Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:14 AM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_aluminium_alloys? (Carl Pattinson)
2. 01:19 AM - Re: aluminium alloys (Frans Veldman)
3. 02:00 AM - DOTH Halfpenny Green (Wolverhampton) Wed 1st (Paddy Clarke)
4. 02:03 AM - Re: Re: aluminium alloys (Jan de Jong)
5. 02:21 AM - Re: aluminium alloys (Jan de Jong)
6. 07:20 AM - Woodcomp motors (Karl Heindl)
7. 07:55 AM - Re: Woodcomp motors (Frans Veldman)
8. 08:28 AM - Re: AOA question (rampil)
9. 09:34 AM - Re: Woodcomp motors (Karl Heindl)
10. 11:25 AM - Re: Woodcomp motors (Frans Veldman)
11. 07:48 PM - 914 Waste gate servo mounting position question (Paul McAllister)
12. 11:10 PM - wingroot fairing update (Fred Klein)
Message 1
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| Subject: | =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_aluminium_alloys? |
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Corrosion protection is I would say essentail with the alloy components.
Alodine and paint is the home option - alternately anodising.
You will find that the flap points bonded into the wings will start to
corrode at the bond line leading to possible cracks later on. Replacing
these on a finished Europa is a job I would rather not contemplate.
The paint we used (and we primed with Alodine) is starting to chip and there
is evidence of corrosion (aircraft has been flying for 5 years. These are
treated routinely with waxoyl to keep out the moisture (not pretty but
effective) and then periodically cleaned and painted. Alternatively ACF50
corrosion treatment.
The airflow in these areas will soon strip away any chipped paint exposing
the alloy underneath - it doesent take long for corrosion to set in.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jan de Jong" <jan_de_jong@casema.nl>
Sent: Sunday, March 29, 2009 10:51 PM
Subject: Europa-List: aluminium alloys
>
>
> To those who have gone before.
>
> From appearance the following pieces seem to be made of a similar type of
> aluminium:
> OR1, CS01, CS02, CS03, CS07, LG08, LG02, maybe a few more.
> By my guess the type of aluminium is quite corrosion resistant.
> My question: does it pay to go through alodining and painting with these
> pieces?
> How about the exposed parts: OR1 and LG08, LG02?
>
> The Netherlands share the UK climate...
>
> I would be grateful for some definite opinions.
>
> Regards,
> Jan de Jong
> #461
>
>
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Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: aluminium alloys |
Jan de Jong wrote:
> From appearance the following pieces seem to be made of a similar type
> of aluminium:
> OR1, CS01, CS02, CS03, CS07, LG08, LG02, maybe a few more.
> By my guess the type of aluminium is quite corrosion resistant.
I bought my kit unstarted from someone who has had it around for 5 years
or so. I have the kit already a year, this winter practially all of the
aluminium was already assembled, and kept together with the airplane in
my unheated shed with leaking roof. There is a little bit of surface
rust on the landing gear legs (tri-gear) but the aluminium shows no
signs of corrosion at all. Keep in mind that the aluminium has already
been stored for more than 5 years without any protection. It doesn't
seem to corrode by itself. I live in the Netherlands just like you.
After reading some information, and realizing that, when you later
bonding the aluminium in place, you are actually bonding the
protection-layer to the airplane, rather than the bare aluminium (which
is not bad IF the treatment was applied properly, but this would become
another variable to depend your life on), I decided to keep the
aluminium untreated. Treatment always fails at the weakest points, where
bolts go through, and if you really want to make the airplane corrosion
proof, you have to treat every single nut, washer and bolt, hinge, etc.
and keep an eye at all moving parts where the treatment will wear away
(like the inside of the hinges). Also, part of the aluminium was already
installed by the factory (the inboard flap attachment plate for
instance), and it doesn't make sense to have some critical parts
unprotected and going great lengths to protect a few others.
Instead of all this, I plan on keeping the Europa at home. I will build
a small insulated hangar, and install some demoistering device. I also
thought about installing a few resistors at strategical points in the
fuselage and wings, and keep these powered during storage so the small
amount of heat will direct moisure away, but given the fact that I found
no signs of corrosion even after this winters very bad storage, I
skipped this idea.
I'm not a corrosion expert, just my 2 cents.
--
Frans Veldman
Message 3
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| Subject: | DOTH Halfpenny Green (Wolverhampton) Wed 1st |
Hi Folks,
Having got back from skiing and just about recovered from the
collateral damage, I feel the need for a DOTH. So how about Halfpenny
Green on Wednesday ( 1st April)?. 1200 ish, voucher in Pilot.
All the best,
Paddy,
Paddy Clarke
Europa G-KIMM
Do not archive.
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List: aluminium alloys |
Hi Carl,
I do the alodining and epoxy painting on all aluminium bits and with
particular fanaticism where aluminium is bonded into wings and flaps.
Worrysome that the treatment is possibly insufficient.
I was just wondering if I could reasonably make an exception for some
parts like the CS0x (and maybe OR1, LG08, LG02) that to my untrained eye
seem to not need it.
Regards,
Jan
Carl Pattinson wrote:
> <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> Corrosion protection is I would say essentail with the alloy
> components. Alodine and paint is the home option - alternately anodising.
>
> You will find that the flap points bonded into the wings will start to
> corrode at the bond line leading to possible cracks later on.
> Replacing these on a finished Europa is a job I would rather not
> contemplate.
>
> The paint we used (and we primed with Alodine) is starting to chip and
> there is evidence of corrosion (aircraft has been flying for 5 years.
> These are treated routinely with waxoyl to keep out the moisture (not
> pretty but effective) and then periodically cleaned and painted.
> Alternatively ACF50 corrosion treatment.
>
> The airflow in these areas will soon strip away any chipped paint
> exposing the alloy underneath - it doesent take long for corrosion to
> set in.
>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: aluminium alloys |
Frans,
I follow your reasoning, but having the choice did the alodining and
epoxy painting on all bare aluminium sofar. You are right about the
preinstalled wing flap attachments. There may be a virtue though in
limiting the number of vulnerable spots that need special attention.
I definitely plan to keep the Europa ventilated under a roof as well.
Regards,
Jan
Message 6
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I just had another look at the selection of Woodcomp motors I have in my bo
x of 'useless' items.
Two are still in their original packaging. They are very small and were sen
t in error. I have no idea exactly which prop model they would be used on.
The information on the box is : Bosch=2C Skil=2C Dremel. Made in Mexico=2C
2.4/3.6V. The name on all motors is Johnson. So my assumption is that these
motors are made by Johnson=2C and used by at least the 3 named tool manufa
cturers for their power tools. Nothing wrong with that=2C but the claim tha
t their motors are Bosch motors is a little bit misleading.
Karl
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Woodcomp motors |
Karl Heindl wrote:
> I just had another look at the selection of Woodcomp motors I have in my
> box of 'useless' items.
> Two are still in their original packaging. They are very small and were
> sent in error. I have no idea exactly which prop model they would be
> used on.
> The information on the box is : Bosch, Skil, Dremel. Made in Mexico,
> 2.4/3.6V. The name on all motors is Johnson. So my assumption is that
> these motors are made by Johnson, and used by at least the 3 named tool
> manufacturers for their power tools. Nothing wrong with that, but the
> claim that their motors are Bosch motors is a little bit misleading.
Maybe they use a different brand for the 2.4 Volt motors than for the 12
Volt motors?
Anyway, I ordered a Woodcomp prop, so I will take a look inside to see
what's in.
--
Frans Veldman
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: AOA question |
If you look around the web you will find that you can build your own
probe for about $5.00 worth of aluminum and some long (gun barrel)
drill bits.
If you can't find the plans after searching, let me know and I will look it
up
Ira
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=236865#236865
Message 9
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Frans=2C
I was not trying to imply anything about the voltage=2C just passing on som
e information. I have seven Woodcomp motors=2C all are Johnson=2C and all r
un on at least up to 9V. I don't think the controller sends out 12V anyway
=2C but Mark could probably elaborate on that.
My concern is not the voltage=2C but do these motors generate enough torque
to turn the blades at maximum rpm ? Apparently they do=2C because no-one e
lse has reported any failures.
It's just one of those things. I am sure that you will be very happy with y
our propeller.
Karl
> Date: Mon=2C 30 Mar 2009 16:52:27 +0200
> From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp motors
>
l>
>
> Karl Heindl wrote:
>
> > I just had another look at the selection of Woodcomp motors I have in m
y
> > box of 'useless' items.
> > Two are still in their original packaging. They are very small and were
> > sent in error. I have no idea exactly which prop model they would be
> > used on.
> > The information on the box is : Bosch=2C Skil=2C Dremel. Made in Mexico
=2C
> > 2.4/3.6V. The name on all motors is Johnson. So my assumption is that
> > these motors are made by Johnson=2C and used by at least the 3 named to
ol
> > manufacturers for their power tools. Nothing wrong with that=2C but the
> > claim that their motors are Bosch motors is a little bit misleading.
>
> Maybe they use a different brand for the 2.4 Volt motors than for the 12
> Volt motors?
>
> Anyway=2C I ordered a Woodcomp prop=2C so I will take a look inside to se
e
> what's in.
>
> --
> Frans Veldman
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Woodcomp motors |
Karl Heindl wrote:
> I was not trying to imply anything about the voltage, just passing on
> some information. I have seven Woodcomp motors, all are Johnson, and all
> run on at least up to 9V. I don't think the controller sends out 12V
> anyway, but Mark could probably elaborate on that.
The controller uses Pulse Width Modulation. The pulses are 12V, but the
average depends on the setting, i.e. a setting of 50% means that the
motor, for all practical purposes, will see an average of 6 Volts.
> My concern is not the voltage, but do these motors generate enough
> torque to turn the blades at maximum rpm ? Apparently they do, because
> no-one else has reported any failures.
Depends on the blades, the distribution of the load over the blades
(much like the torque required to turn the Europa tailplanes, i.e.
neglectible). Mark warned me that the scimitar blades are more difficult
to turn because of their asymmetrical load. As the scimitar blades offer
no advantages (according to Woodcomp) over the normal blades, I have
choosen the normal blades.
> It's just one of those things. I am sure that you will be very happy
> with your propeller.
I hope so. ;-) It would be nice if one could just swap a propeller
during flight for comparison. If my Europa turns out to perform well,
there are a dozen of things that could be the cause, it wouldn't be easy
to contribute that to a single item. And of course, it could well be
possible that it is going to be a dog.
--
Best regards,
Frans Veldman
Message 11
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| Subject: | 914 Waste gate servo mounting position question |
Hi All,
I am attempting to "shoe horn" in a second Grand Rapids EFIS screen into my
panel which is turning into an mechanical challenge. It is pretty much
looking like I am going to have to move it to the outside of the firewall.
I know a few folks have done this and provided cooling with a blast tube. I
was wondering if anyone had some photographs and best practices to share.
Thanks, Paul
Message 12
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| Subject: | wingroot fairing update |
Guys...a couple more pixs to update those posted on Feb. 24th.
In the 1st, the top fairing has been cut into 3 pcs, flanges added,
and everything clecoed back in place.
The 2nd shows the same on the lower fairing; upper and lower have been
floxed and taped together along the elliptical trailing edge.
The 3rd & 4th pixs, w/ flaps partially extended, show the closure
panels on both flap and fuselage, necessary to close the voids which
would otherwise be open to the airflow as the flaps deploy. As you can
see, my fuselage cradle restricts flap extension. The closure panel on
the flap (#3) really stiffened up the innermost corner of the
underside of the curved flap extension which otherwise would have been
flapping in the breeze. The whole thing is now rock-solid, except for
the forward piece which stays with the wing and will flex much like
the standard wing fairing under flight loads. These last two pixs also
show no more clecos as the pieces are now bonded to flap and fuselage.
The deployment/retraction action is smooth and the joints passed
inspection. It's all still pretty rough, but I don't anticipate any
problems finishing and feathering everything into the fuselage.
All this piecing is necessary only to allow for wing stowage on the
standard monowheel trailer...I now have 8 different moulds for the
requisite parts port & starboard.
No performance data as yet, but Jeff B. is still planning on doing
some flight tests w/ the fairings mounted on his trigear, Baby Blue.
Anyone with an interest in replicating or installing some version of
these can contact me off list. Check out also my matronics-photoshare
dated Aug 9, 2008:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/fklein@orcasonline.com.07.21.2008/
Fred
A194
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