---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/04/09: 12 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:11 AM - Re: Cowl Question? (Robert C Harrison) 2. 01:54 AM - Re: Engine oil leak update (Duncan & Ami McFadyean) 3. 03:10 AM - Re: Cowl Question? (John Cliff) 4. 03:14 AM - Insight Strikefinder (Euronut) 5. 04:43 AM - Re: Cowl Question? (Robert C Harrison) 6. 06:28 AM - Fly In 21.05.2009 (UVTReith) 7. 09:41 AM - Generator Light (Mike Parkin) 8. 12:38 PM - Re: Generator Light (craig bastin) 9. 05:12 PM - Mounting the Rudder (Fred Klein) 10. 06:39 PM - Re: Mounting the Rudder (craig bastin) 11. 07:42 PM - Re: Mounting the Rudder (ALAN YERLY) 12. 09:00 PM - Re: Mounting the Rudder (Fred Klein) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:34 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cowl Question? Hi! Jim. I have to concur with Jeffrey. My 3300 installation was the first and the UK agent had made a "plug" to fit a 2200 engine down to the Europa Firewall. Obviously I had to extensively change the front to suit the 3300 and I did lots of experimenting with Eyebrows and "underbrows" and also a top scoop. The biggest factor and so important is to arrange for the sump cooling fins to get dedicated air to exit right out the rear cowl bottom. Your whole effort must go to ensuring top cowl pressure is forcing cold air downwards through and across the engine completely against the physics of hot air rising. You may get some ideas from my ( defunct cowl since I have a Rotax 914 now) by looking at http://www.crix.co.uk Not necessarily repeatable without the close to spinner MT CS Blades/paddles ! You may see that the sump then oil cooler are ducted and dedicated, finishing up in a collector manifold under the muffler with butterfly connections to both foot wells or exit to waste out the back. I could fry the P2 position by collecting this heat for cabin . But you have just got to keep this high pressure air out of the lower cowl and in the duct to allow the main downward cooling air to do it's job through the heads and barrel fins. I also devised a way to switch off the oil circulating through the cooler since with the cooler constantly in the circuit the oil never got to acceptable temperature levels...But had to extend the slot in the ball valve to ensure that on switchover there was always adequate pressured oil to the engine. This was by a mechanical push pull lever to the P1 position. Manifold and oil switch all displayed on the above web site (I just checked!) I personally wouldn't wish to go that way again especially all at my expense with no assistance from the distributor. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG ex 3300 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of jimpuglise@comcast.net Sent: 03 April 2009 23:04 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cowl Question? Jeff- The original cowling was designed for the Rotax, which was the engine of choice for the original airplane. I also have a Jab. and have the Jab. FWF kit. Trying to modify the original cowling to fit the Jab. would be a very extensive project. By far, your best bet is going to be to use the Jab. kit. For starters, the Jab. is a bit longer than the Rotax and you would need to account for that, as well as the vastly different cooling. Your best sources will be Bud or John Lawton. Jim Puglise A-283 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeffrey J Paris" Sent: Friday, April 3, 2009 5:35:12 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Europa-List: Cowl Question? Dear Europa List , I have a question for the Europa List. I have attached a picture of our original Europa Classic cowl (rotax) and naturally it doesn't mate up with the Jab3300. With this in mind has anybody out there in Experimental Europa/Jabiru land modified the original cowl to fit the JAB? I have pictures of John Lawton's Europa N245E and I assume the cowling came from Jabiru USA ? And of course looks fantastic, however, I find the original look of the Europa intriquing and full of "english" personality! I like its big nose and hedgehog charm. I just thought I would check to see if it had been done. It would take a great deal of modification to the air inlets and a quite a curvey nacelle would have to be fabricated to make it work: And of course this brings up issues with proper airflow and cooling of the equipment. So far with our current JAB we have had to wrestle with some cooling issues and it seems that cowl design can be a fairly prickly issue...a black art for me at least. Thanks for your time and consideration, Cheers! Jeff Paris #A012 Peter Paris _____ Photography School Free information on becoming a Photographer. Click Now! Click Here For More Information ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:54:04 AM PST US From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Engine oil leak update Paul, You got away lightly with that repair. Crankcase fretting was a problem common to a small batch of 912 engine numbers, to the extent that Rotax would offer a replacement casing, which otherwise costs GBP3,000 (or USD4,500 at Lockwood) I understand that the fretting occurs mostly around the centre main bearing support. The same thing happens in VW cases. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul McAllister To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, April 03, 2009 11:56 PM Subject: Europa-List: Engine oil leak update Hi all, I just wanted to give you an update on my Rotax leaking crankcase. About a year ago I saw a small oil leak start on the engine just behind the gearbox on the flat machined surface on top of the engine. After a while the leaking area started to slowly progress along the case towards the back of the engine and then along the bottom. While I was at the Oshkosh airshow I went and talked to the mechanic from Kodiak to get his opinion. He told me that some 912 / 914's were getting crankcase fretting and over time the cases were damaged to such an extend that they had to be replaced. His advice to to have the engine stripped and inspected. Well this winter I removed the engine and took it to Leading Edge Airfoil who has a rotax trained A&P on staff. He stripped the engine and sure enough it was showing signs of fretting. The engine has about 750 hours on it at the moment. Fortunately it was not too bad and he was able to dress the cases and re assemble the engine. He used a different sealant, 5150 I believe it was called instead of the red Locktite sealant that was on before. He tells me that Rotax now specify this sealant. It is a heavier material and apparently is swells a little after application, perhaps from heat, I am not sure. He felt confident that this would tighten things up and I should not have any problems. A couple of other things to note, at 750 hours there was no sign of wear in any part of the engine. The only thing he mentioned was a slight scuff on a cam follower that would have been from not priming the engine properly after an oil change. I remember exactly when I did that ! He as able to polish it out. There was a little bit of oil flashing on some of the piston skirts and he told me that this was from using either mineral or semi synthetic. I have been using the recommended Penzol motorcycle oil although this has dropped off the list in recent times, so I changed to the Valvoline Durablend. He was strongly recommending I go to a full synthetic oil. He also wanted me to stop using the Challenger oil filters, he tells me that they have less pleats in them. The only other thing of note was the Turbo charger bracket was broken. So it would appear that Kodiak was right and if I hadn't had this work done I would have lost the cases. While he had it apart he overhauled the gearbox which was due, replaced the plugs, and the rubber boots on the carburettors, so my oil leak repair came to 3900 dollars. Ouch. Rotax really have no shame, the gasket set is over a 1000 dollars for something that has a trivial manufactured cost but there is little that any of us can do about that matter. The aircraft is going to be a little while before it is flying again, I have decided to take a crack at some cooling modifications while it is all apart. Paul ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:10:03 AM PST US From: John Cliff Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cowl Question? Robert C Harrison wrote: > > > > You may get some ideas from my ( defunct cowl since I have a Rotax > 914 now) by looking at _http://_www.crix.co.uk > Not necessarily repeatable without the > close to spinner MT CS Blades/paddles ! > Actually http://www.crix.org.uk John Cliff #0259 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:14:17 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Insight Strikefinder From: "Euronut" Has anyone fitted a 'Strikefinder' in a Europa? If so where did you mount the antenna? I know they have been fitted in other composite aircraft. Ideally I would like to mount the antenna before I bond on the top. OK, I know I am slow having kit 353 but I have excuses. Thanks Tony[/list] Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:26 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cowl Question? Yes! John thanks for the "heads up" I noticed it when I checked if it was still there but then forgot to change it on the msg!.. Short term memory gets to be a pain ! Now's a good time to thank you for leaving the web page up ..very kind of you. Regards Bob Harrison. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cliff Sent: 04 April 2009 11:07 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cowl Question? Robert C Harrison wrote: > > > > You may get some ideas from my ( defunct cowl since I have a Rotax > 914 now) by looking at _http://_www.crix.co.uk > Not necessarily repeatable without the > close to spinner MT CS Blades/paddles ! > Actually http://www.crix.org.uk John Cliff #0259 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:20 AM PST US From: "UVTReith" Subject: Europa-List: Fly In 21.05.2009 Hi Europa Family, Herewith I would like to invite for a nice Fly-In to my airfield EDKW. Please see attached info sheet. This Fly-In could be also a first stop for the Kyritz-Peenemunde Group. As we are talking here about Germany, I guess that our friends from the other end of the world can not join us. Sorry about that, I would like to see you too. All the Best, Bruno Reith / UVT Reith europa-aircraft-germany ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:41:52 AM PST US From: Mike Parkin Subject: Europa-List: Generator Light A simple question but my aircraft has not flown for 2 years.- I cannot remember if the generator/charging light comes on when power is turned on or not.- My 914 is wired as shown in the manual.- There is power on the C pin of the connecting plug and if I earth the L pin of the plug the light comes on, but not when plugged into the rectifier/regulator.- Does the alternator have to be rotating ?- or have I got the dreaded Ducati regulator failure. If so any ideas???- Who is the cheapest UK supplier? regards, Mike ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:38:20 PM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Generator Light normal setup for most reg's is to allow current to pass to earth when voltage drops low, ie ignition on engine not running, the bias in reg diode changes as voltage comes up preventing the light from coming on as it cant get to earth. not having used a duke reg I couldnt comment on that -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Parkin Sent: Sunday, 5 April 2009 2:40 AM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Europa-List: Generator Light A simple question but my aircraft has not flown for 2 years. I cannot remember if the generator/charging light comes on when power is turned on or not. My 914 is wired as shown in the manual. There is power on the C pin of the connecting plug and if I earth the L pin of the plug the light comes on, but not when plugged into the rectifier/regulator. Does the alternator have to be rotating ? or have I got the dreaded Ducati regulator failure. If so any ideas??? Who is the cheapest UK supplier? regards, Mike ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:12:07 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Europa-List: Mounting the Rudder ...just as an aside, the concept of "trial fitting"...the time and the number of repetitions required...is something I had no real appreciation for at the beginning of my Europa adventure... Regarding the rudder, I notice that the flange which receives the hinges is significantly thinner than the assembly of the molded FG vertical fin along with the starboard flange of the sternpost, an assembly which also receives the rudder hinge leaves. The manual talks about relieving the starboard flange assembly locally for the "hinge pivot" but sez nothin bout removing enough of the thickness of the assembly in such a way which would allow for the fin and starboard rudder surfaces to be in the same plane, unless one were to add a significant amount of filler. I'm tempted to remove portions of the starboard flange of the sternpost just a tad larger than the area of the hinge leaves; then add and overlap onto the sternpost the 2 layers of BID upon which will rest the hinges. Please (anyone) advise if doing this is not a good thing...or alternative methods for dealing with what must be an issue with every XS. Thanks, Fred A194 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:39:36 PM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mounting the Rudder I believe they are referring to the "joggle" areas of the stern post, when the manual calls for removal of the fibreglass where it ends up 3 layers thick. otherwise you will have trouble getting the swing to port, and the hinge wont sit flat either. That was all i removed and reglassed and it worked nicely. craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fred Klein Sent: Sunday, 5 April 2009 10:07 AM Subject: Europa-List: Mounting the Rudder ...just as an aside, the concept of "trial fitting"...the time and the number of repetitions required...is something I had no real appreciation for at the beginning of my Europa adventure... Regarding the rudder, I notice that the flange which receives the hinges is significantly thinner than the assembly of the molded FG vertical fin along with the starboard flange of the sternpost, an assembly which also receives the rudder hinge leaves. The manual talks about relieving the starboard flange assembly locally for the "hinge pivot" but sez nothin bout removing enough of the thickness of the assembly in such a way which would allow for the fin and starboard rudder surfaces to be in the same plane, unless one were to add a significant amount of filler. I'm tempted to remove portions of the starboard flange of the sternpost just a tad larger than the area of the hinge leaves; then add and overlap onto the sternpost the 2 layers of BID upon which will rest the hinges. Please (anyone) advise if doing this is not a good thing...or alternative methods for dealing with what must be an issue with every XS. Thanks, Fred A194 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 16:53:00 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:50 PM PST US From: "ALAN YERLY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mounting the Rudder Fred, It is as Craig said. Only remove the area where the dumb joggle juts out and interferes with the hinge. The lower section is very thick and if you did not clamp your stern post in tight, it tends to be 3/16 of an inch thick. I just fill in the rudder area and blend. Life is too short. Cutting the stern post would weaken the area somewhat, but proper reapplication of plies would make a significant reduction in the thickness. Just a thought. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Klein To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 8:06 PM Subject: Europa-List: Mounting the Rudder > ...just as an aside, the concept of "trial fitting"...the time and the number of repetitions required...is something I had no real appreciation for at the beginning of my Europa adventure... Regarding the rudder, I notice that the flange which receives the hinges is significantly thinner than the assembly of the molded FG vertical fin along with the starboard flange of the sternpost, an assembly which also receives the rudder hinge leaves. The manual talks about relieving the starboard flange assembly locally for the "hinge pivot" but sez nothin bout removing enough of the thickness of the assembly in such a way which would allow for the fin and starboard rudder surfaces to be in the same plane, unless one were to add a significant amount of filler. I'm tempted to remove portions of the starboard flange of the sternpost just a tad larger than the area of the hinge leaves; then add and overlap onto the sternpost the 2 layers of BID upon which will rest the hinges. Please (anyone) advise if doing this is not a good thing...or alternative methods for dealing with what must be an issue with every XS. Thanks, Fred A194 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:00:25 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mounting the Rudder Craig and Bud...thanks for the replies...and I agree that life is too short! Yes I understand about cutting the joggles where they conflict w/ the rudder swing and/or hinge leaves. I had been thinking of the rudder flange as being/functioning just like the aileron flanges...w/ the ailerons, of course, the idea is to have the surface of the flange in the same plane as the surface of the wing at the rear closeout...not so easy to do w/ the rudder and the abutting surface of the fin on the starboard side. My point is that because of the difference in thickness between the rudder flange (where one hinge leaf sits) and the sternpost + fin skin (where the other hinge leaf sits)...the starboard surface of the rudder will not be in the same plane as the surface of the fin...it will be offset by whatever the difference in thickness of the two components. I don't see that as necessarily being a problem...especially if one can split the difference and end up w/ the planes of fin skin and rudder on both sides being offset equally. What I didn't understand was whether the goal was to keep the starboard side of fin and rudder in one plane...or split the difference? Bud...what I'm taking away from your response is to NOT cut out the sternpost flange to provide a seat for the hinge leaves, and the planar issues I describe are unimportant, as long as everything is straight and true. Fred On Apr 4, 2009, at 7:35 PM, ALAN YERLY wrote: > Fred, > It is as Craig said. Only remove the area where the dumb joggle > juts out and interferes with the hinge. > The lower section is very thick and if you did not clamp your stern > post in tight, it tends to be 3/16 of an inch thick. > I just fill in the rudder area and blend. Life is too short. > Cutting the stern post would weaken the area somewhat, but proper > reapplication of plies would make a significant reduction in the > thickness. > > Just a thought. > > Bud > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Fred Klein > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 8:06 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Mounting the Rudder > > > ...just as an aside, the concept of "trial fitting"...the time and the > number of repetitions required...is something I had no real > appreciation for at the beginning of my Europa adventure... > > Regarding the rudder, I notice that the flange which receives the > hinges is significantly thinner than the assembly of the molded FG > vertical fin along with the starboard flange of the sternpost, an > assembly which also receives the rudder hinge leaves. > > The manual talks about relieving the starboard flange assembly locally > for the "hinge pivot" but sez nothin bout removing enough of the > thickness of the assembly in such a way which would allow for the fin > and starboard rudder surfaces to be in the same plane, unless one were > to add a significant amount of filler. > > I'm tempted to remove portions of the starboard flange of the > sternpost just a tad larger than the area of the hinge leaves; then > add and overlap onto the sternpost the 2 layers of BID upon which will > rest the hinges. > > Please (anyone) advise if doing this is not a good thing...or > alternative methods for dealing with what must be an issue with every > XS. > > Thanks, > > Fred > A194 > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner, and is > believed to be nbsp; Features Chat, http://www.matronnbsp; > via the Web title=http://forums.matronics.com/ href="http://forums.matronics.com > ">http://forums.matronics.com > _p; generous bsp; title=http://www.matronics.com/contributionhref= > "http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c================ > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.