Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:19 AM - Re: wing root fairings (craig bastin)
2. 01:45 AM - Alcoholic Mogas (Remi Guerner)
3. 02:13 AM - Re: wing root fairings (Graham Singleton)
4. 02:22 AM - Re: Alcoholic Mogas (craig bastin)
5. 02:35 AM - Re: Alcoholic Mogas (Greg Fuchs)
6. 07:03 AM - Europa project wanted! (David Joyce)
7. 07:51 AM - Re: Europa project wanted! (Garry)
8. 08:13 AM - Re: wing root fairings (Fred Klein)
9. 09:22 AM - Re: wing root fairings (Fred Klein)
10. 09:26 AM - Re: wing root fairings (Robert C Harrison)
11. 10:22 AM - Re: Europa project wanted! (Paul Boulet)
12. 10:52 AM - Re: wing root fairings (Graham Singleton)
13. 12:09 PM - DOTH Wellesbourne Mountford Fri. 27th. (Paddy Clarke)
14. 02:05 PM - Europa project wanted! (David Joyce)
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| Subject: | wing root fairings |
great work fred, I get the impression you are looking at cutting the top
fairing and fitting it to the flap,
just a suggestion, but would it not be easier to just have the flap come up
against the bottom of the
top fairings and sit in a "step" in the bottom fairing. Obviously this would
require a slot in the bottom
fairing for the flap drive tube, but that could be filled with a small inset
that attaches to the tube itself.
As i said great work and this is in no way a critisism of what you have
achieved so far, I simply offer
a suggestion that MAY make life easier come fitting etc. I look forward to
the flight test data from the trike
you mentioned.
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of JR Gowing
Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2009 12:46 PM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: wing root fairings
Fred
Thank you for the inspiring photos......
That is unbelievable work!
JR (Bob) Gowing 327 in Oz
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: Fred Klein
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 12:53 PM
Subject: Europa-List: wing root fairings
<craigb@onthenet.com.au>
Fred you mentioned in the antenna discussions, you have made some more
progress
on wing root fairings. I am sure must of the guys would be interested
in
those pics.
craig
Sure Craig:
The "news" on my fairings follows:
The design remains the same; they mate with the stock fairing at the
spar, and would be able to be easily added to a completed aircraft.
As these photos show, there is now a companion piece which deals with
the underside and tucks under the trailing edge of the stock Europa
fairing...at the trailing edge of the wing (underside) and the leading edge
of the flap. Of course, the airflow in flight is just as interested in the
underside of the wing as it is the upper surface...the more I looked at the
stock situation, the more I realized that something had to be done.
I am currently (very cautiously) trial fitting a set on my aircraft,
attempting to assure that, as the fairing is cut into the portions which
bond to the wing, the flap, and the aft fuselage, the smooth and continuous
curvature is maintained. (Thank God for clecos, hot glue, and tongue
depressors!). Note that the flap drive slot is now covered. I am also
dealing with the issue of air flow over and around the aft portion of the
fairing when the flaps are deployed. Just how to close the volume opened up
when the flaps are deployed and configure the resulting surface is not yet
resolved.
I have shipped a full set (uncut) to a fellow flyer (tri-gear) who is
going to use some magic adhesives and tape to attach them to his wing and
fuselage. (He plans to do some zero flap takeoffs and landings.) He will fly
some specific profiles with and without the fairings so we will have some
idea how they affect performance and efficiency of flight...I'm hoping these
tests will be performed prior to Sun N Fun.
I've been holding back on offering them to builders until I have some
idea of performance. Also, I've wanted to go thru the installation process
so I could write up some recommendations on how to position and install
them.
At this point, it seems clear to me that the positioning of the fairing
can only be accomplished w/ reasonable precision and symmetry when the top
molding is in one piece; thus, I expect to make up the top and bottom
moldings, trim them, mark them for cutting, and ship them so. It will be up
to the builder to do the cutting, make up and fit the flanges, and do the
finishing, etc. They come off the molds pretty smooth, they are within a
gnat's a__ of being perfectly symmetrical, but they are not vacuum-bagged.
Off the molds and trimmed, the upper and lower shells (together) weigh just
under one pound port and starboard.
I will be bringing a fairing to Sun N Fun.
So...that's where things stand at the moment,
Fred
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Hi all,
During the last few days, I tested several samples of Mogas (all
purchased in the Paris area) to determine if they were containing
alcohol. The results are as follows:
95 Unleaded from a supermarket: about 2,5 % alcool
95 Unleaded from a well known brand: about 2,5 % alcool
98 Unleaded from a well known brand: no alcool
For those not familiar with french designation of Mogas, 95 Unleaded is
our basic mogas while 98 is Super.
Rotax says alcool in the fuel should be avoided but tolerates up to 5%
(SI 912-016 R1) so we can assume there is probably no risk with the
engine up to that ratio. I do not think there is a risk either with our
fuel lines as most of us are using automotive hoses designed for mogas.
Same for fuel pumps. But what about the fuel tank which is already
subject to bulging and cracking even without alcool? What about fuel
pressure sensors? Fuel flow sensors?
As more and more alcohol will be introduced in mogas in the near future,
it would be beneficial to all of us to know better about its side effect
on our fuel system.
Looking fwd receiving documented answers from experienced people.
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: wing root fairings |
Fred
they look superb! I can't wait to hear what the performance gain is
Graham
Fred Klein wrote:
> Sure Craig:
>
> The "news" on my fairings follows:
>
> The design remains the same; they mate with the stock fairing at the
> spar, and would be able to be easily added to a completed aircraft.
>
> I am currently (very cautiously) trial fitting a set on my aircraft,
> attempting to assure that, as the fairing is cut into the portions
> which bond to the wing, the flap, and the aft fuselage, the smooth and
> continuous curvature is maintained. (Thank God for clecos, hot glue,
> and tongue depressors!). Note that the flap drive slot is now covered.
> I am also dealing with the issue of air flow over and around the aft
> portion of the fairing when the flaps are deployed. Just how to close
> the volume opened up when the flaps are deployed and configure the
> resulting surface is not yet resolved.
> So...that's where things stand at the moment,
>
> Fred
Message 4
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In case you are not aware the ethanol will only stay in solution with the
petrol up to about 1% water saturation which in theory means your 70 litre
fuel tank could contain 1.7 litres of straight alcohol in the bottom of the
tank if it falls out of solution due to humidity etc. I doubt 1.7 litres
would be enough to do any damage but its worth thinking about.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Remi Guerner
Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2009 7:43 PM
To: Europa-List Digest Server
Subject: Europa-List: Alcoholic Mogas
Hi all,
During the last few days, I tested several samples of Mogas (all purchased
in the Paris area) to determine if they were containing alcohol. The results
are as follows:
95 Unleaded from a supermarket: about 2,5 % alcool
95 Unleaded from a well known brand: about 2,5 % alcool
98 Unleaded from a well known brand: no alcool
For those not familiar with french designation of Mogas, 95 Unleaded is
our basic mogas while 98 is Super.
Rotax says alcool in the fuel should be avoided but tolerates up to 5% (SI
912-016 R1) so we can assume there is probably no risk with the engine up to
that ratio. I do not think there is a risk either with our fuel lines as
most of us are using automotive hoses designed for mogas. Same for fuel
pumps. But what about the fuel tank which is already subject to bulging and
cracking even without alcool? What about fuel pressure sensors? Fuel flow
sensors?
As more and more alcohol will be introduced in mogas in the near future,
it would be beneficial to all of us to know better about its side effect on
our fuel system.
Looking fwd receiving documented answers from experienced people.
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
Message 5
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Remi,
It would be nice to find a station that consistently pumps gas without
alcohol, amidst a sea of others that don't. Here in the States, our regular
fuel is about 87 octane. You must have good fuel.
Rumor has it that the Rotax will eventually be ok'd for ethanolized fuel up
to 10%
Rumor also has it that the Rotax 912 TBO will be bumped up to 2000 hrs.
I heard this on the Ultra-Flight Radio program with Roy Beisswenger. The
speaker (not directly related to Rotax) specified it as an "official rumor",
or something like that.
I am setting up my fuel lines to handle multi-fuel systems. I plan to never
use ethanol fuel, unless in an emergency, but have decided to pretend I am
going to use it, and build accordingly.
>Looking fwd receiving documented answers from experienced people.
That's a bit loaded, isn't it? :-), I have no experience with the poly tank,
but It is widely used in many applications, and is chemically resistant to
most things. I am (here it goes) 'assuming' that it will work well for
alcohol gas. Subject to modification from what others have seen, of course.
Since it is an "official rumor", then I am doing this:
Do not archive
Regards,
Greg 914-XS-Tri (module not quite in, yet---eeks, there are too many small
things to do)
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Remi Guerner
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 1:43 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Alcoholic Mogas
Hi all,
During the last few days, I tested several samples of Mogas (all purchased
in the Paris area) to determine if they were containing alcohol. The results
are as follows:
95 Unleaded from a supermarket: about 2,5 % alcool
95 Unleaded from a well known brand: about 2,5 % alcool
98 Unleaded from a well known brand: no alcool
For those not familiar with french designation of Mogas, 95 Unleaded is our
basic mogas while 98 is Super.
Rotax says alcool in the fuel should be avoided but tolerates up to 5% (SI
912-016 R1) so we can assume there is probably no risk with the engine up to
that ratio. I do not think there is a risk either with our fuel lines as
most of us are using automotive hoses designed for mogas. Same for fuel
pumps. But what about the fuel tank which is already subject to bulging and
cracking even without alcool? What about fuel pressure sensors? Fuel flow
sensors?
As more and more alcohol will be introduced in mogas in the near future, it
would be beneficial to all of us to know better about its side effect on our
fuel system.
Looking fwd receiving documented answers from experienced people.
Regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL
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| Subject: | Europa project wanted! |
I am still looking for a Europa Project (part built or damaged). Would
prefer Tri Gear, but would however consider Tail dragger or Monowheel
under the right circumstances!
rgds
David J
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| Subject: | Re: Europa project wanted! |
David, where are you located?
Garry Stout
Tampa, Florida USA
----- Original Message -----
From: David Joyce
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 2009 9:55 AM
Subject: Europa-List: Europa project wanted!
I am still looking for a Europa Project (part built or damaged). Would
prefer Tri Gear, but would however consider Tail dragger or Monowheel
under the right circumstances!
rgds
David J
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| Subject: | Re: wing root fairings |
On Feb 25, 2009, at 1:28 AM, craig bastin wrote:
> I get the impression you are looking at cutting the top fairing and
> fitting it to the flap,
> just a suggestion, but would it not be easier to just have the flap
> come up against the bottom of the
> top fairings and sit in a "step" in the bottom fairing.
Craig,
Truly...suggestions and feedback are most welcome (as are critiques as
well!). I must admit I'd scratched my head a bit early on, thinking
much like you have...and no doubt your particular suggestion would be
doable...certainly for a trigear, and for a mono as well, as long as
one is not wedded to the standard monowheel trailer. The configuration
shown is designed to limit the amount of projection of that portion of
the fairing which is bonded to the fuselage so as not to conflict w/
the wings when stowed on the trailer.
> As i said great work and this is in no way a critisism of what you
> have achieved so far, I simply offer
> a suggestion that MAY make life easier come fitting etc.
It's certainly possible that an intrepid trigear builder may take the
moldings and do just what you've suggested.
> I look forward to the flight test data from the trike
> you mentioned.
...as do I...
Fred
A194
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| Subject: | Re: wing root fairings |
On Feb 25, 2009, at 2:11 AM, Graham Singleton wrote:
> they look superb! I can't wait to hear what the performance gain is
Graham,
Thank you...I too will be interested to see what gains, if any, emerge
from this endeavor.
Re: photos of a tufted G-KWIP, it certainly appears that with your
less elaborate flap-fairing, the air flow is pretty smooth...though I
see some indications that increasing the vertical radius of the fillet
could be beneficial. The photo w/ the flaps deployed is reassuring.
By any chance, was the stock airframe ever tufted and photographed?
I'd heard some time ago that the Club was pestering Justin Kennedy to
record some performance profiles w/ G-ZTED (classic)...his work on the
fuselage/wing intersection is also quite interesting and inspired me
to take it perhaps one step further. Any chance of getting some flight
data fro Justin?
Fred
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| Subject: | wing root fairings |
Hi! Fred /Craig
Take a look at my flap/wing fairings at www.crix.org.uk
<http://www.crix.org.uk/> under "Bob Harrison G-PTAG"
Regards
Bob Harrison
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein
Sent: 25 February 2009 16:08
Subject: Re: Europa-List: wing root fairings
On Feb 25, 2009, at 1:28 AM, craig bastin wrote:
I get the impression you are looking at cutting the top fairing and
fitting it to the flap,
just a suggestion, but would it not be easier to just have the flap come
up against the bottom of the
top fairings and sit in a "step" in the bottom fairing.
Craig,
Truly...suggestions and feedback are most welcome (as are critiques as
well!). I must admit I'd scratched my head a bit early on, thinking much
like you have...and no doubt your particular suggestion would be
doable...certainly for a trigear, and for a mono as well, as long as one
is not wedded to the standard monowheel trailer. The configuration shown
is designed to limit the amount of projection of that portion of the
fairing which is bonded to the fuselage so as not to conflict w/ the
wings when stowed on the trailer.
As i said great work and this is in no way a critisism of what you have
achieved so far, I simply offer
a suggestion that MAY make life easier come fitting etc.
It's certainly possible that an intrepid trigear builder may take the
moldings and do just what you've suggested.
I look forward to the flight test data from the trike
you mentioned.
...as do I...
Fred
A194
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| Subject: | Re: Europa project wanted! |
Hi David;
I'm selling my Europa at a give away price.- Between career changes and r
aising my family I have no time/money to finish it and fly it.- It's a tr
i gear 914 powered located in Phoenix, AZ.
-
Call me to discuss details and what it needs to be finished.- Or give me
your phone and I'll call you
-
Paul Boulet (310)963-0210
--- On Wed, 2/25/09, David Joyce <stranfaer@btinternet.com> wrote:
From: David Joyce <stranfaer@btinternet.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Europa project wanted!
I am still looking for a Europa Project (part built or damaged). Would pref
er Tri Gear, but would however consider Tail dragger or Monowheel under the
right circumstances!
-
rgds
David J
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: wing root fairings |
Fred Klein wrote:
> -Re: photos of a tufted G-KWIP, it certainly appears that with your
> less elaborate flap-fairing, the air flow is pretty smooth...though I
> see some indications that increasing the vertical radius of the fillet
> could be beneficial. The photo w/ the flaps deployed is reassuring.
>
> By any chance, was the stock airframe ever tufted and photographed?
>
> I'd heard some time ago that the Club was pestering Justin Kennedy to
> record some performance profiles w/ G-ZTED (classic)...his work on the
> fuselage/wing intersection is also quite interesting and inspired me
> to take it perhaps one step further. Any chance of getting some flight
> data fro Justin?
>
> Fred
Hi Fred
Ivan did tuft the standard airframe but he refused to let me see the
pictures ?:-( He did say the standard was better than mine but I find
that kinda hard to believe ;-) .
I don't have a contact for Justin.
Graham
Message 13
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| Subject: | DOTH Wellesbourne Mountford Fri. 27th. |
Hi Folks,
Hopefully it should stay fine 'til the weekend, so how about a DOTH
on Friday. There seem to be no suitable vouchers in the Midlands, so
I suggest we grasp the nettle and pay for Wellesbourne. 1200ish as
usual.
All the best, Paddy
Paddy Clarke
Europa G-KIMM
Message 14
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| Subject: | Europa project wanted! |
Sorry
I should have made clear am in the UK!
rgds
to all
David J
>
> I am still looking for a Europa
> Project (part built or damaged). Would prefer Tri Gear, but would
however
> consider Tail dragger or Monowheel under the right circumstances!
>
>
>
> rgds
>
> David J
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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