---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 03/05/09: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:22 AM - DOTH Sandtoft Friday 6th (Paddy Clarke) 2. 02:15 AM - Re: DOTH Sandtoft Friday 6th (Graham Singleton) 3. 02:43 AM - Intercooler hoses (Remi Guerner) 4. 03:49 AM - Re: DOTH Sandtoft Friday 6th (Ron Jones) 5. 03:58 AM - Re: DOTH Sandtoft Friday 6th (Robert C Harrison) 6. 04:01 AM - Re: DOTH Sandtoft Friday 6th (david park) 7. 09:46 AM - Re: DOTH Sandtoft Friday 6th (Ray) 8. 10:09 AM - Bendix/King KLN90b (Graham Singleton) 9. 12:41 PM - Re: DOTH Sandtoft Friday 6th (Trevpond@aol.com) 10. 03:40 PM - Flap position, Flight testing (Kevin Klinefelter) 11. 07:33 PM - Re: Flap position, Flight testing (craig bastin) 12. 08:07 PM - Re: Flap position, Flight testing (Fred Klein) 13. 10:48 PM - Re: Flap position, Flight testing (Mike Parkin) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:22:43 AM PST US From: Paddy Clarke Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Sandtoft Friday 6th Hi Folks, Hopefully the showers should die down for tomorrow (Friday 6th), so how about a DOTH to Sandtoft?. Voucher in Pilot - 1200ish. Another place up that way with a voucher is Netherthorpe. I've never been there and it looks a bit tight. Could anyone based there, or who knows it well, comment as to its suitability for a future DOTH? All the best, Paddy Paddy Clarke Europa G-KIMM ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:15:41 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Sandtoft Friday 6th Paddy Clarke wrote: > > Hi Folks, > Hopefully the showers should die down for tomorrow (Friday 6th), so > how about a DOTH to Sandtoft?. Voucher in Pilot - 1200ish. > Another place up that way with a voucher is Netherthorpe. I've never > been there and it looks a bit tight. Could anyone based there, or who > knows it well, comment as to its suitability for a future DOTH? > All the best, Paddy > Paddy Clarke > Europa G-KIMM Paddy Netherthorpe should be fine for a Europa, can be muddy but I haven't been there in years. Downhill to the east and north but do able. I did operate my Long EZ there for a couple of years. Not ideal though ;-) Graham ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:43:41 AM PST US From: "Remi Guerner" Subject: Europa-List: Intercooler hoses Frans, >>>>>The turbo pressure is not very high, the hoses should have no problems to handle this <<<<<< SCAT hoses are not designed for handling any pressure. Max relative turbo pressure is around 0.6 bars. I agree this is not very high but I would not use SCAT for that pressure. >>>>>And these hoses are not a really critical component anyway.<<<<<< I do not think so. If the hose downstream of the turbo blows out, then the airbox pressure sensor will sense the cowling ambiant pressure. Then the TCU will widely open the waste gate so that the turbo tries to provide more pressure. Without any back pressure, the turbo will overspeed and possibly fracture with the associated consequences: oil leak and fire. I would not use anything other than glassfiber reinforced rubber hoses similar to what Rotax uses to connect the turbo to the airbox. Hope that helps. Remi Guerner ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:49:48 AM PST US From: "Ron Jones" Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Sandtoft Friday 6th Sorry Paddy, I can't make this one but hope you get lots of support. Netherthorpe is a great place with an excellent cafe but, as Graham says, it's a bit tight using the northerly runway! Regards, Ron. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:58:00 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH Sandtoft Friday 6th Hi! Paddy I'll see you at Sandtoft but by 4X4 transport! Regards Bob H G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Singleton Sent: 05 March 2009 10:13 Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Sandtoft Friday 6th Paddy Clarke wrote: > > Hi Folks, > Hopefully the showers should die down for tomorrow (Friday 6th), so > how about a DOTH to Sandtoft?. Voucher in Pilot - 1200ish. > Another place up that way with a voucher is Netherthorpe. I've never > been there and it looks a bit tight. Could anyone based there, or who > knows it well, comment as to its suitability for a future DOTH? > All the best, Paddy > Paddy Clarke > Europa G-KIMM Paddy Netherthorpe should be fine for a Europa, can be muddy but I haven't been there in years. Downhill to the east and north but do able. I did operate my Long EZ there for a couple of years. Not ideal though ;-) Graham ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:09 AM PST US From: david park Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH Sandtoft Friday 6th This is Dave not Paddy. If you get any more interesting trips let me kmow. Dave From: jron.jones@tiscali.co.uk Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Sandtoft Friday 6th Sorry Paddy=2C I can't make this one but hope you get lots of support. Netherthorpe is a great place with an excellent cafe but=2C as Graham says =2C it's a bit tight using the northerly runway! Regards=2C Ron. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:46:03 AM PST US From: "Ray" Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Sandtoft Friday 6th Paddy I'll give it a go and be in the AT3, plus I'll be bringing along a very frustrated XL-2 owner who is awaiting a(nother) new prop. Ray ---------------------------------------- On Thu, 5 Mar 2009 09:20:46 +0000, "Paddy Clarke" said: > > Hi Folks, > Hopefully the showers should die down for tomorrow (Friday 6th), so > how about a DOTH to Sandtoft?. Voucher in Pilot - 1200ish. > Another place up that way with a voucher is Netherthorpe. I've never > been there and it looks a bit tight. Could anyone based there, or who > knows it well, comment as to its suitability for a future DOTH? > All the best, Paddy > Paddy Clarke > Europa G-KIMM > > > -- Ray raymondwren@fastmail.co.uk ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:09:40 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Bendix/King KLN90b All Hans asked me to post this on the list, his brother Marcel is the new owner of Europa Classic G-BWON, Hans is in Germany building an Ibis, (french woulden canard) Marcel in Holland. Graham "h_zwakenberg" h_zwakenberg@yahoo.com h_zwakenberg Wed Mar 4, 2009 11:12 am (PST) Hi Group, the plans for my IBIS instrument panel have changed, which is why I put my King KLN90B panel mount GPS receiver up for sale. This is your chance to get a TSO'd GPS receiver at considerably reduced costs, check it out: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170308270915 cheers Hans ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:38 PM PST US From: Trevpond@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Sandtoft Friday 6th Sorry Paddy, Under orders to go to Crufts with the Memsab!! regards Trev Pond G-LINN ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:56 PM PST US From: "Kevin Klinefelter" Subject: Europa-List: Flap position, Flight testing Hi All, Flight testing of 914 powered monowheel N211KA is going well (29 hours).I have a flap position question for those who have been there. The aircraft has an irritating left turn in it when flown solo and slight left turn with two up. When trimmed out cruising straight and level the ailerons are close to even with the wing tips and the left flap is noticeably lower relative to it's aileron than the right side, which is almost even with the aileron. I think if I can rig the left flap up even with the aileron it will help cure the left turning problem and be less drag. I thought I might get a new flap hinge arm (FL16) on the left and with the aircraft supported and flaps up in the desired position I could drill new holes thru the lugs on the tourqe tube so the left flap retacted position matches the right. Will this work or is there a better way? Thanks, Kevin... flying and grinning... ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:11 PM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Flap position, Flight testing I think you might run into assymetry issues between the tube and the pins with one hinge arm longer than the other. If you did the alignment of the plates and the two root end flap hinges and all was good you may have the pin in the flap out of position. if thats the case, you could get a machine shop to make a new pin that is eccentric, rather then the longer process of cutting the flap to bits to move the pin a few mm. The other thing is if you correct the cruise issue, what will happen at full flap, will it have a nasty habbit of pulling to the right, or rolling left because of the extra lift on the right wing???? Just a thought. The other thing is maybe... you should look at both flaps, and the clearances, perchance the left flap is hitting inside the wing, thus holding it a few mm down compared to the right wing. I had an issue with that, i ended up removing about 20mm from the from of one flap and reglassing it to get it to fully retract. craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Klinefelter Sent: Friday, 6 March 2009 9:39 AM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Europa-List: Flap position, Flight testing Hi All, Flight testing of 914 powered monowheel N211KA is going well (29 hours).I have a flap position question for those who have been there. The aircraft has an irritating left turn in it when flown solo and slight left turn with two up. When trimmed out cruising straight and level the ailerons are close to even with the wing tips and the left flap is noticeably lower relative to it's aileron than the right side, which is almost even with the aileron. I think if I can rig the left flap up even with the aileron it will help cure the left turning problem and be less drag. I thought I might get a new flap hinge arm (FL16) on the left and with the aircraft supported and flaps up in the desired position I could drill new holes thru the lugs on the tourqe tube so the left flap retacted position matches the right. Will this work or is there a better way? Thanks, Kevin... flying and grinning... ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:07:21 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flap position, Flight testing On Mar 5, 2009, at 3:38 PM, Kevin Klinefelter wrote: > I have a flap position question for those who have been there. Kevin, ...jus sittin here in my armchair, so I am not one of "those who have been there"...but I would suggest that, prior to cutting any metal or replacing any parts, you get your bird back in its cradle, level it up, and very carefully measure everything relevant, cross checking from several reference points, and attempt to determine any deviations from symmetry. Check again with your control surfaces in the position you observe for straight and level flight; measure again. Going thru this exercise could be revealing; when combined with your observed flight characteristics, I would think it would point you towards potential fixes and you could choose the one most easily accomplished. Good luck, Fred A194 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:12 PM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Flap position, Flight testing Kevin, Your symptoms seem to contradict your analysis, or maybe I am completely out to lunch. If the left flap were lower, then the left wing would produce more lift - manifesting itself in a right turn. On my monowheel, there is a slight tendency to roll left when flown solo. With 2 up, the roll disappears. You need to check the flap position using the profile jig that was originally used to set the flap position. Is the wash out correct on both ailerons and flaps. Does the aircraft drop a left wing at the stall? G-JULZ had a nasty wing drop at the stall which was cured by a slight adjustment of the ailerons. The ailerons on my classic wings have a very slight difference in neutral between sat on the ground and loaded in flight. Also, I guess you are using the slip ball to trim out in flight, is the slip ball horizontal set correctly, I fitted a small trim tab to the rudder to make the aircraft 'straighten up and fly right' as the song goes. Could it be a rudder trim problem? Regards, Mike From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig bastin Sent: 06 March 2009 03:41 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Flap position, Flight testing I think you might run into assymetry issues between the tube and the pins with one hinge arm longer than the other. If you did the alignment of the plates and the two root end flap hinges and all was good you may have the pin in the flap out of position. if thats the case, you could get a machine shop to make a new pin that is eccentric, rather then the longer process of cutting the flap to bits to move the pin a few mm. The other thing is if you correct the cruise issue, what will happen at full flap, will it have a nasty habbit of pulling to the right, or rolling left because of the extra lift on the right wing???? Just a thought. The other thing is maybe... you should look at both flaps, and the clearances, perchance the left flap is hitting inside the wing, thus holding it a few mm down compared to the right wing. I had an issue with that, i ended up removing about 20mm from the from of one flap and reglassing it to get it to fully retract. craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Klinefelter Sent: Friday, 6 March 2009 9:39 AM Subject: Europa-List: Flap position, Flight testing Hi All, Flight testing of 914 powered monowheel N211KA is going well (29 hours).I have a flap position question for those who have been there. The aircraft has an irritating left turn in it when flown solo and slight left turn with two up. When trimmed out cruising straight and level the ailerons are close to even with the wing tips and the left flap is noticeably lower relative to it's aileron than the right side, which is almost even with the aileron. I think if I can rig the left flap up even with the aileron it will help cure the left turning problem and be less drag. I thought I might get a new flap hinge arm (FL16) on the left and with the aircraft supported and flaps up in the desired position I could drill new holes thru the lugs on the tourqe tube so the left flap retacted position matches the right. Will this work or is there a better way? Thanks, Kevin... flying and grinning... href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref "http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.