Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:06 AM - Re: New Zealand Trip (Bill and Sue)
2. 04:57 AM - Re: New Zealand Trip (Graham Singleton)
3. 01:32 PM - Re: Cooling Shroud (rampil)
4. 04:05 PM - Re: New Zealand Trip (Mike Gregory)
5. 04:11 PM - Re: Cooling Shroud (ALAN YERLY)
6. 04:36 PM - Re: Cooling Shroud (Paul Boulet)
7. 06:08 PM - gaps for flying surfaces (Fred Klein)
8. 07:34 PM - Re: Cooling Shroud (JEFF ROBERTS)
9. 07:44 PM - Re: gaps for flying surfaces (ALAN YERLY)
10. 10:59 PM - Re: gaps for flying surfaces (Fred Klein)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: New Zealand Trip |
As it happens, Sue and I will be in NZ too 18/2 to 22/3. No schedule yet but
happy to meet up if our paths cross and this turns into a Europa convention!
we are en-route already so best contact is email or Skype Billandsueb
Bill & Sue
trigear 465, slow progress!
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: New Zealand Trip |
Bill and Sue wrote:
>
> As it happens, Sue and I will be in NZ too 18/2 to 22/3. No schedule yet but
happy to meet up if our paths cross and this turns into a Europa convention!
we are en-route already so best contact is email or Skype Billandsueb
>
>
> Bill & Sue
> trigear 465, slow progress!
You might try Tony K, he knows everyone ;-)
Auckland but gets around.
Graham
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Subject: | Re: Cooling Shroud |
Hi Ron,
The other Aeropoxy mix described as amber doesn't help too much except that many
epoxy hardeners are brownish vs polyester agents
are purplish (not definitive to my knowledge).
I had just done a quick google and didn't find anything other than what I previously
mentioned. I do have several composite structural chemistry
texts if someone really needs something looked up.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229840#229840
Message 4
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Subject: | New Zealand Trip |
Jim,
During my trip to New Zealand last month I was delighted to meet Bill Sisley
with his XS Mono. He was kind enough to fly me from Tauranga via a scenic
tour of the Coromandel peninsular to Whitianga, where Peter Austin was
flying off the hours on his WAM 120 diesel-powered Mono. Bill and Peter
were both most generous with their hospitality. If they are typical of the
Europa community in NZ, I am sure you will receive a very warm welcome.
Enjoy your tour!
Mike
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
jimpuglise@comcast.net
Sent: 10 February 2009 15:36
Subject: Europa-List: New Zealand Trip
Do not archive
(It appears that the server stripped out my attached .PDF, so I have
inserted our schedule.)
Lynne and I will be visiting New Zealand from February 21 through March 22.
It would be nice to get together with other builders for the purpose of
lifting a beer or several and comparing notes. I plan to bring a printed
copy of my builder's log and photos. I am building an XS tri-gear with a
Jabiru 3300, and am about 75% done. I have attached our schedule and
contact information. We will try to have Skype up as much as possible, and
should also be checking e-mail daily. We have a car, but the schedule is
quite full, so maybe we can get together in the evening. I have attached
our schedule and contact information. Please pass on your phone numbers and
other contact information if an evening will work out for you.
Jim Puglise - A-283
Jim and Lynne Puglise
Skype contact jim.puglise
jimpuglise@comcast.net
NZ Schedule
Feb. 21, 22 Te Anu
Feb. 23, 24 Dunedin
Feb. 25, 26 Wanaka
Feb. 27, 28 Franz Joseph
March 1, 2 Christchurch
March 3 Kaikoura
March 4, 5 Nelson
March 7, 8 Wellington
March 9, 10 Napier
March 11, 12 Rotorua
March 13, 14 Te Awamutu
March 15, 16 Warkworth
March 17, 18, 19 Russell
March 20, 21, 22 Auckland
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Cooling Shroud |
Jeff,
Good going.
Although mine covers the whole intake manifold and is set up for the
914. Your copy of the Rotax part is tidy and a lot cheaper than that
overpriced vinyl ester piece Rotax sells.
You may find that if you made yours from Aeropoxy that the edges may get
a little brown around the head, but not too bad. Vinyl ester can take a
little more temperature, but I figure if the lunch boxes on top of the
cylinders of a Jabiru at 300F hold up made from Aeropoxy, it will work
on the rotax.
You have a tri gear, and I can't believe with that big hole behind your
engine frame, that you need this, but let me know how it's working.
Bud
Custom Flight Creations.
----- Original Message -----
From: JEFF ROBERTS<mailto:jeff@rmmm.net>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:01 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Cooling Shroud
HI All,
After dealing with the uneven cooling issues under the Europa cowl,
and after looking at how all the new LSA planes are cooling the rotax, I
decided to make a cooling shroud or baffle as rotax calls it. I know
something like this came with some of the Kits but not mine. After
seeing the RV-12 at KOSH I decided to call Lockwood to see what one
would cost. We'll the rotax version was $900 + US dollars. So I got the
clay out and started making one. It turned out quite nice. All the air
from the right intake will be funneled up a 2 inch scat tube to feed the
thing.
After talking with Jeff B. of Baby Blue fame he thought it would be
nice if we could fashion a mold for anyone else wanting one. So before I
start the process I thought I'd test the waters on this list. Here is a
picture of it. Jeff & I thought if we made such a mold that we could
send it around to others wanting to lay up such a shroud. A mold would
be a lot easier than the process I went through to make this so if you
are interested let me know. Jeff gets first crack at it but we could
send it on from there. All interested parties please respond back and
we'll see what we can do. It seems to me that better and more even
cooling will make a happier engine.
Best Regards,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 176 hours and down for the annual, Mod 71
and a lot of others.
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Cooling Shroud |
Hi Bud;
I also have a 914 and with the hot Arizona temps need all the cooling I can
find.- It sounds like Jeff's form will only be for a 912.- Do you have
access to something like it for my 914?- Thanks
Paul Boulet, N914PB
--- On Wed, 2/11/09, ALAN YERLY <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
From: ALAN YERLY <budyerly@msn.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cooling Shroud
Jeff,
Good going.-
-
Although mine covers the whole intake manifold and is set up for the 914.
- Your copy of the Rotax part is tidy and a lot cheaper than that overpri
ced vinyl ester piece Rotax sells.
-
You may find that if you made yours from Aeropoxy that the edges may get a
little brown around the head, but not too bad.- Vinyl ester can take a li
ttle more temperature, but I figure if the lunch boxes on top of the cylind
ers of-a Jabiru at 300F hold up made from Aeropoxy, it will work on the r
otax.
-
You have a tri gear, and I can't believe with that big hole behind your eng
ine frame, that you need this, but let me know how it's working.
-
Bud
Custom Flight Creations.
----- Original Message -----
From: JEFF ROBERTS
Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:01 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Cooling Shroud
HI All,
After dealing with the uneven cooling issues under the Europa cowl, and aft
er looking at how all the new LSA planes are cooling the rotax, I decided t
o make a cooling shroud or baffle as rotax calls it. I know something like
this came with some of the Kits but not mine. After seeing the RV-12 at KOS
H I decided to call Lockwood to see what one would cost. We'll the rotax ve
rsion was $900 + US dollars. So I got the clay out and started making one.
It turned out quite nice. All the air from the right intake will be funnele
d up a 2 inch scat tube to feed the thing.
After talking with Jeff B. of Baby Blue fame he thought it would be nice if
we could fashion a mold for anyone else wanting one. So before I start the
process I thought I'd test the waters on this list. Here is a picture of i
t. Jeff & I thought if we made such a mold that we could send it around to
others wanting to lay up such a shroud. A mold would be a lot easier than t
he process I went through to make this so if you are interested let me know
. Jeff gets first crack at it but we could send it on from there. All inter
ested parties please respond back and we'll see what we can do. It seems to
me that better and more even cooling will make a happier engine.
Best Regards,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 176 hours and down for the annual, Mod 71 and a l
ot of others.
Message 7
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Subject: | gaps for flying surfaces |
Gentlemen,
If you can take a moment or two...think back...way back...when you
were preparing your bird for priming/painting...think back about the
gaps...for example, the one between the outboard edge of the trim tab
and the edge of the indent for it in the tailplane.
Given that, once the bird is painted, one wants to have some (but
minimal and consistent) clearance between the trim tab and the
taillplane as the trim tab rotates on its hinges...and given that one
certainly wants to avoid sanding on finished painted surfaces or edges
(say in the event that unexpected rubbing results from paint
thickness)...
What thickness does the gap want to be prior to priming/painting? I
don't see a size called out in the manual.
Would a tongue-depresser stick (0.060" thick) be adequate to establish
the gap (prior to priming/painting)?
(I have no real sense of paint thickness...)
...not that I want to get toooooo anal about this...but I'm looking for
comments/advice much appreciated,
Fred
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Cooling Shroud |
Hi Paul & Bud,
I would think if your willing to take the manifolds off this may work
for both 912 & 914 shouldn't it? Of course I'm not sure on that so let
me know. I've decided that the mold would work better for all if I left
the part out where the intake tube goes in. That way those that have a
pump or alternator there could make the shroud then glass around and or
over it, then add the 2 inch tube.
I haven't had time this week so far to make the mold but I may get to
it this weekend. I'll keep the list posted.
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 176 hours and climbing slowly & looking
forward to the flying season.
On Feb 11, 2009, at 6:35 PM, Paul Boulet wrote:
> Hi Bud;
> I also have a 914 and with the hot Arizona temps need all the cooling
> I can find. It sounds like Jeff's form will only be for a 912. Do
> you have access to something like it for my 914? Thanks
> Paul Boulet, N914PB
>
> --- On Wed, 2/11/09, ALAN YERLY <budyerly@msn.com> wrote:
>> From: ALAN YERLY <budyerly@msn.com>
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cooling Shroud
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 4:09 PM
>>
>> Jeff,
>> Good going.
>>
>> Although mine covers the whole intake manifold and is set up for the
>> 914. Your copy of the Rotax part is tidy and a lot cheaper than that
>> overpriced vinyl ester piece Rotax sells.
>>
>> You may find that if you made yours from Aeropoxy that the edges may
>> get a little brown around the head, but not too bad. Vinyl ester can
>> take a little more temperature, but I figure if the lunch boxes on
>> top of the cylinders ofa Jabiru at 300F hold up made from Aeropoxy,
>> it will work on the rotax.
>>
>> You have a tri gear, and I can't believe with that big hole behind
>> your engine frame, that you need this, but let me know how it's
>> working.
>>
>> Bud
>> Custom Flight Creations.
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: JEFF ROBERTS
>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:01 PM
>>> Subject: Europa-List: Cooling Shroud
>>>
>>> HI All,
>>> After dealing with the uneven cooling issues under the Europa cowl,
>>> and after looking at how all the new LSA planes are cooling the
>>> rotax, I decided to make a cooling shroud or baffle as rotax calls
>>> it. I know something like this came with some of the Kits but not
>>> mine. After seeing the RV-12 at KOSH I decided to call Lockwood to
>>> see what one would cost. We'll the rotax version was $900 + US
>>> dollars. So I got the clay out and started making one. It turned out
>>> quite nice. All the air from the right intake will be funneled up a
>>> 2 inch scat tube to feed the thing.
>>> After talking with Jeff B. of Baby Blue fame he thought it would be
>>> nice if we could fashion a mold for anyone else wanting one. So
>>> before I start the process I thought I'd test the waters on this
>>> list. Here is a picture of it. Jeff & I thought if we made such a
>>> mold that we could send it around to others wanting to lay up such a
>>> shroud. A mold would be a lot easier than the process I went through
>>> to make this so if you are interested let me know. Jeff gets first
>>> crack at it but we could send it on from there. All interested
>>> parties please respond back and we'll see what we can do. It seems
>>> to me that better and more even cooling will make a happier engine.
>>> Best Regards,
>>>
>>> Jeff R.
>>> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 176 hours and down for the annual, Mod 71
>>> and a lot of others.
>>>
>>>
>>> <image.tiff>
>>
>>
>
> _-
> ========================3
> D========================
> 3D===========
> _-
> ========================3
> D========================
> 3D===========
> _-
> ========================3
> D========================
> 3D===========
> _-
> ========================3
> D========================
> 3D===========
>
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: gaps for flying surfaces |
Fred,
Ready for a brain dump?
You are spot on. I start with a little more at an 1/8 inch for most
aileron end gap minimums. Trim tabs to stab start about 3/32nd and it
works out that by the time you fill, sand etc. your down to a 1/16 or
so. Stab to fuselage gaps look good with a 1/4 to start with. This
allows clearance after painting for full stab movement. Gaps along the
hinge line have to be watched. I try to start with a long 1/16 so it
doesn't bind. Don't make the edges really sharp as some paints fail on
sharp edges or chip.
My problem is with the filler building up and a heavy handed painter at
the paint shop. With you doing it yourself, you can control most of
this. After all filling and sanding, and priming, then final sand, I
measured my paint thickness from a chip. With Three finish coats of
paint (Yes we painted it with two different whites, sanded it all down
and recoated with two more coats) and two primer coats (one a filler
primer, the second a sealer, of all polyurethane done properly then
buffed, came in at a whopping 10-15 mils or .010-.015. I've got a lot
of paint. My topcoat should only be 2.5 mils, unfortunately the primer
and previous paint is probably 7 plus. Most cars have 7 mils max. But
clear coats are thicker.
How much paint is needed, is a tough question. I reviewed with my
painter some measurements using a paint thickness device that he had
borrowed from a paint dealer. Paint thickness really depends also on UV
protection and the manufacturers recommended thickness. Most urethanes
recommend 2-2.5 mils minimum finish.
As for UV blocking, I use Imron. It takes a technique to apply well.
Basically, a lot of pressure on the final two coats (60 then 120 psi)
and a cool down during drying. All your jets use it, Peterbuilt trucks,
etc. My reference for review came from my painter, but I refer folks
http://www.auf.asn.au/scratchbuilder/coatings.html<http://www.auf.asn.au/
scratchbuilder/coatings.html>. The Aussies have real UV concerns, and
they have a need for efficient glass aircraft, hence their research and
advice to their builders is invaluable.
Lot's to ponder.
Be careful as these new urethanes will kill you. Get a fresh air
respirator so we can see you long after your first flight.
Bud
Custom Flight Creations
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Klein<mailto:fklein@orcasonline.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:05 PM
Subject: Europa-List: gaps for flying surfaces
<fklein@orcasonline.com<mailto:fklein@orcasonline.com>>
Gentlemen,
If you can take a moment or two...think back...way back...when you
were preparing your bird for priming/painting...think back about the
gaps...for example, the one between the outboard edge of the trim tab
and the edge of the indent for it in the tailplane.
Given that, once the bird is painted, one wants to have some (but
minimal and consistent) clearance between the trim tab and the
taillplane as the trim tab rotates on its hinges...and given that one
certainly wants to avoid sanding on finished painted surfaces or edges
(say in the event that unexpected rubbing results from paint
thickness)...
What thickness does the gap want to be prior to priming/painting? I
don't see a size called out in the manual.
Would a tongue-depresser stick (0.060" thick) be adequate to establish
the gap (prior to priming/painting)?
(I have no real sense of paint thickness...)
...not that I want to get toooooo anal about this...but I'm looking
for
comments/advice much appreciated,
Fred
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: gaps for flying surfaces |
On Feb 11, 2009, at 7:38 PM, ALAN YERLY wrote:
> Ready for a brain dump?
Oh yeah, oh yeah...thanks Bud, I kinda figured you'd have this down.
Truth is I have to check (and probably widen) all my gaps as I've
really kept my head in the sand vis a vis the reduction of a gap by
the TWO painted surfaces defining it.
Fred
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