Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:26 AM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_Grand_Rapids_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?EIS-2004_Question? (Carl Pattinson)
2. 02:27 AM - GRT EIS problems (rick)
3. 02:38 AM - Rotax Flydat (Keith Hickling)
4. 03:05 AM - Re: Rotax Flydat (David Joyce)
5. 03:29 AM - [off-topic] wilma carson - funeral arrangements (Rowland & Wilma Carson)
6. 04:25 AM - Re: Rotax Flydat (Trevpond@aol.com)
7. 05:09 AM - AAE Antennas (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
8. 05:21 AM - Flakey OP readings on GRT (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
9. 05:47 AM - Re: A/C paint other than white (rampil)
10. 07:57 AM - Re: Re: A/C paint other than white (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
11. 08:11 AM - Re: Redux anyone? (William McClellan)
12. 08:39 AM - Re: Re: A/C paint other than white (Karl Heindl)
13. 11:18 AM - Re: AAE Antennas (Fred Klein)
14. 11:58 AM - Re: Rotax Flydat (Bill Sisley)
15. 12:07 PM - Re: AAE Antennas (Paul McAllister)
16. 12:20 PM - VFR on top (Fred Klein)
17. 12:42 PM - Re: AAE Antennas (William McClellan)
18. 01:57 PM - Re: Re: A/C paint other than white (Paul McAllister)
19. 02:20 PM - Re: AAE Antennas (Paul McAllister)
20. 03:04 PM - Re: VFR on top (Pete Lawless)
21. 03:57 PM - Re: Rotax Flydat (Keith Hickling)
22. 05:03 PM - Re: VFR on top (Fred Klein)
23. 05:48 PM - Re: VFR on top (Graham Singleton)
24. 07:17 PM - Exhaust Question (JEFF ROBERTS)
Message 1
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| Subject: | =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_Grand_Rapids_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?EIS-2004_Question? |
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It is almost certainly a faulty oil pressure sender.
We had the same problem which affected a number of the other readings. We
have one of the older Grand Rapids units but the circuitry is likely to be
similar.
Once we changed the oil pressure sender the problem went away.
Its also worth checking the connection to the temperature sender as this can
work its way loose and vibrate. Best soultion is to solder the sender wire
to the brass connector on top of the sensor - make sure the wires are well
supported or the solder joint will eventually break - a coating of silicone
bath sealant will fix this. If you need to disconnect the sender in future
just leave the solder joint and cut the wire 3 inches upstream and make a
repair to reconnect (or use a bullet connector).
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Tuck" <MJKTuck@cs.com>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 3:52 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Grand Rapids EIS-2004 Question
>
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> I have had my Grand Rapids EIS (Model 4000) installed for a year now and
> it really performs well - ah, until recently. While I was taking a cursory
> look during one flight I noticed my oil pressure was down in the 20 psi
> range and fluctuating. Then it went back up to the normal 40 psi or so.
> Then down it went again. Meanwhile the other indications were fluctuating,
> EGTs were varying 10-20 degrees up and down, the oil temperature was
> increasing and decreasing up and down in line with the oil pressure
> fluctuations. Then the warning lamp triggered and the error appeared to be
> low voltage at 6 volts, then 3 then back up to around a more normal 13-14
> volts. As I continued I would see indications from normal to warnings of
> low oil pressure, high oil temperature, low voltage, etc. then back to
> normal. Occasionally the indications were as if the unit had shut off then
> immediately restarted taking me back to the default display page. I
> decided the unit had probably developed a fault so I continued back to
> base - a long 10 minutes away.
>
> I called Grand Rapids support and they doubted the unit was at fault but
> more likely that a sender was on the fritz. What surprised me is that
> according to them, one dodgy sender affects all the readings and you have
> to basically disconnect each sender until the problem disappears. Any one
> else had any problems like this?
>
> I have to say, I would rather have a system which has independent displays
> such that one sender does not affect the others, any suggestions?
>
> Over winter I have pulled the panel and checked all the wiring which
> appears normal, no shorts, all the spare wires on the EIS have been capped
> off with heatshrink, and I flew it again today with the same sporadic
> indications occurring in the first 5-10 minutes and continuing throughout
> most - but not all, the flight. I guess I will try to track down the dodgy
> sender.
>
> Thoughts anyone?
>
> Regards,
> Martin Tuck
> Europa N152MT
> Wichita, Kansas
>
>
> _______________________________________
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| Subject: | GRT EIS problems |
Hi Guys
I've just had similar problems. Fluctuating oil pressure, low reading EGT
and low voltage indication. My CHT and voltage fluctuations only occurred
above 20 or 25 degrees C CHT!
Jerry Davies suggested multiple problems and he was right. The oil pressure
switch was faulty (They often wear out internally at 200 odd hours or so if
left in the Rotax position. However they are five minutes to replace) and I
had one wire in my port CTH sender corroded. This was at the junction of the
wire and the sender.
Replacing the Oil Pressure switch sorted the pressure fluctuation but didn't
affect the other two problems.
What happens with the CHT is that where the two dissimilar wires are twisted
together at the sender one, made of non coated steel wire, sometimes
corrodes and the other doesn't sending back dodgy voltage indications to the
EIS. Cutting the wires back 40mm and reconnecting them to the sender solved
both the EGT and the voltage errors.
Both Gerry Davies at Lyndhurst, the UK agent, and Sandy at GRT couldn't have
been more helpful.
Hope this helps.
Rick
G-RIKS
912S XS Tri 500 hours.
Checked by AVG.
Message 3
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On firing the starter motor for the first time to check the oil pressure
after priming the oil system, my Rotax Flydat screen went blank, then
after turning off the starter motor it cycled through the initial
start-up screens twice before returning to the normal display. This
happened repeatedly on running the starter motor.
Can someone with a flydat tell me if this is normal? And if not normal
does it risk damaging the unit if it is caused by sudden voltage
changes? Should it be switched off when starting the engine?
Thanks,
Keith Hickling,
New Zealand.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Flydat |
Keith, It always does that which is a pain and one of the failures of the
design. Mine however has survived 7 yrs of starting without switching it
off.
Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Keith Hickling" <keithhickling@clear.net.nz>
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 10:34 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Rotax Flydat
On firing the starter motor for the first time to check the oil pressure
after priming the oil system, my Rotax Flydat screen went blank, then after
turning off the starter motor it cycled through the initial start-up screens
twice before returning to the normal display. This happened repeatedly on
running the starter motor.
Can someone with a flydat tell me if this is normal? And if not normal does
it risk damaging the unit if it is caused by sudden voltage changes? Should
it be switched off when starting the engine?
Thanks,
Keith Hickling,
New Zealand.
Message 5
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| Subject: | [off-topic] wilma carson - funeral arrangements |
Please forgive me for this long off-topic posting. Several Europa
people asked to be informed about Wilma's funeral arrangements, and
the easiest way to make sure I catch them all is to post here.
The funeral of Wilma Carson is planned to take place on 29th January 2009.
A short and mostly silent Meeting for Worship (but including music
chosen by Wilma) will be held at Cheltenham Crematorium at 13:30. We
ask that spoken ministry be reserved for the MfW at 15:30.
Refreshments will be served at the Cheltenham Friends Meeting House
from 14:15 - 15:15.
A Meeting for Worship (to which everyone is welcome) to celebrate
Wilma's life will be held at the Meeting House for about an hour from
15:30.
Local Friends are asked to decorate the Meeting House with flowers.
Others are asked not to send flowers or wreaths, but instead to make
a donation to Womankind Worldwide.
For those travelling some distance and needing to stop overnight, I
have a couple of single beds available, and our neighbour Angela has
kindly offered several beds in her house if required.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
I am alone with myself.
Investigate and know thyself,
and more besides.
This is life which lives on,
a centimeter added to the soul.
Be still and learn.
Wilma McWatters, 1964
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
References:
Cheltenham Cemetery & Crematorium
Bouncers Lane
Cheltenham
Gloucestershire
GL52 5JT
01242 244245
SO972231
http://www.cheltenham.gov.uk (search for crematorium)
Car parking is spread throughout the grounds; you may have to walk
some distance to the Crematorium, so allow time for that.
Cheltenham Friends Meeting House
Warwick Place
Cheltenham
GL52 2NP
SO952226
http://www.cheltenhamquaker.org.uk (click on Meeting House location map)
3 disabled spaces adjacent. On-street parking nearby is restricted.
Public pay-and-display car park in Portland Street. Another option,
particularly if not attending the Crematorium MfW, is the
Park-and-Ride at the Racecourse
<http://www.gloucestershire.gov.uk/cheltenhamparkandride>. Alight
from the D bus in Portland Street outside Multiyork.
Womankind Worldwide
2nd Floor
Development House
56-64 Leonard Street
London
EC2A 4LT
020 7549 0360
http://www.womankind.org.uk/
regards
Rowland
--
| Wilma & Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/
| <rowil@clara.net> ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Flydat |
Hi Keith,
Fly-dats only run if they are receiving 12 volts or better. It is quite
common for them to blank out when you are running the starter because of the
voltage drain from the battery. As soon as the engine is running, it will come
up quickly.
regards
Trev Pond
G-LINN
Message 7
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In a message dated 1/23/2009 3:13:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
europa-list@matronics.com writes:
I have installed all three but prefer the carbon fiber Advanced Aircraft
Electronics (AAE) antenna types because they are "no brainers".
Hey Bud,
I will second that! I have both an AAE Com and an AAE transponder antenna on
N245E and I couldn't be more pleased with them. (and I'm a picky RF engineer
by trade). I've swept the Com antenna alone across the band and the SWR
remains flat at about 1.38 to 1 end to end. I also swept the transponder antenna
at 1090 Mhz and it shows excellent SWR characteristics, too. The AAE folks
were outstanding to deal with. I originally purchased the Com antenna with a 90
degree BNC connector take off. I decided six months after I purchased my
Com antenna that I really needed a straight BNC take off for proper cable
routing. So, I contacted them and they swapped the antenna at no charge and even
paid the return shipping!
My AAE Com is mounted on the aft side of the tail post. I made a 1" square
hole in the center of tail post for the antennas connector/splitter assembly
to pass through the tail post, then attached the elements of the antenna to
the rear of the tail post with silicone after scuffing the tail post a bit to
enhance adhesion. The coax feed routes through the center of the bottom rib of
the vertical fin through a small, grommeted hole and forward into the
fuselage. Both transmission and reception are excellent using this antenna coupled
to a Garmin 250X GPS/Com.
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
N245E - Flying
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
cemailfooterNO62)
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| Subject: | Flakey OP readings on GRT |
In a message dated 1/23/2009 3:13:54 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
europa-list@matronics.com writes:
Any one else had any problems like this?
Hey Martin,
Early on, I had "flicking" with my oil pressure readings on my Jab. Turned
out it was the OP sensor itself. Andy Silvester suggested that I replace the
OP sensor that came on the Jab with a VDO sensor. I did and it cured the
problem.
Hope it helps!
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
N245E - Flying
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
cemailfooterNO62)
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: A/C paint other than white |
Hey Ron,
It was a stock 914 you bought, not a Predator variant right?
I was flying in your neighborhood last week with an OAT of -15C at
8000 msl.
As for top altitudes, I do not recall seeing a published number, but that
should be part of your flight test program. Most people call it quits
at the DA where ROC100fpm. The true top is where Vs = Vy and
ROC is =0, but given that it take infinite time to reach, and the tank
holds less than 3 hours at max power, you will not get there.
In my test flying with a 912s, at 11000 DA, I was still climbing at > 400 fpm,
and I did not push further. Based on the rate of climb decay, I'll
guess the service ceiling for my plane is around 14k DA
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226334#226334
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: A/C paint other than white |
Hi Ira
Thx. for the reply.
As far as altitude
ceiling I was thinking there may be some limit on something that may
perhaps expand and give problems with airframe?? Extra dosage of UV that
paint may not be able to effectively block? Something unique to long wings
that is not happy at very high altitude? For certain the bags of potato
chips in the cockpit will expire before the airframe does from lower
pressure at altitude. Perhaps with 914 that still has the ability to make
some BTUs at altitude compared to a richer running normally aspirated
912S, something under the cowl over temps due to the lesser amount
of air molecules in the same volumetric flow?
I have a stock
914 except for intercooler and ability to lean, I would imagine with long
wings, Airmaster andleaned, FL210 is attainable? If wave assisted
much higher.
Ron Parigoris
Message 11
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| Subject: | RE: Redux anyone? |
Bud, I will take one can.
Thanks,
Bill McCllelan
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: A/C paint other than white |
Ron=2C
John Hurst told me that his cruising altitude on his way to Seattle in the
914 motorglider was 17500=2C to stay below 18 for VFR.
I wonder if he used oxygen.
Karl
int other than whiteFrom: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.usTo: europa-list@matroni
cs.comHi Ira Thx. for the reply.As far as altitude ceiling I was thinking t
here may be some limit on something that may perhaps expand and give proble
ms with airframe?? Extra dosage of UV that paint may not be able to effecti
vely block? Something unique to long wings that is not happy at very high a
ltitude? For certain the bags of potato chips in the cockpit will expire be
fore the airframe does from lower pressure at altitude. Perhaps with 914 th
at still has the ability to make some BTUs at altitude compared to a richer
running normally aspirated 912S=2C something under the cowl over temps du
e to the lesser amount of air molecules in the same volumetric flow?I have
a stock 914 except for intercooler and ability to lean=2C I would imagine w
ith long wings=2C Airmaster and leaned=2C FL210 is attainable? If wave assi
sted much higher.Ron Parigoris
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: AAE Antennas |
On Jan 23, 2009, at 5:06 AM, TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote:
> My AAE Com is mounted on the aft side of the tail post. I made a 1"
> square hole in the center of tail post for the antennas connector/
> splitter assembly to pass through the tail post, then attached the
> elements of the antenna to the rear of the tail post with silicone
> after scuffing the tail post a bit to enhance adhesion. The coax
> feed routes through the center of the bottom rib of the vertical fin
> through a small, grommeted hole and forward into the fuselage.
John,
Thanks for another astute and valuable contribution...geeze...to think
the com antenna can be a simple vertical strip tucked between the
rudder and stern post...what a sweet and simple solution. And I'm
sittin here lookin at the Bob Archer big "E"...all doable and
functional I'm sure...but sweet?...not so much.
When you say,
"The coax feed routes through the center of the bottom rib of the
vertical fin through a small, grommeted hole and forward into the
fuselage"...
....it sounds like the coax traces an "S" curve before it starts its
run forward...am I understanding your installation correctly? I
thought one of the goals w/ antenna coax routing was to eliminate bends.
With your expertise, I hope you can answer a couple of nagging
questions I've had:
- I'm planning on running a tail light/tail strobe at the highest
point on the rudder trailing edge; will these wires (running down the
back side of the stern post) create electronic interference if I were
to adopt your antenna solution?...what about the same if I were to
install the Bob Archer in the fin?...or should I move the BA forward
of the rear bulkhead to where there would be adequate height within
the fuselage shell?
Thanks,
Fred
A194
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Flydat |
Keith,
Mine does the same, a feature of the unit.
Hear on the grapevine you are nearly ready to fly!!!!!!!!
Cheers
Sue & Bill Sisley
Keith Hickling wrote:
> On firing the starter motor for the first time to check the oil
> pressure after priming the oil system, my Rotax Flydat screen went
> blank, then after turning off the starter motor it cycled through the
> initial start-up screens twice before returning to the normal display.
> This happened repeatedly on running the starter motor.
>
> Can someone with a flydat tell me if this is normal? And if not normal
> does it risk damaging the unit if it is caused by sudden voltage
> changes? Should it be switched off when starting the engine?
>
> Thanks,
> Keith Hickling,
> New Zealand.
>
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
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| Subject: | Re: AAE Antennas |
Hi Fred,
I used a Bob Archer in my fin with the strobe on top of my fin. I
haven't had any noise issues with this combination.
Paul
> - I'm planning on running a tail light/tail strobe at the highest point on
> the rudder trailing edge; will these wires (running down the back side of
> the stern post) create electronic interference if I were to adopt your
> antenna solution?...what about the same if I were to install the Bob Archer
> in the fin?...or should I move the BA forward of the rear bulkhead to where
> there would be adequate height within the fuselage shell?
> Thanks,
> Fred
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Vancouver, BC this morning at 6:30 a.m. Sorry, just couldn't resist
sharing.
do not archive
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| Subject: | Re: AAE Antennas |
Paul,
Your Archer antenna is working well.
Back on Feb 12, 2006 you posted:
I have a Bob Archer antenna in the tail of my Europa. My trim control &
Navaids go nuts when I transmit and I haven't ever solved the problem.
How did you solve that problem?
Thanks,
Bill Mcclellan
-----Original Message-----
>From: Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
>Sent: Jan 23, 2009 2:58 PM
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: AAE Antennas
>
>
>Hi Fred,
>
>I used a Bob Archer in my fin with the strobe on top of my fin. I
>haven't had any noise issues with this combination.
>
>Paul
>
>> - I'm planning on running a tail light/tail strobe at the highest point on
>> the rudder trailing edge; will these wires (running down the back side of
>> the stern post) create electronic interference if I were to adopt your
>> antenna solution?...what about the same if I were to install the Bob Archer
>> in the fin?...or should I move the BA forward of the rear bulkhead to where
>> there would be adequate height within the fuselage shell?
>> Thanks,
>> Fred
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: A/C paint other than white |
Hi Ira,
I was wondering if your 14k estimate was based on the engines ceiling
or Vx=Vy. I can offer a couple of data points. I typically fly long
cross county flights at 12k to 16k, depending on winds and what ATC
makes me do. I have taken it to 18k once, but I didn't go higher
because I don't have an intercooler or temperature monitoring on the
carburetor inlets. I will be doing this as one of my many winter
projects.
I can share some anecdotal information which I haven't confirmed. I
did hear that Jimmy Thursby took the demonstrator up to 23k, and there
was a guy out in California (can't remember his name, Dennis ??) that
claimed to cruise in the low 20's. From memory both of these
aircraft have Whirlwind propellers on them which have significantly
better airfoils than the Warp drive blades.
>From a practical point, I find my aircraft doesn't go much faster
after 12k, due to the Warp drive propeller, and after about 14k, I
start using oxygen at faster rate, so unless "wind gods" entice me
higher I don't go there!
Cheers, Paul
> In my test flying with a 912s, at 11000 DA, I was still climbing at > 400 fpm,
and I did not push further. Based on the rate of climb decay, I'll
> guess the service ceiling for my plane is around 14k DA
>
> --------
> Ira N224XS
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: AAE Antennas |
Hi Bill,
I fixed the navaids issue by moving the nav antenna. If I was to do it
over I would put my VOR antenna in the wing so it was away from other
stuff and would not need to be folded around the fuselage to fit. The
downside is that this means one more cable to connect when the wing
comes off and on, and if the antenna should fail for any reason,
getting to it would be difficult.
I improved the intercom by using shielded cable, although once in
great while it will lock up the intercom (micro processor based) with
a stuck mike. This ONLY ever happens when I am talking to a busy
sector with ATC, and never happens when I am flying out of a deserted
grass field strip with no one around.
As far as the trim indicator goes, I never bothered to look into it.
The antenna works well, but I have nothing to compare it to. The
noise issue I was referring to in my last post was induced noise from
the strobe cable being near the antenna. For my installation it
hasn't been a problem. Trying to fit a Bob Archer in the fin of a
Europa is a bit tricky, it sounds like at AAE would be easier. I seen
to recall that I saw similar SWR's over the entire frequency range,
something like 1.4 to 1 being the worst case. I was surprised to see
it so flat over such a broad range, mind you, the SWR meter was a very
inexpensive one off eBay, so its accuracy could be called into
question.
Cheers, Paul
Message 20
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Lovely picture Fred - was that from a Europa?
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein
Sent: 23 January 2009 20:12
Subject: Europa-List: VFR on top
Vancouver, BC this morning at 6:30 a.m. Sorry, just couldn't resist
sharing.
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Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Rotax Flydat |
Thanks for the replies everyone. Good to know it's normal.
Yes Bill, nearly ready to fly ! Haven't run the engine yet, but all else
complete - all the electrical systems seem to work - Amazing
Regards,
Keith Hickling,
New Zealand.
XS ZK MEE
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Sisley
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Flydat
Keith,
Mine does the same, a feature of the unit.
Hear on the grapevine you are nearly ready to fly!!!!!!!!
Cheers
Sue & Bill Sisley
Keith Hickling wrote:
On firing the starter motor for the first time to check the oil
pressure after priming the oil system, my Rotax Flydat screen went
blank, then after turning off the starter motor it cycled through the
initial start-up screens twice before returning to the normal display.
This happened repeatedly on running the starter motor.
Can someone with a flydat tell me if this is normal? And if not
normal does it risk damaging the unit if it is caused by sudden voltage
changes? Should it be switched off when starting the engine?
Thanks,
Keith Hickling,
New Zealand.
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
ics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
ontribution
Message 22
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On Jan 23, 2009, at 2:59 PM, Pete Lawless wrote:
> Lovely picture Fred - was that from a Europa?
Pete...if it had been...if I had taken it from my Europa...you
wouldn't have seen it yet 'cause I'd still be skyhigh and totally
blissed out...Fred
do not archive
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Message 23
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Fred Klein wrote:
> Vancouver, BC this morning at 6:30 a.m. Sorry, just couldn't resist
> sharing.
Beautifu; Fred! thanks for thinking of us :-)
Graham
Message 24
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| Subject: | Exhaust Question |
Exhaust question from a non technical Europa builder flyer. I remember
my flight instructor 15 or 20 years back always said a stupid question
is the one not ask so here it goes...
As I'm doing my annual and looking at this large muffler pushed into a
small place I can't help wondering why it has to be this large. It
would seem something smaller wouldn't have such a heat buildup and
allow cooling air from above to move down thru easier. I understand the
noise requirements across the pond but here in the states has anyone
gone with something smaller? Would it not be good for the 912 to go
with straight pips?
Just curious...
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 170 hours and climbing slowly.
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