---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/03/09: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:30 AM - Paul Prout (David Corbett) 2. 03:48 AM - Re: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module (Graham Singleton) 3. 04:21 AM - More testing videos (Robert Borger) 4. 06:44 AM - Re: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module (Jeff B) 5. 06:47 AM - Re: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module (ALAN YERLY) 6. 08:54 AM - Panel lighting (Fred Klein) 7. 04:40 PM - Re: Panel lighting (rampil) 8. 04:42 PM - Re: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module (Greg Fuchs) 9. 04:49 PM - Re: Panel lighting (Greg Fuchs) 10. 06:53 PM - Grand Rapids EIS Problem (Martin Tuck) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:16 AM PST US From: "David Corbett" Subject: Europa-List: Paul Prout Hello, Graham - and Kim if you are watching, It was my great privilege to be flown by Kim in his Classic N111EU from Gillespie airfield, San Diego, to Montgomery, San Diego, in June 2000 when I and a friend were doing an around the USA flight. Although I never met Paul, I do send my sympathy to Kim, who has been such a fantastic supporter of the Europa family for so long. Best wishes, David ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:48:39 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module Greg Fuchs wrote: > > Questions: When you talk about jigging the fuselage, what are you > thinking about? Clecoing on the top fuselage, and getting everything > lined up could be considered a type of jig, or are you thinking of a > tail-twister (torquer) as a jig, to correct for any potential twist in > the tail? I am using about 6 old shelf planks, with cutouts that > simulate the shape of the bottom of the fuselage, to support it along > the bottom, with 3 castoring wheels, to roll it around with ease. > Maybe this is the type of jig you speak of??? > Greg look at Chuck Popenhoe's jig. You will want to turn the fuse on it's side at times. Easy with this one ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:21:09 AM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Europa-List: More testing videos Fellow Europaphiles, I have posted additional test videos on You Tube. We completed two taxi tests and a full-power engine run yesterday. You will find them on You Tube as: Bob-Taxi-1 Bob-Taxi-2 Bob-Engine-Run-1 Bob-Engine-Run-2 Made some additional fixes and adjustments. Pics posted on the build site. Text to be added as time permits. More to do this morning. More pics to be posted later today. Check six, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL (99.999% done) Essentially complete. Running Tests & Final Inspections. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:44:48 AM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module Bud, Pretty much how I plumbed Baby Blue. Nail it to the floor... Jeff - Baby Blue Pushing 500 hrs ALAN YERLY wrote: > Wished you would have asked earlier. > > Just wire tie the fuel lines neatly to the floor. The gear and flap is > normally installed and I fit the baggage bay in before I run the lines. > I jig the fuselage well and don't put on the top until all the work in > the rear is done. I hate crawling back in the back. Better to jig the > fuselage properly, ensure it is square. Then put in the flight control > rods, tail tube, pitch bulkhead, gear, flaps, rudder cables, autopilots, > wiring, antennas, fuel system, batteries and other stuff in the back, > then fit the top. Makes all those lines and fittings etc. much easier > to de-conflict. I sheath my rudder cables when I can with 1/4 or 3/16 > poly tube (like on the brakes) to guide them through the saddle area to > make sure the fuel lines, wires, etc. don't interfere. > > Keep it light and simple, PVC can be heavy if you use it a lot. Those > who put the top on before all the junk is in, have bruises and another > 200 hours of work. > > Just a thought. > > Bud Yerly > Custom Flight Creations > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Greg Fuchs > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Monday, February 02, 2009 6:04 PM > *Subject:* Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module > > > > > To the Gurus that came earlier: > > It seems that the fuel lines exiting the back of the module might > come into > contact (or get close) with the flap control tube. Without going > through the > hassle of dimensioning the flap system to find out, what do you > think is the > best way to handle this? > > I could cut the plastic guide-tube at exit, and bend the aluminum fuel > tubing down and to port, or bend both. Will this work? Any other ideas? > > BTW, I have a Europa Tri-gear with electric flap positioning. > Thanks for any direction to follow or consider, > Greg Fuchs, A050 > > * > > > * > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:11 AM PST US From: "ALAN YERLY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module Greg, The flap tube conflict appears to be just about where your PVC comes out. Don't fear putting wiring on the floor with the other lines. I never use metal fuel lines as it is too much time. OK if you have it. Don't get too carried away about what sleeve material is best for your rudder cables, Nylaflow or Nyloseal sold through A/C Spruce is great. As far as jigging, first, I have a lot of room in my shop for jigging a plane for a couple of weeks. What you described is exactly what can be used. For a Tri-gear jigging the aircraft can be nothing more than a flat table (set the table height at about 20 inches so you can get the gear on) or use one of the on line ideas you have seen before, and secure it to the floor with the fuselage bottom secured to support the center of the module. I have a steel frame but wood will do. Ensure the wing pins are level, and secure the center cockpit section to the table. A simple tail support of ply will keep the tail from sagging. Use a string to make sure the bottom canoe is not sagging. Do your best at installing the rear bulkhead and tail torque tube square and level. I use a 1x4 with a 1.5 inch half moon cut in it to ease one end or both ends of the torque tube dead level if you suspect your canoe is warped, and recheck it is square with the wing bolts. I also mark the floor with the centerline to aid in the install of the gear. Always remember to look ahead to ensure the cross tie bar is clear in the rear when installing the gear. I shim and bond the gear alignment angle to the floor and square the gear and install it. Then rig the wings and install the cross member. (Many tri-gears were put on the gear first, then the wings rigged. Level the aircraft with steel tubes stuck in the end of the axel and secure on blocks bondoed to the floor or if you are careful chock the wheels and use wing jigs to ensure the wings are straight...) Once the gear are good, pull them out if you want and the jig and rig the flaps. Then back to the tail to finish up that and get the top fitted. Fit the top and align the tail to vertical. That needs a plumb bob hung over the tail post sighted down the corner made in the back of the tail post and finish clecoing the top. You could put the plane on its gear now and roll it around, plus make your lower access hole at this time... Take it apart and finish the inside of the canoe. Your careful jig alignment early on will almost guarantee it will stay where it should. Maybe a little stick under the torque tube and a small amount of pressure will be necessary to get it all perfect on final gluing, but it will work. The reason the book calls for the top to be put on is less time is loss in jigging the plane. The top jigs it reasonably straight. But it's a pain in the chest, back, head and elbows. If your space is limited, and you must move the plane so the wife can get the car in for work on Monday, then following the procedure above means resetting your jig. That's time consuming. If your jig is on rollers, mark the floor or make bondo dimples to hold the wheels or some bolt heads that screw down marks on the floor to reset the jig for weekend work. Gotta go to work, Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Fuchs To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 2:46 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module Hi Bud, Thanks for the response. I used aluminum tubing for the long runs, and high quality, high pressure (Gates) rubber for the tank outputs to tank switch valve, and the one short run from the tank switch valve to the 2 pumps. That is what the thin-walled pvc tubing was for, so that the hose can be easily rethreaded in 5 years (or whenever), and keep it away from the tight-clearance (roll and pitch) controls. I have been considering putting the fuel supply hose on the floor instead, and using the pvc 'conduit' for electrical purposes, (especially since it is higher than the fuel lines). For the aluminum tubing anchor points, I cut short pieces of the 3/8" aluminum tubing, and flared them, to create a base for the araldite/flox that would hold it to the glass, and drilled holes in the other end, to be used for a quality tie-wrap(which uses metal in the locking mechanism, and a short piece of the Gates 3/8" hose used as a rubber standoff. It is a relatively lightweight solution (compared to some), and seems to work well. Of course, since I have gone to the trouble to fabricate stand-offs for the fuel line, I think I will leave the aluminum runs where they are. You are right, it is too late J. Thanks for the detailed notes on the order of procedure. I had planned to install almost everything before the top went on, too. It does seem like crawling around the back would be a hateful job. The pitch bulkhead is installed, already. If there is any twist in the tail (I have made measurements, but will be re-verifying again), I am hoping that getting everything true, it will hold that way, after temporarily clecoing the top on. Once done, I should be able to de-cleco, and do the rest of the work. Upon re-clecoing, it should be pulled back into proper position (I hope). My rudder cable will require about another 15 to 20 degrees of change, and I might use UHDMW (Ultra High Density Molecular Weight?) material, with a radius of 2.5" minimum, for the cable to rub on (I have heard it is very slick), or another pulley. This would keep the rudder cable lower in the module, and free up the space higher up, but I am going to leave it for later, to find the optimum position based on where the engine cage and any other possible items will affect the routing. If all this does not work, my contingency plan is to use similar cable-size sheathed brake cable of the type used for motorcycles. It can be custom made, and no worries about anything being rubbed on this way, and the weight is not much more, in my estimation, especially if it is used just to get through the controls and the fuel tank. But that probably will not happen. The first solutions will most likely work just fine. Questions: When you talk about "jigging" the fuselage, what are you thinking about? Clecoing on the top fuselage, and getting everything lined up could be considered a type of jig, or are you thinking of a tail-twister (torquer) as a jig, to correct for any potential twist in the tail? I am using about 6 old shelf planks, with cutouts that simulate the shape of the bottom of the fuselage, to support it along the bottom, with 3 castoring wheels, to roll it around with ease. Maybe this is the type of jig you speak of??? By the way, if anyone (or you too, Bud) could let me know if the aluminum line and tube look like they might hit the flap tube (my question is still outstanding), let me know. I am just trying to get a 'feel' for their exit out the back of the module, and I think I can modify the odds of them being a problem, by bending or repositioning them now(while I easily can), before the module gets stuck down. I am feeling too lazy to get out all of the flap parts, position them, and finding out for myself. It is also made a bit more difficult, since the hinge line is below the lower fuselage wall. It is a little hard to judge with the 2D picture, and if that is the case, then I understand. I will find a way to forge ahead. Regards, and thanks to all, Greg ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ALAN YERLY Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 4:23 PM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module Wished you would have asked earlier. Just wire tie the fuel lines neatly to the floor. The gear and flap is normally installed and I fit the baggage bay in before I run the lines. I jig the fuselage well and don't put on the top until all the work in the rear is done. I hate crawling back in the back. Better to jig the fuselage properly, ensure it is square. Then put in the flight control rods, tail tube, pitch bulkhead, gear, flaps, rudder cables, autopilots, wiring, antennas, fuel system, batteries and other stuff in the back, then fit the top. Makes all those lines and fittings etc. much easier to de-conflict. I sheath my rudder cables when I can with 1/4 or 3/16 poly tube (like on the brakes) to guide them through the saddle area to make sure the fuel lines, wires, etc. don't interfere. Keep it light and simple, PVC can be heavy if you use it a lot. Those who put the top on before all the junk is in, have bruises and another 200 hours of work. Just a thought. Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Fuchs To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 6:04 PM Subject: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module To the Gurus that came earlier: It seems that the fuel lines exiting the back of the module might come into contact (or get close) with the flap control tube. Without going through the hassle of dimensioning the flap system to find out, what do you think is the best way to handle this? I could cut the plastic guide-tube at exit, and bend the aluminum fuel tubing down and to port, or bend both. Will this work? Any other ideas? BTW, I have a Europa Tri-gear with electric flap positioning. Thanks for any direction to follow or consider, Greg Fuchs, A050 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:54:58 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Europa-List: Panel lighting All, I've just added a lip around the instrument panel with the intent to shield those little LED strip-lites-on-a-tape in lieu of lighting individual instruments; these little puppies are available in red and blue...and supposedly, the blue ones are getting all the buzz, though I'm not sure why. I'd assumed I'd use the red ones for maintaining night vision, but am now wondering how red cockpit lighting affects EFIS and GPS screens...thinking perhaps that the red light may compromise the their legibility. Has anyone fitted these LEDs along w/ EFIS and GPS and tested the set up, either on the bench or in flight? Fred A194 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:36 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Panel lighting From: "rampil" Hi Fred, I've been flying with red strip LEDs for about a year and have seen no problems with my Blue Mountain EFIS. Consider also putting a strip along your fuel sight tube, it really helps see the level. ijr -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=228372#228372 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:31 PM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module Bud- OK, I looked at a few pictures, and it does appear to conflict at the area of the pvc, but it appears to do so a certain ways out (rearward), and not at the rear of the module. I should then be able to heat and bend it down out of the way. Failing that, I will cut it at the module exit, and bend the hose in some proper way. The aluminum tube should be fine, but I will bend it down too while it is still accessible (down always appears to be the way to move them, based on responses). I can confirm the time that metal fuel lines take. I just wanted to have something that lasted forever in the lesser accessible parts of the module. After flying the completed Europa for awhile and if ever wanting to build another, I probably would build MUCH faster, and skip the aluminum hassle (or maybe not..knowing me -ARGH!!). Thanks for the notice on tail sag. I will need to keep an eye out for that. Some of your order of procedures I have not gotten to yet, to think about, so will take them to heart. I might still "nail" the hose to the bottom, and use the pvc as electrical conduit. It is very enticing. Also, my cradle should work fine for support through the gear project. With strapping, it should support certain angles (not too large) of tipping. Chuck Popenoe's cradle appears to support the fuselage quite well. If I had my hands on the dimensions of his rig before I built mine, that would have been a good route to go. Thanks to all for your help, I think that my problem is safely answered. Greg _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ALAN YERLY Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 6:41 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module Greg, The flap tube conflict appears to be just about where your PVC comes out. Don't fear putting wiring on the floor with the other lines. I never use metal fuel lines as it is too much time. OK if you have it. Don't get too carried away about what sleeve material is best for your rudder cables, Nylaflow or Nyloseal sold through A/C Spruce is great. As far as jigging, first, I have a lot of room in my shop for jigging a plane for a couple of weeks. What you described is exactly what can be used. For a Tri-gear jigging the aircraft can be nothing more than a flat table (set the table height at about 20 inches so you can get the gear on) or use one of the on line ideas you have seen before, and secure it to the floor with the fuselage bottom secured to support the center of the module. I have a steel frame but wood will do. Ensure the wing pins are level, and secure the center cockpit section to the table. A simple tail support of ply will keep the tail from sagging. Use a string to make sure the bottom canoe is not sagging. Do your best at installing the rear bulkhead and tail torque tube square and level. I use a 1x4 with a 1.5 inch half moon cut in it to ease one end or both ends of the torque tube dead level if you suspect your canoe is warped, and recheck it is square with the wing bolts. I also mark the floor with the centerline to aid in the install of the gear. Always remember to look ahead to ensure the cross tie bar is clear in the rear when installing the gear. I shim and bond the gear alignment angle to the floor and square the gear and install it. Then rig the wings and install the cross member. (Many tri-gears were put on the gear first, then the wings rigged. Level the aircraft with steel tubes stuck in the end of the axel and secure on blocks bondoed to the floor or if you are careful chock the wheels and use wing jigs to ensure the wings are straight...) Once the gear are good, pull them out if you want and the jig and rig the flaps. Then back to the tail to finish up that and get the top fitted. Fit the top and align the tail to vertical. That needs a plumb bob hung over the tail post sighted down the corner made in the back of the tail post and finish clecoing the top. You could put the plane on its gear now and roll it around, plus make your lower access hole at this time... Take it apart and finish the inside of the canoe. Your careful jig alignment early on will almost guarantee it will stay where it should. Maybe a little stick under the torque tube and a small amount of pressure will be necessary to get it all perfect on final gluing, but it will work. The reason the book calls for the top to be put on is less time is loss in jigging the plane. The top jigs it reasonably straight. But it's a pain in the chest, back, head and elbows. If your space is limited, and you must move the plane so the wife can get the car in for work on Monday, then following the procedure above means resetting your jig. That's time consuming. If your jig is on rollers, mark the floor or make bondo dimples to hold the wheels or some bolt heads that screw down marks on the floor to reset the jig for weekend work. Gotta go to work, Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Fuchs Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 2:46 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module Hi Bud, Thanks for the response. I used aluminum tubing for the long runs, and high quality, high pressure (Gates) rubber for the tank outputs to tank switch valve, and the one short run from the tank switch valve to the 2 pumps. That is what the thin-walled pvc tubing was for, so that the hose can be easily rethreaded in 5 years (or whenever), and keep it away from the tight-clearance (roll and pitch) controls. I have been considering putting the fuel supply hose on the floor instead, and using the pvc 'conduit' for electrical purposes, (especially since it is higher than the fuel lines). For the aluminum tubing anchor points, I cut short pieces of the 3/8" aluminum tubing, and flared them, to create a base for the araldite/flox that would hold it to the glass, and drilled holes in the other end, to be used for a quality tie-wrap(which uses metal in the locking mechanism, and a short piece of the Gates 3/8" hose used as a rubber standoff. It is a relatively lightweight solution (compared to some), and seems to work well. Of course, since I have gone to the trouble to fabricate stand-offs for the fuel line, I think I will leave the aluminum runs where they are. You are right, it is too late :-). Thanks for the detailed notes on the order of procedure. I had planned to install almost everything before the top went on, too. It does seem like crawling around the back would be a hateful job. The pitch bulkhead is installed, already. If there is any twist in the tail (I have made measurements, but will be re-verifying again), I am hoping that getting everything true, it will hold that way, after temporarily clecoing the top on. Once done, I should be able to de-cleco, and do the rest of the work. Upon re-clecoing, it should be pulled back into proper position (I hope). My rudder cable will require about another 15 to 20 degrees of change, and I might use UHDMW (Ultra High Density Molecular Weight?) material, with a radius of 2.5" minimum, for the cable to rub on (I have heard it is very slick), or another pulley. This would keep the rudder cable lower in the module, and free up the space higher up, but I am going to leave it for later, to find the optimum position based on where the engine cage and any other possible items will affect the routing. If all this does not work, my contingency plan is to use similar cable-size sheathed brake cable of the type used for motorcycles. It can be custom made, and no worries about anything being rubbed on this way, and the weight is not much more, in my estimation, especially if it is used just to get through the controls and the fuel tank. But that probably will not happen. The first solutions will most likely work just fine. Questions: When you talk about "jigging" the fuselage, what are you thinking about? Clecoing on the top fuselage, and getting everything lined up could be considered a type of jig, or are you thinking of a tail-twister (torquer) as a jig, to correct for any potential twist in the tail? I am using about 6 old shelf planks, with cutouts that simulate the shape of the bottom of the fuselage, to support it along the bottom, with 3 castoring wheels, to roll it around with ease. Maybe this is the type of jig you speak of??? By the way, if anyone (or you too, Bud) could let me know if the aluminum line and tube look like they might hit the flap tube (my question is still outstanding), let me know. I am just trying to get a 'feel' for their exit out the back of the module, and I think I can modify the odds of them being a problem, by bending or repositioning them now(while I easily can), before the module gets stuck down. I am feeling too lazy to get out all of the flap parts, position them, and finding out for myself. It is also made a bit more difficult, since the hinge line is below the lower fuselage wall. It is a little hard to judge with the 2D picture, and if that is the case, then I understand. I will find a way to forge ahead. Regards, and thanks to all, Greg _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ALAN YERLY Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 4:23 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module Wished you would have asked earlier. Just wire tie the fuel lines neatly to the floor. The gear and flap is normally installed and I fit the baggage bay in before I run the lines. I jig the fuselage well and don't put on the top until all the work in the rear is done. I hate crawling back in the back. Better to jig the fuselage properly, ensure it is square. Then put in the flight control rods, tail tube, pitch bulkhead, gear, flaps, rudder cables, autopilots, wiring, antennas, fuel system, batteries and other stuff in the back, then fit the top. Makes all those lines and fittings etc. much easier to de-conflict. I sheath my rudder cables when I can with 1/4 or 3/16 poly tube (like on the brakes) to guide them through the saddle area to make sure the fuel lines, wires, etc. don't interfere. Keep it light and simple, PVC can be heavy if you use it a lot. Those who put the top on before all the junk is in, have bruises and another 200 hours of work. Just a thought. Bud Yerly Custom Flight Creations ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Fuchs Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 6:04 PM Subject: Europa-List: Fuel line position exiting the cockpit module To the Gurus that came earlier: It seems that the fuel lines exiting the back of the module might come into contact (or get close) with the flap control tube. Without going through the hassle of dimensioning the flap system to find out, what do you think is the best way to handle this? I could cut the plastic guide-tube at exit, and bend the aluminum fuel tubing down and to port, or bend both. Will this work? Any other ideas? BTW, I have a Europa Tri-gear with electric flap positioning. Thanks for any direction to follow or consider, Greg Fuchs, A050 http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.matronics.com http://www.matronics.com/contribution href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:40 PM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Panel lighting Hi Fred, I am not speaking from experience, however the EFIS and GPS are light generators, and don't depend on white reflected light in order to see their colors properly. They generate their own. My guess is the cockpit lighting will not affect the EFIS and GPS screens in any way.....there could be a physiological affect on the eyes, if the red cockpit lighting sensitizes the eyes to colors differently....but I would think it would be negligible. My $0.01, Greg -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 8:53 AM Subject: Europa-List: Panel lighting All, I've just added a lip around the instrument panel with the intent to shield those little LED strip-lites-on-a-tape in lieu of lighting individual instruments; these little puppies are available in red and blue...and supposedly, the blue ones are getting all the buzz, though I'm not sure why. I'd assumed I'd use the red ones for maintaining night vision, but am now wondering how red cockpit lighting affects EFIS and GPS screens...thinking perhaps that the red light may compromise the their legibility. Has anyone fitted these LEDs along w/ EFIS and GPS and tested the set up, either on the bench or in flight? Fred A194 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:53:17 PM PST US From: Martin Tuck Subject: Europa-List: Grand Rapids EIS Problem Hi Folks, Thanks to all who offered suggestions for the problems I have been having with my EIS. I decided to disconnect each sender in turn to find out which one appeared to causing the fluctuations. Things got progressively worse, the unit seemingly turning off and on again repeatedly. I had to cut my testing short to pick the girls up from their play date and returned the next day. The next day the unit didn't even turn on, so I started the engine anyway and it kicked it back into life. By this time I had disconnected all the senders and the unit was dying fast! The problem was either the unit itself or the simple wiring to the unit from the distribution panel. Out came the panel. I got it home connected a 12V supply and everything turned on as it should. I fiddled with the wires and sure enough the unit was turning on and off again. Ah ha! Upon closer inspection I found that the earth connector and wire was being held together by the heatshrink tube and some flexing indicated a fracture - caused by vibration no doubt - although I am surprised at that. Anyhow, all is soldered up and I'm hoping that this very obvious solution will fix the indication problems - I suspect that it will. That's kind of the problem with digital readouts that they spool up as you power up and obviously down again if getting intermittent power loss. Time will tell, it is supposed to be nice this weekend. Regards, Martin Tuck Europa N152MT Wichita, Kansas ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.