaver
A135/N135TD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank
Kusserow
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:12 AM
Subject: Europa-List: A/C paint other than white
--> <frank@kusserow-online.com>
Dear Europhobians,
has anyone experience with outside paint other than white? My certified
POH says "must be painted white". I know some other composite aircraft
that are not painted white. Reason is, that I would like to repaint my
classic mono (white now) in yellow after installing few mods. The Katana
e.g. has a colour indicator to show the heat of the structure between
the seats. Does anyone have this kind of warning device installed?
Regards from Germany,
Frank
DEJWD, Classic Mono 912UL
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: A/C paint other than white |
I have an aircraft painted in pearl white, which is sort of off-white.
Temperature measurements on colour swatches prior to using this scheme
showed that the pearl white was 2C warmer than pure white in very clear-air,
noon summer (end of May actually) sunshine (at about 52 deg latitude).
I also have a temperature probe under the roof skin. This has not recorded
any alarming temperatures; certainly all less than 40C in European usage.
Actually, the cockpit gets warmest by means of insolation through the
windows if left parked in the sun.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Kusserow" <frank@kusserow-online.com>
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 7:11 PM
Subject: Europa-List: A/C paint other than white
>
> <frank@kusserow-online.com>
>
> Dear Europhobians,
> has anyone experience with outside paint other than white? My certified
> POH says "must be painted white". I know some other composite aircraft
> that are not painted white. Reason is, that I would like to repaint my
> classic mono (white now) in yellow after installing few mods. The Katana
> e.g. has a colour indicator to show the heat of the structure between the
> seats. Does anyone have this kind of warning device installed?
>
> Regards from Germany,
>
> Frank
> DEJWD, Classic Mono 912UL
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: A/C paint other than white |
Not just carbon fiber, Terry,
Any parts that have been baked in an oven in order to raise the glass
transition temperature will have a higher temperature tolerance and
can therefore tolerate a color other than white.
I don't think the old DA20 series had this treatment of its fuse, but
all modern VLJs, Cirrus, Columbia(Cessna) do, in an oven big enough
for the whole fuse and wings.
The Europa kit is not heat treated. If you paint it dark, it will MELT
(if there is sufficient heat and infrared)!
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226020#226020
Message 12
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| Subject: | A/C paint other than white |
I believe the name BABY BLUE says it all for one europa, its all about temp
really, if the colour you
plan on using doesnt vary in temp too much it should be ok. I too am looking
at yellow, but it is a very
light bright yellow, not quite a pastel colour, the temp of it in full sun
only differs by about 3 degrees C.
Now IMHO if 3 degrees is going to make a difference then its too dam hot to
be flying anyway, and the white
plane next to it will probably start to melt as well. In reference to the
phoenix A/C i would suggest that differential expansion was the issue, with
the dark areas heating and expanding faster than the white ones. I have seen
large sheets of glass shatter after they were tinted with a metalic film and
one portion of the glass
saw a shadow the rest of the sheet didnt see, more expansion on the sun
exposed bits than the shaded bits
and boom there goes a half inch sheet of toughened saftey glass.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Terry Seaver
(terrys)
Sent: Thursday, 22 January 2009 5:29 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: A/C paint other than white
<terrys@cisco.com>
Hi Frank,
There is the story of a white Europa with a dark blue stripe down the
centerline of the fuselage. On a hot day in Phoenix the heat on the
stripe warped the fuselage sides.
A Europa builder here in California had his painter put a light grey
primer on a control surface and left it in the sun to measure the
temperature. They left it out too long and it was warped by the heat.
The only composites I know of that are not painted white are the carbon
fiber ones, which for some reason are not as sensitive to heat as the
glass fiber ones.
Regards,
Terry Seaver
A135/N135TD
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank
Kusserow
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:12 AM
Subject: Europa-List: A/C paint other than white
--> <frank@kusserow-online.com>
Dear Europhobians,
has anyone experience with outside paint other than white? My certified
POH says "must be painted white". I know some other composite aircraft
that are not painted white. Reason is, that I would like to repaint my
classic mono (white now) in yellow after installing few mods. The Katana
e.g. has a colour indicator to show the heat of the structure between
the seats. Does anyone have this kind of warning device installed?
Regards from Germany,
Frank
DEJWD, Classic Mono 912UL
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
2:34 PM
Message 13
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| Subject: | A/C paint other than white |
There is a yellow one here in Colombia which so far has suffered no visible
ill effects
WIll
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Kusserow
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 14:12
Subject: Europa-List: A/C paint other than white
<frank@kusserow-online.com>
Dear Europhobians,
has anyone experience with outside paint other than white? My certified POH
says "must be painted white". I know some other composite aircraft that are
not painted white. Reason is, that I would like to repaint my classic mono
(white now) in yellow after installing few mods. The Katana e.g. has a
colour indicator to show the heat of the structure between the seats. Does
anyone have this kind of warning device installed?
Regards from Germany,
Frank
DEJWD, Classic Mono 912UL
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
07:07
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: A/C paint other than white |
On any given summer day, the temp difference between the white and
darkest of the three blues on Baby Blue's wings is only about 5 degrees
F. The darkest blue is just a little darker than what I'd call pastel.
Temps were measured with a digital, laser thermometer...
Jeff
craig bastin wrote:
>
> I believe the name BABY BLUE says it all for one europa, its all about temp
> really, if the colour you
> plan on using doesnt vary in temp too much it should be ok. I too am looking
> at yellow, but it is a very
> light bright yellow, not quite a pastel colour, the temp of it in full sun
> only differs by about 3 degrees C.
> Now IMHO if 3 degrees is going to make a difference then its too dam hot to
> be flying anyway, and the white
> plane next to it will probably start to melt as well. In reference to the
> phoenix A/C i would suggest that differential expansion was the issue, with
> the dark areas heating and expanding faster than the white ones. I have seen
> large sheets of glass shatter after they were tinted with a metalic film and
> one portion of the glass
> saw a shadow the rest of the sheet didnt see, more expansion on the sun
> exposed bits than the shaded bits
> and boom there goes a half inch sheet of toughened saftey glass.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Terry Seaver
> (terrys)
> Sent: Thursday, 22 January 2009 5:29 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: A/C paint other than white
>
>
> <terrys@cisco.com>
>
> Hi Frank,
>
> There is the story of a white Europa with a dark blue stripe down the
> centerline of the fuselage. On a hot day in Phoenix the heat on the
> stripe warped the fuselage sides.
> A Europa builder here in California had his painter put a light grey
> primer on a control surface and left it in the sun to measure the
> temperature. They left it out too long and it was warped by the heat.
> The only composites I know of that are not painted white are the carbon
> fiber ones, which for some reason are not as sensitive to heat as the
> glass fiber ones.
>
> Regards,
> Terry Seaver
> A135/N135TD
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank
> Kusserow
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:12 AM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: A/C paint other than white
>
> --> <frank@kusserow-online.com>
>
> Dear Europhobians,
> has anyone experience with outside paint other than white? My certified
> POH says "must be painted white". I know some other composite aircraft
> that are not painted white. Reason is, that I would like to repaint my
> classic mono (white now) in yellow after installing few mods. The Katana
> e.g. has a colour indicator to show the heat of the structure between
> the seats. Does anyone have this kind of warning device installed?
>
> Regards from Germany,
>
> Frank
> DEJWD, Classic Mono 912UL
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: A/C paint other than white |
John Hurst gave me my first ride in a yellow mono, at Lakeland, FL. No
problem with heat, and Florida can get hot...
Jeff
William Daniell wrote:
>
> There is a yellow one here in Colombia which so far has suffered no visible
> ill effects
> WIll
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frank Kusserow
> Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 14:12
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: A/C paint other than white
>
> <frank@kusserow-online.com>
>
> Dear Europhobians,
> has anyone experience with outside paint other than white? My certified POH
> says "must be painted white". I know some other composite aircraft that are
> not painted white. Reason is, that I would like to repaint my classic mono
> (white now) in yellow after installing few mods. The Katana e.g. has a
> colour indicator to show the heat of the structure between the seats. Does
> anyone have this kind of warning device installed?
>
> Regards from Germany,
>
> Frank
> DEJWD, Classic Mono 912UL
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> 07:07
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> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Seat Belt Restraint Points |
Hi Bob,
Sorry for the delay in my response about belt attachments.
I followed the guidance of AC21-34 (?, but cited in this group in 2007)
I also showed it to Andy Draper at SnF when he was still with Europa,
and he thought it a reasonable approach. I designed and put it together
under the watchful eyes of Bud and Russell at FC.
Simply, I bonded aluminum attach points to the lateral seam of the
fuselage behind the baggage bulkhead about a foot. The initial bonding
was with Redux and the bracket was perforated with lightening holes
through which floxxed Redux protruded. This was buried under 4 plies
of BID each 18-20 inches square. A steel shackle was professionally
crimped at a marina to 1/4" steel cable to the common shackle for
the shoulder belts. The cables run through small holes in the D bulkhead.
This raises the belt angle to approximately level from the shoulder to
seam attach. I have a professional interest in the biomechanics of
aircraft injuries and have treated several pilots with head injuries
and spinal compression fractures. I feel much better about my
approach than the factory standard. Of course the proof will be in the
pudding after a spike deceleration.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226028#226028
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: A/C paint other than white |
Hey Guys,
Its simple physical chemistry. FRP materials like fiberglass layups
have a property of softening at a specific temperature known as Tg.
Tg is sensitive to the particular temperature exposure history of that
piece of layup. If you heatsoak a part in an oven for a few hours at 175F
then the Tg will become about 175, up from the base Tg of Eglass/
Aeropoxy of about 150 or so (I dont have my ref materials here at work).
Colors other than white absorb more heat, no doubt about it.
If your bird is sitting at Kingman AZ, or Tucson, there is a good chance it
will droop on a summer day on the ramp. If you want to take chances,
well that why we call it experimental! I like safety margins where I can
have them.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226032#226032
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: mono-bungees |
Graham,
Again: "we are two peoples divided by a common language."
And again, I seem to be bit in the nether areas as a result of instructions written
such that multiple interpretations can be made. To quote the Europa Build
Manual --
Chapter 29M: "Bungee cord
To assist the pilot in retracting the landing gear into the centre tunnel a bungee
cord is used. The
bungee cord is looped under an anchor tube attached to the swinging arm and over
the top horizontal
member of the landing gear mounting frame.
Tie one end of the bungee cord to the top horizontal member of the landing gear
mounting frame with
two half hitch knots and, using three plastic cable ties, secure the short end
below the knots to the rest
of the bungee. See figure 6. Thread the cord down under the anchor tube and back
up and over the
upper member of the mounting frame. Repeat this until all the bungee has been used."
RLB commentary, this results in 6 loops around the frame.
Returning to the Europa Build Manual --
Chapter 29M: "Setting bungee tension
With the retraction lever in its down gate tension the bungee, adjusting each strand
so they all have
equal tension, until the landing gear, complete with wheel assembly and with wings
installed, can be
easily retracted and extended. Its important when making these adjustments that
the wings are
rigged so that the weight of the flaps is taken into consideration. In flight the
flaps will not aid
retraction of the landing gear. Final adjustments can be made to ease retraction
or extension as
preferred. The flaps will not help or hinder retraction or extension when in flight.
See figure 7.
To secure the bungee at the required tension tie the remaining end, in the same
manner as the other
end, to the top member of the landing gear mounting frame. Cut or tie off any excess
bungee. "
RLB commentary continues, nowhere in the section is there any instruction to continue
to wrap the bungee as you tighten. It just says to tighten and cut off
the excess.
I'm not flaming you Graham, please don't read this that way. And I'm not saying
that Graham's continued wrapping is incorrect. It may very well be correct.
I'm just pointing out a serious issue with the build manual if his method is
correct.
Unfortunately, this is not the first instance of build instructions which can be
left open to divergent interpretations. And somehow, I seem to end up on the
wrong end of said interpretation most times.
Europa-Aircraft Folks: PLEASE give your build manual a complete top to bottom,
front to back going over. There needs to be considerably more detail in much
of the manual. My nether regions have become much too tender to absorb continued
chewing.
Check six,
Bob Borger
SOMEDAY, not sure just when, I WILL get my thrice completed but still not quite
yet complete beastie into the air.
On Wednesday, January 21, 2009, at 01:07PM, "Graham Singleton" <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
wrote:
>
>Fred Klein wrote:
>> When I initially snugged the bungee, getting the 6 loops + the "start"
>> loop and the "finish" loop as per the diagram in the manual, I found
>> that I used just about the entire length of bungee. As I progressively
>> tightened the bungee, I found that I've ended up with about 6 feet of
>> extra cord, and have yet to achieve the "one-finger" retraction...and
>> man, those bungees are REALLY tight! Or at least they seem so.
>>
>> With no other experience, how does this compare w/ that of
>> others?...jus curious.
>>
>> Fred
>> A194
>Fred
>use ALL the bungee and tie it off where you can reach it with the engine in.
>Graham
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: A/C paint other than white |
The information I have for Aeropoxy shows a glass transition temperature of
198 degrees F with only a room temperature cure (over a period of time). It
goes on to say that slightly better results can even be had by adding high
temp cures. It appears that a high temp cure is not needed for Aeropoxy...
Greg Fuchs A050
Hey Guys,
Its simple physical chemistry. FRP materials like fiberglass layups
have a property of softening at a specific temperature known as Tg.
Tg is sensitive to the particular temperature exposure history of that
piece of layup. If you heatsoak a part in an oven for a few hours at 175F
then the Tg will become about 175, up from the base Tg of Eglass/
Aeropoxy of about 150 or so (I dont have my ref materials here at work).
--------
Ira N224XS
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: A/C paint other than white |
Frank
-
When Europa had a sales center at the Lakeland Airport in Florida USA the f
actory monowheel demonstrator had dark blue paint on the bottom half of the
fuselage. They were testing to see if the dark colors would affect the fib
erglass. Over a short period of time the bottom of the fuselage started get
ting deformed enough that you could see ripples in the bottom of the fusela
ge. This was where the blue paint had been applied. The blue paint was remo
ved and the bottom was painted white...There were no further problems after
the bottom was painted white.
-
Two things to consider, In Florida,-the summer's average daytime temperat
ures are in the high ninety's. But also consider that the asphalt was black
and the ground temperatures on the ramp-were probably in the region of 1
50 degrees or higher.The monowheel fuselage was setting-less than two fee
t off the asphalt for reference.-I just don't remember the actual range o
f tremperatures, as this took place almost 9 years ago.
-
If you live in a moderate temperature area I don't think there would be a p
roblem with different colors of paint. Here in Florida we paint them all wh
ite.
-
Jim Brown
Monowheel XS N398JB
--- On Wed, 1/21/09, Frank Kusserow <frank@kusserow-online.com> wrote:
From: Frank Kusserow <frank@kusserow-online.com>
Subject: Europa-List: A/C paint other than white
<frank@kusserow-online.com>
Dear Europhobians,
has anyone experience with outside paint other than white? My certified POH
says "must be painted white". I know some other composite aircraft
that are not painted white. Reason is, that I would like to repaint my clas
sic
mono (white now) in yellow after installing few mods. The Katana e.g. has a
colour indicator to show the heat of the structure between the seats. Does
anyone have this kind of warning device installed?
Regards from Germany,
Frank
DEJWD, Classic Mono 912UL
=0A=0A=0A
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna installation |
Hi Bill.
Most of this antenna data, including the technical stuff has as sole purpose to
confuse and sell a piece of material worth 5 cents for 150 $.
Fact is, that the antenna should not be very good, otherwise it would not work
good enough over the whole bandwith. Interference (on reception) from on board
equipment is not caused by the antenna, but by interfering equipment or its wiring
Really, the 20 cents piece of copper to be cut and glued as an antenna,
as supplied with the kit works just fine. Actually better then the 175 $ certified
piece of aluninum on the club cessna :-)
There is so much more effect to be gained by spending the extra money on real improvements!
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 22
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| Subject: | Comm Antenna installation |
Could not agree more. The factory copper strip in the sternpost has always
worked brilliantly in G-JULZ. Spend your money on something useful.
Regards,
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of josok
Sent: 21 January 2009 21:39
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Comm Antenna installation
Hi Bill.
Most of this antenna data, including the technical stuff has as sole purpose
to confuse and sell a piece of material worth 5 cents for 150 $.
Fact is, that the antenna should not be very good, otherwise it would not
work good enough over the whole bandwith. Interference (on reception) from
on board equipment is not caused by the antenna, but by interfering
equipment or its wiring Really, the 20 cents piece of copper to be cut and
glued as an antenna, as supplied with the kit works just fine. Actually
better then the 175 $ certified piece of aluninum on the club cessna :-)
There is so much more effect to be gained by spending the extra money on
real improvements!
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 23
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Hi All,
While I have Gold Rush in for the winter annual I'm considering some
cowl changes. Including closing off the upper NACA use for induction
air on the 912-S and using the lower starboard NACA normally used for
the 914 induction. I seem to remember someone else using that for carb
intake and under cowl carb heat. I'm going to use the same air plenum
with the same filter as now but I will fabricate a side intake to
attach to the top of the plenum and a 2 inch scat tube coming up from
the below NACA. My question is this. I already have the inlet plumed
for this 2 inch tube and not a lot of room to increase it to 3 inch. My
concerns is if the 2 inch would be enough for both carbs. Has anyone
else done this with the 912-S and if so what size of tube did you use?
Best Regards,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 175 hours and climbing slowly cause this
winter if frickin could & wet for Tennessee ;o(. Must be al's global
warming!
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Induction Air |
Jeff,
It's square inches, my friend. Get out the old pi r squared and figure
the square inches in the duct cross section. Then compare that to the
square inches of the inlet opening.
Jeff
JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
> Hi All,
> While I have Gold Rush in for the winter annual I'm considering some
> cowl changes. Including closing off the upper NACA use for induction air
> on the 912-S and using the lower starboard NACA normally used for the
> 914 induction. I seem to remember someone else using that for carb
> intake and under cowl carb heat. I'm going to use the same air plenum
> with the same filter as now but I will fabricate a side intake to attach
> to the top of the plenum and a 2 inch scat tube coming up from the below
> NACA. My question is this. I already have the inlet plumed for this 2
> inch tube and not a lot of room to increase it to 3 inch. My concerns is
> if the 2 inch would be enough for both carbs. Has anyone else done this
> with the 912-S and if so what size of tube did you use?
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jeff R.
> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 175 hours and climbing slowly cause this
> winter if frickin could & wet for Tennessee ;o(. Must be al's global
> warming!
> size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
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> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: A/C paint other than white |
rampil wrote:
> -The Europa kit is not heat treated. If you paint it dark, it will MELT
> (if there is sufficient heat and infrared)!
>
> --------
> Ira N224XS
>
Ira
not strictly true, the early ones were only heated to around 50 deg
C.Not enough. Later ones are hotter.
Graham
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Induction Air |
Hi Jeff,
I modified my Classic cowling early on, with a starboard NACA inlet on
the lower cowling, and started out with a 2" scat tube
to the plenum chamber. This turned out to be too small for the 912S, and
it became necessary to enlarge the inlet to 3".
It enabled me ,however, with a home-made 3" to 2" Y , to also supply air
to 2 ball vents in the cockpit, as well as making the engine happy.
Peter Timm
# ll0, Classic mono, 912S, 380 hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: JEFF ROBERTS
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 3:04 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Induction Air
Hi All,
While I have Gold Rush in for the winter annual I'm considering some
cowl changes. Including closing off the upper NACA use for induction air
on the 912-S and using the lower starboard NACA normally used for the
914 induction. I seem to remember someone else using that for carb
intake and under cowl carb heat. I'm going to use the same air plenum
with the same filter as now but I will fabricate a side intake to attach
to the top of the plenum and a 2 inch scat tube coming up from the below
NACA. My question is this. I already have the inlet plumed for this 2
inch tube and not a lot of room to increase it to 3 inch. My concerns is
if the 2 inch would be enough for both carbs. Has anyone else done this
with the 912-S and if so what size of tube did you use?
Best Regards,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 175 hours and climbing slowly cause this
winter if frickin could & wet for Tennessee ;o(. Must be al's global
warming!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
1/21/2009 7:07 AM
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: A/C paint other than white |
OK, if we want to get picky, lets recall first that the major body parts
are molded/vacuumed FRP, not Aeropoxy/Fiberglass components.
So while the Tg for Aeropoxy is indeed just over 190F, it is not the
critical, softening component of an XS wing. I don't recall anyone
ever specifying the Tg for the molded components, but I specifically
remember Andy, Russell, and Bob actively promoting only white finishes.
I remember when "YellowBird" came back from the paint shop and we
were all agast and predicting problems with it for Florida flying.
Second, it is not the direct sunlight on the upper surfaces which
are most vulnerable. Try instead measuring the temperature on the
undersurface of the wing when that wing is parked over hot asphalt
tarmac and radiating long infrared like a convection oven! Say like
the ramp where I did my 40 hours of test flight at Zepherhills, Florida,
where I did many hours shirtless in the cabin in August in temps
exceeding 90F in flight and much hotter on the ground.
The droops I've seen come from below, not above.
As I said above, in the US, we have "experimental" aircraft and we can
do what we want basically. On the other hand, I think it reasonable
that new builders be exposed to industry standard conventional wisdom,
based on experience and bad outcomes, and not just on an anecdote
or two.
There once was a bright red Lancair..........
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226089#226089
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: A/C paint other than white |
On Jan 21, 2009, at 4:37 PM, rampil wrote:
> There once was a bright red Lancair..........
...at least one...I've seen a beauty at the Arlington, WA airshow,
still flying as far as I know ...my understanding is that the pre-preg
materials in the Lancair should not be equated w/ those used in the
VariEases' Quickies, and Europae, but I don't have any technical data
at hand to confirm that understanding.
Fred
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: A/C paint other than white |
Hi Fred,
That was the "second" red one, after the first melted!
Prepreg material is no different in temps of having a Tg,
Lancair kits these days are baked.
Another interesting point to consider is that the physical droop is only
one aspect of approaching Tg. You might consider the situation at
Oshkosh for the lucky few parked on an asphalt ramp or taxiway at the
end of July during the airshow. Departing with a high g climbing
turn as people are want to do, and FRP wings softened by heat
could lead to interesting consequences.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226095#226095
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