Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:33 AM - Re: propeller torque ()
2. 12:51 AM - Jabiru Cowls (James, Clive R)
3. 03:08 AM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_propeller_torque? (Carl Pattinson)
4. 03:08 AM - Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (Robert C Harrison)
5. 03:48 AM - Re: Re: propeller torque (Frans Veldman)
6. 03:48 AM - Re: Re: propeller torque (Robert C Harrison)
7. 04:51 AM - Re: Lancair vs. Europa (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
8. 05:20 AM - Re: Re: propeller torque (Karl Heindl)
9. 07:17 AM - Re: Re: propeller torque (Rowland Carson)
10. 07:21 AM - Re: Re: Lancair vs. Europa (craig bastin)
11. 07:28 AM - Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (G-IANI)
12. 07:28 AM - =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_?= =?ISO-8859-1?Q?propeller_torque? (Carl Pattinson)
13. 07:28 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru Cowls (Fred Klein)
14. 08:14 AM - Re: Re: Lancair vs. Europa (Garry)
15. 08:40 AM - Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (Frans Veldman)
16. 09:44 AM - Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (Karl Heindl)
17. 09:53 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru Cowls (Graham Singleton)
18. 10:13 AM - Re: Matronic on the Europa Forum (rampil)
19. 10:22 AM - Re: Lancair vs. Europa (rampil)
20. 10:32 AM - Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (Frans Veldman)
21. 10:35 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru Cowls (Frans Veldman)
22. 10:44 AM - Re: Re: Jabiru Cowls (Fred Klein)
23. 10:53 AM - Re: Re: propeller torque (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
24. 11:53 AM - Scuff sanding before top fuse goes on and other ideas (rparigoris)
25. 12:24 PM - Re: Matronic on the Europa Forum (josok)
26. 12:29 PM - Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (Karl Heindl)
27. 02:03 PM - Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (Frans Veldman)
28. 03:18 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Cowls, Wing tips (ALAN YERLY)
29. 03:37 PM - Wanted: Jabiru 3300, used or new. Suggestions? (messydeer)
30. 04:08 PM - Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (Karl Heindl)
31. 04:21 PM - Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (craig bastin)
32. 05:43 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Cowls (Graham Singleton)
33. 05:47 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Cowls (Graham Singleton)
34. 05:48 PM - Re: Scuff sanding before top fuse goes on and other ideas (Graham Singleton)
35. 06:17 PM - Re: Re: Jabiru Cowls (Fred Klein)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: propeller torque |
Hi Fran
I purchased A Snap on tool made for the job,
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=2224&group_ID=269&store=uk&dir=catalog
Not the cheapest solution but against a prop being loose no contest,
regards
Ivor
---- Frans Veldman <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl> wrote:
>
> All,
>
> Today I received my Woodcomp propeller. According to the manual I should
> torque the bolts with 22Nm.
> However, because of the location of the bolts, it is impossible to get
> there with a normal torque wrench.
> Is there a special tool I'm not aware off? Or do people practice
> torqueing with 22Nm with a torque wrench as reference, and once mastered
> the feel, apply it to the propeller bolts? Or is it just not critical at
> all and is anything between hand-tight and applying brute force acceptable?
>
> BTW, the propeller appears to be of good quality, there is a mechanical
> end-stop indeed, and there are two limit switches *in series*.
>
> --
> Frans Veldman
>
>
>
>
>
Message 2
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RE: the enquiry about 3300 cowls.
I have a 3300 on an Esqual and managed to fit the Rotax cowls however it
is very tight as Bob found out many years ago. You are welcome to these
if you want to make me an offer.
However my suggestion would be to get in touch with Arion who market the
Lightning.
They created the Lightning from the Esqual and have developed an
excellent set of cowls which give plenty of room for the 3300. They are
that good that I have a set on order for my Esqual.
I suggest to get a pair of these, they are $430 for the cowls and I'd
recommend their cooling ducts which are broader and do a better cooling
job than the Jab ones. Ducts are $310 a pair.
The Lightning http://www.flylightning.net/ can be found there, you'll
see the cowl has the chubby look not unlike the Europa (sorry
guys...:-).
They will need a slight mod I'm sure, to fit the Esqual they need the
bottom cowl tapering in though the Europa looks deeper. With Fibre glass
anything is possible of course.
Regards, Clive
Message 3
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| Subject: | =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_propeller_torque? |
X-mailer: iAVMailScanner 1.5.6.4
Im a bit puzzled here.
Whilst I can see how the device works it occurrs to me that increasing the
distance of the torque measuring device from the bolt centre will affect the
actual torque applied to the bolt head. Surely there has to be an adjustment
in the setting to compensate for this.
Unless I am much mistaken, the longer the adapter arm, the less force will
be needed to make the torque wrench click (you know what I mean). If the
torque wrench is set to the reccommended setting, the likelyhood is that the
bolt will be over tightened or even possibly stripped.
PS: I have said bolts when I mean nuts.
Perhaps someone can point out the error of my thinking.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
----- Original Message -----
From: <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: propeller torque
>
>
> Hi Fran
> I purchased A Snap on tool made for the job,
> http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=2224&group_ID=269&store=uk&dir=catalog
> Not the cheapest solution but against a prop being loose no contest,
> regards
> Ivor
> ---- Frans Veldman <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl> wrote:
>> <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
>>
>> All,
>>
>> Today I received my Woodcomp propeller. According to the manual I should
>> torque the bolts with 22Nm.
>> However, because of the location of the bolts, it is impossible to get
>> there with a normal torque wrench.
>> Is there a special tool I'm not aware off? Or do people practice
>> torqueing with 22Nm with a torque wrench as reference, and once mastered
>> the feel, apply it to the propeller bolts? Or is it just not critical at
>> all and is anything between hand-tight and applying brute force
>> acceptable?
>>
>> BTW, the propeller appears to be of good quality, there is a mechanical
>> end-stop indeed, and there are two limit switches *in series*.
>>
>> --
>> Frans Veldman
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________
> No viruses found in this incoming message
> Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.6.4
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa |
Flyer Mag.
Hi! Ian,
You quote :-"This was something of a surprise as, to the best of my
knowledge, we had not had an accident with the nose wheel"
Do you mean your bird specifically or in the fleet generally?
Where were you when I tried to give a "heads up" to trike operators two
years ago about my incident of nose wheel/yoke departure? Everyone I
highlighted this self same issue to seemed once again to put it down to
"Bob Harrison Syndrome." The factory did load tests and gave assurances
as to the adequacy of the arrangement so how come we are needing to
revisit the matter? My claim was that simple load tests do not represent
real time operation and because of the prising action of the friction
assembly the stresses can far outweigh the dead weight factors.
I don't need "brownie points" but I do have a conscience for other
flyers lives.
Now to return to the main points of engineering:-
I think you may well find that aft of your yoke spindle hole the metal
is beginning to be compressively distressed if the spindle has been
bent.
Your roll pin seems to indicate that movement has taken place so there
will also be compressive distress in front of the spindle hole at its
lower forward reaches. (BTW the application of Loctite was part of the
original assembly procedure anyway.)
The solution you proffer is to put an additional 1" of spindle into the
Yoke as I did but may I suggest that you also insert a second roll pin
1" below the original and still use Loctite but also applied from the
bottom of the hole.
As to the cause of the failure and pot holes etc. the possibility of a
"wheel barrow" landing also adds loads from forward of the spindle
centre line and I posted a message only last week on the Matronics Forum
in a debate about Bungee/Springs and suspension only supposed to be by
flexing of the nose leg. These forces "out of vertical plumb" also go to
cause the prising/opening action of the friction device against the
castellated adjustment nut holding the whole assembly together.
Much more attention is needed to be applied to inspection and the
loading applied by the castellated nut. I had re-set my friction loading
only 10 days prior to the incident but unbeknown to me the assembly was
being pulled apart by the adjustment loading.
BTW let me know the mod. number for the longer spindle when you have it
!
Ignore all this at your peril.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List: propeller torque |
Carl Pattinson wrote:
> Whilst I can see how the device works it occurrs to me that increasing
> the distance of the torque measuring device from the bolt centre will
> affect the actual torque applied to the bolt head. Surely there has to
> be an adjustment in the setting to compensate for this.
You are right. You have to apply a conversion factor here. On the
internet, I even found a few online calculators for this purpose
(although the math is trivial).
How did you torque the propeller?
--
Frans Veldman
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List: propeller torque |
Hi! Carl
You need to apply the torque 90 deg to the end of the spanner to have
the load be real time torque quoted on your tool.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Pattinson
Sent: 17 April 2009 11:07
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: propeller torque
<carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Im a bit puzzled here.
Whilst I can see how the device works it occurrs to me that increasing
the
distance of the torque measuring device from the bolt centre will affect
the
actual torque applied to the bolt head. Surely there has to be an
adjustment
in the setting to compensate for this.
Unless I am much mistaken, the longer the adapter arm, the less force
will
be needed to make the torque wrench click (you know what I mean). If the
torque wrench is set to the reccommended setting, the likelyhood is that
the
bolt will be over tightened or even possibly stripped.
PS: I have said bolts when I mean nuts.
Perhaps someone can point out the error of my thinking.
Carl Pattinson
G-LABS
----- Original Message -----
From: <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 8:29 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: propeller torque
>
>
> Hi Fran
> I purchased A Snap on tool made for the job,
>
http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=2224&group
_ID=269&store=uk&dir=catalog
> Not the cheapest solution but against a prop being loose no contest,
> regards
> Ivor
> ---- Frans Veldman <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl> wrote:
>> <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
>>
>> All,
>>
>> Today I received my Woodcomp propeller. According to the manual I
should
>> torque the bolts with 22Nm.
>> However, because of the location of the bolts, it is impossible to
get
>> there with a normal torque wrench.
>> Is there a special tool I'm not aware off? Or do people practice
>> torqueing with 22Nm with a torque wrench as reference, and once
mastered
>> the feel, apply it to the propeller bolts? Or is it just not critical
at
>> all and is anything between hand-tight and applying brute force
>> acceptable?
>>
>> BTW, the propeller appears to be of good quality, there is a
mechanical
>> end-stop indeed, and there are two limit switches *in series*.
>>
>> --
>> Frans Veldman
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________
> No viruses found in this incoming message
> Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.6.4
> http://www.iolo.com
>
_______________________________________
No viruses found in this outgoing message
Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.6.4
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Lancair vs. Europa |
In a message dated 4/17/2009 3:03:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
europa-list@matronics.com writes:
Almost an insult that, John? Lancair might look pretty but it doesn't
fly pretty imho. Neibaur neglected to employ an aerodynamicist. Ivan had
Don Dykins who is a genius. (imho)
Hey Graham,
Well, I didn't take it that way, and I'm reasonably sure they were
speaking more about the lines of my Europa, as opposed to the flight
characteristics. However, I have had at least one first hand account regarding
the
Lancair 320 that echoes those sentiments that made me glad I built a Europa.
The wife and I were out on a site seeing and lunch flight one cold winter
day a year or so ago. It was one of those crystal clear winter days when you
can see 100 miles. We stopped at Elizabethton, TN, for a bite to eat after
flying around over in the Smokey Mountains looking at recent snow that had
fallen on the mountain tops. There was this fellow on the ramp who was
preparing to depart in a 320 for New Jersey. I stepped out of my Europa
wearing only a tee shirt, (my cabin heat works very well) but quickly had to
grab a jacket. This fellow was wearing a snowmobile suit. We struck up a
conversation on the ramp and as I chatted with him I couldn't resist asking why
he was wearing such heavy clothing when he was about to depart on a 3 hour
flight. He said "Because my heater doesn't work very well". Continuing the
conversation, he commented that he limited his airport preferences to strips
with at least 3500' and only paved strips because the 320 didn't slow down
very well and was "a handful" to land. Apparently, it takes quite a bit
of runway to take off, too. He also went on to comment how uncomfortable the
seats were. Overall, he didn't sound all that impressed with his creation.
It was pretty to look at, though.
I had taken a long, serious look at the 320 before I decided to build a
Europa. That day I smiled all the way home.
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
N245E - Flying
DO NOT ARCHIVE
**************Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the
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Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List: propeller torque |
Frans=2C we had the same thread about 2 years ago. Special tools (I was sil
ly enough to buy one)=2C and recalculatind torque is a waste of time=2C if
you do as Bob says. The force exerted by your arm is less=2C but the torque
applied at the nut is unchanged.
Karl
> From: ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: propeller torque
> Date: Fri=2C 17 Apr 2009 11:44:48 +0100
>
co.uk>
>
> Hi! Carl
> You need to apply the torque 90 deg to the end of the spanner to have
> the load be real time torque quoted on your tool.
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
> Pattinson
> Sent: 17 April 2009 11:07
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: propeller torque
>
> <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> Im a bit puzzled here.
>
> Whilst I can see how the device works it occurrs to me that increasing
> the
> distance of the torque measuring device from the bolt centre will affect
> the
> actual torque applied to the bolt head. Surely there has to be an
> adjustment
> in the setting to compensate for this.
>
> Unless I am much mistaken=2C the longer the adapter arm=2C the less force
> will
> be needed to make the torque wrench click (you know what I mean). If the
>
> torque wrench is set to the reccommended setting=2C the likelyhood is tha
t
> the
> bolt will be over tightened or even possibly stripped.
>
> PS: I have said bolts when I mean nuts.
>
> Perhaps someone can point out the error of my thinking.
>
> Carl Pattinson
> G-LABS
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday=2C April 17=2C 2009 8:29 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: propeller torque
>
>
> >
> >
> > Hi Fran
> > I purchased A Snap on tool made for the job=2C
> >
> http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=2224&
group
> _ID=269&store=uk&dir=catalog
> > Not the cheapest solution but against a prop being loose no contest=2C
> > regards
> > Ivor
> > ---- Frans Veldman <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl> wrote:
> >> <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
> >>
> >> All=2C
> >>
> >> Today I received my Woodcomp propeller. According to the manual I
> should
> >> torque the bolts with 22Nm.
> >> However=2C because of the location of the bolts=2C it is impossible to
> get
> >> there with a normal torque wrench.
> >> Is there a special tool I'm not aware off? Or do people practice
> >> torqueing with 22Nm with a torque wrench as reference=2C and once
> mastered
> >> the feel=2C apply it to the propeller bolts? Or is it just not critica
l
> at
> >> all and is anything between hand-tight and applying brute force
> >> acceptable?
> >>
> >> BTW=2C the propeller appears to be of good quality=2C there is a
> mechanical
> >> end-stop indeed=2C and there are two limit switches *in series*.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Frans Veldman
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________
> > No viruses found in this incoming message
> > Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.6.4
> > http://www.iolo.com
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________
> No viruses found in this outgoing message
> Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.6.4
> http://www.iolo.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List: propeller torque |
At 2009-04-17 11:06 +0100 Carl Pattinson wrote:
>Whilst I can see how the device works it occurrs to me that
>increasing the distance of the torque measuring device from the bolt
>centre will affect the actual torque applied to the bolt head.
>Surely there has to be an adjustment in the setting to compensate
>for this.
>
>Unless I am much mistaken, the longer the adapter arm, the less
>force will be needed to make the torque wrench click (you know what
>I mean). If the torque wrench is set to the reccommended setting,
>the likelyhood is that the bolt will be over tightened or even
>possibly stripped.
>
>PS: I have said bolts when I mean nuts.
>
>Perhaps someone can point out the error of my thinking.
Carl - we had a similar discussion in September 2006, during which I
had exactly the same visualisation problem as you, until ....
At 2006-09-08 20:34 +0100 Rowland Carson wrote:
>Consider (as they say in all the best textbooks) a virtual lever
>going diagonally from the handle end of the torque wrench to the
>centre of the prop bolt. This will be longer than the actual torque
>wrench, but the component of force effective at right angles to its
>axis will be smaller than the force exerted by the operator, in the
>exact proportion required to apply the required torque to the prop
>bolt.
>
>All I had to do was remember that the torque-wrench & spanner
>assembly is a rigid body (at least until the torque wrench clicks)
>and sketch the components of the operator force. Sorry to be so slow
>on the uptake
Does that help?
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/
| <rowil@clara.net> ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Lancair vs. Europa |
Hmmm interesting, I was thinking about building a lancair ES or IV once my
XS is flying
maybe I should look elseware.
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Sent: Friday, 17 April 2009 9:49 PM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Lancair vs. Europa
In a message dated 4/17/2009 3:03:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
europa-list@matronics.com writes:
Almost an insult that, John? Lancair might look pretty but it doesn't
fly pretty imho. Neibaur neglected to employ an aerodynamicist. Ivan had
Don Dykins who is a genius. (imho)
Hey Graham,
Well, I didn't take it that way, and I'm reasonably sure they were
speaking more about the lines of my Europa, as opposed to the flight
characteristics. However, I have had at least one first hand account
regarding the Lancair 320 that echoes those sentiments that made me glad I
built a Europa.
The wife and I were out on a site seeing and lunch flight one cold winter
day a year or so ago. It was one of those crystal clear winter days when you
can see 100 miles. We stopped at Elizabethton, TN, for a bite to eat after
flying around over in the Smokey Mountains looking at recent snow that had
fallen on the mountain tops. There was this fellow on the ramp who was
preparing to depart in a 320 for New Jersey. I stepped out of my Europa
wearing only a tee shirt, (my cabin heat works very well) but quickly had to
grab a jacket. This fellow was wearing a snowmobile suit. We struck up a
conversation on the ramp and as I chatted with him I couldn't resist asking
why he was wearing such heavy clothing when he was about to depart on a 3
hour flight. He said "Because my heater doesn't work very well". Continuing
the conversation, he commented that he limited his airport preferences to
strips with at least 3500' and only paved strips because the 320 didn't slow
down very well and was "a handful" to land. Apparently, it takes quite a bit
of runway to take off, too. He also went on to comment how uncomfortable the
seats were. Overall, he didn't sound all that impressed with his creation.
It was pretty to look at, though.
I had taken a long, serious look at the 320 before I decided to build a
Europa. That day I smiled all the way home.
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
N245E - Flying
DO NOT ARCHIVE
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
Access 350+ FREE radio stations anytime from anywhere on the web. Get the
Radio Toolbar!
Message 11
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| Subject: | Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa |
Flyer Mag.
Bob
> Do you mean your bird specifically or in the fleet generally
Our bird. I was aware of the discussion re your accident two years ago.
> The factory did load tests and gave assurances as to the adequacy of the
arrangement.
As far is I am aware what the factory tested was the adequacy of the roll
pin to retain the spindle. What is called into question this time is the
bending of the spindle.
> simple load tests do not represent real time operation and because of the
prising action of the friction assembly the stresses can far outweigh the
dead weight factors.
I agree with you here. On the three examples I have examined there is
evidence of loads on the roll pin that I would not have expected. This is
on the forward lower side and may compressed the casting. This marking
indicates stress but far below what would be required to shear the pin.
> BTW the application of Loctite was part of the original assembly procedure
anyway.
That is not what David Person (who makes the unit) said. The three I have
examined did not use Loctite or similar.
> The solution you proffer
I am reporting what David Person is now doing. I believe this is an
improvement and I have no evidence to suggest a second roll pin is needed.
> These forces "out of vertical plumb" also go to cause the prising/opening
action of the friction device against the
castellated adjustment nut holding the whole assembly together.
Basically I agree with this analysis. As I understand it, it is this action
which is allowing the bending to occur. I think we have very limited
understanding of the loads applied to the components in the real world of
potholes and wheelbarrow landings.
G-IANI has damping grease applied to the friction plate. As a result the
castellated nut does not need to be very tight to provide the necessary
damping friction. Under shock loads this means the spindle can move a short
distance vertically against the spring washers. I have speculated that this
may be what allows the bending to occur. Taking this to its logical
conclusion, it would be best to eliminate the spring washers. The question
is how to do this and provide and maintain the anti shimmy damping required.
So:-
1) The point of may article was to prompt owners to keep a close watch on
their nose wheel.
2) If there a better man/woman out there, who can come up with an improved
design for the nose wheel, I am sure we will be pleased to hear from them.
What we want is proper trailing link springing, controllable anti shimmy
damping, no weight increase etc.
PS) The longer spindle does not have a Mod number at present but it probably
should have. I will discuss this with Roger when I have time.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 250 hours
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com
Message 12
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| Subject: | =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_Re=3A_Europa-List=3A_?= |
=?ISO-8859-1?Q?propeller_torque?
X-mailer: iAVMailScanner 1.5.6.4
Well, I was a tad skecptical but thought I would put it to the test.
Just been down to the workshop and put a bolt in the vice and torqued a nut
onto it using a socket and torque wrench. I then substituted a 1/2 in
spanner (1/2 ring at one end and 1/2 open at the other). Result was exactly
the same !!
Thanks for the info. Our prop is due back from Woodcomp next week so we know
how to attach it now.
Thanks all for the info.
Regards,
Carl - or should that be Thomas (doubting! )
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert C Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 11:44 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: propeller torque
>
> <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> Hi! Carl
> You need to apply the torque 90 deg to the end of the spanner to have
> the load be real time torque quoted on your tool.
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Carl
> Pattinson
> Sent: 17 April 2009 11:07
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: propeller torque
>
> <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> Im a bit puzzled here.
>
> Whilst I can see how the device works it occurrs to me that increasing
> the
> distance of the torque measuring device from the bolt centre will affect
> the
> actual torque applied to the bolt head. Surely there has to be an
> adjustment
> in the setting to compensate for this.
>
> Unless I am much mistaken, the longer the adapter arm, the less force
> will
> be needed to make the torque wrench click (you know what I mean). If the
>
> torque wrench is set to the reccommended setting, the likelyhood is that
> the
> bolt will be over tightened or even possibly stripped.
>
> PS: I have said bolts when I mean nuts.
>
> Perhaps someone can point out the error of my thinking.
>
> Carl Pattinson
> G-LABS
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 8:29 AM
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: propeller torque
>
>
>>
>>
>> Hi Fran
>> I purchased A Snap on tool made for the job,
>>
> http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item.asp?P65=&tool=all&item_ID=2224&group
> _ID=269&store=uk&dir=catalog
>> Not the cheapest solution but against a prop being loose no contest,
>> regards
>> Ivor
>> ---- Frans Veldman <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl> wrote:
>>> <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> Today I received my Woodcomp propeller. According to the manual I
> should
>>> torque the bolts with 22Nm.
>>> However, because of the location of the bolts, it is impossible to
> get
>>> there with a normal torque wrench.
>>> Is there a special tool I'm not aware off? Or do people practice
>>> torqueing with 22Nm with a torque wrench as reference, and once
> mastered
>>> the feel, apply it to the propeller bolts? Or is it just not critical
> at
>>> all and is anything between hand-tight and applying brute force
>>> acceptable?
>>>
>>> BTW, the propeller appears to be of good quality, there is a
> mechanical
>>> end-stop indeed, and there are two limit switches *in series*.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Frans Veldman
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________
>> No viruses found in this incoming message
>> Scanned by iolo AntiVirus 1.5.6.4
>> http://www.iolo.com
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________
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Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Cowls |
On Apr 16, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Graham Singleton wrote:
> Almost an insult that, John? Lancair might look pretty but it
> doesn't fly pretty imho. Neibaur neglected to employ an
> aerodynamicist. Ivan had Don Dykins who is a genius. (imho)
Graham,
I too had considered buying a Lancair kit, going so far as to visit
their factory and have a contract prepared, and I've got to admit that
there was a time back in 2004 when I questioned my decision to pop for
the Europa.
Though I can't pretend to understand fully what Don wrote in his books
about the design of the Europa and don't question his genius, I've
often wondered about his choice of wing tip; Hoerner and VanGrunsven
clearly believe that in the speed range of the Europa, some special
attention is warranted.
Your thoughts?
Fred
A194
--
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Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Lancair vs. Europa |
You might take a long look at the RV series of planes. More Europa
builders have gone on to build RV's than any other type of plane, at
least in the US.
Garry Stout
Europa Trigear, RV7A
----- Original Message -----
From: craig bastin
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 10:21 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Lancair vs. Europa
Hmmm interesting, I was thinking about building a lancair ES or IV
once my XS is flying
maybe I should look elseware.
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Sent: Friday, 17 April 2009 9:49 PM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Lancair vs. Europa
In a message dated 4/17/2009 3:03:02 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
europa-list@matronics.com writes:
Almost an insult that, John? Lancair might look pretty but it
doesn't
fly pretty imho. Neibaur neglected to employ an aerodynamicist.
Ivan had
Don Dykins who is a genius. (imho)
Hey Graham,
Well, I didn't take it that way, and I'm reasonably sure they were
speaking more about the lines of my Europa, as opposed to the flight
characteristics. However, I have had at least one first hand account
regarding the Lancair 320 that echoes those sentiments that made me glad
I built a Europa.
The wife and I were out on a site seeing and lunch flight one cold
winter day a year or so ago. It was one of those crystal clear winter
days when you can see 100 miles. We stopped at Elizabethton, TN, for a
bite to eat after flying around over in the Smokey Mountains looking at
recent snow that had fallen on the mountain tops. There was this fellow
on the ramp who was preparing to depart in a 320 for New Jersey. I
stepped out of my Europa wearing only a tee shirt, (my cabin heat works
very well) but quickly had to grab a jacket. This fellow was wearing a
snowmobile suit. We struck up a conversation on the ramp and as I
chatted with him I couldn't resist asking why he was wearing such heavy
clothing when he was about to depart on a 3 hour flight. He said
"Because my heater doesn't work very well". Continuing the conversation,
he commented that he limited his airport preferences to strips with at
least 3500' and only paved strips because the 320 didn't slow down very
well and was "a handful" to land. Apparently, it takes quite a bit of
runway to take off, too. He also went on to comment how uncomfortable
the seats were. Overall, he didn't sound all that impressed with his
creation. It was pretty to look at, though.
I had taken a long, serious look at the 320 before I decided to
build a Europa. That day I smiled all the way home.
Regards,
John Lawton
Whitwell, TN (TN89)
N245E - Flying
DO NOT ARCHIVE
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Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa |
Flyer Mag.
G-IANI wrote:
> 2) If there a better man/woman out there, who can come up with an improved
> design for the nose wheel, I am sure we will be pleased to hear from them.
> What we want is proper trailing link springing, controllable anti shimmy
> damping, no weight increase etc.
If we are referring to the bending spindle problem only, I believe this
is easy to solve.
Aircraft Spruce offers a few tubes with the same diameter and material
as the original spindle, with various wall thicknesses.
Have a look at:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/4130tubing_un1.php
Most likely you can insert a matching tube inside the original spindle
to make it stronger.
The inner tube can be fixed inside the original spindle by the roll pin,
but of course some redux between the two tubes would make it even stronger.
You can go further than that: As I was looking for a way to increase the
length of the nose wheel assembly, to accomodate for a larger prop, I
got the idea from Karl Heindle to increase the length of the spindle and
to insert a nylon block between the friction disk and wheel fork. Alas,
ACS has no tubes with a wall thickness similar to the original spindle,
but there are tubes with sizes that allow them to fit into each other,
and by doing so, you can create any wall thickness you want. It is easy
to make a spindle that is stronger than the original spindle, and also
larger if that is what you want.
Karl is flying from his rough gras strip for years now with a 2" larger
nose wheel spindle. I'm working on the same modification. If anyone is
interested, I have quite some left of the nylon rod that fills up the
gap between the wheel fork and friction disk.
--
Frans Veldman
Message 16
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| Subject: | Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa |
Flyer Mag.
Frans=2C
Sorry to butt in again=2C but you say that ACS don't have a matching wall t
hickness spindle.
They have exactly the same=2C I gave you the part number.
Cheers=2C
Karl
> Date: Fri=2C 17 Apr 2009 17:38:36 +0200
> From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failur
e. Europa Flyer Mag.
>
l>
>
> G-IANI wrote:
>
> > 2) If there a better man/woman out there=2C who can come up with an imp
roved
> > design for the nose wheel=2C I am sure we will be pleased to hear from
them.
> > What we want is proper trailing link springing=2C controllable anti shi
mmy
> > damping=2C no weight increase etc.
>
> If we are referring to the bending spindle problem only=2C I believe this
> is easy to solve.
>
> Aircraft Spruce offers a few tubes with the same diameter and material
> as the original spindle=2C with various wall thicknesses.
>
> Have a look at:
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/mepages/4130tubing_un1.php
>
> Most likely you can insert a matching tube inside the original spindle
> to make it stronger.
>
> The inner tube can be fixed inside the original spindle by the roll pin
=2C
> but of course some redux between the two tubes would make it even stronge
r.
>
> You can go further than that: As I was looking for a way to increase the
> length of the nose wheel assembly=2C to accomodate for a larger prop=2C I
> got the idea from Karl Heindle to increase the length of the spindle and
> to insert a nylon block between the friction disk and wheel fork. Alas=2C
> ACS has no tubes with a wall thickness similar to the original spindle=2C
> but there are tubes with sizes that allow them to fit into each other=2C
> and by doing so=2C you can create any wall thickness you want. It is easy
> to make a spindle that is stronger than the original spindle=2C and also
> larger if that is what you want.
>
> Karl is flying from his rough gras strip for years now with a 2" larger
> nose wheel spindle. I'm working on the same modification. If anyone is
> interested=2C I have quite some left of the nylon rod that fills up the
> gap between the wheel fork and friction disk.
>
> --
> Frans Veldman
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Cowls |
Fred Klein wrote:
> Though I can't pretend to understand fully what Don wrote in his books
> about the design of the Europa and don't question his genius, I've
> often wondered about his choice of wing tip; Hoerner
> and VanGrunsven clearly believe that in the speed range of the Europa,
> some special attention is warranted.
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> Fred
> A194
Fred
I used to try and get Don (and Ivan) to explore wing tip design but he
never would, he felt that in the cruise the induced drag was so low
(because of the wing area) that it wasn't worth the troublel; probably
true for the cruise but not true for climb. I always liked the wing on
the Dornier 228 (number?) It reminded me of the top glider wings with
increasing sweep on the leading edge.
I don't like straight lines and square wings, don't see many birds like
that do you?
Graham
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Matronic on the Europa Forum |
Hi Steve,
Hope you see this. My login credentials on the EuropaOwners site
have gone bad. Whats the route to fix?
Ira
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239718#239718
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Lancair vs. Europa |
Of course, for those with the true need for speed, there is always the
"egg." An acquaintance of mine thinks the Venture is going to come back.
Flys with better pitch stability than the Lancairs according to several
printed reviews.
There are quite a few RV3-8s at my aerodrome and they are a lot of
fun to fly, but not very pitch stable (in my hands). The Europa, which
was not designed for IFR, seems to me a better platform for it than
the RV series. Maybe the 10 is better, I have not tried it myself yet ;-)
Ira
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239719#239719
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. |
Europa Flyer Mag.
hi Karl,
> Sorry to butt in again, but you say that ACS don't have a matching wall
> thickness spindle.
> They have exactly the same, I gave you the part number.
The part number you gave has a smaller wall thickness than what I
measured on the original. Maybe Europa changed the tubing size somewhat?
My solution is to order 03-04800 and 03-06600, which will give me a
combined wall thickness of .240
The largest wall thickness of 1" steel tube offered by ACS (your part
number) is .188, and that is smaller than what I measured. I measured an
I.D. of .5
Given the fact that some people experienced problems with a bending
nosewheel spindle, I'd rather stick to the original wall thickness.
Also, an inner I.D. of .5 allso provides a snug fit of the AN8-bolt to
be inserted.
Has anyone else measured the wall thickness and/or inner diameter of the
nosewheel spindle? Maybe there are two versions supplied? Which explains
why some people experience problems and some others not (bad landings
excluded of course! ;-) ) Another difference I experienced is that my
nosehweel spindle is not just held by the famous roll pin, but also
"glued" with something (probably locktite).
Of course I can't exclude the possibility that I didn't measure
correctly. In that case, I will just get a stronger nose wheel spindle
than original.
--
Frans Veldman
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Cowls |
Graham Singleton wrote:
> I used to try and get Don (and Ivan) to explore wing tip design but he
> never would, he felt that in the cruise the induced drag was so low
> (because of the wing area) that it wasn't worth the troublel; probably
> true for the cruise but not true for climb.
I recall having read somewhere that for the speeds reached by
GA-aircraft, any improvements by winglets etc. is countered by the
additional drag (frontal area, friction drag). If you see winglets, it
is usually the result of fashion, not science.
--
Frans Veldman
Message 22
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Cowls |
On Apr 17, 2009, at 9:52 AM, Graham Singleton wrote:
> I always liked the wing on the Dornier 228 (number?) It reminded me
> of the top glider wings with increasing sweep on the leading edge.
Graham...ah yes, the raked tips...something akin to those on the
Lancair Legacy??
(sorry, jus couldn't resist...)
Cheers,
Fred
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List: propeller torque |
Actually, the torque wrench may be at any angle to the spanner - it "clicks"
only when the bending moment at the end (= torque) reaches the set point.
The bending moment transferred to the spanner (ref. my sketch yesterday) is
then equal to that set point. The important point is that the force applied
by your hand at the torque wrench handle MUST ALWAYS BE PARALLELL TO THE
SPANNER, ALSO IF THE TWO TOOLS ARE AT 90 DEGREES. If not, your force causes
an additional bending moment in the spanner and thus an additional torque on
the prop bolt. The reason for recommending (and drawing) the spanner and
the torque wrench at 90 degrees angle is that the natural direction of your
hand's force on the handle is also 90 degrees, i.e. less risk that you
forget to apply the force parallel to the spanner.
If the torque wrench is not 90 degrees to the spanner, more force (PARALLEL
TO THE SPANNER!) must be applied to the torque wrench to reach the set
point, but the torque at the prop bolt is still equal to the set point when
the torque wrench "clicks".
Regards,
Svein
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] P vegne av Robert C
Harrison
Sendt: 17. april 2009 12:45
Til: europa-list@matronics.com
Emne: RE: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: propeller torque
<ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Carl
You need to apply the torque 90 deg to the end of the spanner to have
the load be real time torque quoted on your tool.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
Message 24
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| Subject: | Scuff sanding before top fuse goes on and other ideas |
Prior to bonding on top fuse, besides what is mentioned in manual to scuff sand,
figure we will scuff sand fin rib contact area and area that will get 2 BID,
sternpost and sternpost contact area, baggage bulkhead and baggage bulkhead contact
area and area that gets 2 BID, door sill area that will get 2 BID and balsa
for strengthening / wire conduit.
Not going to make a splash for mass balance tower or fin rib.
*Rudder cables, turnbuckles and guides installed.
*All antennas installed, wired and tested (except transponder).
*Pitch servo wired.
*Fuel system installed (914) and pumps wired.
*Tailwheel pad installed (mono) and steel outrigger to help support twisting forces
on mounting bolt.
*Fin rib has foam dug out for better bite upon bonding (then will get 2 BID from
rear).
*Aft Odyssey PC545 battery mount installed with CCA wire strain relief supports
on top clamp.
*Any ty wrap clips needed aft of baggage bulkhead installed.
*Any gaps larger than in lower fuse between bottom of joggle and where foam begins
is filled with PVC foam and 2 BID over)
*406Mhz ELT installed
*Mono undercarriage installed
*Airbrake lever and control horn installed.
*Ceiling installed and aft portion wired.
*Rollbar installed with attachments for shoulder harness x2.
*Filler cap receptical installed and area that cobra attaches has balsa and BID
reinforcement.
*Fuel tank has BID reinforcement in tunnel and bottom is filled with foam to help
support.
*Baggage ribs installed to fuse with splash on the tops.
*Two cameras, one in fin and one on aft ceiling mounted and wired. DVR mounted
on folding tray attached to baggage bulkhead to allow aft access.
* Will make holes to run pneumatic and wires to wings going down side of fuse prior
to top bond on.
Will rig wings with top permanent bonded on to remove any change that may occur,
will take hit having to rig flaps and rear lift pin crossbar with top on.
What did I miss?
Any negative comments?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: Matronic on the Europa Forum |
Ira,
You have email in your gmail account,
Regards,
Jos
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 26
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| Subject: | Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. |
Europa Flyer Mag.
Hi Frans=2C
That must explain the confusion over wall thickness. Europa's supplier must
have changed the specs somewhere along the line. In decimal inches=2C the
thickness of mine is .188=2C with an i.d. of .625. My serial number is 392.
It seems strange that no-one was informed of this.
It also seems strange that no mandatory mod was ever issued to change the r
oll pin to a bolt=2C after Bob H.'s experience. We have had one or two othe
r imho completely useless mandatory mods.
And how did the PFA/LAA ever approve the instrument module which is very fl
ammable and giving off very toxic fumes when ignited.
Cheers=2C
Karl
> Date: Fri=2C 17 Apr 2009 19:28:43 +0200
> From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failur
e. Europa Flyer Mag.
>
l>
>
> hi Karl=2C
>
> > Sorry to butt in again=2C but you say that ACS don't have a matching wa
ll
> > thickness spindle.
> > They have exactly the same=2C I gave you the part number.
>
> The part number you gave has a smaller wall thickness than what I
> measured on the original. Maybe Europa changed the tubing size somewhat?
>
> My solution is to order 03-04800 and 03-06600=2C which will give me a
> combined wall thickness of .240
> The largest wall thickness of 1" steel tube offered by ACS (your part
> number) is .188=2C and that is smaller than what I measured. I measured a
n
> I.D. of .5
> Given the fact that some people experienced problems with a bending
> nosewheel spindle=2C I'd rather stick to the original wall thickness.
> Also=2C an inner I.D. of .5 allso provides a snug fit of the AN8-bolt to
> be inserted.
>
> Has anyone else measured the wall thickness and/or inner diameter of the
> nosewheel spindle? Maybe there are two versions supplied? Which explains
> why some people experience problems and some others not (bad landings
> excluded of course! =3B-) ) Another difference I experienced is that my
> nosehweel spindle is not just held by the famous roll pin=2C but also
> "glued" with something (probably locktite).
>
> Of course I can't exclude the possibility that I didn't measure
> correctly. In that case=2C I will just get a stronger nose wheel spindle
> than original.
>
> --
> Frans Veldman
>
>
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>
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. |
Europa Flyer Mag.
Karl Heindl wrote:
>
> That must explain the confusion over wall thickness. Europa's supplier
> must have changed the specs somewhere along the line. In decimal inches,
> the thickness of mine is .188, with an i.d. of .625. My serial number is
> 392.
My serial number is 589.
Could be interesting to compare the serial numbers of airplanes with
nose wheel troubles.
BTW, it occurs to me that the fork itself is ridiculous strong and
heavy, compared to the spindle and anything above it. If I'm not
mistaken, it is ordinairy cast iron, and that doesn't belong on an
airplane IMHO. Some steel-alloy part could do the same job with less
than half of the weight.
Above the wheel axle, one could drill a series of holes of increasing
size, or cut out a triangle shape on each side, without compromising the
strength (at least not compared to the rest of the leg), saving
considerable weight. Any ideas, comments?
> And how did the PFA/LAA ever approve the instrument module which is very
> flammable and giving off very toxic fumes when ignited.
Glad I didn't use it at all. ;-)
If anyone is interested in a never used instrument module, mail me
privately. Although it is somewhat tempting to see how flammable it is. ;-)
--
Frans Veldman
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Cowls, Wing tips |
Not to butt in=2C but as you all know=2C I have flaws...
Wing tip design is to control vortices as we all know. Mr. Dykins did a gr
eat job of designing the wing with the tip creating virtually no lift at cr
uise speeds of 130 KTS and up to 10=2C000 MSL. Therefore=2C in my opinion
=2C an aerodynamic gimmick to reduce tip drag is not necessary=2C unless fo
r cosmetics or utilty.
For those of you unfamiliar=2C the Europa wing lift distribution is very ne
arly elliptic (optimum)=2C giving the least induced drag at low altitude cr
uise. Wing tip redesign is only necessary if the wing loading or wing lift
distribution is not elliptic and a large vortex is generated by the wing t
ip=2C adding drag. Horner tips or winglets work when the big square wing h
as a large vortex created at the tip due to lack of twist=2C so the added f
rontal area drag is compensated for by the reduced vortex drag. And frankl
y=2C the increase in wing area at the tip reduces the stall speed=2C not th
e shape in GA aircraft. On large aircraft with swept wings=2C winglets hel
p break down tip drag and tip losses due to the wide flight envelope of the
aircraft.
Should we ask our Europa wing design to lift another 500 pounds of airplane
=2C or cruise above 20=2C000 MSL=2C wing tip design may be relevant. I lik
e what Claude Tugwell did on his classic. He made the tip to include a sli
ght Horner dip adding about 6 inches from aileron end to the tip. It makes
grasping the tip for carrying=2C rigging and de-rigging easier=2C but does
n't do a thing for speed.
A Plane Jane wing tip isn't sexy=2C but it works if the wing design is righ
t. As one of my aerodynamics instructors (Mr. Bonde=2C who worked on the o
riginal 727 wing) said in college=2C "Tip design can be a flat plate if yo
u got the lift distribution right".
We'll talk more at Sun n Fun over a bit of libation.
Now I have to get the displays ready for Sun 'n Fun.
Bud Yerly
Custom Flight Creations (813) 653-4989
> Date: Fri=2C 17 Apr 2009 19:35:19 +0200
> From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Jabiru Cowls
>
l>
>
> Graham Singleton wrote:
> > I used to try and get Don (and Ivan) to explore wing tip design but he
> > never would=2C he felt that in the cruise the induced drag was so low
> > (because of the wing area) that it wasn't worth the troublel=3B probabl
y
> > true for the cruise but not true for climb.
>
> I recall having read somewhere that for the speeds reached by
> GA-aircraft=2C any improvements by winglets etc. is countered by the
> additional drag (frontal area=2C friction drag). If you see winglets=2C i
t
> is usually the result of fashion=2C not science.
>
> --
> Frans Veldman
>
>
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>
>
>
Message 29
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| Subject: | Wanted: Jabiru 3300, used or new. Suggestions? |
I'm looking for a used or new Jabiru 3300 or where else besides Barnstormers and
Ebay to look.
Thanks,
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=239770#239770
Message 30
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| Subject: | Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. |
Europa Flyer Mag.
Frans=2C
Are you sure the fork is made of cast iron ? Mine is aluminum. What kind of
a kit did you buy ?
Cheers=2C
Karl
> Date: Fri=2C 17 Apr 2009 22:59:02 +0200
> From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failur
e. Europa Flyer Mag.
>
l>
>
> Karl Heindl wrote:
> >
> > That must explain the confusion over wall thickness. Europa's supplier
> > must have changed the specs somewhere along the line. In decimal inches
=2C
> > the thickness of mine is .188=2C with an i.d. of .625. My serial number
is
> > 392.
>
> My serial number is 589.
> Could be interesting to compare the serial numbers of airplanes with
> nose wheel troubles.
>
> BTW=2C it occurs to me that the fork itself is ridiculous strong and
> heavy=2C compared to the spindle and anything above it. If I'm not
> mistaken=2C it is ordinairy cast iron=2C and that doesn't belong on an
> airplane IMHO. Some steel-alloy part could do the same job with less
> than half of the weight.
> Above the wheel axle=2C one could drill a series of holes of increasing
> size=2C or cut out a triangle shape on each side=2C without compromising
the
> strength (at least not compared to the rest of the leg)=2C saving
> considerable weight. Any ideas=2C comments?
>
> > And how did the PFA/LAA ever approve the instrument module which is ver
y
> > flammable and giving off very toxic fumes when ignited.
>
> Glad I didn't use it at all. =3B-)
> If anyone is interested in a never used instrument module=2C mail me
> privately. Although it is somewhat tempting to see how flammable it is.
=3B-)
>
> --
> Frans Veldman
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa |
Flyer Mag.
I have come in on the end of this conversation. From the descriptions and
examination of the nose gear
yoke etc, am i right you are all referring to the shaft in the yoke being
pulled out the top of the fork that
holds the wheel. There is no mention of any work needed to fix this issue on
the europa site, I can see how
a wheelbarrow landing could create such loads. Could some one point me in
the right direction for the orginal issue.
thanks
craig
VH-XSV
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert C
Harrison
Sent: Friday, 17 April 2009 8:06 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure.
Europa Flyer Mag.
<ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Ian,
You quote :-"This was something of a surprise as, to the best of my
knowledge, we had not had an accident with the nose wheel"
Do you mean your bird specifically or in the fleet generally?
Where were you when I tried to give a "heads up" to trike operators two
years ago about my incident of nose wheel/yoke departure? Everyone I
highlighted this self same issue to seemed once again to put it down to
"Bob Harrison Syndrome." The factory did load tests and gave assurances
as to the adequacy of the arrangement so how come we are needing to
revisit the matter? My claim was that simple load tests do not represent
real time operation and because of the prising action of the friction
assembly the stresses can far outweigh the dead weight factors.
I don't need "brownie points" but I do have a conscience for other
flyers lives.
Now to return to the main points of engineering:-
I think you may well find that aft of your yoke spindle hole the metal
is beginning to be compressively distressed if the spindle has been
bent.
Your roll pin seems to indicate that movement has taken place so there
will also be compressive distress in front of the spindle hole at its
lower forward reaches. (BTW the application of Loctite was part of the
original assembly procedure anyway.)
The solution you proffer is to put an additional 1" of spindle into the
Yoke as I did but may I suggest that you also insert a second roll pin
1" below the original and still use Loctite but also applied from the
bottom of the hole.
As to the cause of the failure and pot holes etc. the possibility of a
"wheel barrow" landing also adds loads from forward of the spindle
centre line and I posted a message only last week on the Matronics Forum
in a debate about Bungee/Springs and suspension only supposed to be by
flexing of the nose leg. These forces "out of vertical plumb" also go to
cause the prising/opening action of the friction device against the
castellated adjustment nut holding the whole assembly together.
Much more attention is needed to be applied to inspection and the
loading applied by the castellated nut. I had re-set my friction loading
only 10 days prior to the incident but unbeknown to me the assembly was
being pulled apart by the adjustment loading.
BTW let me know the mod. number for the longer spindle when you have it
!
Ignore all this at your peril.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
16:38:00
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Cowls |
Frans Veldman wrote:
> I recall having read somewhere that for the speeds reached by
> GA-aircraft, any improvements by winglets etc. is countered by the
> additional drag (frontal area, friction drag). If you see winglets, it
> is usually the result of fashion, not science.
>
>
But don't try and fly an EZ without it's winglets! Not possible. It all
depends how much washout the designer put in and the wing area. Exceed
Vne in a sailplane and the wings bend down.
Winglets can certainly be fashionable but square wings are just a poorly
optimised compromise. There are no straight lines on a bird and some of
them are optimised for incredible feats of efficiency.
Graham
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Cowls |
Fred Klein wrote:
> I always liked the wing on the Dornier 228 (number?) It reminded me of
> the top glider wings with increasing sweep on the leading edge.
>
> Graham...ah yes, the raked tips...something akin to those on the
> Lancair Legacy??
>
> (sorry, jus couldn't resist...)
>
> Cheers,
>
> Fred
>
I think the Legacy was designed by Martin Holman wasn't it? not Lance
Neubaur. (can't remember how he spells his name)
Graham ;-)
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Scuff sanding before top fuse goes on and other ideas |
rparigoris wrote:
>
> Will rig wings with top permanent bonded on to remove any change that may occur,
will take hit having to rig flaps and rear lift pin crossbar with top on.
>
> What did I miss?
> Any negative comments?
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
Big hit for negative gain imho. You won't twist the cockpit module anmd
the tail is easi;ly corrected when top goes on.
Graham
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Cowls |
I don't know Graham...I do know that Lance was an artist/illustrator
with no formal training in aerodynamics when he started his
company...not at all certain of the extent or quality of engineering
help upon which he was relying.
And Bud...I very much appreciate your weighing in with your solid
background and knowledge.
See ya next week!
Fred
On Apr 17, 2009, at 5:43 PM, Graham Singleton wrote:
> >
>
> Fred Klein wrote:
>> I always liked the wing on the Dornier 228 (number?) It reminded me
>> of the top glider wings with increasing sweep on the leading edge.
>>
>> Graham...ah yes, the raked tips...something akin to those on the
>> Lancair Legacy??
>>
>> (sorry, jus couldn't resist...)
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Fred
>>
> I think the Legacy was designed by Martin Holman wasn't it? not
> Lance Neubaur. (can't remember how he spells his name)
> Graham ;-)
>
>
--
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