Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:59 AM - Re: Wing Walk Tape (rick)
2. 06:50 AM - Re: Wing Walk Tape (Robert C Harrison)
3. 07:09 AM - Re: Wing Walk Tape (ALAN YERLY)
4. 08:15 AM - Re: Wing Walk Tape (Fred Klein)
5. 09:04 AM - Re: Wing Walk Tape (ALAN YERLY)
6. 10:58 AM - Re: Wing Walk Tape (Graham Singleton)
7. 12:27 PM - Re: Mono Wheel Tyre (jpg12305)
8. 12:43 PM - Re: Wing Walk Tape (ALAN YERLY)
9. 01:07 PM - Re: Wing Walk Tape (John & Paddy Wigney)
10. 01:30 PM - Re: Re: Wing Walk Tape (JEFF ROBERTS)
11. 01:56 PM - Re: Re: Wing Walk Tape (JR Gowing)
12. 02:40 PM - Re: Wing Walk Tape (Graham Singleton)
13. 03:08 PM - Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module (Greg Fuchs)
14. 04:26 PM - Re: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module (ALAN YERLY)
15. 04:27 PM - Re: Tank filler flange (K.Pilcher)
16. 05:02 PM - Paul Prout (Graham Singleton)
17. 11:49 PM - Re: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module (Greg Fuchs)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi Bud
I've always used the bottom on leg swing method but recently (500 hours)
I've noticed two 6" cracks in the paint on the top spar line about 8" out
from the wing fillet. My inspector is slightly worried and says he will talk
to Andy about it. Have you seen much of it?
Cheers
Rick
G-RIKS Tri 500 hours.
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ALAN YERLY
Sent: 01 February 2009 20:23
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape
Wing Walk area tapes are notorious about looking dirty with any other color
but black. A piece of carpet with a rubber non stick mat sewn on the bottom
works well. The non skid mat is a soft dimpled thin rubber material used by
woodworkers for routing pads or sold in stores for use in kitchen sinks.
Jerry Hope has a carpet piece of carpet about 10 inches wide by 20 inches
long for the wing and an 8x12 for a seat protector when stepping in. Just
brush it off when seated and throw in the back.
As for those nasty cracks in the filler due to flexing near the spar and
wing fillet, only the extra layers of glass support can cure that. In the
future, wings will have the rib numbers increased in this area and skin
stiffed to provide for added stiffness for the not so svelte guys like me.
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations.
----- Original Message -----
From: HYPERLINK "mailto:paul.the.aviator@gmail.com"Paul McAllister
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape
"mailto:paul.the.aviator@gmail.com"paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
Hi Karel,
I used to have the original white wing walk tape that came from
Europa, but it got "dirty" looking after a while and no amount of
scrubbing would clean it. Does the clear stuff from ACS hold up any
better ?
> Hi Troy,
> I used the two 16" x 30" clear of ACS. Your feet are not always in flight
> direction when embarking. My shoes are about 12"; when they are transverse
> on the direction 16" of wing walk is not to large.
> Best regards,
> Karel Vranken # 447 nbsp; Features Chat, HYPERLINK
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronnbsp;
via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp;
title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c====
===========
"http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronics.com/Nav
igator?Europa-List
"http://www.matronics.com/contribution"http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Checked by AVG.
00:00
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Hi! Rick.
My classic wing was built with a multi bid layer behind the wing spas
and slightly forward of the spa to take the weight of feet , I guess the
quick build skinned wings will have less numbers of bid lays for "bony
bums"? However the down side is that on a trike with the onset of the
persons age it does get to be a challenge to not tread on the flap and
sometimes with a full compliment of fuel the a/c tends to tip back.
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rick
Sent: 02 February 2009 11:57
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape
Hi Bud
I've always used the bottom on leg swing method but recently (500 hours)
I've noticed two 6" cracks in the paint on the top spar line about 8"
out from the wing fillet. My inspector is slightly worried and says he
will talk to Andy about it. Have you seen much of it?
Cheers
Rick
G-RIKS Tri 500 hours.
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ALAN YERLY
Sent: 01 February 2009 20:23
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape
Wing Walk area tapes are notorious about looking dirty with any other
color but black. A piece of carpet with a rubber non stick mat sewn on
the bottom works well. The non skid mat is a soft dimpled thin rubber
material used by woodworkers for routing pads or sold in stores for use
in kitchen sinks. Jerry Hope has a carpet piece of carpet about 10
inches wide by 20 inches long for the wing and an 8x12 for a seat
protector when stepping in. Just brush it off when seated and throw in
the back.
As for those nasty cracks in the filler due to flexing near the spar and
wing fillet, only the extra layers of glass support can cure that. In
the future, wings will have the rib numbers increased in this area and
skin stiffed to provide for added stiffness for the not so svelte guys
like me.
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul McAllister <mailto:paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape
<paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
Hi Karel,
I used to have the original white wing walk tape that came from
Europa, but it got "dirty" looking after a while and no amount of
scrubbing would clean it. Does the clear stuff from ACS hold up any
better ?
> Hi Troy,
> I used the two 16" x 30" clear of ACS. Your feet are not always in
flight
> direction when embarking. My shoes are about 12"; when they are
transverse
> on the direction 16" of wing walk is not to large.
> Best regards,
> Karel Vranken # 447 nbsp; Features Chat,
http://www.matronnbsp; <http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
_p; generous bsp;
title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
===============
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronh
ref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
AVG.
00:00
Checked by AVG.
00:00
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Wing Walk Tape |
Yes, for those of you who enter from the leading edge, the forward D
tube of the wing is foam and glass sandwich only supported by the root
rib and the next rib is nearly 16 inches further outboard. I'm afraid
the flexing of this area means any filler in that area will crack. The
depth of the filler is quite thick here due to the transition from the
wing fillet. That is why I have started to add glass layers over the
filler from the fillet outboard to try to stiffen this area. The inner
structural glass will hold up to our butts sitting here, but the filler
won't. I'm afraid the area needs a couple more ribs to prevent this as
was done on the trailing edge walk area.
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: rick<mailto:rick@amimotormanagement.co.uk>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 6:57 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape
Hi Bud
I've always used the bottom on leg swing method but recently (500
hours) I've noticed two 6" cracks in the paint on the top spar line
about 8" out from the wing fillet. My inspector is slightly worried and
says he will talk to Andy about it. Have you seen much of it?
Cheers
Rick
G-RIKS Tri 500 hours.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ALAN YERLY
Sent: 01 February 2009 20:23
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape
Wing Walk area tapes are notorious about looking dirty with any other
color but black. A piece of carpet with a rubber non stick mat sewn on
the bottom works well. The non skid mat is a soft dimpled thin rubber
material used by woodworkers for routing pads or sold in stores for use
in kitchen sinks. Jerry Hope has a carpet piece of carpet about 10
inches wide by 20 inches long for the wing and an 8x12 for a seat
protector when stepping in. Just brush it off when seated and throw in
the back.
As for those nasty cracks in the filler due to flexing near the spar
and wing fillet, only the extra layers of glass support can cure that.
In the future, wings will have the rib numbers increased in this area
and skin stiffed to provide for added stiffness for the not so svelte
guys like me.
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul McAllister<mailto:paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 1:54 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape
<paul.the.aviator@gmail.com<mailto:paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>>
Hi Karel,
I used to have the original white wing walk tape that came from
Europa, but it got "dirty" looking after a while and no amount of
scrubbing would clean it. Does the clear stuff from ACS hold up any
better ?
> Hi Troy,
> I used the two 16" x 30" clear of ACS. Your feet are not always in
flight
> direction when embarking. My shoes are about 12"; when they are
transverse
> on the direction 16" of wing walk is not to large.
> Best regards,
> Karel Vranken # 447 nbsp; Features Chat,
http://www.matronnbsp; via the Web
title=http://forums.matronics.com/
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com<http://w
ww.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List>
_p; generous bsp;
title=http://www.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
================
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
AVG.
00:00
Checked by AVG.
00:00
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Wing Walk Tape |
On Feb 2, 2009, at 7:02 AM, ALAN YERLY wrote:
> the forward D tube of the wing is foam and glass sandwich only
> supported by the root rib and the next rib is nearly 16 inches
> further outboard. I'm afraid the flexing of this area means any
> filler in that area will crack. The depth of the filler is quite
> thick here due to the transition from the wing fillet. That is why
> I have started to add glass layers over the filler from the fillet
> outboard to try to stiffen this area.
Bud,
After following this thread, I'm tempted to suggest another possible
solution.
I have some 1/8 inch Lastafoam; after sanding off the gelcoat, I could
bond a piece say 6 inches wide and say 10 inches (fore and aft) onto
the top of the D tube abutting the edge of the wing root
fairing...then sanding it down (inboard) level with the thickness of
the fairing and carefully feathering it down to nothing
(outboard)...this would avoid excessive depth of filler...then cover
what's left of the foam w/ some FG, say 2 layers of BID lapping over
the wing root fairing.
Caution, of course, should be observed for any alteration of the
airfoil, but conceptually, one would strive to maintain what results
from the use of filler in this area...merely substituting foam for
filler.
Your reaction?
Fred
PS: I appreciated your post a while back which cautioned against any
attempts to close the trim tab control arm slots in the fuselage,
saving me some time and potential grief...thanks!
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Wing Walk Tape |
Fred,
A foam core would work but filler would be more solid and resist those
high heels.
In my answer to Ron Parigoris on my experiment:
My use has been with standard 7725 Bid, two layers on the bias. That is
the strands run at 45 degrees to the wing root rib.
To stiffen the area, once the fillet is on and filled, then add layers
on top, peel ply, then fill again. You can use flox as the filler but
expand cell will do. Figure it this way. The filler is now another
core material. That makes a very stiff core and will aid in making the
elasticity lower. If you add carbon fiber rather than E glass, it will
make it even more stiffer as the carbon will make the layer nearly
rigid..
I do not know without building a panel if the carbon is more effective.
Flox and carbon would prevent a Stilleto heel from going through the
skin, but at what cost in weight. A layer of carbon then filler then
more carbon would be super hard, very ridged and cost about another $200
in material...
This only need be done for the guy who puts weight ahead of the spar.
Behind the spar is OK for the tail dragger crowd. Just don't put your
foot beyond the spar.
Bud.
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Klein<mailto:fklein@orcasonline.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 11:13 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape
On Feb 2, 2009, at 7:02 AM, ALAN YERLY wrote:
the forward D tube of the wing is foam and glass sandwich only
supported by the root rib and the next rib is nearly 16 inches further
outboard. I'm afraid the flexing of this area means any filler in that
area will crack. The depth of the filler is quite thick here due to the
transition from the wing fillet. That is why I have started to add
glass layers over the filler from the fillet outboard to try to stiffen
this area.
Bud,
After following this thread, I'm tempted to suggest another possible
solution.
I have some 1/8 inch Lastafoam; after sanding off the gelcoat, I could
bond a piece say 6 inches wide and say 10 inches (fore and aft) onto the
top of the D tube abutting the edge of the wing root fairing...then
sanding it down (inboard) level with the thickness of the fairing and
carefully feathering it down to nothing (outboard)...this would avoid
excessive depth of filler...then cover what's left of the foam w/ some
FG, say 2 layers of BID lapping over the wing root fairing.
Caution, of course, should be observed for any alteration of the
airfoil, but conceptually, one would strive to maintain what results
from the use of filler in this area...merely substituting foam for
filler.
Your reaction?
Fred
PS: I appreciated your post a while back which cautioned against any
attempts to close the trim tab control arm slots in the fuselage, saving
me some time and potential grief...thanks!
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner<http://www.mailscanner.info/>, and is
believed to be clean.
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Wing Walk Tape |
ALAN YERLY wrote:
> If you add carbon fiber rather than E glass, it will make it even
> more stiffer as the carbon will make the layer nearly rigid..
>
> I do not know without building a panel if the carbon is more effective.
>
> Bud.
Bud
trouble is the carbon will take all of the load because of it's very
high modulus, that will tend to create a sharp discontinuity in strength
at the edge of the carbon.
Graham
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Mono Wheel Tyre |
I used to have a similar issue with the 8.00x6. I switched to 7.00x6 and it works
fine. I do not notice significant change in ground operations.
Jean-Paul
Europa 332
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228202#228202
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Wing Walk Tape |
Exactly right Graham, but the force I am trying to fix is not a flight
load but just a wing surface plate skin stiffness for my wide butt. If
I were to use carbon fiber, the joint needs to be tapered in to where
the next rib is. That rib will relieve some of the discontinuity of the
carbon/glass interface. The loaded outer skin compression over the rib
should take the discontinuity.
I too believe the best fix is to use E or S glass and epoxy as a
band-aid fix. The real fix is to add ribs and change the glass layup
sequence to add more surface stiffness for those Stilleto heels and
boney butts.
For those following this, anytime that you add carbon fiber to a glass
surface, all the load is transferred to the strongest element i.e. the
glass fiber, and the epoxy is for a better word, a bonding agent. If
you put a layer of carbon on glass, the carbon then will take all the
load until the point where the epoxy bonds surrounding the carbon fail,
then the glass would pick up the load (probably to failure). In the
case we are discussing above, this may result in a complete
de-lamination of that stiff carbon sheet which is only held on by the
filler/foam or whatever between it and the glass skin or worse yet a
buckling of the skin and failure. Glass epoxy structures are
interesting animals in that in the event of an extra layer of carbon is
put over the glass, the difference in stiffness (modulous of elasticity)
will cause a stress riser at the edge of the carbon layer. This can
cause numerous problems. The outer skin of the Europa XS is for shape
and stiffness. It is not a heavy weave like the Classic wing. Under
loading, the upper skin is under compression and as the glass takes up
the load, a sudden junction of very stiff carbon can cause the skin to
wrinkle or even debond under compression. The area over the rib is
transferring some of it's shear load to the rib and is somewhat less
stressed, so in my opinion, this would be an acceptable place to make
the transition. (Look at the wing in loading some time and you can see
every rib at 3 gs as the glass upper surface in compression slightly
bends under the compression load.) In my education on aircraft
structures, it was always drummed into our heads that the common failure
mode in aircraft is a compression failure due to buckling. Glass
structures are designed to take the compression and sheer loads together
through the orientation of the fibers. Most of the strength of a wing
is that shell. The tension loads that are easily carried by the lower
wing skin, through the strands of glass oriented at anywhere from 0-30
degrees, allow some of the linear stress to be taken by the shear load
of the D tube and transferred by contact and ribs to our extremely
overbuilt (thankfully) main spar and of course the upper skin.
As I said and Graham has eluded to: Without testing on the panel, we
will never know for sure. The theoretical solutions for analyzing
glass/epoxy structures is beyond my shops time and money. That is why
my bandaid is bid cloth over the skin tapered to the first rib from the
root. The thicker, now double sandwich will make that hollow leading
edge a little stiffer and the glass over the top of the filler may
preclude those cracks in the filler made by the depression of that skin
on the forward D section.
Just my opinion.
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Graham Singleton<mailto:grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 1:55 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape
<grahamsingleton@btinternet.com<mailto:grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>>
ALAN YERLY wrote:
> If you add carbon fiber rather than E glass, it will make it even
> more stiffer as the carbon will make the layer nearly rigid..
>
> I do not know without building a panel if the carbon is more
effective.
>
> Bud.
Bud
trouble is the carbon will take all of the load because of it's very
high modulus, that will tend to create a sharp discontinuity in
strength
at the edge of the carbon.
Graham
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Wing Walk Tape |
Hi Troy,
You might want to consider an inexpensive material which I used. I
bought a roll of plain white self-adhesive kitchen drawer liner
(hardware store supply). As I remember, I applied it about 10 inches
wide ahead of the flap on each side. It is inexpensive and surprisingly
durable. Mine have been on since Day 1 and are still in good condition
after 7 years.
Noting that frost will destroy lift on a wing, I have never been keen on
the idea of a rough wing walk surface and this is why I chose the smooth
surface. I have never slipped on it in the wet and also, for those
people wanting that extra knot??, it is definitely low drag.
Cheers, John
ORIGINAL MESSAGE
From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape
Hey Fellow Europa Folks,
Hope all are flying or building well. Question: for you that have put
wing walk on, how wide a path is best up the wing? ACS sell some that is
clear and is 16" x 30" and another variety that comes in 6" or 12" wide,
sold by the lineal foot. I was thinking of buying one of the 16" x 30"
and splitting it down the middle to do both wings. I think the clear or
translucent would be preferable to white or black. White would most
likely not be the matching shade to the white on the plane and black
would cook the wing. Thoughts?
Troy Maynor
Message 10
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Wing Walk Tape |
HI Troy,
For what it's worth I've never used anything other than making sure
nobody gets on the wing feet first or with jeans of the old fashion
back pocket rivets. Just sit on and swing legs in has worked and my
wings still look perfect. If you put wing walk on you may be asking for
the wing walk from some unknowing sole.
Just a thought...
Best Regards,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 176 hours and climbing slowly.
On Feb 2, 2009, at 3:05 PM, John & Paddy Wigney wrote:
> <johnwigney@windstream.net>
>
> Hi Troy,
>
> You might want to consider an inexpensive material which I used. I
> bought a roll of plain white self-adhesive kitchen drawer liner
> (hardware store supply). As I remember, I applied it about 10 inches
> wide ahead of the flap on each side. It is inexpensive and
> surprisingly durable. Mine have been on since Day 1 and are still in
> good condition after 7 years.
>
> Noting that frost will destroy lift on a wing, I have never been keen
> on the idea of a rough wing walk surface and this is why I chose the
> smooth surface. I have never slipped on it in the wet and also, for
> those people wanting that extra knot??, it is definitely low drag.
>
> Cheers, John
>
> ORIGINAL MESSAGE
> From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
> Subject: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape
> Hey Fellow Europa Folks,
> Hope all are flying or building well. Question: for you that have put
> wing walk on, how wide a path is best up the wing? ACS sell some that
> is
> clear and is 16" x 30" and another variety that comes in 6" or 12"
> wide,
> sold by the lineal foot. I was thinking of buying one of the 16" x 30"
> and splitting it down the middle to do both wings. I think the clear or
> translucent would be preferable to white or black. White would most
> likely not be the matching shade to the white on the plane and black
> would cook the wing. Thoughts?
> Troy Maynor
>
>
Message 11
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Wing Walk Tape |
Good one Jeff!
JR
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "JEFF ROBERTS" <jeff@rmmm.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:27 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Wing Walk Tape
>
> HI Troy,
> For what it's worth I've never used anything other than making sure
> nobody gets on the wing feet first or with jeans of the old fashion
> back pocket rivets. Just sit on and swing legs in has worked and my
> wings still look perfect. If you put wing walk on you may be asking for
> the wing walk from some unknowing sole.
> Just a thought...
>
> Best Regards,
>
>
> Jeff R.
> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 176 hours and climbing slowly.
>
> On Feb 2, 2009, at 3:05 PM, John & Paddy Wigney wrote:
>
>> <johnwigney@windstream.net>
>>
>> Hi Troy,
>>
>> You might want to consider an inexpensive material which I used. I
>> bought a roll of plain white self-adhesive kitchen drawer liner
>> (hardware store supply). As I remember, I applied it about 10 inches
>> wide ahead of the flap on each side. It is inexpensive and
>> surprisingly durable. Mine have been on since Day 1 and are still in
>> good condition after 7 years.
>>
>> Noting that frost will destroy lift on a wing, I have never been keen
>> on the idea of a rough wing walk surface and this is why I chose the
>> smooth surface. I have never slipped on it in the wet and also, for
>> those people wanting that extra knot??, it is definitely low drag.
>>
>> Cheers, John
>>
>> ORIGINAL MESSAGE
>> From: "Troy Maynor" <wingnut54@charter.net>
>> Subject: Europa-List: Wing Walk Tape
>> Hey Fellow Europa Folks,
>> Hope all are flying or building well. Question: for you that have put
>> wing walk on, how wide a path is best up the wing? ACS sell some that
>> is
>> clear and is 16" x 30" and another variety that comes in 6" or 12"
>> wide,
>> sold by the lineal foot. I was thinking of buying one of the 16" x 30"
>> and splitting it down the middle to do both wings. I think the clear or
>> translucent would be preferable to white or black. White would most
>> likely not be the matching shade to the white on the plane and black
>> would cook the wing. Thoughts?
>> Troy Maynor
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
18:02:00
--
We are a community of 5.9 million users fighting spam.
The Professional version does not have this message
Message 12
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Wing Walk Tape |
ALAN YERLY wrote:
> I too believe the best fix is to use E or S glass and epoxy as a
> band-aid fix. The real fix is to add ribs and change the glass layup
> sequence to add more surface stiffness for those Stilleto heels and
> boney butts.
>
>
> As I said and Graham has eluded to: Without testing on the panel, we
> will never know for sure. The theoretical solutions for analyzing
> glass/epoxy structures is beyond my shops time and money. That is why
> my bandaid is bid cloth over the skin tapered to the first rib from
> the root. The thicker, now double sandwich will make that hollow
> leading edge a little stiffer and the glass over the top of the
> filler may preclude those cracks in the filler made by the depression
> of that skin on the forward D section.
>
> Just my opinion.
>
> Bud
Bud
you described the issue much better than I could, your opinion is valued
Graham
Message 13
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module |
To the Gurus that came earlier:
It seems that the fuel lines exiting the back of the module might come into
contact (or get close) with the flap control tube. Without going through the
hassle of dimensioning the flap system to find out, what do you think is the
best way to handle this?
I could cut the plastic guide-tube at exit, and bend the aluminum fuel
tubing down and to port, or bend both. Will this work? Any other ideas?
BTW, I have a Europa Tri-gear with electric flap positioning.
Thanks for any direction to follow or consider,
Greg Fuchs, A050
Message 14
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module |
Wished you would have asked earlier.
Just wire tie the fuel lines neatly to the floor. The gear and flap is
normally installed and I fit the baggage bay in before I run the lines.
I jig the fuselage well and don't put on the top until all the work in
the rear is done. I hate crawling back in the back. Better to jig the
fuselage properly, ensure it is square. Then put in the flight control
rods, tail tube, pitch bulkhead, gear, flaps, rudder cables, autopilots,
wiring, antennas, fuel system, batteries and other stuff in the back,
then fit the top. Makes all those lines and fittings etc. much easier
to de-conflict. I sheath my rudder cables when I can with 1/4 or 3/16
poly tube (like on the brakes) to guide them through the saddle area to
make sure the fuel lines, wires, etc. don't interfere.
Keep it light and simple, PVC can be heavy if you use it a lot. Those
who put the top on before all the junk is in, have bruises and another
200 hours of work.
Just a thought.
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Fuchs <mailto:gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 6:04 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module
To the Gurus that came earlier:
It seems that the fuel lines exiting the back of the module might come
into
contact (or get close) with the flap control tube. Without going
through the
hassle of dimensioning the flap system to find out, what do you think
is the
best way to handle this?
I could cut the plastic guide-tube at exit, and bend the aluminum fuel
tubing down and to port, or bend both. Will this work? Any other
ideas?
BTW, I have a Europa Tri-gear with electric flap positioning.
Thanks for any direction to follow or consider,
Greg Fuchs, A050
Message 15
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Tank filler flange |
Hi Dave
If you get one do not over bond it or it will deform the
the outer skin, ( as i did to G-OKEV) Speak to Andy Draper before you
you fit it.
Regards
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: David Steade
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2009 10:28 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Tank filler flange
Hi
I'm building a Tri-gear XS from a kit dating back to 2001. I have the
filler cap but seem to be short of the filler flange that bonds into the
fuselage. Does anyone in the UK have one for sale?
Regards
David Steade
Message 16
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
I have some sad news to pass on to the Group, or should I say Europa
family. Many of you will have known Paul Prout, Kim's father, who was
very much a guiding light when Kim started to build first a Long EZ,
then his outstanding Europa Classic. Paul passed away peacefully in his
sleep last night, aged 92
I first met Paul during the early Europa days when he and Kim visited
Yorkshire to buy an early Classic kit. We were all impressed with his
understanding of the dynamics and engineering of small aircraft. Paul
worked in aviation most of his life, eventually at Lockheed Skunk Works.
He was always generous with his friendship. I was lucky enough to meet
him again in June last year and spent a couple of hours in his company
with Kim. He was certainly quite frail but very happy to chat with me
and reminisce about EZs and Europas, plus a few stories of his Lockheed
days. He loved sharing his knowledge and experience with the Europa
family. I will always remember his smile.
Kim has asked me to pass on his thanks to everyone who knew and
befriended Paul.
Graham
Message 17
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module |
Hi Bud,
Thanks for the response. I used aluminum tubing for the long runs, and high
quality, high pressure (Gates) rubber for the tank outputs to tank switch
valve, and the one short run from the tank switch valve to the 2 pumps. That
is what the thin-walled pvc tubing was for, so that the hose can be easily
rethreaded in 5 years (or whenever), and keep it away from the
tight-clearance (roll and pitch) controls. I have been considering putting
the fuel supply hose on the floor instead, and using the pvc 'conduit' for
electrical purposes, (especially since it is higher than the fuel lines).
For the aluminum tubing anchor points, I cut short pieces of the 3/8"
aluminum tubing, and flared them, to create a base for the araldite/flox
that would hold it to the glass, and drilled holes in the other end, to be
used for a quality tie-wrap(which uses metal in the locking mechanism, and a
short piece of the Gates 3/8" hose used as a rubber standoff. It is a
relatively lightweight solution (compared to some), and seems to work well.
Of course, since I have gone to the trouble to fabricate stand-offs for the
fuel line, I think I will leave the aluminum runs where they are. You are
right, it is too late :-).
Thanks for the detailed notes on the order of procedure. I had planned to
install almost everything before the top went on, too. It does seem like
crawling around the back would be a hateful job. The pitch bulkhead is
installed, already. If there is any twist in the tail (I have made
measurements, but will be re-verifying again), I am hoping that getting
everything true, it will hold that way, after temporarily clecoing the top
on. Once done, I should be able to de-cleco, and do the rest of the work.
Upon re-clecoing, it should be pulled back into proper position (I hope). My
rudder cable will require about another 15 to 20 degrees of change, and I
might use UHDMW (Ultra High Density Molecular Weight?) material, with a
radius of 2.5" minimum, for the cable to rub on (I have heard it is very
slick), or another pulley. This would keep the rudder cable lower in the
module, and free up the space higher up, but I am going to leave it for
later, to find the optimum position based on where the engine cage and any
other possible items will affect the routing. If all this does not work, my
contingency plan is to use similar cable-size sheathed brake cable of the
type used for motorcycles. It can be custom made, and no worries about
anything being rubbed on this way, and the weight is not much more, in my
estimation, especially if it is used just to get through the controls and
the fuel tank. But that probably will not happen. The first solutions will
most likely work just fine.
Questions: When you talk about "jigging" the fuselage, what are you thinking
about? Clecoing on the top fuselage, and getting everything lined up could
be considered a type of jig, or are you thinking of a tail-twister (torquer)
as a jig, to correct for any potential twist in the tail? I am using about 6
old shelf planks, with cutouts that simulate the shape of the bottom of the
fuselage, to support it along the bottom, with 3 castoring wheels, to roll
it around with ease. Maybe this is the type of jig you speak of???
By the way, if anyone (or you too, Bud) could let me know if the aluminum
line and tube look like they might hit the flap tube (my question is still
outstanding), let me know. I am just trying to get a 'feel' for their exit
out the back of the module, and I think I can modify the odds of them being
a problem, by bending or repositioning them now(while I easily can), before
the module gets stuck down. I am feeling too lazy to get out all of the flap
parts, position them, and finding out for myself. It is also made a bit more
difficult, since the hinge line is below the lower fuselage wall. It is a
little hard to judge with the 2D picture, and if that is the case, then I
understand. I will find a way to forge ahead.
Regards, and thanks to all,
Greg
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ALAN YERLY
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 4:23 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module
Wished you would have asked earlier.
Just wire tie the fuel lines neatly to the floor. The gear and flap is
normally installed and I fit the baggage bay in before I run the lines. I
jig the fuselage well and don't put on the top until all the work in the
rear is done. I hate crawling back in the back. Better to jig the fuselage
properly, ensure it is square. Then put in the flight control rods, tail
tube, pitch bulkhead, gear, flaps, rudder cables, autopilots, wiring,
antennas, fuel system, batteries and other stuff in the back, then fit the
top. Makes all those lines and fittings etc. much easier to de-conflict. I
sheath my rudder cables when I can with 1/4 or 3/16 poly tube (like on the
brakes) to guide them through the saddle area to make sure the fuel lines,
wires, etc. don't interfere.
Keep it light and simple, PVC can be heavy if you use it a lot. Those who
put the top on before all the junk is in, have bruises and another 200 hours
of work.
Just a thought.
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations
----- Original Message -----
From: Greg Fuchs <mailto:gregoryf.flyboy@comcast.net>
Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 6:04 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module
To the Gurus that came earlier:
It seems that the fuel lines exiting the back of the module might come into
contact (or get close) with the flap control tube. Without going through the
hassle of dimensioning the flap system to find out, what do you think is the
best way to handle this?
I could cut the plastic guide-tube at exit, and bend the aluminum fuel
tubing down and to port, or bend both. Will this work? Any other ideas?
BTW, I have a Europa Tri-gear with electric flap positioning.
Thanks for any direction to follow or consider,
Greg Fuchs, A050
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|