Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:14 AM - Re: Exhaust Lagging (Kingsley Hurst)
2. 04:08 AM - Wing close-out panel (Lance Sandford)
3. 04:36 AM - Re: Exhaust Lagging (Robert C Harrison)
4. 06:00 AM - Re: Exhaust Lagging (rampil)
5. 06:34 AM - Re: Wing close-out panel (JEFF ROBERTS)
6. 07:23 AM - Re: Exhaust Lagging (Gilles Thesee)
7. 08:56 AM - Re: Wing close-out panel (William McClellan)
8. 09:37 AM - Mod 67 (William McClellan)
9. 10:03 AM - Re: Wing close-out panel (Kevin Klinefelter)
10. 10:18 AM - G Singleton fuel mod (William McClellan)
11. 11:10 AM - Re: Re: Exhaust Lagging (Jeff B)
12. 12:48 PM - ceramic coat for Exhaust Lagging (David Joyce)
13. 02:22 PM - Re: ceramic coat for Exhaust Lagging (karelvranken)
14. 03:47 PM - Stall Warner Switch (Troy Maynor)
15. 03:50 PM - Re: Wing close-out panel (Graham Singleton)
16. 04:05 PM - Seat Foundations (Troy Maynor)
17. 05:18 PM - Re: Seat Foundations (Peter Timm)
18. 06:10 PM - Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Lagging |
> What we have done is install light *radiation* shields a few millimeters
> from the pipes where needed to prevent carbs or fuel lines from 'seeing'
> the red hot exhausts or turbo. The free space between the exhaust and
> 'targets' allows free air passage. I did the same between the 4 into 1 and
> the cowling.
> but I know Europa-philes are wary of non-Europa opinions
Gilles
As one Europaphile with much respect for the time and effort you have
invested in ALL things to do with your non Europa aircraft, may I request
what sort of material you used for same please. Also, if you have a photo
or two of your shields, any chance of attaching them to an email for the
list please ?
Quite a few years ago, the exhaust of a V8 engine on our Glider winch used
to regularly cook the end of the starter motor. In a desperate attempt to
mitigate this problem and after I had a sudden rush of blood to the head, I
fashioned a very crude shield from a piece of tin and much to my
astonishment, the problem never reappeared. so I have no doubts about your
findings.
Many thanks
Kingsley in Oz.
Message 2
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| Subject: | Wing close-out panel |
To those how have been there
There are numerous reports in the archives about checking the gap
between the wing ribs and close-out panel and filling the gap with a
Redux/flox mix prior to finally fixing the panel.
Nobody seems to have mentioned the thickness of filling required.
I have been checking the gap on my wings using the usual plasticine
(play-dough) method and my gaps range from 2mm to 7mm with appropriate
spacers on flap and aileron and straight edges and weights on fore and
aft edges of panel.
The 7mm is in the recess for the lateral stiffener of the Stbd wing. A
5mm gap is quite common on the stbd side.
Are these gaps normal ?
What range of gaps have other builders filled?
Lance Sandford in Oz
Message 3
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Hi! Kingsley,
I wouldn't bother welding the shields just fashion them with a flange
and use jubilee clips to hold them in place.
Bob H
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley
Hurst
Sent: 16 February 2009 10:10
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Exhaust Lagging
<hurstkr@redzone.com.au>
> What we have done is install light *radiation* shields a few
millimeters
> from the pipes where needed to prevent carbs or fuel lines from
'seeing'
> the red hot exhausts or turbo. The free space between the exhaust and
> 'targets' allows free air passage. I did the same between the 4 into 1
and
> the cowling.
> but I know Europa-philes are wary of non-Europa opinions
Gilles
As one Europaphile with much respect for the time and effort you have
invested in ALL things to do with your non Europa aircraft, may I
request
what sort of material you used for same please. Also, if you have a
photo
or two of your shields, any chance of attaching them to an email for the
list please ?
Quite a few years ago, the exhaust of a V8 engine on our Glider winch
used
to regularly cook the end of the starter motor. In a desperate attempt
to
mitigate this problem and after I had a sudden rush of blood to the
head, I
fashioned a very crude shield from a piece of tin and much to my
astonishment, the problem never reappeared. so I have no doubts about
your
findings.
Many thanks
Kingsley in Oz.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Lagging |
Greeting Kingsley,
Take a peek at you muffler. The top surface has a thin Aluminum
sheet heat shield. I once thought it was stainless, but the OEM of the
Europa mufflers corrected me. I does seem to work well, keeping the
banjo and the coolant hoses from toasting.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230484#230484
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Wing close-out panel |
Lance,
Neville showed me the best way for this. Just do as you did with the
clay only this time pile the redux everywhere its supposed to go. Then
place the wing panel on with some plastic / polyurethane attached to
it. Or place the plastic over the reduxed ribs then place the panel on
that. Weight it down just as though your doing it for the final time.
After the cure take the panel off pull all the plastic off and poof....
All the gaps are full. Now you can trim off all the extra cured redux
thats wider than the ribs. Rough the part your leaving with some
sandpaper and now you can apply a much thiner layer of the goo. Make
sure you rough the inner wing panel where it will contact the ribs as
well. Place it back on for the final gluing.
No extra reduxe, weight, or wondering if there's any lurking gaps under
the wing panel.
Hop this helps!!
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 176 hours and down for mods.
On Feb 16, 2009, at 6:06 AM, Lance Sandford wrote:
> <sandford@melbpc.org.au>
>
> To those how have been there
>
> There are numerous reports in the archives about checking the gap
> between the wing ribs and close-out panel and filling the gap with a
> Redux/flox mix prior to finally fixing the panel.
>
> Nobody seems to have mentioned the thickness of filling required.
>
> I have been checking the gap on my wings using the usual plasticine
> (play-dough) method and my gaps range from 2mm to 7mm with appropriate
> spacers on flap and aileron and straight edges and weights on fore and
> aft edges of panel.
>
> The 7mm is in the recess for the lateral stiffener of the Stbd wing. A
> 5mm gap is quite common on the stbd side.
>
> Are these gaps normal ?
>
> What range of gaps have other builders filled?
>
> Lance Sandford in Oz
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Lagging |
Kingsley and all
>
> As one Europaphile with much respect for the time and effort you have
> invested in ALL things to do with your non Europa aircraft, may I
> request what sort of material you used for same please. Also, if you
> have a photo or two of your shields, any chance of attaching them to
> an email for the list please ?
Thank you for the encouraging messages from the Europa community.
When the shield is very close to the exhaust, or attached to it, we've
used stainless steel sheet (will have a look at the remaining sheets to
get the exact specs) with bent tabs and stainless steel clamps.
Otherwise, we attached the shield to the adjacent 'target' part. In that
case, sheet aluminum attached with screws or rivets works well. The
important thing is reflecting heat, and allowing free air passage on
both sides of the shield.
I'll retrieve some photos, and maybe craft a small page on the subject.
Hope this helps a bit.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Wing close-out panel |
Lance,
Jeff Roberts suggestion works well but some words of warning for the whole close
out process. First if you have any very deep gaps to fill up and you weight
the panel too much local to that place, the panel may depress more than you might
want requiring surface filling later. Though a slightly low area is better
than a high area after close out. Use some method of adequately distributing
the weights. I used some 1 1/2 steel box tubing and containers of water as
I did not have as much lead as shown in the manual picture. Secondly, if you
make the redux/flox mixture too thick (as I did) the redux can have some difficulty
squeezing enough out of a gap making a high area, which again is worse
than a low area. A wider the area to be glued down, such as the top of the box
over the aileron balance arms, are where my "too thick" redux was not able to
squeeze out causing a high spot. Once glued, you can't easily correct these
results, so review your process well before actual gluing.
Good Luck
Bill McClellan
A-164
-----Original Message-----
>From: Lance Sandford <sandford@melbpc.org.au>
>Sent: Feb 16, 2009 4:06 AM
>To: Europa-List <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Europa-List: Wing close-out panel
>
>
>To those how have been there
>
>There are numerous reports in the archives about checking the gap
>between the wing ribs and close-out panel and filling the gap with a
>Redux/flox mix prior to finally fixing the panel.
>
>Nobody seems to have mentioned the thickness of filling required.
>
>I have been checking the gap on my wings using the usual plasticine
>(play-dough) method and my gaps range from 2mm to 7mm with appropriate
>spacers on flap and aileron and straight edges and weights on fore and
>aft edges of panel.
>
>The 7mm is in the recess for the lateral stiffener of the Stbd wing. A
>5mm gap is quite common on the stbd side.
>
>Are these gaps normal ?
>
>What range of gaps have other builders filled?
>
>Lance Sandford in Oz
>
>
Message 8
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Does anyone have some building progress pictures of the Cockpit Width Increase
Moc 67? A particular area I want to see is the door recess moldings (F35P and
F35S) and the "new flange layup".
Thanks,
Bill McClellan
A-164
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Wing close-out panel |
All very good sugestions that I wish I had known before I glued my wing
panels on! I have one more suggestion, that I forget who told me about .
With regard to those aileron balance boxes. To ensure not having a high spot
in the top skin as Bill suggests, simply cut the top of the box off. Then
after your wing skins are cured you lay up some bid inside the box to the
top skin, replacing what you cut off. This also ensures you get the maximum
clearance for the aileron balance weights from the top skin. And of course
it is much easier to sand all the sufaces affecting this little layup before
the skins go on.
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "William McClellan" <wilwood@earthlink.net>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 8:50 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing close-out panel
> <wilwood@earthlink.net>
>
> Lance,
> Jeff Roberts suggestion works well but some words of warning for the whole
> close out process. First if you have any very deep gaps to fill up and
> you weight the panel too much local to that place, the panel may depress
> more than you might want requiring surface filling later. Though a
> slightly low area is better than a high area after close out. Use some
> method of adequately distributing the weights. I used some 1 1/2 steel
> box tubing and containers of water as I did not have as much lead as shown
> in the manual picture. Secondly, if you make the redux/flox mixture too
> thick (as I did) the redux can have some difficulty squeezing enough out
> of a gap making a high area, which again is worse than a low area. A
> wider the area to be glued down, such as the top of the box over the
> aileron balance arms, are where my "too thick" redux was not able to
> squeeze out causing a high spot. Once glued, you can't easily correct
> these results, so review your process well before actual !
> gluing.
> Good Luck
> Bill McClellan
> A-164
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
>>From: Lance Sandford <sandford@melbpc.org.au>
>>Sent: Feb 16, 2009 4:06 AM
>>To: Europa-List <europa-list@matronics.com>
>>Subject: Europa-List: Wing close-out panel
>>
>>
>>To those how have been there
>>
>>There are numerous reports in the archives about checking the gap
>>between the wing ribs and close-out panel and filling the gap with a
>>Redux/flox mix prior to finally fixing the panel.
>>
>>Nobody seems to have mentioned the thickness of filling required.
>>
>>I have been checking the gap on my wings using the usual plasticine
>>(play-dough) method and my gaps range from 2mm to 7mm with appropriate
>>spacers on flap and aileron and straight edges and weights on fore and
>>aft edges of panel.
>>
>>The 7mm is in the recess for the lateral stiffener of the Stbd wing. A
>>5mm gap is quite common on the stbd side.
>>
>>Are these gaps normal ?
>>
>>What range of gaps have other builders filled?
>>
>>Lance Sandford in Oz
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | G Singleton fuel mod |
Graham,
Some years ago I bought the fuel mod machined parts from you and now want to install
them, but I do not have the install write up any longer. Can I get that
from you? I tried emails to you off line and didn't seem to go through.
Thanks,
Bill McClellan
A-164
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Exhaust Lagging |
Ira and all,
I've replaced that aluminum shield, twice, due to cracking. Last
shield, I made from thin stainless. In fact it was the firewall
material supplied in the kit. No more cracking...
Jeff - Baby Blue
rampil wrote:
>
> Greeting Kingsley,
>
> Take a peek at you muffler. The top surface has a thin Aluminum
> sheet heat shield. I once thought it was stainless, but the OEM of the
> Europa mufflers corrected me. I does seem to work well, keeping the
> banjo and the coolant hoses from toasting.
>
> --------
> Ira N224XS
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=230484#230484
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | ceramic coat for Exhaust Lagging |
Part of my background is working with race cars, in this industry its quite
common to apply a ceramic coat to exhaust systems to reduce radiated heat, a
company that I know is very good at this is called camcoat.
I wonder is this an option on a Europa? instead of lagging, it is more
expensive but is certainly permanent...
It does have the benifit of improoving engine performance as well!
rgds
David Joyce
"the other one"
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: ceramic coat for Exhaust Lagging |
David,
My exhaust system was coated by Zircotec, Harwell Business Centre, Didcot
Oxfordshire, OX11 0QJ, tel 01235 434320.
The price was less than 500 Euro.
Best regards,
Karel Vranken # 447 F-PKRL
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Joyce" <stranfaer@btinternet.com>
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:45 PM
Subject: Europa-List: ceramic coat for Exhaust Lagging
> <stranfaer@btinternet.com>
>
> Part of my background is working with race cars, in this industry its
> quite common to apply a ceramic coat to exhaust systems to reduce radiated
> heat, a company that I know is very good at this is called camcoat.
>
> I wonder is this an option on a Europa? instead of lagging, it is more
> expensive but is certainly permanent...
> It does have the benifit of improoving engine performance as well!
>
> rgds
> David Joyce
> "the other one"
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Stall Warner Switch |
Hey Folks,
Can someone who has one, tell me at what airspeed the switch for the
factory stall warner closes and at what speed it opens? Is it a
definite open and close or is it a variable arrangement? I am not happy
with the one I have for a gear warning circuit. The dead band is too
great and not the ideal airspeed anyway. Any information on the switch
would be helpful too, like the hose fitting size, electrical
connections, mounting, COST, etc.
Troy Maynor
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Wing close-out panel |
William McClellan wrote:
>
> Lance,
> Jeff Roberts suggestion works well but some words of warning for the whole close
out process. First if you have any very deep gaps to fill up and you weight
the panel too much local to that place, the panel may depress more than you
might want requiring surface filling later. Though a slightly low area is better
than a high area after close out. Use some method of adequately distributing
the weights. I used some 1 1/2 steel box tubing and containers of water
as I did not have as much lead as shown in the manual picture. Secondly, if you
make the redux/flox mixture too thick (as I did) the redux can have some difficulty
squeezing enough out of a gap making a high area, which again is worse
than a low area. A wider the area to be glued down, such as the top of the
box over the aileron balance arms, are where my "too thick" redux was not able
to squeeze out causing a high spot. Once glued, you can't easily correct these
results, so review your process well before actual !
> gluing.
> Good Luck
> Bill McClellan
> A-164
Lance
this is how I would do it.
1 Mark where the ribs are on the skin, wax for release then lay up 2
plies of BID in 2" wide strips. Peel ply.
2. Mix up some very stiff micro and put strips of it on the ribs high
enough to bond the capping strips.
3. After cure tidy up the micro and add 2 ply BID corner lay ups with
peel ply.
4. tidy up then bond on the skin with Redux.
regards
Graham
Message 16
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| Subject: | Seat Foundations |
Hey All,
I was considering using a high density poly foam, (gray in color) to do
the initial build up of the seats instead of the blue foam we built the
plane with. I am looking at 4 inch stuff in the bottom and some 4 inch
for the wedge that blends into the same plane as the headrest to get the
desired 70 degree recline. Actually near the thigh supports it will need
to be 5 inches thick. But I guess what I am asking, will a hard high
density foam be desirable over the even harder and rigid blue stuff? I
was thinking of maybe 1 or 2 inches of the medium polyurethane for the
final toppers. Thoughts?
Troy Maynor
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Seat Foundations |
Troy, I made myself seat-bottoms of blue foam, but soon found out ,
that only several layers of seat-cushions made sense.
It is the only way to adjust the seats for different sized occupants.
Mine is a classic mono, and I had a friend, who is 6'2" and admits to
235 lb, up for a 55 min. flight. He was not very comfortable sitting on
a hard bottom with no back-cushion, but it was
his idea. My upholstery has 1/4 " foam under the fabric everywhere.Three
cushions of different thickness give lots of options.
One layer is 1" temper-foam. The rest should also not be too soft.Even
for the back, two 1" cushions are better than one 2" one.
Peter Timm, # 110
----- Original Message -----
From: Troy Maynor
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 4:03 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Seat Foundations
Hey All,
I was considering using a high density poly foam, (gray in color) to
do the initial build up of the seats instead of the blue foam we built
the plane with. I am looking at 4 inch stuff in the bottom and some 4
inch for the wedge that blends into the same plane as the headrest to
get the desired 70 degree recline. Actually near the thigh supports it
will need to be 5 inches thick. But I guess what I am asking, will a
hard high density foam be desirable over the even harder and rigid blue
stuff? I was thinking of maybe 1 or 2 inches of the medium polyurethane
for the final toppers. Thoughts?
Troy Maynor
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
02/16/09 06:55:00
Message 18
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| Subject: | Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? |
Hi Group
Anyone have pictures and or description how they
mounted wing tip strobe power supplies?
I have a Kunzleman dual
strobe power supply, and unless I get it at least 8 feet away from
antennas, antenna cables and radios, tick, tick, tick breaking squelch.
Thx.
Ron P.
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