Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:56 AM - Re: Cowling mods (Paul Atkinson)
2. 02:03 AM - Intercooler hoses (Frans Veldman)
3. 02:05 AM - Re: mag drop solved (Keith Hickling)
4. 02:07 AM - Intercooler hoses (Frans Veldman)
5. 02:22 AM - Re: Insurance in UK (K.Pilcher)
6. 03:41 AM - Re: Intercooler hoses (Graham Singleton)
7. 03:50 AM - Re: Intercooler hoses (Paul McAllister)
8. 04:06 AM - Re: Intercooler hoses (Frans Veldman)
9. 04:13 AM - Re: Cowling mods (G-IANI)
10. 04:44 AM - Re: Intercooler hoses (Frans Veldman)
11. 04:51 AM - Re: Intercooler hoses (Frans Veldman)
12. 05:52 AM - Cabin Heat Plenum Ideas? (Jeffrey J Paris)
13. 06:14 AM - Re: Intercooler hoses (Graham Singleton)
14. 06:19 AM - FW: NATS (Robert C Harrison)
15. 06:33 AM - Re: Cabin Heat Plenum Ideas? (JEFF ROBERTS)
16. 06:56 AM - Re: Cowling mods (Paul Atkinson)
17. 12:07 PM - Re: Cowling mods (Paul Atkinson)
18. 03:34 PM - Re: How goes flight testing? (Robert Borger)
19. 04:00 PM - Re: Re: How goes flight testing? (Robert Borger)
Message 1
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To all who have asked for the cowling drawing.
I think Andy is planning to send it to me by email but I do not know what
format it is in. I will of course make it available to everyone, if possible
as an attachment to an email.
>From what Andy told me it sounds as though Frans has come up with a design
very similar to the Europa one.
I am wearing my rose tinted spectacles at the moment but it does seem to be
such a good idea that Europa ought to consider taking this on once again.
Paul Atkinson
.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JR Gowing
Sent: 03 March 2009 23:02
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cowling mods
Paul
I hope you post it for everyone to see!
JR (Bob) Gowing 327 in Oz
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Atkinson" <paullatkinson@talktalk.net>
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:46 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cowling mods
> <paullatkinson@talktalk.net>
>
> Frans
>
> You may be interested to know that Europa did some testing of several duct
> positions with a view to producing a mod along the lines of what you are
> doing. The aim being to improve cooling, reduce drag and improve the
> looks.
> Unfortunately it never got produced :-(
> I spoke to Andy Draper today and he is going to send me a drawing of the
> design that worked the best in terms of cooling. I will happily forward it
> to you when I get it.
> Regards
>
> Paul Atkinson
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans Veldman
> Sent: 02 March 2009 20:53
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Cowling mods
>
> Fred Klein wrote:
>
>> Frans...this sounds really interesting...cheers for getting rid of the
>> dog house...how bout some photos?
>
> I guess more people are interested in seeing some preliminary work that
> has
> been done.
> Note that a lot of work still needs to be done. It is a sort of "concept"
> that is ready now.
>
> The idea is to reduce drag, and improve cooling at the same time.
>
> Picture 1: the nasa-ducts in the top cowling. Inside is a deflector
> screen.
> The air is aimed between the front and read cylinders, cooling both
> efficiently and equally. The air is directed to the bottom, so the heated
> air will hopefully not collect in the top cowling. The air outlets
> (inlets?)
> on the side are closed off. If the engine is shut off, the remaining heat
> will find its way out via the nasa ducts which are actually higher than
> the
> side vents.
> Note that the front openings will be used for taxi & landing lights, and
> not
> as an air passage.
>
> Picture 2: the cooling inlet and diffuser for the radiators. The idea is
> here that the frontal area is reduced, the air inlet is in a better
> position
> in the propellor wash (important for cooling on the ground!), and drag is
> lowered because of the diffuser in front of the radiators.
> The area where the original air duct was, has been filled with blue foam,
> and then sanded until it had the shape the cowling should have. A few
> layers
> of bid (inside and outside) to make it strong. Some (a lot?) of filler is
> required to finalize it. The diffuser is also made from blue foam, shaped,
> and with two layers of bid.
>
> Picture 3: closeup of the diffuser. The area inside is funnel shaped with
> a
> round curve, but that is hard to see. Every wall of the diffuser can be
> seen
> as a wing. The air going inside is slowed down by expansion, to match with
> the airflow the radiators can handle.
>
> Picture 4: Underside/rearside of the radiator housing.
> What you are seeing here are actually two air outlets: The opening for the
> radiators is obvious. Directly behind it (towards the camera) is the
> opening
> from the engine bay. Both radiators are in line with each other:
> the oil radiator will only get air that has gone through the water
> radiator.
> I believe that this is a good thing. (The reason that this is sometimes
> done
> differently in the Europa is because of the bad properties of the original
> cooling duct).
> On the bottom panel you can see a hinge. Here will be attached an
> adjustable
> cowl flap. In the cruise position, it will be in a direct line with the
> bottom panel of the radiator housing. It will extend considerably
> rearward,
> where the belly slopes down. The outgoing air will be speed up, and
> hopefully smootlly mix with the air passing the radiator housing because
> it
> has the same speed and direction. If more cooling is required, the flap
> will
> move down, making a greater opening, and causing some vacuum behind the
> flap
> to help the air out. Obviously, in maximum cooling position it will create
> some drag, although it wouldn't be worse than the factory cowling.
> Note that the sides of the radiator housing will not be visible when the
> cowling is finished, as it will overlap the sides of the radiator housing.
> (Problem here of course is that the radiator housing is fixed to the
> fuselage, while the bottom cowling needs to be removable. Am not sure yet
> where exactly the seam will be made).
>
> Picture 6: Here the shape is better to see. If the cowl flap is in place,
> it
> will be in a direct line with the radiator housing, horizontal with the
> flight direction. Because the belly of the cowling slopes down, the air
> going to the exit will be compressed (read: "speed up") somewhat.
> The complete air path is as follows: There is a small opening in front,
> and
> behind the opening is a diffuser which has "wing-shaped" walls that
> increase
> the area, thus slowing the air down. The slower moving air can pass the
> radiators, and after that the air is speed up again, so when the air is
> released, it has the same direction and speed as the surrounding air.
>
> Of course, al this is theory. Because the cooling properties of the
> factory
> cowling are so bad, I believe that it would actually be difficult to make
> it
> worse. So chances are that my cooling at least gives some better cooling
> and
> aerodynamics.
>
> Note that before I started with the Europa I had no experience at all with
> making shapes and working with epoxy. I'm sure that a lot of people can do
> a
> better job than I did, and I'm not really sure how things will look after
> applying filler and sanding. I hope it is going to be ok.
>
> Comments are welcome of course!
>
> --
> Frans Veldman
>
>
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| Subject: | Intercooler hoses |
Hi,
Has anyone in Europa had succes in obtaining the two hoses to connect
the intercooler? Nobody seems to have them, and all internet sites that
have them don't deliver outside the USA.
I noticed that SCAT-hoses nicely fit over the turbo and intercooler
connections, and are lightweight and flexible enough to make the tight
curves necessary. The turbo pressure is not very high, the hoses should
have no problems to handle this. And these hoses are not a really
critical component anyway.
Any thoughts about this?
--
Best regards,
Frans Veldman
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: mag drop solved |
That is correct Kingsley, but the reversed leads were on cylinders 2 and
4, which are 180 degrees apart in firing, so the "second" spark should
still have been just before bottom dead centre - so I think it still
should not have fired on one cylinder with 1 mag. Cylinder 2 should not
have fired with 1 mag and cylinder 4 with the other mag. But it didn't
sound or feel like that.
Regards,
Keith.
----- Original Message -----
From: Kingsley Hurst
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 2009 1:19 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: mag drop solved
Keith,
> Amazing that it ran so well !
No need to feel embarrassed. He who has never made a mistake has
never made anything so thank you for telling us.
Since you say it ran so well, I'm wondering if the spark on each plug
fires on the exhaust stroke as well as the compression stroke. If this
is so, would that be an explanation for its still running okay with the
leads crossed ?
Cheers from Oz
Kingsley
do not archive
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| Subject: | Intercooler hoses |
See:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/ceet.php
--
Best regards,
Frans Veldman
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| Subject: | Re: Insurance in UK |
Hi David
Could I ask what you were quoted please, mine is due soon
Regards
Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 4:38 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Insurance in UK
> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> For those of you who are coming up to insurance renewal, I have just had a
> quotation from Traffords which is 75 lower than any previous one I have
> seen or heard about. Regards, David Joyce G-XSDJ
>
>
>
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| Subject: | Re: Intercooler hoses |
Frans Veldman wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Has anyone in Europa had succes in obtaining the two hoses to connect
> the intercooler? Nobody seems to have them, and all internet sites that
> have them don't deliver outside the USA.
>
> I noticed that SCAT-hoses nicely fit over the turbo and intercooler
> connections, and are lightweight and flexible enough to make the tight
> curves necessary. The turbo pressure is not very high, the hoses should
> have no problems to handle this. And these hoses are not a really
> critical component anyway.
>
> Any thoughts about this?
Frans
there is a problem with SCAT and SCEET hoses. They are not very robust
and if there is any suction in the system the inner fabric can
delaminate and block the hose. There have been one or two accidents
caused by this with Lycosaurus types.
Engine breathing is certainly critical to continued safe flight
Graham
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Intercooler hoses |
Hi Frans,
Try looking at some of the automotive race car suppliers, they all offer a
range of silicon hoses for turbo's and intercoolers. Failing that, if you
want to have a supplier in the US send them to me I will forward them on to
you.
Regards, Paul
On Wed, Mar 4, 2009 at 8:32 PM, Frans Veldman <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>wrote:
> >
>
> Hi,
>
> Has anyone in Europa had succes in obtaining the two hoses to connect
> the intercooler? Nobody seems to have them, and all internet sites that
> have them don't deliver outside the USA.
>
> I noticed that SCAT-hoses nicely fit over the turbo and intercooler
> connections, and are lightweight and flexible enough to make the tight
> curves necessary. The turbo pressure is not very high, the hoses should
> have no problems to handle this. And these hoses are not a really
> critical component anyway.
>
> Any thoughts about this?
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Frans Veldman
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Intercooler hoses |
Graham Singleton wrote:
> there is a problem with SCAT and SCEET hoses. They are not very robust
> and if there is any suction in the system the inner fabric can
> delaminate and block the hose. There have been one or two accidents
> caused by this with Lycosaurus types.
> Engine breathing is certainly critical to continued safe flight
Ah, thanks for the valuable info. I meant with "not critical" that if
they were to blow or leak, I would just lose the boost pressure and be
able to continue flight with natural aspiration. I didn't know that they
could delaminate and subsequently become completely blocked. Thanks!
--
Frans
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>From the conversations I have had with David Stanbridge I am aware that
revising the cowl is one item on his agenda of possible Europa improvements.
I do not know if he has had the information as to what has already been done
by Andy.
David does monitor this forum but, in case he misses it, I will pass on
anything useful to him.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Intercooler hoses |
Graham Singleton wrote:
> there is a problem with SCAT and SCEET hoses. They are not very robust
> and if there is any suction in the system the inner fabric can
> delaminate and block the hose.
I just looked at it, and it appears to me that there are two types, one
with inner fabric and one without inner fabric. I guess the mentioned
problems only apply to the versions with inner fabric? Both versions are
available from ACS.
--
Frans Veldman
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| Subject: | Re: Intercooler hoses |
Paul McAllister wrote:
> Try looking at some of the automotive race car suppliers, they all offer
> a range of silicon hoses for turbo's and intercoolers.
Yes, I'm thinking about forgetting the Gates and Goodyear part numbers,
and just go for "any suitable hose with 90 degrees elbow and the right
diameter". I still do not rule out the SCAT/SCEET hose, if my assumption
is right that the versions without inner fabric are safe to use. The
advantage is these hoses are much lighter, and I have them already as a
left over of my cockpit heater system. ;-)
> Failing that, if
> you want to have a supplier in the US send them to me I will forward
> them on to you.
Thanks! I really appreciate this offer!
--
Frans Veldman
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| Subject: | Cabin Heat Plenum Ideas? |
Dear Europa Airforce,
Does anybody have any wisdom, ideas or pictures regarding what they did in t
erms of heating their cabins? I would think it would be more comfortable to
heat each footwell; Has anybody fabricated a nifty plenum device to accompl
ish the task?
Cheers,
Jeff Paris kit #A012
------------------------------------------------------------
San Diego
Visit sunny San Diego! Click now for great vacation packages!
http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1g0My9YDfnm4NGtzBHqCKsy0UiKGQH2mMR5xGIrglJ
E5pmDG7Ara28/
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Intercooler hoses |
Frans Veldman wrote:
> I just looked at it, and it appears to me that there are two types, one
> with inner fabric and one without inner fabric. I guess the mentioned
> problems only apply to the versions with inner fabric? Both versions are
> available from ACS.
True, but it does get scruffy quite quickly. Wire cuts its way through
the fabric with movement.
Graham
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Hello All,
Forgive the e-mail drop please especially as I suspect most
of
you will have seen this latest appeal.
I thought though to highlight that this website link has a rolling
totaliser
to show just how close we are to seeing the Vulcan in the airshow
circuit
this year:
http://www.vulcantothesky.org/
I have even coaxed a =A350 pledge out of my wife for the cause and that
was
not easy! So anything is possible.
Regards,
Bob Harrison
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heat Plenum Ideas? |
Jeff,
I can help you on this one. Here are a few pictures that explain it
all. The bottom line is you can go to Bud Yearly's sight
www.customflightcreations.com and download this on a PDF document.
Thats what I did then just made a few modifications to it. I ran the
heat from this plenum into the cabin with 2" to a box then 3 - 1" hoses
to the port, starboard, foot-wells and one to the windscreen for
defrosting. Hope these help.
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 176 hours down for annual & Mods
On Mar 4, 2009, at 7:41 AM, Jeffrey J Paris wrote:
>
> Dear Europa Airforce,
>
> Does anybody have any wisdom, ideas or pictures regarding what they
> did in terms of heating their cabins?- I would think it would be
more
> comfortable to heat each footwell; Has anybody fabricated a nifty
> plenum device to accomplish the task?
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff Paris kit #A012
>
> --
> San Diego
> Visit sunny San Diego! Click now for great vacation packages!
> Click Here For More Information
> -
>
>
Message 16
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That is good news. Andy is not sure what info is still with Europa but he
still has some if not all of it on his hard drive and would make it
available to Europa if needed. He also said that the improvement in cooling
was significant but couldn't remember any numbers. The testing was a series
of ground runs on a Yorkshire summer day so possibly not very hot! But a
steady state was reached within limits.
The drawing the he offered me is a CAD one but he is going to email me a
scanned version when he gets a spare minute.
Paul Atkinson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI
Sent: 04 March 2009 12:11
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cowling mods
>From the conversations I have had with David Stanbridge I am aware that
revising the cowl is one item on his agenda of possible Europa improvements.
I do not know if he has had the information as to what has already been done
by Andy.
David does monitor this forum but, in case he misses it, I will pass on
anything useful to him.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com
Message 17
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All
Here is the promised drawing. Andy has also sent a copy to Roger Bull.
Paul Atkinson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI
Sent: 03 March 2009 18:39
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cowling mods
Paul
Obviously everyone is interested in the cowl drawings. Do you know if Andy
is going to send paper or a CAD drawing?
If its paper, I will on behalf of the Club, be happy to digitise it and make
available in a suitable format everyone can use (PDF, JPG etc)
If it is CAD again I am happy to translate it into a usable format.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: How goes flight testing? |
Fellow Europaphiles,
Thought I'd provide an update on the Squawks situation. Tommy, Gary
and I spent several hours on it this afternoon.
On Mar 2, 2009, at 18:36, Robert Borger wrote:
> Squawks:
>
> Have to look at the charging circuit for the battery. The
> alternator is putting out 13.8 volts, but the battery isn't charging.
Didn't get around to testing this one yet. Reason to at bottom...
> Have to get into the brakes and find out why they won't hold over
> 2500 RPM. Might (probably) need bleeding.
Loose fitting. Tightened fitting at master outlet and added brake
fluid. Good. Brakes hold to 4000+ RPM.
> Have to crank down on the friction for the throttle. The springs
> cause the throttle to creep.
Dropped the throttle housing and applied about 1/4 to 1/2 turn to the
nut and now the throttle seems to have plenty of friction. No final
test yet.
> Need to set a better idle stop on the throttle lever. Too easy to
> pull the throttle lower than 1000 RPM while on the ground. <---<<<
> Corrected statement...
Not done yet as we discovered a fuel leak during ground testing and
had to cut all ground testing short (so no resolution on squawk #1 or
#4).
Leak is probably from the input side of the back side of the firewall
fitting. See my build web site, Year #5, Q32 006, pic #2. Probably
that fitting on picture right (Port side from aircraft view). We will
have to raise the aircraft, put it on the reinforced sawhorses, safety
the landing gear down lock and take off the wheel/tire to get to it
and tighten it. When the leak has been fixed, we can return to the
squawk list. May be Saturday before we get to it.
Check six,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
Aircraft Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: How goes flight testing? |
OK, I know, the pic is from the bottom. The leaking fitting is on the
picture left which is also aircraft Port Side.
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
Aircraft Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Mar 4, 2009, at 17:32, Robert Borger wrote:
>
> Fellow Europaphiles,
>
> Thought I'd provide an update on the Squawks situation. Tommy, Gary
> and I spent several hours on it this afternoon.
>
> On Mar 2, 2009, at 18:36, Robert Borger wrote:
>
>> Squawks:
>>
>> Have to look at the charging circuit for the battery. The
>> alternator is putting out 13.8 volts, but the battery isn't charging.
>
> Didn't get around to testing this one yet. Reason to at bottom...
>
>> Have to get into the brakes and find out why they won't hold over
>> 2500 RPM. Might (probably) need bleeding.
>
> Loose fitting. Tightened fitting at master outlet and added brake
> fluid. Good. Brakes hold to 4000+ RPM.
>
>> Have to crank down on the friction for the throttle. The springs
>> cause the throttle to creep.
>
> Dropped the throttle housing and applied about 1/4 to 1/2 turn to
> the nut and now the throttle seems to have plenty of friction. No
> final test yet.
>
>> Need to set a better idle stop on the throttle lever. Too easy to
>> pull the throttle lower than 1000 RPM while on the ground. <---<<<
>> Corrected statement...
>
> Not done yet as we discovered a fuel leak during ground testing and
> had to cut all ground testing short (so no resolution on squawk #1
> or #4).
>
> Leak is probably from the input side of the back side of the
> firewall fitting. See my build web site, Year #5, Q32 006, pic
> #2. Probably that fitting on picture right (Port side from
> aircraft view). We will have to raise the aircraft, put it on the
> reinforced sawhorses, safety the landing gear down lock and take off
> the wheel/tire to get to it and tighten it. When the leak has been
> fixed, we can return to the squawk list. May be Saturday before we
> get to it.
>
> Check six,
> Bob Borger
> Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
> http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
> Aircraft Flying!
> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
> Corinth, TX 76208
> Home: 940-497-2123
> Cel: 817-992-1117
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