Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:08 AM - Re: registration marking (A B Milne)
2. 04:21 AM - Re: AAE Antennas (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
3. 05:18 AM - Re: Re: AAE Antennas (Tim Houlihan)
4. 06:25 AM - Re: Exhaust Question (rampil)
5. 07:49 AM - Re: Exhaust Question (Jeff B)
6. 07:49 AM - Re: Re: Exhaust Question (JEFF ROBERTS)
7. 08:38 AM - Re: Re: Exhaust Question (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
8. 09:04 AM - Re: Exhaust Question (JEFF ROBERTS)
9. 09:04 AM - Service ceiling, XS mono with 912S (John & Paddy Wigney)
10. 09:48 AM - Re: VFR on top (Michel AUVRAY)
11. 10:21 AM - Re: registration marking (mike gamble)
12. 11:57 AM - Elevator Trim Tab slot. (craig bastin)
13. 01:35 PM - Re: Elevator Trim Tab slot. (Fred Klein)
14. 03:34 PM - Re: Re: Exhaust Question (Garry)
15. 04:06 PM - Re: Exhaust Question (ALAN YERLY)
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| Subject: | Re: registration marking |
For registration letters for the British Register there is a CAP
available on the CAA website that gives the font and size required and
colours, slope and location allowed. 14 pages as I remember. Also a
supplier of the adhesive type advertises in the LAA magazine.
Alasdair Milne G-CEYK
----- Original Message -----
From: UVTReith
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:42 PM
Subject: AW: Europa-List: registration marking
Hi Mike,
Please go to Europa Aircraft.
They can provide you with the right size, shape and colour to an
reasonable price.
Best Regards,
Bruno
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von mike
gamble
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Januar 2009 14:54
An: Europa-List@Matronics.Com
Betreff: Europa-List: registration marking
What size and type of registration marking are people using for their
(GB) Europas? Can anyone recommend a source and comment on the
method/ease of attachment? I have a plain white surface right now.
Mike Gamble
G-CFMP
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Subject: | Re: AAE Antennas |
In a message dated 1/24/2009 3:13:23 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
europa-list@matronics.com writes:
>>>> I'm planning on running a tail light/tail strobe at the highest
point on the rudder trailing edge; will these wires (running down the
back side of the stern post) create electronic interference if I were
to adopt your antenna solution?.<<<<
Hey Fred,
The way to make a highly directional antenna out of a dipole is to put a
metallic object parallel and in close proximity to the antennas elements. I
would avoid putting any metallic objects, particularly along the entire length
of
the antenna elements, that are within 2 wave lengths distance from the
antenna. If you do this you will likely change the radiation pattern of the
antenna considerably and you risk having blind spots, along with poor transmit
and
receive characteristics. The two wave length distance is a general rule of
thumb. Whether or not your strobe wiring will interfere also depends on your
radio's noise rejection characteristics. Noise rejection characteristics vary
from radio to radio and manufacturer to manufacturer, but one thing is
certain. Aircraft Com radios are AM and that does not bode well for noise rejection
at all, regardless of who made it. I would try to keep your strobe wiring and
the light itself as far away as possible from antennas and audio wiring and
be sure to ground the strobe shield wire on one end, preferably to the case
of the strobe power supply, such as under one of the mounting bolts so that
the shield wire contacts the case of the strobe power supply.
>>>>..what about the same if I were to
install the Bob Archer in the fin?...or should I move the BA forward
of the rear bulkhead to where there would be adequate height within
the fuselage shell?<<<<<
Consider antenna accessibility if you are thinking of placing it inside the
vertical fin. There might come a time at some point in the future where you
will need to get at it. This isn't likely, but it would be my luck if I were
to place an antenna in an inaccessible area I would have to get to it for some
reason. I would think that would result in major surgery if you install it
inside the fin above the bottom rib. One of the reasons why I put my AAE Com
antenna on the back side of the stern post was for accessibility. For
installation forward of the rear bulkhead, again you have to consider the metallic
objects that are in close proximity, i.e., elevator push/pull tube, elevator
mass balance, etc. One solution might be to install your Com antenna right
behind the "D" panel in the baggage bay bulkhead. You're only radiating about
5-8
watts with the Com, so there isn't much of an RF hazard to consider. The
transponder antenna is one I would want as far away as possible from me, audio
wiring, and other electronics that might be sensitive. Some transponders pulse
as high as 250 watts ERP. 1090 Mhz at that power level is certainly
something to consider.
Hope it helps!
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
N245E - Flying
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
cemailfooterNO62)
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| Subject: | Re: AAE Antennas |
Hi John
Your comments about power output are correct, but you have to include in
your calculations that the AM comms radio transmitts for as long as you
press the PTT wich could be for several tens of seconds whereas the
Transponder replies with a number of very short pulses in the range
of microseconds when replying.
For sure the peak power is up to 250 watts but the mean power is very low.
If you worry about that consider your cell phone working at 900 Mhz or
so, its in your shirt pocket most of the time responding to updates from
the base station every so often, and then you get it out and place it
next to your ear and make continuous transmission's (its true duplex
operation !) for several tens of minutes. And if you are on the fringes
of a cell the power is ramped up to maintain communication.
Worry about more immediate things first.
Regards
Tim Houlihan
G-BZTH
P.S. my microwave experience is some years old so please correct me if I
get it wrong !
TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote:
> You're only radiating about 5-8 watts with the Com, so there isn't
> much of an RF hazard to consider. The transponder antenna is one I
> would want as far away as possible from me, audio wiring, and other
> electronics that might be sensitive. Some transponders pulse as high
> as 250 watts ERP. 1090 Mhz at that power level is certainly something
> to consider.
>
> Hope it helps!
>
> Regards,
>
> John Lawton
> Whitwell, TN (TN89)
> N245E - Flying
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *A Good Credit Score is
> 7201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=DecemailfooterNO62">
> See yours in just 2 easy steps!*
> *
>
>
> *
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Question |
Internal combustion engines are very sensitive to exhaust gas pressure.
In operation, the cylinders put out large pulses of pressure and want to clear
the contents of the exhausting cylinder as quickly and easily as possible.
Quality exhaust systems and mufflers are designed to minimize the
oscillations in back pressure which would interfere with emptying a
cylinder.
See: http://cafefoundation.org/v2/research_reports.php
for some specific aircraft exhaust system information
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226524#226524
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Question |
Jeff,
The new cowl design, I'm working on, will require a new exhaust system.
I'm currently looking at a split system with two collectors for two
pipes, each. I want to incorporate a small baffle in each side to help
with the noise, but haven't gotten that far, yet. Just something to
ponder when you're not flying... :)
Jeff - Baby Blue
JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
> Exhaust question from a non technical Europa builder flyer. I remember
> my flight instructor 15 or 20 years back always said a stupid question
> is the one not ask so here it goes...
> As I'm doing my annual and looking at this large muffler pushed into a
> small place I can't help wondering why it has to be this large. It would
> seem something smaller wouldn't have such a heat buildup and allow
> cooling air from above to move down thru easier. I understand the noise
> requirements across the pond but here in the states has anyone gone with
> something smaller? Would it not be good for the 912 to go with straight
> pips?
> Just curious...
>
>
> Jeff R.
> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 170 hours and climbing slowly.
> size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Question |
Okay I get and understand this. However on some other light planes I've
seen the 912-S with smaller or different looking mufflers. My question
is... Is there another type of smaller muffler that could be an option?
Or could straight pips be tuned in some way for the right amount of
back pressure for this engine? Has anyone heard of this being done for
the rotax?
Always curious.
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 176 hours and climbing slowly.
On Jan 24, 2009, at 8:23 AM, rampil wrote:
>
> Internal combustion engines are very sensitive to exhaust gas pressure.
> In operation, the cylinders put out large pulses of pressure and want
> to clear
> the contents of the exhausting cylinder as quickly and easily as
> possible.
> Quality exhaust systems and mufflers are designed to minimize the
> oscillations in back pressure which would interfere with emptying a
> cylinder.
> See: http://cafefoundation.org/v2/research_reports.php
> for some specific aircraft exhaust system information
>
> --------
> Ira N224XS
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226524#226524
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Question |
Hi Jeff
My friend had a 912 powered pusher seaplane that kept
breaking exhaust parts and threatened to lop off tail boom in the process.
He finally hacked off everything and just left fairly short straight
pipes. I don't think most anything you do that will allow reasonable flow
will make much of a noticeable difference in performance, some but not
tremendous. I am much more concerned with mixture with a modified exhaust,
MAKE SURE YOU ARE PREPARED TO CHECK AND TUNE WHERE YOU ARE NOT RUNNING
LEAN.Too rich is not too nice, but far better than too lean. Taint
towards a little rich at high power settings.
Of course you
could buy914 header pipes and turbo (along with
914airbox,carbs, enrichment solenoid and fuel pressure
regulator (perhaps ask Paul pretty please to sell you if he has)) and set
up a system to give you 100% rated power until the turbo can't keep up.
The turbo acts as a muffler when it is pressurizing, you could fabricate a
simple non restricting exhaust from turbo out, but you would probably be
best to stick with the beautiful 309SS muffler Rotax currently provides.
309SS is OK to wrap with header wrap BTW. Sticking with turbo normalized
mission will greatly simplify compared to the hocus pocus the TCU goes
through on a 914 to make the decision to make 115HP or 80HP. Even if your
mission was to turbo normalize, Iwould incorporate the enrichment
solenoid when the go fast lever is above 80% (could install a simple reed
or mechanical micro switch). Plumbing from turbo downwind is not as
critical as a 912/S, just restrict as little as you can and keep with an
acceptable noise level.
I talked to a friend who has an older
style Rotax exhaust on his 914 Xamango, he said it is susceptible to
breakage. He said if you get a goodbreak ina header pipe f,
the motor will quit. I don't fully understand, but it is worth mentioning
if you are designing an exhaust.
Good luck
Ron
Parigoris
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Question |
Interesting Jeff!! Keep us all posted and if you have any pictures of
your cowl yet send em over direct to me. I've got the clay out and
working on some new intake holes right now.
I'm also going to make a shroud to go over the 912 like the one I saw
on the RV-12 at KOSH. This will allow me with a flap to control CHT's
better. Plus I'm doing Buds heater mod as well. Looks like I'm down for
a while but now is the time with the weather and all.
Regards,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 176 hours and climbing slowly.
On Jan 24, 2009, at 9:48 AM, Jeff B wrote:
>
> Jeff,
>
> The new cowl design, I'm working on, will require a new exhaust
> system. I'm currently looking at a split system with two collectors
> for two pipes, each. I want to incorporate a small baffle in each
> side to help with the noise, but haven't gotten that far, yet. Just
> something to ponder when you're not flying... :)
>
> Jeff - Baby Blue
>
> JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
>> Exhaust question from a non technical Europa builder flyer. I
>> remember my flight instructor 15 or 20 years back always said a
>> stupid question is the one not ask so here it goes...
>> As I'm doing my annual and looking at this large muffler pushed into
>> a small place I can't help wondering why it has to be this large. It
>> would seem something smaller wouldn't have such a heat buildup and
>> allow cooling air from above to move down thru easier. I understand
>> the noise requirements across the pond but here in the states has
>> anyone gone with something smaller? Would it not be good for the 912
>> to go with straight pips?
>> Just curious...
>> Jeff R.
>> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 170 hours and climbing slowly.
>> size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://
>> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
>> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://
>> www.matronics.com/contribution
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
>
>
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| Subject: | Service ceiling, XS mono with 912S |
Hi Ira,
I believe your service ceiling may be a little higher than 14,000 ft.
During my initial test period time I borrowed some oxygen gear and did a
service ceiling check on a Carolina Blue day. I did not take it up to
+100 fpm but when I was at 16,000 ft and I was still going up at > 200
fpm, I thought that was enough and it was getting chilly up there with
no cockpit heat. Details were as follows :-
Estimated take off weight with ballast and full tank = 1312 lbs
Take off altitude = 968 ft MSL, OAT = 12 degC
After 30 min 55 sec, altitude = 16,000 ft MSL, OAT = -10 degC. Density
altitude = 15,617 ft. Rate of climb = 220 fpm.
Cheers, John
N262WF, XS mono, 912S, Whirlwind hydraulic constant speed prop.
(http://www.whirlwindaviation.com/series100.php)
Mooresville, North Carolina
ORIGINAL MESSAGE
Hey Ron,
-----------
As for top altitudes, I do not recall seeing a published number, but that
should be part of your flight test program. Most people call it quits
at the DA where ROC100fpm. The true top is where Vs = Vy and
ROC is =0, but given that it take infinite time to reach, and the tank
holds less than 3 hours at max power, you will not get there.
In my test flying with a 912s, at 11000 DA, I was still climbing at > 400 fpm,
and I did not push further. Based on the rate of climb decay, I'll
guess the service ceiling for my plane is around 14k DA
-------- Ira N224XS
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Fred Klein a crit :
> Vancouver, BC this morning at 6:30 a.m. Sorry, just couldn't resist
> sharing.
>
> do not archive
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
Beautifull pict I love it
--
--|--
--------(*)--------
Michel AUVRAY
mau11@free.fr
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: registration marking |
Bruno & Alisdair, thanks for your input. I'll check it out.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: A B Milne
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 8:56 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: registration marking
For registration letters for the British Register there is a CAP
available on the CAA website that gives the font and size required and
colours, slope and location allowed. 14 pages as I remember. Also a
supplier of the adhesive type advertises in the LAA magazine.
Alasdair Milne G-CEYK
----- Original Message -----
From: UVTReith
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 2:42 PM
Subject: AW: Europa-List: registration marking
Hi Mike,
Please go to Europa Aircraft.
They can provide you with the right size, shape and colour to an
reasonable price.
Best Regards,
Bruno
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von mike
gamble
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 22. Januar 2009 14:54
An: Europa-List@Matronics.Com
Betreff: Europa-List: registration marking
What size and type of registration marking are people using for
their (GB) Europas? Can anyone recommend a source and comment on the
method/ease of attachment? I have a plain white surface right now.
Mike Gamble
G-CFMP
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
Message 12
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| Subject: | Elevator Trim Tab slot. |
I searched the archives for a bit, but other than references to the slot, I
wonder if anyone has devised a way to cover the trim tab slots from the
inside
with some sort of sliding plate. Or is everyone just leaving the slot open
good building
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Elevator Trim Tab slot. |
On Jan 24, 2009, at 12:07 PM, craig bastin wrote:
> I searched the archives for a bit, but other than references to the
> slot, I wonder if anyone has devised a way to cover the trim tab
> slots from the inside
> with some sort of sliding plate.
Hey Craig,
it's been said that "great minds run in the same channel"...on the
other hand,
it's also been said that "fools think alike".
What I've done is make a couple of 2 ply flat layups large enough to
cover the slot throughout the entire control range w/ a hole for the
"T-bar" in the center; the layups are held snug against the inner
surface of the rear lower fuselage w/ small grommet-like tubular
rubber bands (which slip onto the "T-bar")...the kind sold at cattle
ranch supply stores and commonly used for castrating steers...they
came to my attention as my son, who blew off his right hand w/
dynamite a few years back, uses them in conjunction w/ his prosthetic
"hook"....(amen to that whole episode). I've also made some small FG
clips to keep the sides flush inside. Since I have 5" dia. (net) holes
port and stbd to service the Singleton tail wheel mod, I figure I'll
have some access to either futz with it or tear it out if needed. I
intend to pre-paint them prior to install and bonding-on the top
fuselage. Sorry, no pixs at present.
Nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Fred
A194
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Question |
You might try "Vettermans". They make all the custom exhaust systems for RV
planes. Perhaps they've experimented with Rotax engines, but I don't have
any direct knowledge of that. I do have personal experience with them for
my RV, and they're good people to work with.
Garry Stout
914 Trigear, & RV7A
----- Original Message -----
From: "JEFF ROBERTS" <jeff@rmmm.net>
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 10:48 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Exhaust Question
>
> Okay I get and understand this. However on some other light planes I've
> seen the 912-S with smaller or different looking mufflers. My question
> is... Is there another type of smaller muffler that could be an option? Or
> could straight pips be tuned in some way for the right amount of back
> pressure for this engine? Has anyone heard of this being done for the
> rotax?
>
> Always curious.
>
> Jeff R.
> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 176 hours and climbing slowly.
>
>
> On Jan 24, 2009, at 8:23 AM, rampil wrote:
>
>>
>> Internal combustion engines are very sensitive to exhaust gas pressure.
>> In operation, the cylinders put out large pulses of pressure and want to
>> clear
>> the contents of the exhausting cylinder as quickly and easily as
>> possible.
>> Quality exhaust systems and mufflers are designed to minimize the
>> oscillations in back pressure which would interfere with emptying a
>> cylinder.
>> See: http://cafefoundation.org/v2/research_reports.php
>> for some specific aircraft exhaust system information
>>
>> --------
>> Ira N224XS
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Read this topic online here:
>>
>> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=226524#226524
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Question |
Jeff/Jeff,
Keep in mind the muffler is for noise concerns in Europe. In the US we
do not have these limitations as of yet. Check with Rotax on exhaust
backpressure requirements (tuning the exhaust pipe length) and you can
modify away. Each of the new SLSA aircraft have a different exhaust
shape and size. I am tempted to take my bore-scope to Sun N Fun to have
a peek at some different 912 exhausts. Personally, I will keep my 914
stock. I don't have cooling problems on my engine cowl arrangements I
build in the shop. I have done Jabiru's with straight pipes, why not
the Rotax. Jason Parker and I have a 914 doing well without a muffler,
but the turbo gives us the the same backpressure of the stock engine.
A lot of the cowl design concerns on the 912S/914 Rotax powered Europas
are a compromise between maintenance, plumbing and production. Custom
cowl changes create a number of challenges. I am now doing another
Lopresti style cowl for a 914/Airmaster customer who wants a belt driven
hi output alternator. I have a slick through the shaft brush assembly
which allows it all to work. Sorta-kind-maybe-hopefully with numerous
front mods it will cool better than stock. It just takes time, money,
and experimentation.
Keep us posted,
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations
----- Original Message -----
From: JEFF ROBERTS<mailto:jeff@rmmm.net>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Exhaust Question
<jeff@rmmm.net<mailto:jeff@rmmm.net>>
Interesting Jeff!! Keep us all posted and if you have any pictures of
your cowl yet send em over direct to me. I've got the clay out and
working on some new intake holes right now.
I'm also going to make a shroud to go over the 912 like the one I saw
on the RV-12 at KOSH. This will allow me with a flap to control CHT's
better. Plus I'm doing Buds heater mod as well. Looks like I'm down
for
a while but now is the time with the weather and all.
Regards,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 176 hours and climbing slowly.
On Jan 24, 2009, at 9:48 AM, Jeff B wrote:
<topglock@cox.net<mailto:topglock@cox.net>>
>
> Jeff,
>
> The new cowl design, I'm working on, will require a new exhaust
> system. I'm currently looking at a split system with two collectors
> for two pipes, each. I want to incorporate a small baffle in each
> side to help with the noise, but haven't gotten that far, yet. Just
> something to ponder when you're not flying... :)
>
> Jeff - Baby Blue
>
> JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
>> Exhaust question from a non technical Europa builder flyer. I
>> remember my flight instructor 15 or 20 years back always said a
>> stupid question is the one not ask so here it goes...
>> As I'm doing my annual and looking at this large muffler pushed
into
>> a small place I can't help wondering why it has to be this large.
It
>> would seem something smaller wouldn't have such a heat buildup and
>> allow cooling air from above to move down thru easier. I understand
>> the noise requirements across the pond but here in the states has
>> anyone gone with something smaller? Would it not be good for the
912
>> to go with straight pips?
>> Just curious...
>> Jeff R.
>> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 170 hours and climbing slowly.
>> size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier">
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cs.com/contribution">http://>
>>
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