---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 02/11/09: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:06 AM - Re: New Zealand Trip (Bill and Sue) 2. 04:57 AM - Re: New Zealand Trip (Graham Singleton) 3. 01:32 PM - Re: Cooling Shroud (rampil) 4. 04:05 PM - Re: New Zealand Trip (Mike Gregory) 5. 04:11 PM - Re: Cooling Shroud (ALAN YERLY) 6. 04:36 PM - Re: Cooling Shroud (Paul Boulet) 7. 06:08 PM - gaps for flying surfaces (Fred Klein) 8. 07:34 PM - Re: Cooling Shroud (JEFF ROBERTS) 9. 07:44 PM - Re: gaps for flying surfaces (ALAN YERLY) 10. 10:59 PM - Re: gaps for flying surfaces (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:21 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: New Zealand Trip From: "Bill and Sue" As it happens, Sue and I will be in NZ too 18/2 to 22/3. No schedule yet but happy to meet up if our paths cross and this turns into a Europa convention! we are en-route already so best contact is email or Skype Billandsueb Bill & Sue trigear 465, slow progress! Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:57:11 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: New Zealand Trip Bill and Sue wrote: > > As it happens, Sue and I will be in NZ too 18/2 to 22/3. No schedule yet but happy to meet up if our paths cross and this turns into a Europa convention! we are en-route already so best contact is email or Skype Billandsueb > > > Bill & Sue > trigear 465, slow progress! You might try Tony K, he knows everyone ;-) Auckland but gets around. Graham ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:32:44 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Cooling Shroud From: "rampil" Hi Ron, The other Aeropoxy mix described as amber doesn't help too much except that many epoxy hardeners are brownish vs polyester agents are purplish (not definitive to my knowledge). I had just done a quick google and didn't find anything other than what I previously mentioned. I do have several composite structural chemistry texts if someone really needs something looked up. -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=229840#229840 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:50 PM PST US From: "Mike Gregory" Subject: RE: Europa-List: New Zealand Trip Jim, During my trip to New Zealand last month I was delighted to meet Bill Sisley with his XS Mono. He was kind enough to fly me from Tauranga via a scenic tour of the Coromandel peninsular to Whitianga, where Peter Austin was flying off the hours on his WAM 120 diesel-powered Mono. Bill and Peter were both most generous with their hospitality. If they are typical of the Europa community in NZ, I am sure you will receive a very warm welcome. Enjoy your tour! Mike _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimpuglise@comcast.net Sent: 10 February 2009 15:36 Subject: Europa-List: New Zealand Trip Do not archive (It appears that the server stripped out my attached .PDF, so I have inserted our schedule.) Lynne and I will be visiting New Zealand from February 21 through March 22. It would be nice to get together with other builders for the purpose of lifting a beer or several and comparing notes. I plan to bring a printed copy of my builder's log and photos. I am building an XS tri-gear with a Jabiru 3300, and am about 75% done. I have attached our schedule and contact information. We will try to have Skype up as much as possible, and should also be checking e-mail daily. We have a car, but the schedule is quite full, so maybe we can get together in the evening. I have attached our schedule and contact information. Please pass on your phone numbers and other contact information if an evening will work out for you. Jim Puglise - A-283 Jim and Lynne Puglise Skype contact jim.puglise jimpuglise@comcast.net NZ Schedule Feb. 21, 22 Te Anu Feb. 23, 24 Dunedin Feb. 25, 26 Wanaka Feb. 27, 28 Franz Joseph March 1, 2 Christchurch March 3 Kaikoura March 4, 5 Nelson March 7, 8 Wellington March 9, 10 Napier March 11, 12 Rotorua March 13, 14 Te Awamutu March 15, 16 Warkworth March 17, 18, 19 Russell March 20, 21, 22 Auckland ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:11 PM PST US From: "ALAN YERLY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cooling Shroud Jeff, Good going. Although mine covers the whole intake manifold and is set up for the 914. Your copy of the Rotax part is tidy and a lot cheaper than that overpriced vinyl ester piece Rotax sells. You may find that if you made yours from Aeropoxy that the edges may get a little brown around the head, but not too bad. Vinyl ester can take a little more temperature, but I figure if the lunch boxes on top of the cylinders of a Jabiru at 300F hold up made from Aeropoxy, it will work on the rotax. You have a tri gear, and I can't believe with that big hole behind your engine frame, that you need this, but let me know how it's working. Bud Custom Flight Creations. ----- Original Message ----- From: JEFF ROBERTS To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: Europa-List: Cooling Shroud HI All, After dealing with the uneven cooling issues under the Europa cowl, and after looking at how all the new LSA planes are cooling the rotax, I decided to make a cooling shroud or baffle as rotax calls it. I know something like this came with some of the Kits but not mine. After seeing the RV-12 at KOSH I decided to call Lockwood to see what one would cost. We'll the rotax version was $900 + US dollars. So I got the clay out and started making one. It turned out quite nice. All the air from the right intake will be funneled up a 2 inch scat tube to feed the thing. After talking with Jeff B. of Baby Blue fame he thought it would be nice if we could fashion a mold for anyone else wanting one. So before I start the process I thought I'd test the waters on this list. Here is a picture of it. Jeff & I thought if we made such a mold that we could send it around to others wanting to lay up such a shroud. A mold would be a lot easier than the process I went through to make this so if you are interested let me know. Jeff gets first crack at it but we could send it on from there. All interested parties please respond back and we'll see what we can do. It seems to me that better and more even cooling will make a happier engine. Best Regards, Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 176 hours and down for the annual, Mod 71 and a lot of others. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:36:55 PM PST US From: Paul Boulet Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cooling Shroud Hi Bud; I also have a 914 and with the hot Arizona temps need all the cooling I can find.- It sounds like Jeff's form will only be for a 912.- Do you have access to something like it for my 914?- Thanks Paul Boulet, N914PB --- On Wed, 2/11/09, ALAN YERLY wrote: From: ALAN YERLY Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cooling Shroud Jeff, Good going.- - Although mine covers the whole intake manifold and is set up for the 914. - Your copy of the Rotax part is tidy and a lot cheaper than that overpri ced vinyl ester piece Rotax sells. - You may find that if you made yours from Aeropoxy that the edges may get a little brown around the head, but not too bad.- Vinyl ester can take a li ttle more temperature, but I figure if the lunch boxes on top of the cylind ers of-a Jabiru at 300F hold up made from Aeropoxy, it will work on the r otax. - You have a tri gear, and I can't believe with that big hole behind your eng ine frame, that you need this, but let me know how it's working. - Bud Custom Flight Creations. ----- Original Message ----- From: JEFF ROBERTS Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:01 PM Subject: Europa-List: Cooling Shroud HI All, After dealing with the uneven cooling issues under the Europa cowl, and aft er looking at how all the new LSA planes are cooling the rotax, I decided t o make a cooling shroud or baffle as rotax calls it. I know something like this came with some of the Kits but not mine. After seeing the RV-12 at KOS H I decided to call Lockwood to see what one would cost. We'll the rotax ve rsion was $900 + US dollars. So I got the clay out and started making one. It turned out quite nice. All the air from the right intake will be funnele d up a 2 inch scat tube to feed the thing. After talking with Jeff B. of Baby Blue fame he thought it would be nice if we could fashion a mold for anyone else wanting one. So before I start the process I thought I'd test the waters on this list. Here is a picture of i t. Jeff & I thought if we made such a mold that we could send it around to others wanting to lay up such a shroud. A mold would be a lot easier than t he process I went through to make this so if you are interested let me know . Jeff gets first crack at it but we could send it on from there. All inter ested parties please respond back and we'll see what we can do. It seems to me that better and more even cooling will make a happier engine. Best Regards, Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 176 hours and down for the annual, Mod 71 and a l ot of others. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:08:23 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Europa-List: gaps for flying surfaces Gentlemen, If you can take a moment or two...think back...way back...when you were preparing your bird for priming/painting...think back about the gaps...for example, the one between the outboard edge of the trim tab and the edge of the indent for it in the tailplane. Given that, once the bird is painted, one wants to have some (but minimal and consistent) clearance between the trim tab and the taillplane as the trim tab rotates on its hinges...and given that one certainly wants to avoid sanding on finished painted surfaces or edges (say in the event that unexpected rubbing results from paint thickness)... What thickness does the gap want to be prior to priming/painting? I don't see a size called out in the manual. Would a tongue-depresser stick (0.060" thick) be adequate to establish the gap (prior to priming/painting)? (I have no real sense of paint thickness...) ...not that I want to get toooooo anal about this...but I'm looking for comments/advice much appreciated, Fred -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:34:57 PM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cooling Shroud Hi Paul & Bud, I would think if your willing to take the manifolds off this may work for both 912 & 914 shouldn't it? Of course I'm not sure on that so let me know. I've decided that the mold would work better for all if I left the part out where the intake tube goes in. That way those that have a pump or alternator there could make the shroud then glass around and or over it, then add the 2 inch tube. I haven't had time this week so far to make the mold but I may get to it this weekend. I'll keep the list posted. Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 176 hours and climbing slowly & looking forward to the flying season. On Feb 11, 2009, at 6:35 PM, Paul Boulet wrote: > Hi Bud; > I also have a 914 and with the hot Arizona temps need all the cooling > I can find. It sounds like Jeff's form will only be for a 912. Do > you have access to something like it for my 914? Thanks > Paul Boulet, N914PB > > --- On Wed, 2/11/09, ALAN YERLY wrote: >> From: ALAN YERLY >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cooling Shroud >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Date: Wednesday, February 11, 2009, 4:09 PM >> >> Jeff, >> Good going. >> >> Although mine covers the whole intake manifold and is set up for the >> 914. Your copy of the Rotax part is tidy and a lot cheaper than that >> overpriced vinyl ester piece Rotax sells. >> >> You may find that if you made yours from Aeropoxy that the edges may >> get a little brown around the head, but not too bad. Vinyl ester can >> take a little more temperature, but I figure if the lunch boxes on >> top of the cylinders ofa Jabiru at 300F hold up made from Aeropoxy, >> it will work on the rotax. >> >> You have a tri gear, and I can't believe with that big hole behind >> your engine frame, that you need this, but let me know how it's >> working. >> >> Bud >> Custom Flight Creations. >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: JEFF ROBERTS >>> To: europa-list@matronics.com >>> Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 8:01 PM >>> Subject: Europa-List: Cooling Shroud >>> >>> HI All, >>> After dealing with the uneven cooling issues under the Europa cowl, >>> and after looking at how all the new LSA planes are cooling the >>> rotax, I decided to make a cooling shroud or baffle as rotax calls >>> it. I know something like this came with some of the Kits but not >>> mine. After seeing the RV-12 at KOSH I decided to call Lockwood to >>> see what one would cost. We'll the rotax version was $900 + US >>> dollars. So I got the clay out and started making one. It turned out >>> quite nice. All the air from the right intake will be funneled up a >>> 2 inch scat tube to feed the thing. >>> After talking with Jeff B. of Baby Blue fame he thought it would be >>> nice if we could fashion a mold for anyone else wanting one. So >>> before I start the process I thought I'd test the waters on this >>> list. Here is a picture of it. Jeff & I thought if we made such a >>> mold that we could send it around to others wanting to lay up such a >>> shroud. A mold would be a lot easier than the process I went through >>> to make this so if you are interested let me know. Jeff gets first >>> crack at it but we could send it on from there. All interested >>> parties please respond back and we'll see what we can do. It seems >>> to me that better and more even cooling will make a happier engine. >>> Best Regards, >>> >>> Jeff R. >>> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 176 hours and down for the annual, Mod 71 >>> and a lot of others. >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > _- > ========================3 > D======================== > 3D=========== > _- > ========================3 > D======================== > 3D=========== > _- > ========================3 > D======================== > 3D=========== > _- > ========================3 > D======================== > 3D=========== > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:44:58 PM PST US From: "ALAN YERLY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: gaps for flying surfaces Fred, Ready for a brain dump? You are spot on. I start with a little more at an 1/8 inch for most aileron end gap minimums. Trim tabs to stab start about 3/32nd and it works out that by the time you fill, sand etc. your down to a 1/16 or so. Stab to fuselage gaps look good with a 1/4 to start with. This allows clearance after painting for full stab movement. Gaps along the hinge line have to be watched. I try to start with a long 1/16 so it doesn't bind. Don't make the edges really sharp as some paints fail on sharp edges or chip. My problem is with the filler building up and a heavy handed painter at the paint shop. With you doing it yourself, you can control most of this. After all filling and sanding, and priming, then final sand, I measured my paint thickness from a chip. With Three finish coats of paint (Yes we painted it with two different whites, sanded it all down and recoated with two more coats) and two primer coats (one a filler primer, the second a sealer, of all polyurethane done properly then buffed, came in at a whopping 10-15 mils or .010-.015. I've got a lot of paint. My topcoat should only be 2.5 mils, unfortunately the primer and previous paint is probably 7 plus. Most cars have 7 mils max. But clear coats are thicker. How much paint is needed, is a tough question. I reviewed with my painter some measurements using a paint thickness device that he had borrowed from a paint dealer. Paint thickness really depends also on UV protection and the manufacturers recommended thickness. Most urethanes recommend 2-2.5 mils minimum finish. As for UV blocking, I use Imron. It takes a technique to apply well. Basically, a lot of pressure on the final two coats (60 then 120 psi) and a cool down during drying. All your jets use it, Peterbuilt trucks, etc. My reference for review came from my painter, but I refer folks http://www.auf.asn.au/scratchbuilder/coatings.html. The Aussies have real UV concerns, and they have a need for efficient glass aircraft, hence their research and advice to their builders is invaluable. Lot's to ponder. Be careful as these new urethanes will kill you. Get a fresh air respirator so we can see you long after your first flight. Bud Custom Flight Creations ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Klein To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 11, 2009 9:05 PM Subject: Europa-List: gaps for flying surfaces > Gentlemen, If you can take a moment or two...think back...way back...when you were preparing your bird for priming/painting...think back about the gaps...for example, the one between the outboard edge of the trim tab and the edge of the indent for it in the tailplane. Given that, once the bird is painted, one wants to have some (but minimal and consistent) clearance between the trim tab and the taillplane as the trim tab rotates on its hinges...and given that one certainly wants to avoid sanding on finished painted surfaces or edges (say in the event that unexpected rubbing results from paint thickness)... What thickness does the gap want to be prior to priming/painting? I don't see a size called out in the manual. Would a tongue-depresser stick (0.060" thick) be adequate to establish the gap (prior to priming/painting)? (I have no real sense of paint thickness...) ...not that I want to get toooooo anal about this...but I'm looking for comments/advice much appreciated, Fred -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:11 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: gaps for flying surfaces On Feb 11, 2009, at 7:38 PM, ALAN YERLY wrote: > Ready for a brain dump? Oh yeah, oh yeah...thanks Bud, I kinda figured you'd have this down. Truth is I have to check (and probably widen) all my gaps as I've really kept my head in the sand vis a vis the reduction of a gap by the TWO painted surfaces defining it. Fred -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.