---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 02/17/09: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:35 AM - Re: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies (stephan@scassel.se) 2. 02:05 AM - Re: Seat Foundations (Graham Singleton) 3. 06:34 AM - tail stall (Graham Singleton) 4. 06:52 AM - Re: Exhaust lagging (John & Paddy Wigney) 5. 07:21 AM - Re: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? (jimpuglise@comcast.net) 6. 08:03 AM - Re: tail stall (William Harrison) 7. 08:23 AM - Re: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 8. 09:36 AM - Re: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? (Jan de Jong) 9. 09:36 AM - Re: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? (Jan de Jong) 10. 10:23 AM - Re: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? (Graham Singleton) 11. 02:20 PM - Re: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? (Robert Borger) 12. 02:47 PM - DOTH Thursday 19th Leicester (Paddy Clarke) 13. 03:51 PM - Re: Wing close-out panel (Jan de Jong) 14. 04:45 PM - Re: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? (Fred Klein) 15. 05:13 PM - Re: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 16. 07:53 PM - Re: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? (Robert Borger) 17. 09:36 PM - Re: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:35:22 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies From: stephan@scassel.se Hi Ron, This is how I made the power supplies mounting: 1. Mark where the opening will be http://scassel.se/europa/cap3/images4/DSCN1033.JPG 2. Prepare the flange for the panel. (3 layers of bid) http://scassel.se/europa/cap3/images4/DSCN1034.JPG 3. Open the skin with a Dremel or similar http://scassel.se/europa/cap3/images4/DSCN1037.JPG http://scassel.se/europa/cap3/images4/DSCN1038.JPG http://scassel.se/europa/cap3/images4/DSCN1039.JPG 4. Mount the flange layup from #2 (epoxy/flox or Araldite 420) http://scassel.se/europa/cap3/images4/DSCN1041.JPG 5. After cure, open the flange (15 mm wide or so) and mount nuts. Mount the supply with bolts through the skin. Reinforce the skin area where the bolts enter the skin. I use counter sink bolt heads http://scassel.se/europa/cap3/images4/DSCN1029.JPG Done ! Regards Stephan Cassel LN-STE Mono #556 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:05:38 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Seat Foundations A thin bean bag is the most comfortable. It also crushes and absorbs impact energy in a heavy landing and adjusts to any shape of butt to give even pressure all over, the key to comfort. imho of course. In my case comfort is more important than appearance ;-) Graham Peter Timm wrote: > Troy, I made myself seat-bottoms of blue foam, but soon found out , > that only several layers of seat-cushions made sense. > It is the only way to adjust the seats for different sized occupants. > Mine is a classic mono, and I had a friend, who is 6'2" and admits to > 235 lb, up for a 55 min. flight. He was not very comfortable sitting > on a hard bottom with no back-cushion, but it was > his idea. My upholstery has 1/4 " foam under the fabric > everywhere.Three cushions of different thickness give lots of options. > One layer is 1" temper-foam. The rest should also not be too soft.Even > for the back, two 1" cushions are better than one 2" one. > > Peter Timm, # 110 > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:24 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: tail stall Hi All I know we don't often fly in icing conditiona but this is an excellent piece of research. Some of us (not me :-) ) fly large aircraft too. I think it's well worth the few minutes to watch this NASA video. Learn something every day.! Graham Posted by: "FlyingTiger" tiger@telis.net flyingtiger05 Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 am (PST) The video I have added as a link is a lesson for everyone. This is fairly new information about stalls. I fly a variety of aircraft when they become available and believe me this is an eye opener. You think you know about stalls? Practiced them till they made you boring? In Cessna, Piper, Grumman, whatever? Have you given any thought about what might have caused the crash Of CO3407 recently near Buffalo NY? The airplane was a DH8-Q400. Google that airplane and crashes...you might be surprised. Beyond that have a look at this video by FAA/NASA about icing that we all should share: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2238323060735779946 It would seem we need to give much more thought to the procedures that have been embedded into us all through our training as pilots. Tim ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:54 AM PST US From: John & Paddy Wigney Subject: Europa-List: Re: Exhaust lagging Dear Europaphiles, I agree with Gilles and Ira regarding the effectiveness of putting a simple reflector barrier between the hot exhaust system and sensitive areas such as oil hoses, fuel lines and carburettors. The oil return hose from the centre of the sump is particularly vulnerable. Some years ago, a Europa pilot in Florida had this rubber oil hose fracture in flight because it had been embrittled by heat. He got it down OK but there was oil everywhere. When one stops the engine, there is a lot of radiant and convection heat soak from the muffler into the parts above, particularly the rubber oil return hose in the centre of the sump. I used some of the polished light gauge stainless sheet which was supplied for the firewall (I used Graham Singleton's phenolic firewall) to make a heat shield plate immediately above the muffler. It is secured at the front with small brackets to 2 existing tapped holes in the engine and at the rear with 2 'p' clips to the engine mounting frame. I put 2 diagonal creases in the shield to prevent 'oil canning'. It works well. Cheers, John N262WF, mono XS, 912S Mooresville, North Carolina ORIGINAL MESSAGE From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: Exhaust Lagging When the shield is very close to the exhaust, or attached to it, we've used stainless steel sheet (will have a look at the remaining sheets to get the exact specs) with bent tabs and stainless steel clamps. Otherwise, we attached the shield to the adjacent 'target' part. In that case, sheet aluminum attached with screws or rivets works well. The important thing is reflecting heat, and allowing free air passage on both sides of the shield. I'll retrieve some photos, and maybe craft a small page on the subject. Hope this helps a bit. Best regards,-- Gilles ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:21:57 AM PST US From: jimpuglise@comcast.net Subject: Re: Europa-List: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? Ron- Mine is on the bottom of the port access panel in the baggage bay.=C2- I ran irrigation tubing through the wings containing #18 wire for both the st robes and position lights.=C2- I did not want to mount something that wei ghed as much as the strobe controller in the wing.=C2- I have seen a few mounted directly to the spar with an access panel in the wing skin.=C2- I did not want to put another panel in the wing.=C2- The answer for you mi ght be to use very light weight coaxial cable for the strobe portion with t he shields well grounded and your controllers located on the port and starb oard baggage bay access panels.=C2- =C2- Jim Puglise -- Original Message ----- From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 9:06:46 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Europa-List: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe pow er supplies? Hi Group Anyone have pictures and or description how they mounted wing tip strobe po wer supplies? I have a Kunzleman dual strobe power supply, and unless I get it at least 8 feet away from antennas, antenna cables and radios, tick, tick, tick break ing squelch. Thx. Ron P. == ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:03:23 AM PST US From: William Harrison Subject: Re: Europa-List: tail stall So much food for thought (especially in the light of the report that the Buffalo aircraft was on autopilot). How much ice has anyone seen on a Europa in flight? Also, in the spirit of "I learned about flying from that", let me add a comment about a lesson learned many years ago when I was flying a PA28 in marginal icing conditions. I was watching the leading edges very carefully and they were slightly frosty but not getting any worse so I thought I was OK. Suddenly there was a bit of a thump and the aircraft started vibrating very severely. It was an iced up prop which had shed ice from one side only and the only option was to reduce power to idle and glide down hoping the other side would melt before reaching zero feet - it did so, perhaps helped by my red face radiating heat forwards. Another beer I owe to my guardian angel. Willie On 17 Feb 2009, at 14:31, Graham Singleton wrote: > > > Hi All > > I know we don't often fly in icing conditiona but this is an > excellent piece of research. Some of us (not me :-) ) fly large > aircraft too. I think it's well worth the few minutes to watch this > NASA video. Learn something every day.! > > Graham > > > Posted by: "FlyingTiger" tiger@telis.net > 20Crash%2E%2Ehmmm> > flyingtiger05 > > > Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:35 am (PST) > > The video I have added as a link is a lesson for everyone. This is > fairly new information about stalls. I fly a variety of aircraft > when they become available and believe me this is an eye opener. > > You think you know about stalls? Practiced them till they made you > boring? In Cessna, Piper, Grumman, whatever? Have you given any > thought about what might have caused the crash Of CO3407 recently > near Buffalo NY? The airplane was a DH8-Q400. Google that airplane > and crashes...you might be surprised. > > Beyond that have a look at this video by FAA/NASA about icing that > we all should share: > > http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2238323060735779946 video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2238323060735779946> > > It would seem we need to give much more thought to the procedures > that have been embedded into us all through our training as pilots. > > Tim > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:51 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi group Thx. for the replies about strobe power supply positioning. Jim: "> Mine is on the bottom of the port access panel in the baggage bay. I ran > irrigation tubing through the wings containing #18 wire for both the > strobes and position lights. A I did not want to mount something that > weighed as much as the strobe controller in the wing." That's exactly what I did, beautiful installation of my Kuntzleman power supply on the starboard baggage bay rib. When I tested, if there is an antenna cable (RG-400 or RG-142), radio or antenna within 8 feet of power supply, tick, tick, tick. Nothing I tried helps. Power supply is grounded. Supply lines are shielded, I tried no ground, ground on supply side and ground on power supply side. I tried wrapping power supply in 2 layers of aluminium foil figuring RFI leaking out of connectors, no joy grounded or un grounded. I tried wrapping antenna cable with aluminium foil, grounded and un grounded. i tried grounding antenna cable. Nothing works, have to turn squelch up where don't get what it is I want. The only thing that helps is moving power supply at least 8 feet away. I hear from a local IA that Whelen is the only powers supply he uses because he had noise issues with others. Kunzleman power supply is pretty small, 10 oz and each one uses ~ 1.5 amps. I have their combo LED/strobe heads already mounted. When you test yours, let us know if you have good results. My experience is pretty much identical to this builder: http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/antennas.html Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:37 AM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Re: Europa-List: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? Hi Ron, I put a single strobe power supply on the outboard end of each spar with an access hole below. The strobes will be uncoordinated, but I keep the high voltage wires short. Attached some pictures, quality soso. Access holes are a little large, because my first plan was putting the power supplies on the lids. Power supply attachment using reduxed McMaster-Carr studs and bid. Light fixtures attached with cut down studs reduxed only. Regards, Jan de Jong ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 09:36:51 AM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Re: Europa-List: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? Hi Ron, The other 3 pictures I thought to send. Regards, Jan de Jong ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:23:19 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? Jan de Jong wrote: > The strobes will be uncoordinated, but I keep the high voltage wires > short. > Attached some pictures, quality soso. > Jan de Jong Jan you will look like a tight formation of two aircraft ;-) . Good idea though, especially with a composite airplane Graham ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:35 PM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Re: Europa-List: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? Ron, FWIW... Absolutely no noise problems with my Whelen strobe power supply (mounted on the baggage bay bulkhead below "D" door). Power supply is grounded. Strobe HV lines have shields grounded at the power supply end and strobe shields are connected through any connector in the link. Also, I have the LED/Strobe heads on the Europa. The LEDs are VERY bright! Much brighter than standard incandescent lamps. Everyone who has seen the Nav lights on the aircraft in the air has commented on how bright they are. Now I have a set of Nav/Strobe heads with incandescent lamps that I'll never use. Was going to put them on my Toot but have changed my mind. From now on, only LED units go on my aircraft! Check six, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL Aircraft Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Feb 17, 2009, at 10:20, rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us wrote: > Hi group > > Thx. for the replies about strobe power supply positioning. > > Jim: > "> Mine is on the bottom of the port access panel in the baggage > bay. I ran > > irrigation tubing through the wings containing #18 wire for both the > > strobes and position lights. A I did not want to mount something > that > > weighed as much as the strobe controller in the wing." > > That's exactly what I did, beautiful installation of my Kuntzleman > power supply on the starboard baggage bay rib. When I tested, if > there is an antenna cable (RG-400 or RG-142), radio or antenna > within 8 feet of power supply, tick, tick, tick. Nothing I tried > helps. Power supply is grounded. Supply lines are shielded, I tried > no ground, ground on supply side and ground on power supply side. I > tried wrapping power supply in 2 layers of aluminium foil figuring > RFI leaking out of connectors, no joy grounded or un grounded. I > tried wrapping antenna cable with aluminium foil, grounded and un > grounded. i tried grounding antenna cable. Nothing works, have to > turn squelch up where don't get what it is I want. > > The only thing that helps is moving power supply at least 8 feet > away. I hear from a local IA that Whelen is the only powers supply > he uses because he had noise issues with others. > > Kunzleman power supply is pretty small, 10 oz and each one uses ~ > 1.5 amps. I have their combo LED/strobe heads already mounted. > > When you test yours, let us know if you have good results. > > My experience is pretty much identical to this builder: > http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/antennas.html > > Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:47:52 PM PST US From: Paddy Clarke Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Thursday 19th Leicester Hi Folks, Now the snow has melted and my strip is finally workable, I feel it is time for a DOTH. Looking for somewhere in the midlands with a hard runway, I see there is a voucher in the Pilot for our old favourite Leicester. So how about there at 1200ish on Thursday (19th)? Should the weather not turn out as good as currently forecast, I've got Friday clear too, so we could use that as a backup. All the best, Paddy Paddy Clarke Europa G-KIMM ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:07 PM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Re: Europa-List: Wing close-out panel Hi Lance, Having now read all the emails I noticed that the 5th picture I attached Re Strobe power supply placement shows a wing just before final closing in the process of Neville Eyre: after first stage fitting and subsequent sanding of redux-flox buildup and with tops of aileron mass boxes removed. Maybe a useful illustration. Regards, Jan de Jong ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 04:45:11 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? On Feb 17, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Robert Borger wrote: > FWIW... Absolutely no noise problems with my Whelen strobe power > supply (mounted on the baggage bay bulkhead below "D" door). Power > supply is grounded. Strobe HV lines have shields grounded at the > power supply end and strobe shields are connected through any > connector in the link. Bob, What is your set up for your antenna(s)? Fred A194 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:36 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Jan "> I put a single strobe power supply on the outboard end of each spar with > an access hole below. > The strobes will be uncoordinated, but I keep the high voltage wires > short." Thx. for the reply. Did you run the strobes yet to see if they radiated RFI into the antenna? 108mhz seems bout worst for me. This is pretty much what I saw with my Kuntzleman dual strobe mounted on the starboard baggage bay rib: http://home.hiwaay.net/~langford/antennas.html Ron P. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:53:59 PM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Re: Europa-List: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? Fred, I have a Bob Archer Model 6 big E antenna in the tail with the coax running forward to the center seam then down the fuselage port side seam thence following the fuselage seam to the firewall. I have an AAE VHF-5T mounted vertically on the port side window frame down to the floor with the connector at the fuselage seam and the coax running along the seam forward to the firewall. I have two Bob Archer Model 7 "V" antennas for VHF Nav. One mounted on the bottom of the fuselage aft of the baggage bay with the coax running down the center line to the front of the lower baggage bay where it turns port and runs up the fuselage to the seam and then forward to the firewall. The second is in the area over the baggage bay with the coax running forward to the back door frame where it turns port and down to the fuselage seam then forward to the firewall. Finally, I have a Bob Archer Model 5 Transponder antenna mounted on the port side of the balance arm containment with the coax running down to the bottom and up the side of the fuselage to the seam and forward to the firewall. All the antenna coax run down the port side fuselage seam All electrical stuff runs down the starboard side fuselage seam. Not sure all that is necessary, but it doesn't hurt either. I have not had the opportunity to work with the VORs yet so I can't say how that antenna arrangement works for sure. I hope that helps. Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL Aircraft Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 On Feb 17, 2009, at 18:43, Fred Klein wrote: > > > On Feb 17, 2009, at 2:18 PM, Robert Borger wrote: > >> FWIW... Absolutely no noise problems with my Whelen strobe power >> supply (mounted on the baggage bay bulkhead below "D" door). Power >> supply is grounded. Strobe HV lines have shields grounded at the >> power supply end and strobe shields are connected through any >> connector in the link (eg. fuselage to wings). > > Bob, > > What is your set up for your antenna(s)? > > Fred > A194 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:30 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Anyone have info how they mounted wing tip strobe power supplies? Bob...thanks for all this info...sounds like an exquisite installation...I have a couple questions, inserted and indented below. > I have a Bob Archer Model 6 big E antenna in the tail with the coax > running forward to the center seam then down the fuselage port side > seam thence following the fuselage seam to the firewall. I take it the coax is on the centerline of the "roof" (not the floor) of the fuselage. > I have an AAE VHF-5T mounted vertically on the port side window > frame down to the floor with the connector at the fuselage seam and > the coax running along the seam forward to the firewall. ok > I have two Bob Archer Model 7 "V" antennas for VHF Nav. Why two?...Are you running dual Navs? Are you IFR equipped? (Note: The Aviator's Guide to GPS sez the FAA's phase-out of the whole VOR/DME network is expected to be complete by 2010...or has that been postponed?) > One mounted on the bottom of the fuselage aft of the baggage bay > with the coax running down the center line to the front of the lower > baggage bay where it turns port and runs up the fuselage to the seam > and then forward to the firewall. ok > The second is in the area over the baggage bay with the coax running > forward to the back door frame where it turns port and down to the > fuselage seam then forward to the firewall. Is this antenna superimposed over the coax from the Big E? > Finally, I have a Bob Archer Model 5 Transponder antenna mounted on > the port side of the balance arm containment with the coax running > down to the bottom and up the side of the fuselage to the seam and > forward to the firewall. ok > All the antenna coax run down the port side fuselage seam All > electrical stuff runs down the starboard side fuselage seam. Not > sure all that is necessary, but it doesn't hurt either. better safe than sorry > I have not had the opportunity to work with the VORs yet so I can't > say how that antenna arrangement works for sure. please let us know > I hope that helps. indeed it does, especially for this RF-challenged guy...thanks again Fred A194 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.