Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:15 AM - Re: Aileron setting and more (Brian Davies)
2. 02:33 AM - Bungee replacement (RoddyEuropa@aol.com)
3. 02:49 AM - Re: Trim Damper Assembly (Raimo Toivio)
4. 03:06 AM - Re: Aileron setting and more (Graham Singleton)
5. 05:34 AM - Re: Jabiru Cowls (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
6. 06:36 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 04/15/09 (Twigg, Alan)
7. 06:53 AM - Insurance by Sirius (Sidsel og Svein Johnsen)
8. 08:40 AM - Updated Sun N Fun Europa Attendee list (Erich Trombley)
9. 10:39 AM - Re: Trim Damper Assembly (G-IANI)
10. 11:07 AM - bonding top wing panel (Fred Klein)
11. 11:23 AM - Re: Updated Sun N Fun Europa Attendee list (rampil)
12. 01:07 PM - propeller torque (Frans Veldman)
13. 01:44 PM - SV: propeller torque (Sidsel og Svein Johnsen)
14. 02:23 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Cowls (Graham Singleton)
15. 03:25 PM - Re: Matronic on the Europa Forum (SteveD)
16. 10:19 PM - Re: SV: propeller torque (Frans Veldman)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Aileron setting and more |
Hi Bruno,
>From bitter experience (many wasted hours) I would recommend reading the
latest factory build manual pages and following it to the letter. Provided
you do every stage of the aileron rigging process, it will describe how to
make adjustments to obtain the correct angles. Setting the disconnect
plates vertical to a centre line drawn between the wing spar pins and
adjusting the individual aileron up stops correctly before fitting the wings
to the plane provides a good starting point. Get these angles wrong and
nothing works as it should.
Regards
Brian Davies
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of UVTReith
Sent: 15 April 2009 11:41
Subject: Europa-List: Aileron setting and more
Hi Europa Family,
At present I am working on fine trimming, weight and balance etc.
When I measured the angles of my ailerons, they are quite different and need
correct setting.
How can I do the adjustments of this?
Thanks for help.
Best Regards,
Bruno Reith / UVT Reith
XS Mono
06:34:00
Message 2
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| Subject: | Bungee replacement |
In a message dated 15/04/2009 13:19:05 GMT Daylight Time,
raimo.toivio@rwm.fi writes:
I think you would really struggle to raise the undercarriage if the bungee
broke - but no real issue because there would be no problem getting it
down!
A spring would have prevented a problem I found this winter - something,
mice I think, had stripped off much of the fibre covering of the bungee,
leaving the rubber strands exposed. Not obvious to see.
But the good news was that it was easier to replace - with firewall in
place - than I expected. Took about 2 hours start to finish, which was much
better than I dared to hope. You have to take out the suspension block and it
helped to hoist the plane up high. Adjusting a slightly under tension
bungee would be easier still.
Roddy Kesterton
G-IKRK #220
So, if you loose it, no worries.
I think mono is still retractable w/o bungee and if not - so what?
Coming back to my original question:
I cannot see any obvious problem if changing bungee to spring.
Spring could be more permanent solution, easier to adjust and optimize and
no time period.
Probably spring is heavier than bungee anyway and more expensive solution
also.
For example I would like to have my bungee more powerful.
It is quite easy to retract but that exercise is not sophisticated enough
(!).
Definetely I am not going to tighten it up because of hard labor.
Too taut bungee is probaly giving upp earlier.
So professors - how is a spring???
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Trim Damper Assembly |
Hi Fred
I did it as follows:
According my building diary, 2nd February 2003 I purchased a simple fish scale
(I hate fishing), connected it to the bellcrank TS03 by 90 degrees. I adjusted
the damper unit until it gave up exactly when there was a force 4,5 kg = 10 lbs
when I pulled the fish scale. I do not remember from where I got this tip to
complete the task. I assume 4,5 kg is a medium size fish!
That was the first and last time all together I use fish scale in my life time.
That scale is in my buiding museum now.
I confirm my stabs have done their job well.
Raimo OH-XRT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Trim Damper Assembly
>
> All,
>
> Before bonding on the top, I want to be certain that the Trim Damper
> Assembly is properly adjusted, particularly w/ respect to the amount
> of friction when it moves in the slot in TS01. As far as I can tell,
> the Build Manual does not address this question, yet it would appear
> to be key to having the pitch control system function properly without
> burning up the pitch trim motor. I can't seem to get my mind around
> the function of this seemingly elaborate confusion of spring, tube,
> thru bolt, and nuts of various sizes...it's complexity suggests that,
> when properly adjusted, it performs a critical function.
>
> I reference Fig. 2, p. 19-2, and Step 4 & Fig. 6 on p. 19-4.
>
> Can anyone please enlighten me on what proper adjustment would be?
>
> Thanks in advance,
>
> Fred
>
> --
> This message has been scanned for viruses and
> dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
> believed to be clean.
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron setting and more |
Brian Davies wrote:
> Hi Bruno,
>
> From bitter experience (many wasted hours) I would recommend reading
> the latest factory build manual pages and following it to the letter.
> Provided you do every stage of the aileron rigging process, it will
> describe how to make adjustments to obtain the correct angles.
> Setting the disconnect plates vertical to a centre line drawn between
> the wing spar pins and adjusting the individual aileron up stops
> correctly before fitting the wings to the plane provides a good
> starting point. Get these angles wrong and nothing works as it should.
>
> Regards
>
> Brian Davies
Bruno
Brian is right. Start by setting the up stop at the aileron, go for
23!/2 degrees, then move down the wing from there.
Bud gave a very good description of the process a few weeks ago.
Graham
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Cowls |
Hey Guys,
Back in January I spoke with Jim McCormick of Jabiru Pacific regarding some
rubber goods for my 3300. Off hand he mentioned that he has access to the
molds Andy Silvester used to have the Jabiru/Europa cowls made that I
purchased from Andy back in 2005. IIRC, the guy who has the mold and made the
cowls is a boat builder in Canada. I met him briefly when I picked up my
engine from Andy, but I don't recall his name.
Anyway, Jim told me that if there was enough interest he would consider
offering cowls and a FWF kit for the Europa. I sent him a disk with info
regarding my FWF and told him I thought there would probably be significant
interest if someone were to offer a Jabiru FWF for the Europa.
FWIW, I'm very pleased with my cowls. I have had to make a few minor
modifications to the lower cowl to get the engine to run cool in climb, but
otherwise I'm very pleased with the cowl set. The quality is excellent and I
really like the looks of the longer cowling. Incidentally, my Europa has been
mistakenly identified as a Lancair on several occasions now by other pilots
at various places I've visited.
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
N245E - Flying
**************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the
web. Get the Radio Toolbar!
(http://toolbar.aol.com/aolradio/download.html?ncid=emlcntusdown00000003)
Message 6
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| Subject: | RE: Europa-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 04/15/09 |
Alan Twigg
Some time ago David Joyce (2) was after a Europa Fuselage, I may have
located one if you are still interested, Tri gear. Call Mobile 07747
843471
Regards Alan Twigg
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Europa-List
Digest Server
Sent: 16 April 2009 07:58
Subject: Europa-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 04/15/09
*
=================================================
Online Versions of Today's List Digest Archive
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two Web Links listed below. The .html file includes the Digest
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plain ASCII version of the Europa-List Digest and can be viewed with a
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HTML Version:
http://www.matronics.com/digest/digestview.php?Style=82701&View=html&Cha
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===============================================
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Europa-List Digest Archive
---
Total Messages Posted Wed 04/15/09: 18
----------------------------------------------------------
Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:12 AM - Re: Mod 70 (nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk)
2. 12:18 AM - Re: Mod 70 (nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk)
3. 01:57 AM - Was Re: Mod 70.... Now my ramblings on my trike nose
wheel set up. (Robert C Harrison)
4. 02:41 AM - Re: Mod 70 (Tim Houlihan)
5. 03:42 AM - Aileron setting and more (UVTReith)
6. 04:40 AM - Re: Michigan Airports (h&jeuropa)
7. 05:18 AM - Re: Mod 70 (Raimo Toivio)
8. 06:04 AM - Re: Mod 70 (Karl Heindl)
9. 07:52 AM - Re: pitot tube connectors (rampil)
10. 09:18 AM - Mono Undercarrige Spring vs Bungee (Erich Trombley)
11. 10:39 AM - Trim Damper Assembly (Fred Klein)
12. 01:39 PM - Pictures Needed! (Jeffrey J Paris)
13. 03:05 PM - Re: Pictures Needed! (Tom Friedland)
14. 03:35 PM - Re: Pictures Needed! (Robert C Harrison)
15. 03:53 PM - Re: Pictures Needed! (Bob Berube)
16. 04:20 PM - Re: Pictures Needed! (jimpuglise@comcast.net)
17. 07:44 PM - Re: Pictures Needed! (William McClellan)
18. 11:38 PM - Re: Trim Damper Assembly (Frans Veldman)
________________________________ Message 1
_____________________________________
Time: 12:12:16 AM PST US
From: "nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk" <nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
I had a look at this and decided that it was probably not practical. The
re ason is because the tension on the bungee cord is relatively constant
from the gear being fully up to fully down. This would be difficult to
achieve w ith the limited length and extension of a conventional spring.
The only way I could see it working is if the geometry was arranged so
that the moment arm increased as the gear was raised. Space is quite
limiting in this area so I gave up at this point
Nigel Charles.
----Original Message----
From: rlborger@mac.com
Subj: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
Raimo,
My understanding from discussions with Nev is that the spring reaction
of a metal spring is incorrect for this application.
Bob B
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 14, 2009, at 11:19, Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
Bud and all
is there any mod that replaces bungee to spring(s) in mono?
I read Curtis Jaussi=C2=B4s earlier message carelessly and thought there
is but understood later he has a trike and has replaced trike=C2=B4s
bungee to springs.
Raimo OH-XRT
----- Original Message -----
From: ALAN YERLY
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 3:12 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
Curtis...
If you built the mass balance arm properly and didn't bugger up the
holes o r have a tail wheel type, the original mass balance arm seems to
be holding up. But over time, side play will wallow out the 3/16 holes
and that is w hat we were concerned about.
I hope you have a good sized access hole. If you do, it takes 2-4
hours d epending on turnbuckles, cables, your tower width, etc. Pretty
much a no b rainer.
The new part is properly made and will serve many years without fail.
If y ou install the TP18 butterfly attachment for the cables it takes 4
hours.
So cut the old cables, pull out the arm with weights. Assemble the new
arm on the bench. Rig up a small turnbuckle from A/C Spruce and throw
the thi ng in. As for the phenolic parts, I use #8 screws as they
countersink easi er. I use a dab of double back sticky tape to set the
rub strip where I wa nt it then add just a dab of slow setting thick
superglue, check it again a nd hit it with the accellerator. I have an
angle drill that makes the prem ade holes I make easy to do by feel.
Insert the nuts and screws, and pull down. I have some one handed
gimicks I use like a cut off stubby screwdriv er that wedges into the
post slot and holds the screw. Then I put on the n ut and crank her
down.
Call me when you need one.
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations (813) 653-4989
Europa Dealer
Subject: Europa-List: Mod 70
From: cjaussi@gmail.com
I'm just getting back to getting N6125 in the air again after a couple
of y ears away from flying. I am upgrading the engine to a Jason Parker
914 tur bo, fuel injected and other mods that have come out since I put
things in m othballs. I ahve installed the springs that replace the
bungie and am plea sed with how that went. The question I have is about
the necessity of the mass balance arm replacement as it seems to be a
challenging job. How impo rtant do others find it for a tri-gear flown
from paved runways. Have most
builders in the US made this change? What are the opinions? It's
great
to be back to the Europa.
Curtis Jaussi
Tri gear 914
40 hours flown in 2006
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronh
r
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matroni
c
s.com/Navigator?Europa-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
n
tribution
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/services - Find out what Tiscali can do for you
________________________________ Message 2
_____________________________________
Time: 12:18:58 AM PST US
From: "nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk" <nwcmc@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
Just to make the point clear. The bungee on the mono is nothing to do
with suspension. It is there to assist the weight of the mainwheel for
gear retr action.
Regards
Nigel Charles
----Original Message----
From: rlborger@mac.com
Subj: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
Raimo,
My understanding from discussions with Nev is that the spring reaction
of a metal spring is incorrect for this application.
Bob B
Sent from my iPhone
On Apr 14, 2009, at 11:19, Raimo Toivio <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi> wrote:
Bud and all
is there any mod that replaces bungee to spring(s) in mono?
I read Curtis Jaussi=C2=B4s earlier message carelessly and thought there
is but understood later he has a trike and has replaced trike=C2=B4s
bungee to springs.
Raimo OH-XRT
----- Original Message -----
From: ALAN YERLY
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 3:12 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
Curtis...
If you built the mass balance arm properly and didn't bugger up the
holes o r have a tail wheel type, the original mass balance arm seems to
be holding up. But over time, side play will wallow out the 3/16 holes
and that is w hat we were concerned about.
I hope you have a good sized access hole. If you do, it takes 2-4
hours d epending on turnbuckles, cables, your tower width, etc. Pretty
much a no b rainer.
The new part is properly made and will serve many years without fail.
If y ou install the TP18 butterfly attachment for the cables it takes 4
hours.
So cut the old cables, pull out the arm with weights. Assemble the new
arm on the bench. Rig up a small turnbuckle from A/C Spruce and throw
the thi ng in. As for the phenolic parts, I use #8 screws as they
countersink easi er. I use a dab of double back sticky tape to set the
rub strip where I wa nt it then add just a dab of slow setting thick
superglue, check it again a nd hit it with the accellerator. I have an
angle drill that makes the prem ade holes I make easy to do by feel.
Insert the nuts and screws, and pull down. I have some one handed
gimicks I use like a cut off stubby screwdriv er that wedges into the
post slot and holds the screw. Then I put on the n ut and crank her
down.
Call me when you need one.
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations (813) 653-4989
Europa Dealer
Subject: Europa-List: Mod 70
From: cjaussi@gmail.com
I'm just getting back to getting N6125 in the air again after a couple
of y ears away from flying. I am upgrading the engine to a Jason Parker
914 tur bo, fuel injected and other mods that have come out since I put
things in m othballs. I ahve installed the springs that replace the
bungie and am plea sed with how that went. The question I have is about
the necessity of the mass balance arm replacement as it seems to be a
challenging job. How impo rtant do others find it for a tri-gear flown
from paved runways. Have most
builders in the US made this change? What are the opinions? It's
great
to be back to the Europa.
Curtis Jaussi
Tri gear 914
40 hours flown in 2006
>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List
ronics.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronh
r
ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c
href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matroni
c
s.com/Navigator?Europa-List
href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/co
n
tribution
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/services - Find out what Tiscali can do for you
________________________________ Message 3
_____________________________________
Time: 01:57:59 AM PST US
From: "Robert C Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Was RE: Europa-List: Mod 70.... Now my ramblings on my trike
nose wheel set up.
Karl and all,
IMHO the steel springs or the bungee on a trike nose gear are all meant
to purely accommodate severe shock on a bad landing which otherwise
would have a drastic effect on the nose leg, that is it permits the leg
to move upon receiving a sudden load which otherwise would take it in to
yield stress regions. The so called suspension of the nose wheel depends
entirely on the leg itself flexing. ( That's not to say I like the idea
so don't shoot the messenger!) In any case too much suspension you need
a new propeller ! I had a bad experience with the bungee ( well one or
two really !) when the bump stop had passed through the lays of reeved
bungee cutting through the bungee letting the nose leg extend to the
wire safety strap. Francis Donaldson gave me dispensation to put the
bump stop the other way up fixed to the upper tube and bumping on the
leg between the lays of bungee. This worked OK and so it didn't need to
pass between any bungee reeving. ( I also managed on a wheel barrow
landing to bend the leg downwards prompting Neville Eyre to quip "had I
landed wrong way up ?" Andy Draper was present and so realized there and
then that due to the geometry of the castering pivot any load from
forward of the wheel centre line actually will result in the leg being
bent downwards!
Since my nose wheel departed on a "greaser" landing event (now with the
leg replaced and springs employed) I have an extended pivot spindle with
two roll pins as keepers in place of the single one all has been well.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl
Sent: 15 April 2009 02:43
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
My own experience confirms this. A spring suspension on the mono would
cause some very interesting landings. It's bad enough on a trike. Very
similar to : removing the shock absorbers from the front suspension of
your car, and driving it at 80 90 km/h along a bumpy grass field.
Karl
> Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 00:51:44 +0100
> From: grahamsingleton@btinternet.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
>
<grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>
> Robert Borger wrote:
> > Raimo,
> >
> > My understanding from discussions with Nev is that the spring
reaction
> > of a metal spring is incorrect for this application.
> >
> > Bob B
> The important point is that rubber has a damping effect but steel does
> not. This is why rubber, (elastic) is better than steel (springs) for
> undercarriages.
> Think about it, a spring goes "boingyoingoing" but a rubber band goes
> "thwack"
> Graham
&g==========
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 4
_____________________________________
Time: 02:41:24 AM PST US
From: Tim Houlihan <houlihan@blueyonder.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
Karl.
I may be wrong on this as I am working from my memory which can be very
suspect.
My understanding of the Mono undercarriage is that the rubber bungee's
are there to assist with lifting the wheel assembly to the retracted
position. The suspension is managed by the "rubber" block between the
reaction plates. any damping is due to the "thwack" effect mentioned by
Graham, or by the optional , at least it was optional on the Classic,
twin shock absorbers fitted through the middle of the elastomer block.
Tim
Karl Heindl wrote:
>
>
> My own experience confirms this. A spring suspension on the mono would
> cause some very interesting landings. It's bad enough on a trike. Very
> similar to : removing the shock absorbers from the front suspension of
> your car, and driving it at 80 90 km/h along a bumpy grass field.
>
> Karl
>
> >
> <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
> >
> > Robert Borger wrote:
> > > Raimo,
> > >
> > > My understanding from discussions with Nev is that the spring
> reaction
> > > of a metal spring is incorrect for this application.
> > >
> > > Bob B
> > The important point is that rubber has a damping effect but steel
> > does not. This is why rubber, (elastic) is better than steel
> > (springs) for undercarriages.
> > Think about it, a spring goes "boingyoingoing" but a rubber band
> > goes "thwack"
> > Graham
> &g==========
> >
> >
> >
> *
>
>
> *
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> --
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
________________________________ Message 5
_____________________________________
Time: 03:42:31 AM PST US
From: "UVTReith" <uvtreith@t-online.de>
Subject: Europa-List: Aileron setting and more
Hi Europa Family,
At present I am working on fine trimming, weight and balance etc.
When I measured the angles of my ailerons, they are quite different and
need correct setting.
How can I do the adjustments of this?
Thanks for help.
Best Regards,
Bruno Reith / UVT Reith
XS Mono
________________________________ Message 6
_____________________________________
Time: 04:40:44 AM PST US
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Michigan Airports
From: "h&jeuropa" <butcher43@att.net>
Hi Dave,
Michigan airports that have customs are:
Detroit City, Detroit Metro, Detroit Willow Run and Port Huron.
Michigan landing rights airports (you have to call for customs an hour
or two before
arrival) are Alpena, Battle Creek, Bay City, Flint, Grand Rapids,
Kalamazoo, Pontiac, Saginaw and Sault Ste Marie.
We'd be happy to meet you at Kalamazoo any time! Great restaurant just
across the street. Some commercial traffic and some flight training but
not a hectic airport. There is a tower and radar service. Looks like
about 200 NM from London.
Email us (butcher43@att.net) and come on over!
Jim & Heather
N241BW Mono 914
Do Not Archieve
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239290#239290
________________________________ Message 7
_____________________________________
Time: 05:18:38 AM PST US
From: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
Tim
I am not pro and should be more carefull but I am sure you are right.
Mono bungee has nothing to do with landing /suspension, damping or
bouncing.
It is only to help pilot to retract.
Manual page 29-5: "To assist pilot in retracting the LG into the centre
tunnel a bungee cord is used".
So, if you loose it, no worries.
I think mono is still retractable w/o bungee and if not - so what?
Coming back to my original question:
I cannot see any obvious problem if changing bungee to spring.
Spring could be more permanent solution, easier to adjust and optimize
and no time period.
Probably spring is heavier than bungee anyway and more expensive
solution also.
For example I would like to have my bungee more powerful.
It is quite easy to retract but that exercise is not sophisticated
enough (!).
Definetely I am not going to tighten it up because of hard labor.
Too taut bungee is probaly giving upp earlier.
So professors - how is a spring???
Raimo OH-XRT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Houlihan" <houlihan@blueyonder.co.uk>
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 12:39 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
>
> Karl.
> I may be wrong on this as I am working from my memory which can be
very
> suspect.
> My understanding of the Mono undercarriage is that the rubber bungee's
> are there to assist with lifting the wheel assembly to the retracted
> position. The suspension is managed by the "rubber" block between the
> reaction plates. any damping is due to the "thwack" effect mentioned
by
> Graham, or by the optional , at least it was optional on the Classic,
> twin shock absorbers fitted through the middle of the elastomer block.
>
> Tim
>
>
> Karl Heindl wrote:
> >
> >
> > My own experience confirms this. A spring suspension on the mono
would
> > cause some very interesting landings. It's bad enough on a trike.
Very
> > similar to : removing the shock absorbers from the front suspension
of
> > your car, and driving it at 80 90 km/h along a bumpy grass field.
> >
> > Karl
> >
> > >
> > <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
> > >
> > > Robert Borger wrote:
> > > > Raimo,
> > > >
> > > > My understanding from discussions with Nev is that the spring
> > reaction
> > > > of a metal spring is incorrect for this application.
> > > >
> > > > Bob B
> > > The important point is that rubber has a damping effect but steel
does
> > > not. This is why rubber, (elastic) is better than steel (springs)
for
> > > undercarriages.
> > > Think about it, a spring goes "boingyoingoing" but a rubber band
goes
> > > "thwack"
> > > Graham
> > &g==========
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> >
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 8
_____________________________________
Time: 06:04:07 AM PST US
From: Karl Heindl <kheindl@msn.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
Tim and Nigel=2C
Thanks for putting me straight. I just assumed that the mono bungee had
the
same function.
On the trigear question I don't see how the bungee or springs only come
int
o play on a hard landing. I think it is exactly the other way round. The
bu
ngee is constantly stretching and contracting on every little bump. I
can a
ctually observe that through my bulkhead window. Only when the
bungee/sprin
g have reached their maximum stretch does the leg take over.
Tim mentions shock absorbers. Now that would have been ideal also for
the t
rigear=2C especially to lessen the slingshot effect of the springs.
Karl
> Date: Wed=2C 15 Apr 2009 10:39:38 +0100
> From: houlihan@blueyonder.co.uk
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
>
k>
>
> Karl.
> I may be wrong on this as I am working from my memory which can be
very
> suspect.
> My understanding of the Mono undercarriage is that the rubber bungee's
> are there to assist with lifting the wheel assembly to the retracted
> position. The suspension is managed by the "rubber" block between the
> reaction plates. any damping is due to the "thwack" effect mentioned
by
> Graham=2C or by the optional =2C at least it was optional on the
Classic
=2C
> twin shock absorbers fitted through the middle of the elastomer block.
>
> Tim
>
>
> Karl Heindl wrote:
> >
> >
> > My own experience confirms this. A spring suspension on the mono
would
> > cause some very interesting landings. It's bad enough on a trike.
Very
> > similar to : removing the shock absorbers from the front suspension
of
> > your car=2C and driving it at 80 90 km/h along a bumpy grass field.
> >
> > Karl
> >
> > >
> > <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
> > >
> > > Robert Borger wrote:
> > > > Raimo=2C
> > > >
> > > > My understanding from discussions with Nev is that the spring
> > reaction
> > > > of a metal spring is incorrect for this application.
> > > >
> > > > Bob B
> > > The important point is that rubber has a damping effect but steel
doe
s
> > > not. This is why rubber=2C (elastic) is better than steel
(springs) f
or
> > > undercarriages.
> > > Think about it=2C a spring goes "boingyoingoing" but a rubber band
go
es
> > > "thwack"
> > > Graham
> > &g==========
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > *
> >
> >
> > *
> >
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
-
> >
> >
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
==========
==========
==========
==========
>
>
>
________________________________ Message 9
_____________________________________
Time: 07:52:16 AM PST US
Subject: Europa-List: Re: pitot tube connectors
From: "rampil" <ira.rampil@gmail.com>
If you would something really nice for the panel connection and the wing
root,
check out the Winter 9005 5x quick-disconnect at
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/winter.htm#Tubing,_Connectors,_and_Miscel
laneous
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239312#239312
________________________________ Message 10
____________________________________
Time: 09:18:00 AM PST US
From: "Erich Trombley" <erichdtrombley@juno.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Mono Undercarrige Spring vs Bungee
Graham, wrote,
The important point is that rubber has a damping effect but steel doe
s not. This is why rubber, (elastic) is better than steel (springs) for
undercarriages. Think about it, a spring goes "boingyoingoing" but a rub
ber band goes "thwack."
I would normally agree with your statement related to the damping effect
of a bungee, however, in the application of the undercarriage (mono) th
e bungee is to assist with the retraction of the landing gear not to pro
vide dampening. Dampening is performed with the rubber block and shock
absorbers.
Erich Trombley
N28ET Classic Mono 914
____________________________________________________________
Lower rates for Veterans. Click for VA loan information.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsHJAXujF53jxh8VvQgFs3M
Wz9oQ8sM2Gn7a54hnQFky76JfkAzOwA/
________________________________ Message 11
____________________________________
Time: 10:39:14 AM PST US
From: Fred Klein <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Trim Damper Assembly
All,
Before bonding on the top, I want to be certain that the Trim Damper
Assembly is properly adjusted, particularly w/ respect to the amount
of friction when it moves in the slot in TS01. As far as I can tell,
the Build Manual does not address this question, yet it would appear
to be key to having the pitch control system function properly without
burning up the pitch trim motor. I can't seem to get my mind around
the function of this seemingly elaborate confusion of spring, tube,
thru bolt, and nuts of various sizes...it's complexity suggests that,
when properly adjusted, it performs a critical function.
I reference Fig. 2, p. 19-2, and Step 4 & Fig. 6 on p. 19-4.
Can anyone please enlighten me on what proper adjustment would be?
Thanks in advance,
Fred
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
________________________________ Message 12
____________________________________
Time: 01:39:16 PM PST US
From: "Jeffrey J Paris" <jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Pictures Needed!
Dear Europa Listers,I am looking for any detailed pictures of anyone out
in
Europaland who has sucessfully integrated a Jabiru 3300 into an original
Eur
opa/Rotax cowling. =C2-From my current research it look as if a
Europa/JAb
iru cowling is not available in the US. =C2-Bud Yerly of =C2- Custom Fli
ght Creations has responded that they have done such a modification,
however
, it's going to take him some time to find the photos.Thank you for your
tim
e and consideration.Cheers,Jeff Paris Kit #A012 Monowheel Classic
Jab3300
=C2-
------------------------------------------------------------
Human Resource Training
Want to help people? Click here to learn more about human resource
training
..
http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1guegEkr9EYgNbsgMnfsc9plTvrx1fm3uiNMIQ
9PmP
u2dZn5TYcCII/
________________________________ Message 13
____________________________________
Time: 03:05:20 PM PST US
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pictures Needed!
From: Tom Friedland <96victor@gmail.com>
Hi Jeff
I got my europa/jabiru cowling directly from Jabiru and I think that it
is
better looking than the europa cowling.
Tom
On Wed, Apr 15, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Jeffrey J Paris
<jeffrey-j-paris@excite.com
> wrote:
> Dear Europa Listers,
> I am looking for any detailed pictures of anyone out in Europaland who
has
> sucessfully integrated a Jabiru 3300 into an original Europa/Rotax
cowling.
> From my current research it look as if a Europa/JAbiru cowling is not
> available in the US. Bud Yerly of Custom Flight Creations has
responded
> that they have done such a modification, however, it's going to take
him
> some time to find the photos.
>
> Thank you for your time and consideration.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Jeff Paris Kit #A012 Monowheel Classic Jab3300
> ------------------------------
> Human Resource
Training<http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1guegEkr9EYgNbsgMnfsc9plTvrx1
fm3uiNMIQ9PmPu2dZn5TYcCII/> Want
> to help people? Click here to learn more about human resource
training.<http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1guegEkr9EYgNbsgMnfsc9plTvrx
1fm3uiNMIQ9PmPu2dZn5TYcCII/> Click
> Here For More
Information<http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1guegEkr9EYgNbsgMnfsc9plTv
rx1fm3uiNMIQ9PmPu2dZn5TYcCII/>
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________ Message 14
____________________________________
Time: 03:35:06 PM PST US
From: "Robert C Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pictures Needed!
Hi! Jeff
IMHO the Jabiru 3300 can not be accommodated in the existing Classic
Cowling without massive changes to the cowling . From memory the
crank/propeller shaft is about 2" higher and the installation is about
2" longer than the Rotax Cowl. I believe that the Jabiru people now
produce a cowl to fit the Europa . Just save yourself some severe head
ache, bite the bullet and get one.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG ex 3300 Now 914 Rotax
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey J
Paris
Sent: 15 April 2009 21:34
Subject: Europa-List: Pictures Needed!
Dear Europa Listers,
I am looking for any detailed pictures of anyone out in Europaland who
has sucessfully integrated a Jabiru 3300 into an original Europa/Rotax
cowling. From my current research it look as if a Europa/JAbiru cowling
is not available in the US. Bud Yerly of Custom Flight Creations has
responded that they have done such a modification, however, it's going
to take him some time to find the photos.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Cheers,
Jeff Paris Kit #A012 Monowheel Classic Jab3300
_____
<http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1guegEkr9EYgNbsgMnfsc9plTvrx1fm3uiNMI
Q9PmPu2dZn5TYcCII/> Human Resource Training
<http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1guegEkr9EYgNbsgMnfsc9plTvrx1fm3uiNMI
Q9PmPu2dZn5TYcCII/> Want to help people? Click here to learn more about
human resource training.
<http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1guegEkr9EYgNbsgMnfsc9plTvrx1fm3uiNMI
Q9PmPu2dZn5TYcCII/> Click Here For More Information
________________________________ Message 15
____________________________________
Time: 03:53:47 PM PST US
From: "Bob Berube" <bberube@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pictures Needed!
Jeffrey,
I think I still have the contact that made the Jab 3300 cowling for the
Europa. If your interested I will try and dig up the info. I do have a
JAB3300 cowling for the Europa in the shop but it belongs to a customer.
If your coming to the Sun n Fun show, you could take some measurements
vs the Rotax cowling if that would help. Let me know..
Regards,
Bob Berube
Flight Crafters
813 779-1156
813 695-1120 Cell
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey J
Paris
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:34 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Pictures Needed!
Dear Europa Listers,
I am looking for any detailed pictures of anyone out in Europaland who
has sucessfully integrated a Jabiru 3300 into an original Europa/Rotax
cowling. From my current research it look as if a Europa/JAbiru cowling
is not available in the US. Bud Yerly of Custom Flight Creations has
responded that they have done such a modification, however, it's going
to take him some time to find the photos.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Cheers,
Jeff Paris Kit #A012 Monowheel Classic Jab3300
_____
<http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1guegEkr9EYgNbsgMnfsc9plTvrx1fm3uiNMI
Q
9PmPu2dZn5TYcCII/> Human Resource Training
<http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1guegEkr9EYgNbsgMnfsc9plTvrx1fm3uiNMI
Q
9PmPu2dZn5TYcCII/> Want to help people? Click here to learn more about
human resource training.
<http://tagline.excite.com/fc/FgElN1guegEkr9EYgNbsgMnfsc9plTvrx1fm3uiNMI
Q
9PmPu2dZn5TYcCII/> Click Here For More Information
________________________________ Message 16
____________________________________
Time: 04:20:51 PM PST US
From: jimpuglise@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pictures Needed!
Bob-
The other option would be to use mine as a mold and make one.=C2- It
woul
d be a lot of work but probably less than adapting a rotax cowl.=C2-
That
might be ap "Plan B"=C2-if he can't get one made. =C2-
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Berube" <bberube@tampabay.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 6:52:11 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pictures Needed!
Jeffrey,
I think I still have the contact that made the Jab 3300 cowling for the
Eur
opa.=C2- If your interested I will try and dig up the info.=C2- I do ha
ve a JAB3300 cowling for the Europa in the shop but it belongs to a
custome
r.=C2- If your coming to the Sun n Fun show, you could take some
measurem
ents vs the Rotax cowling if that would help. Let me know..
Regards,
Bob Berube
Flight Crafters
813 779-1156
813 695-1120 Cell
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey J Paris
Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 4:34 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Pictures Needed!
Dear Europa Listers,
I am looking for any detailed pictures of anyone out in Europaland who
has
sucessfully integrated a Jabiru 3300 into an original Europa/Rotax
cowling.
=C2-From my current research it look as if a Europa/JAbiru cowling is
no
t available in the US. =C2-Bud Yerly of =C2- Custom Flight Creations ha
s responded that they have done such a modification, however, it's going
to
take him some time to find the photos.
Thank you for your time and consideration.
Cheers,
Jeff Paris Kit #A012 Monowheel Classic Jab3300=C2-
=C2-=C2-
Human Resource Training
Want to help people? Click here to learn more about human resource
training
.
Click Here For More Information
=C2- =C2- http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://forums.
====
=
________________________________ Message 17
____________________________________
Time: 07:44:10 PM PST US
From: William McClellan <wilwood@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Pictures Needed!
Jeff,
I also have the Jabaru 3300 cowling for my Europa under construction.
Where are
you located? I am in SoCal. I will be at Sun n Fun. If it comes to
it, a
mold can be made from my cowling. It does take some time but very
doable. And
I agree with Tom, I think it is a good looking cowling.
Bill McClellan
A164
________________________________ Message 18
____________________________________
Time: 11:38:11 PM PST US
From: Frans Veldman <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trim Damper Assembly
Fred Klein wrote:
> Before bonding on the top, I want to be certain that the Trim Damper
> Assembly is properly adjusted, particularly w/ respect to the amount
of
> friction when it moves in the slot in TS01. As far as I can tell, the
> Build Manual does not address this question, yet it would appear to be
> key to having the pitch control system function properly without
burning
> up the pitch trim motor. I can't seem to get my mind around the
function
> of this seemingly elaborate confusion of spring, tube, thru bolt, and
> nuts of various sizes...it's complexity suggests that, when properly
> adjusted, it performs a critical function.
It appears to me that the function is to take sudden load applications,
i.e. flutter, and to cancel out any slack in the system behind it,
particularly from the gears in the trim motor assembly. Any slack here
would induce flutter, and the trim damper assembly will make this slack
"invisble".
These trim motors are awfully strong, so I doubt you could adjust the
friction so much that the motor would not be able to move it anymore
and/or burn up.
Also, I believe that, despite the suggestion of "adjustable" components,
that the adjustable range is neglectible. If bolted together properly,
it is performing its intended job (whatever that may be).
> Can anyone please enlighten me on what proper adjustment would be?
I guess everyone has another perception of that the proper adjustment
would be. As of so far no Europa's have come down due to inproper
adjustment, it appears that in reality the adjustment is not critical.
The ommission about this adjustment in the manual is a further
indication that it is not critical. ;-)
I would suggest to set it halfway the available range. I can't recall
how I adjusted it, but most likely I set it halfway the available range
as well.
--
Frans Veldman
The data contained in, or attached to, this e-mail, may contain confidential information.
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Insurance by Sirius |
Does anyone have experience with or know anything about Sirius Aviation
Insurance, the Danish subsidiary of Sirius International? They offer
interesting insurance premium for my Europa, but settlement after a possible
accident is always to be considered, of course, - - - - - -.
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
Message 8
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| Subject: | Updated Sun N Fun Europa Attendee list |
Hello all,
I have updated the list of potential Sun N Fun attendees. Please print
out a copy of the list if you are planning on attending the event. Last
info I received on the planned Europa gathering is for Friday (4/24) ev
ening at Hooters (the one further out). For those flying in your birds
have a save flight. See you all next week.
Erich Trombley
N28ET Classic Mono 914
____________________________________________________________
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Message 9
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| Subject: | Trim Damper Assembly |
Fred
I do not think the adjustment is very critical. I did mine up tight at
first and the result was that it juddered. That is the friction stopped it
moving at all until the forces were quite high. It then jumped a short
distance and did it again. I loosened it off until it stopped juddering and
it has work perfectly since.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | bonding top wing panel |
All,
For the usual reasons, I've left my wings open until now. This post is
to acknowledge and thank whomever it was who thought up the notion of
clear taping the underside of the top wing panel, laying down the
blobs of Redux/flox on the ribs, and trial fitting in order to ensure
full contact between panel, ribs, and trailing edge closeouts when
final bonding is done.
I followed the drill with the packing tape on the aileron and the stir
sticks on the flap and used 2 x 2 x 1/4" steel angle for straight
edges weighted w/ bricks to ensure that the top panel was straight and
true.
After enduring that moment of sheer panic as the top panel needed some
coaxing to pop off, I was amazed at the depth of Redux required to
take up the space/tolerance between panel and ribs and the amount
which will be required in order to ensure full contact, even when the
Redux thins down to zip at the flap closeout and forward flange.
Thanks to you, when I get this bird in the air, I will fly with an
extra measure of confidence in my build.
Fred
A194
PS: ...and thanks for the insights into the issue I raised the other
day about the trim damper!
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Updated Sun N Fun Europa Attendee list |
Hi All,
Based on discussion with Bud, Friday evening seems to be the best choice.
There should be a Europa Owners/Interested Parties Forum earlier in the
afternoon Friday. The specific time and Forum tent are not yet available.
The Hoot (as it were) is the one on I-4 a few miles north of the aerodrome, and
near the shopping mall in Lakeland.
I hope to see everyone there!
Ira
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239569#239569
Message 12
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| Subject: | propeller torque |
All,
Today I received my Woodcomp propeller. According to the manual I should
torque the bolts with 22Nm.
However, because of the location of the bolts, it is impossible to get
there with a normal torque wrench.
Is there a special tool I'm not aware off? Or do people practice
torqueing with 22Nm with a torque wrench as reference, and once mastered
the feel, apply it to the propeller bolts? Or is it just not critical at
all and is anything between hand-tight and applying brute force acceptable?
BTW, the propeller appears to be of good quality, there is a mechanical
end-stop indeed, and there are two limit switches *in series*.
--
Frans Veldman
Message 13
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| Subject: | propeller torque |
Frans,
This issue was raised in September 2006, at which time I offered the
following advice:
quote
1. Set the torque limit on the torque wrench in the normal way.
1. Use a fixed spanner on the prop bolt.
2. Use a transition piece for the torque wrench that goes into the other
end
of the spanner.
3. Orientate the torque wrench so that its handle is 90 degrees (right
angle) to the spanner.
4. Apply force on the torque wrench handle at 90 degrees to the handle,
i.e.
straight out, i.e. parallel to the fixed spanner.
5. The torque thus created at the "other end of the spanner" transfers
along
the length of the spanner and onto the prop bolt.
As you apply the force/torque, the prop. bolt will turn and you then
simply
follow with it, i.e. maintain your hand force parallel with the spanner.
Re. 2 above: Alternatively, use the "open" end of the spanner on the
prop
bolt and put a suitably sized bolt (one that the torque wrench will fit
onto) through the "star" end of the spanner, with a nut tightened hard
on
the other side.
I have attached (I hope it comes through!) a rough sketch illustrating
the
principle.
unquote
I apologize for numbering the two first paragraphs both as 1. The
sketch I
attached is not stored in the list archive, where I retrieved the above.
I
don't have the sketch on this PC, so I have made a new one for you - see
attached.
Good luck!
Regards,
Svein
LN-SKJ
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] P=E5 vegne av Frans
Veldman
Sendt: 16. april 2009 22:05
Til: europa-list@matronics.com
Emne: Europa-List: propeller torque
<frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
All,
Today I received my Woodcomp propeller. According to the manual I should
torque the bolts with 22Nm.
However, because of the location of the bolts, it is impossible to get
there with a normal torque wrench.
Is there a special tool I'm not aware off? Or do people practice
torqueing with 22Nm with a torque wrench as reference, and once mastered
the feel, apply it to the propeller bolts? Or is it just not critical at
all and is anything between hand-tight and applying brute force
acceptable?
BTW, the propeller appears to be of good quality, there is a mechanical
end-stop indeed, and there are two limit switches *in series*.
--
Frans Veldman
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Cowls |
TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote:
> Incidentally, my Europa has been mistakenly identified as a Lancair on
> several occasions now by other pilots at various places I've visited.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Lawton
> Whitwell, TN (TN89)
> N245E -
Almost an insult that, John? Lancair might look pretty but it doesn't
fly pretty imho. Neibaur neglected to employ an aerodynamicist. Ivan had
Don Dykins who is a genius. (imho)
Graham
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Matronic on the Europa Forum |
test
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: propeller torque |
Sidsel og Svein Johnsen wrote:
> I have attached (I hope it comes through!) a rough sketch illustrating the
> principle.
Ah, that's a great idea! Thanks a lot!
--
Frans Veldman
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