---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/18/09: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:12 AM - Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (Frans Veldman) 2. 02:51 AM - Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (Robert C Harrison) 3. 03:14 AM - Re: Re: propeller torque (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 4. 03:30 AM - Brake pads (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 5. 04:05 AM - Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (craig bastin) 6. 04:12 AM - Re: Brake pads (craig bastin) 7. 04:23 AM - Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (Karl Heindl) 8. 04:52 AM - Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (Robert C Harrison) 9. 05:27 AM - Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (Garry) 10. 06:48 AM - Re: Stemme 10 Comment (Paul McAllister) 11. 07:01 AM - Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (Karl Heindl) 12. 08:26 AM - Re: Trim Damper Assembly (Gerry Cole) 13. 08:39 AM - Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (G-IANI) 14. 09:38 AM - Re: Brake pads (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 15. 09:40 AM - FW: Brake pads (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 16. 10:27 AM - Re: Stemme 10 Comment (Fred Klein) 17. 01:05 PM - Re: Stemme 10 Comment (david miller) 18. 02:05 PM - Re: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. (Robert C Harrison) 19. 03:18 PM - Re: Stemme 10 Comment (Karl Heindl) 20. 03:18 PM - Re: Stemme 10 Comment (Karl Heindl) 21. 03:47 PM - Re: Stemme 10 Comment (david miller) 22. 04:17 PM - Re: Stemme 10 Comment (Fred Klein) 23. 04:39 PM - Re: Stemme 10 Comment (Graham Singleton) 24. 05:41 PM - Re: Stemme 10 Comment (Karl Heindl) 25. 07:07 PM - Re: Stemme 10 Comment (Fred Klein) 26. 09:17 PM - Europa Mono, 912 S, Increasing oil Cooling (JR Gowing) 27. 10:17 PM - Wing root plumbing (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 28. 11:29 PM - Re: Wing root plumbing (craig bastin) 29. 11:40 PM - Re: Wing root plumbing (Robert C Harrison) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:10 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. Karl Heindl wrote: > Are you sure the fork is made of cast iron ? That was the other undocumented change. ;-) Nah, it has the same look and feel as cast iron, and it weighs almost as much. ;-) I was not entirely serious. ;-) Nevertheless, it doesn't appear that someone tried to design it with a high strength/weight ratio in mind. Just compare it with the amount of material and weight of the main gear. The main gear has an axle supported on just one end, with a leg barely thicker than the axle itself. Now look again at the nose wheel. Weird isn't it? It looks like the designer thought that the nose wheel was going to do all the hard the landing work, and the main gear was just there to prevent the plane from falling on its side after the landing. ;-) The whole nose wheel assembly is definitely one of the less well developed area's of the Europa, just like the area of the cowl right above it. It looks like the original designer worked from the tail to the nose, and at about reaching the firewall, he just had enough of it, and delegated the rest of the design to someone else. -- Frans Veldman ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:02 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. Hi! Craig. I should say I was the first to experience this problem and I'm not ashamed to admit, it had a fair share of wheel barrow jobs. Firstly you need to regularly inspect the castor spindle fixing in the aluminium nose wheel yoke/stirrup casting. Unfortunately a nose wheel spat must be removed to do this adequately. If the castoring facility needs regular tightening you will probably have the problem. If the said castor spindle is not plumb into the yoke, either bent or leaning backwards, you need a new spindle and may need a new yoke. My yoke compressed behind the spindle and I now know that the miniscule gap at the front of the friction device is indicating a problem further down. My fix was to have a 1" extended spindle made to project 1" further into the yoke. I utilize a new roll pin in my new yoke AND a second roll pin 1" below the original but 180 deg out of alignment with the first. All suitably loctite applied. ON reflection if I did this again I would have the entire spindle solid instead of bored. ( I accept that the core of the spindle does nothing to improve the bending stress but it does facilitate better continuity of hole for applying the blessed roll pins) I also use the friction grease on the friction damper and to date the fix has worked satisfactorily. Please note that any over lubrication of the pivot area will migrate through the rubber "o" ring mod and so lubricate the friction damper needing still more adjustment /tension applied to the castellated nut and bingo you are on a fools errand tightening the nut still further to get friction and so pulling on the existing inadequate roll pin. The Europa Flyer Mag. contains an item on this problem but still advocates only one roll pin and damn loctite on their own! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG (going where supposedly none went before !) -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig bastin Sent: 18 April 2009 00:20 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. I have come in on the end of this conversation. From the descriptions and examination of the nose gear yoke etc, am i right you are all referring to the shaft in the yoke being pulled out the top of the fork that holds the wheel. There is no mention of any work needed to fix this issue on the europa site, I can see how a wheelbarrow landing could create such loads. Could some one point me in the right direction for the orginal issue. thanks craig VH-XSV -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert C Harrison Sent: Friday, 17 April 2009 8:06 PM Subject: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. Hi! Ian, You quote :-"This was something of a surprise as, to the best of my knowledge, we had not had an accident with the nose wheel" Do you mean your bird specifically or in the fleet generally? Where were you when I tried to give a "heads up" to trike operators two years ago about my incident of nose wheel/yoke departure? Everyone I highlighted this self same issue to seemed once again to put it down to "Bob Harrison Syndrome." The factory did load tests and gave assurances as to the adequacy of the arrangement so how come we are needing to revisit the matter? My claim was that simple load tests do not represent real time operation and because of the prising action of the friction assembly the stresses can far outweigh the dead weight factors. I don't need "brownie points" but I do have a conscience for other flyers lives. Now to return to the main points of engineering:- I think you may well find that aft of your yoke spindle hole the metal is beginning to be compressively distressed if the spindle has been bent. Your roll pin seems to indicate that movement has taken place so there will also be compressive distress in front of the spindle hole at its lower forward reaches. (BTW the application of Loctite was part of the original assembly procedure anyway.) The solution you proffer is to put an additional 1" of spindle into the Yoke as I did but may I suggest that you also insert a second roll pin 1" below the original and still use Loctite but also applied from the bottom of the hole. As to the cause of the failure and pot holes etc. the possibility of a "wheel barrow" landing also adds loads from forward of the spindle centre line and I posted a message only last week on the Matronics Forum in a debate about Bungee/Springs and suspension only supposed to be by flexing of the nose leg. These forces "out of vertical plumb" also go to cause the prising/opening action of the friction device against the castellated adjustment nut holding the whole assembly together. Much more attention is needed to be applied to inspection and the loading applied by the castellated nut. I had re-set my friction loading only 10 days prior to the incident but unbeknown to me the assembly was being pulled apart by the adjustment loading. BTW let me know the mod. number for the longer spindle when you have it ! Ignore all this at your peril. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 16:38:00 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:14:35 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: propeller torque One wrong statement in my posting yesterday: If the force is not parallel to the spanner, the torque on the bolt is not necessarily increased above the torque wrench set point - it may decrease, depending on the direction of the force. If the force is directed inwards toward the spanner/bolt, the torque on the bolt is less than the set point when it clicks. If directed outwards, the torque is higher. So, just keep it parallel to the spanner! Regards, Svein -----Opprinnelig melding----- Fra: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] P vegne av Sidsel & Svein Johnsen Sendt: 17. april 2009 19:53 Til: europa-list@matronics.com Emne: RE: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List: propeller torque Actually, the torque wrench may be at any angle to the spanner - it "clicks" only when the bending moment at the end (= torque) reaches the set point. The bending moment transferred to the spanner (ref. my sketch yesterday) is then equal to that set point. The important point is that the force applied by your hand at the torque wrench handle MUST ALWAYS BE PARALLELL TO THE SPANNER, ALSO IF THE TWO TOOLS ARE AT 90 DEGREES. If not, your force causes an additional bending moment in the spanner and thus an additional torque on the prop bolt. The reason for recommending (and drawing) the spanner and the torque wrench at 90 degrees angle is that the natural direction of your hand's force on the handle is also 90 degrees, i.e. less risk that you forget to apply the force parallel to the spanner. If the torque wrench is not 90 degrees to the spanner, more force (PARALLEL TO THE SPANNER!) must be applied to the torque wrench to reach the set point, but the torque at the prop bolt is still equal to the set point when the torque wrench "clicks". Regards, Svein ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:30:14 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Europa-List: Brake pads The brakes on my trigear's main wheels have got lees "bite" over time. I wonder whether it may be caused by brake fluid spilled on the pads and discs when venting the brake lines. I have not inspected the pads yet, but this will be done soon. Has anyone experienced the same? What is good method to restore the pad's friction surface - cleaning with a solvent (which?), light sanding or both? Regards, Svein LN-SKJ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:05:45 AM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. thanks for that bob, I have some of the anti-shimmy grease, and intended to run it only on the friction surfaces, not pumping the thing full as the manual suggests. being aware of a problem you dont know exist is a good start to fixing it. One thing my flight instructor always drilled me on constantly was "protect the nose wheel" most landings where he was present he would insist on me keeping the nose wheel off the ground as long as possible, balancing the A/C on just the main gear with the elevators. Hopefully his insistance will serve me well when my baby flys. regards and good building craig Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert C Harrison Sent: Saturday, 18 April 2009 7:50 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. Hi! Craig. I should say I was the first to experience this problem and I'm not ashamed to admit, it had a fair share of wheel barrow jobs. Firstly you need to regularly inspect the castor spindle fixing in the aluminium nose wheel yoke/stirrup casting. Unfortunately a nose wheel spat must be removed to do this adequately. If the castoring facility needs regular tightening you will probably have the problem. If the said castor spindle is not plumb into the yoke, either bent or leaning backwards, you need a new spindle and may need a new yoke. My yoke compressed behind the spindle and I now know that the miniscule gap at the front of the friction device is indicating a problem further down. My fix was to have a 1" extended spindle made to project 1" further into the yoke. I utilize a new roll pin in my new yoke AND a second roll pin 1" below the original but 180 deg out of alignment with the first. All suitably loctite applied. ON reflection if I did this again I would have the entire spindle solid instead of bored. ( I accept that the core of the spindle does nothing to improve the bending stress but it does facilitate better continuity of hole for applying the blessed roll pins) I also use the friction grease on the friction damper and to date the fix has worked satisfactorily. Please note that any over lubrication of the pivot area will migrate through the rubber "o" ring mod and so lubricate the friction damper needing still more adjustment /tension applied to the castellated nut and bingo you are on a fools errand tightening the nut still further to get friction and so pulling on the existing inadequate roll pin. The Europa Flyer Mag. contains an item on this problem but still advocates only one roll pin and damn loctite on their own! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG (going where supposedly none went before !) -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig bastin Sent: 18 April 2009 00:20 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. I have come in on the end of this conversation. From the descriptions and examination of the nose gear yoke etc, am i right you are all referring to the shaft in the yoke being pulled out the top of the fork that holds the wheel. There is no mention of any work needed to fix this issue on the europa site, I can see how a wheelbarrow landing could create such loads. Could some one point me in the right direction for the orginal issue. thanks craig VH-XSV -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert C Harrison Sent: Friday, 17 April 2009 8:06 PM Subject: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. Hi! Ian, You quote :-"This was something of a surprise as, to the best of my knowledge, we had not had an accident with the nose wheel" Do you mean your bird specifically or in the fleet generally? Where were you when I tried to give a "heads up" to trike operators two years ago about my incident of nose wheel/yoke departure? Everyone I highlighted this self same issue to seemed once again to put it down to "Bob Harrison Syndrome." The factory did load tests and gave assurances as to the adequacy of the arrangement so how come we are needing to revisit the matter? My claim was that simple load tests do not represent real time operation and because of the prising action of the friction assembly the stresses can far outweigh the dead weight factors. I don't need "brownie points" but I do have a conscience for other flyers lives. Now to return to the main points of engineering:- I think you may well find that aft of your yoke spindle hole the metal is beginning to be compressively distressed if the spindle has been bent. Your roll pin seems to indicate that movement has taken place so there will also be compressive distress in front of the spindle hole at its lower forward reaches. (BTW the application of Loctite was part of the original assembly procedure anyway.) The solution you proffer is to put an additional 1" of spindle into the Yoke as I did but may I suggest that you also insert a second roll pin 1" below the original and still use Loctite but also applied from the bottom of the hole. As to the cause of the failure and pot holes etc. the possibility of a "wheel barrow" landing also adds loads from forward of the spindle centre line and I posted a message only last week on the Matronics Forum in a debate about Bungee/Springs and suspension only supposed to be by flexing of the nose leg. These forces "out of vertical plumb" also go to cause the prising/opening action of the friction device against the castellated adjustment nut holding the whole assembly together. Much more attention is needed to be applied to inspection and the loading applied by the castellated nut. I had re-set my friction loading only 10 days prior to the incident but unbeknown to me the assembly was being pulled apart by the adjustment loading. BTW let me know the mod. number for the longer spindle when you have it ! Ignore all this at your peril. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 16:38:00 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 17:52:00 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:13 AM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Brake pads There are some "brake clean" products available that will do a reasonable job of removing oil and grease from brake pads and shoes, but the material itself is quite porous and the oil etc soaks in where the cleaners only really remove the surface contaminates. Best bet long term is to remove the pads and replace them IMHO. craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sidsel & Svein Johnsen Sent: Saturday, 18 April 2009 8:26 PM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Europa-List: Brake pads The brakes on my trigears main wheels have got lees bite over time. I wonder whether it may be caused by brake fluid spilled on the pads and discs when venting the brake lines. I have not inspected the pads yet, but this will be done soon. Has anyone experienced the same? What is good method to restore the pads friction surface cleaning with a solvent (which?), light sanding or both? Regards, Svein LN-SKJ ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:23:04 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. Frans=2C I think there is a lot of truth in what you are saying. Remember=2C the tri gear was an afterthought and probably put together quickly to get the sales . And that was before they had ironed the bugs out of the mono. All the same=2C I am always amazed how strong especially the main legs are. There are always better solutions=2C but at the end of the day it doesn't really make any difference. The only perfect aircraft I have ever seen is t he Stemme 10 motorglider=2C and maybe that applies to high performance glid ers in general. Karl do not archive > Date: Sat=2C 18 Apr 2009 09:06:18 +0200 > From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failur e. Europa Flyer Mag. > l> > > Karl Heindl wrote: > > > Are you sure the fork is made of cast iron ? > > That was the other undocumented change. =3B-) Nah=2C it has the same look > and feel as cast iron=2C and it weighs almost as much. =3B-) I was not > entirely serious. =3B-) > Nevertheless=2C it doesn't appear that someone tried to design it with a > high strength/weight ratio in mind. > Just compare it with the amount of material and weight of the main gear. > The main gear has an axle supported on just one end=2C with a leg barely > thicker than the axle itself. Now look again at the nose wheel. Weird > isn't it? It looks like the designer thought that the nose wheel was > going to do all the hard the landing work=2C and the main gear was just > there to prevent the plane from falling on its side after the landing. =3B-) > > The whole nose wheel assembly is definitely one of the less well > developed area's of the Europa=2C just like the area of the cowl right > above it. It looks like the original designer worked from the tail to > the nose=2C and at about reaching the firewall=2C he just had enough of i t=2C > and delegated the rest of the design to someone else. > > -- > Frans Veldman > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:08 AM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. Craig, I would suggest that the manual requests to fill the spindle/bush void with lubrication grease otherwise one side of the grease nipple will not be lubricated. As you say only use the friction grease on the friction surfaces. BTW I don't profess to be an authorizing agent ! Regards Bob H -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig bastin Sent: 18 April 2009 12:04 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. thanks for that bob, I have some of the anti-shimmy grease, and intended to run it only on the friction surfaces, not pumping the thing full as the manual suggests. being aware of a problem you dont know exist is a good start to fixing it. One thing my flight instructor always drilled me on constantly was "protect the nose wheel" most landings where he was present he would insist on me keeping the nose wheel off the ground as long as possible, balancing the A/C on just the main gear with the elevators. Hopefully his insistance will serve me well when my baby flys. regards and good building craig Do Not Archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert C Harrison Sent: Saturday, 18 April 2009 7:50 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. Hi! Craig. I should say I was the first to experience this problem and I'm not ashamed to admit, it had a fair share of wheel barrow jobs. Firstly you need to regularly inspect the castor spindle fixing in the aluminium nose wheel yoke/stirrup casting. Unfortunately a nose wheel spat must be removed to do this adequately. If the castoring facility needs regular tightening you will probably have the problem. If the said castor spindle is not plumb into the yoke, either bent or leaning backwards, you need a new spindle and may need a new yoke. My yoke compressed behind the spindle and I now know that the miniscule gap at the front of the friction device is indicating a problem further down. My fix was to have a 1" extended spindle made to project 1" further into the yoke. I utilize a new roll pin in my new yoke AND a second roll pin 1" below the original but 180 deg out of alignment with the first. All suitably loctite applied. ON reflection if I did this again I would have the entire spindle solid instead of bored. ( I accept that the core of the spindle does nothing to improve the bending stress but it does facilitate better continuity of hole for applying the blessed roll pins) I also use the friction grease on the friction damper and to date the fix has worked satisfactorily. Please note that any over lubrication of the pivot area will migrate through the rubber "o" ring mod and so lubricate the friction damper needing still more adjustment /tension applied to the castellated nut and bingo you are on a fools errand tightening the nut still further to get friction and so pulling on the existing inadequate roll pin. The Europa Flyer Mag. contains an item on this problem but still advocates only one roll pin and damn loctite on their own! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG (going where supposedly none went before !) -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of craig bastin Sent: 18 April 2009 00:20 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. I have come in on the end of this conversation. From the descriptions and examination of the nose gear yoke etc, am i right you are all referring to the shaft in the yoke being pulled out the top of the fork that holds the wheel. There is no mention of any work needed to fix this issue on the europa site, I can see how a wheelbarrow landing could create such loads. Could some one point me in the right direction for the orginal issue. thanks craig VH-XSV -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert C Harrison Sent: Friday, 17 April 2009 8:06 PM Subject: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. Hi! Ian, You quote :-"This was something of a surprise as, to the best of my knowledge, we had not had an accident with the nose wheel" Do you mean your bird specifically or in the fleet generally? Where were you when I tried to give a "heads up" to trike operators two years ago about my incident of nose wheel/yoke departure? Everyone I highlighted this self same issue to seemed once again to put it down to "Bob Harrison Syndrome." The factory did load tests and gave assurances as to the adequacy of the arrangement so how come we are needing to revisit the matter? My claim was that simple load tests do not represent real time operation and because of the prising action of the friction assembly the stresses can far outweigh the dead weight factors. I don't need "brownie points" but I do have a conscience for other flyers lives. Now to return to the main points of engineering:- I think you may well find that aft of your yoke spindle hole the metal is beginning to be compressively distressed if the spindle has been bent. Your roll pin seems to indicate that movement has taken place so there will also be compressive distress in front of the spindle hole at its lower forward reaches. (BTW the application of Loctite was part of the original assembly procedure anyway.) The solution you proffer is to put an additional 1" of spindle into the Yoke as I did but may I suggest that you also insert a second roll pin 1" below the original and still use Loctite but also applied from the bottom of the hole. As to the cause of the failure and pot holes etc. the possibility of a "wheel barrow" landing also adds loads from forward of the spindle centre line and I posted a message only last week on the Matronics Forum in a debate about Bungee/Springs and suspension only supposed to be by flexing of the nose leg. These forces "out of vertical plumb" also go to cause the prising/opening action of the friction device against the castellated adjustment nut holding the whole assembly together. Much more attention is needed to be applied to inspection and the loading applied by the castellated nut. I had re-set my friction loading only 10 days prior to the incident but unbeknown to me the assembly was being pulled apart by the adjustment loading. BTW let me know the mod. number for the longer spindle when you have it ! Ignore all this at your peril. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 16:38:00 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 17:52:00 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:31 AM PST US From: "Garry" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. With no disrespect to anyone, it baffles me as to how many Europa pilots continue to land nosewheel first (wheelbarrow). The first thing you learn in basic flight landing training is to hold the nosewheel off for as long as you can, until the elevator looses the power to hold it up. The Europa trigear is so easy and forgiving it practically lands itself. In 45 years of flying I've never touched down the nosewheel first. Can someone explain to me how this keeps happening? Again, I mean no disrespect to anyone....I'm just wondering if there's something I'm overlooking here. Garry Stout 914 Trigear ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert C Harrison" Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 5:49 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. > > > Hi! Craig. > I should say I was the first to experience this problem and I'm not > ashamed to admit, it had a fair share of wheel barrow jobs. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:48:52 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment From: Paul McAllister I suppose this is getting bit off topic, but I was wondering who has had the opportunity to fly a Stemme 10. I got the chance a couple of years ago to fly one for an hour and to spend quite some time looking it over. What a wonderful piece of engineering. It was as almost that the designer would accept no aerodynamic compromises and the engineering had to accommodate it. The owner is a very wealthy business man and he owns two. I asked him why and he told me that the maintenance issues generally always meant that one was in for repairs and since he didn't want to be inconvenienced by aircraft availability he bought a second Stemme. Nice to be some people I guess. Beautiful aircraft to fly, and a lot of fascinating engineering ideas went into it. Paul do not archive On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 5:22 AM, Karl Heindl wrote: > > > Frans, > > I think there is a lot of truth in what you are saying. Remember, the > trigear was an afterthought and probably put together quickly to get the > sales. And that was before they had ironed the bugs out of the mono. > All the same, I am always amazed how strong especially the main legs are. > There are always better solutions, but at the end of the day it doesn't > really make any difference. The only perfect aircraft I have ever seen is > the Stemme 10 motorglider, and maybe that applies to high performance > gliders in general. > > Karl do not archive > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:01:52 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. Garry=2C You are right. I never did a wheelbarrow landing. But it happened to me in a landing attempt in very severe gusting with 90 degree crosswind condition s. The gusts were throwing me about like a pingpong ball. And one gust 'thr ew' me down with such force that I was sure I had lost my landing gear. Had I continued with my landing I would have been a writeoff. I discovered muc h later that one of the exhaust pipes had come off=2C because one of the we lded spring hooks had come off first. Karl do not archive > From: garrys@tampabay.rr.com > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failur e. Europa Flyer Mag. > Date: Sat=2C 18 Apr 2009 08:25:55 -0400 > > > With no disrespect to anyone=2C it baffles me as to how many Europa pilot s > continue to land nosewheel first (wheelbarrow). The first thing you learn > in basic flight landing training is to hold the nosewheel off for as long as > you can=2C until the elevator looses the power to hold it up. The Europa > trigear is so easy and forgiving it practically lands itself. In 45 years > of flying I've never touched down the nosewheel first. Can someone explai n > to me how this keeps happening? Again=2C I mean no disrespect to > anyone....I'm just wondering if there's something I'm overlooking here. > > Garry Stout > 914 Trigear > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert C Harrison" > To: > Sent: Saturday=2C April 18=2C 2009 5:49 AM > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failur e. > Europa Flyer Mag. > > > > > > > > Hi! Craig. > > I should say I was the first to experience this problem and I'm not > > ashamed to admit=2C it had a fair share of wheel barrow jobs. > > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:55 AM PST US From: "Gerry Cole" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trim Damper Assembly Fred, I have an email from Andy Draper, dated may, 2002, which could be out of date by now. This states: The correct force that the friction damper should resist is 5kg +0/-1kg at 90 degrees to the long arm (the one that the servo attaches to) At the time I thought this was a hell of a load and I settled for the lower end of the range. Since you still have the top off, you could check that the trim tab servo internal limit stop on full nose up trim cuts in before the trim bellcrank hits the tab link rod when full up elevator is applied ( a very unlikely combination I know). On my early mono wheel kit I had to shorten the two plastic clevis forks by 3mm so that they could bottom out when screwed on to the servo link rod. Maybe the factory made this mod on later kits. Gerry Cole ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Klein To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 2009 6:37 PM Subject: Europa-List: Trim Damper Assembly All, Before bonding on the top, I want to be certain that the Trim Damper Assembly is properly adjusted, particularly w/ respect to the amount of friction when it moves in the slot in TS01. As far as I can tell, the Build Manual does not address this question, yet it would appear to be key to having the pitch control system function properly without burning up the pitch trim motor. I can't seem to get my mind around the function of this seemingly elaborate confusion of spring, tube, thru bolt, and nuts of various sizes...it's complexity suggests that, when properly adjusted, it performs a critical function. I reference Fig. 2, p. 19-2, and Step 4 & Fig. 6 on p. 19-4. Can anyone please enlighten me on what proper adjustment would be? Thanks in advance, Fred -- ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:39:31 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. Out of interest you may like to know that the main gear legs are the same as used on the RV family. On the other hand, the nose wheel (and Mono) are made by a wheel chair manufacturer. Just a thought Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 250 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:53 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Brake pads Best bet long term is to remove the pads and replace them IMHO. craig ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:02 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: FW: Europa-List: Brake pads (I hit the wrong key a second ago!) Thank you, Craig, I think that's the route to follow. Have ordered a new set from Europa. Regards, Svein Best bet long term is to remove the pads and replace them IMHO. craig ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:27:21 AM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment On Apr 18, 2009, at 6:47 AM, Paul McAllister wrote: > I suppose this is getting bit off topic, but I was wondering who has > had the opportunity to fly a Stemme 10. > > I got the chance a couple of years ago to fly one for an hour and to > spend quite some time looking it over. What a wonderful piece of > engineering. It was as almost that the designer would accept no > aerodynamic compromises and the engineering had to accommodate it. Paul, Never having heard of a Stemme 10, I went into cyberspace, viewed the company website, and found this interesting article at: http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/soaring ...a truly extraordinary flying machine... After seeing the photos of the folding propeller however, my mind went back in time to my proud and vain relationship w/ a '73 BMW 3.0 CS coupe, a love/hate relationship within which I did years of hard time. Though bought off the dealer's showroom, I developed a healthy scepticism for vaunted German engineering...as BMW remains a viable enterprise, I have no doubt that they have learned how to design, build, and service an automobile. Your pal w/ the 2 Stemmes has the right idea. Fred do not archive -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:05:38 PM PST US From: david miller Subject: Re: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment Karl / Paul, Wasn't it a Stemme with a 914 that had the in flight fire, and caused a re-think of the evans coolant ? Karl, - any thought of coming down for the Canadian Aviation Expo in Hamilton on May 2 & 3 ? Met up with Chris Staines and Jan Volcic in their monos today, we should all be there on the Saturday, but then it's just down the road for us. Dave On 18-Apr-09, at 9:47 AM, Paul McAllister wrote: > I suppose this is getting bit off topic, but I was wondering who > has had the opportunity to fly a Stemme 10. > > I got the chance a couple of years ago to fly one for an hour and > to spend quite some time looking it over. What a wonderful piece > of engineering. It was as almost that the designer would accept no > aerodynamic compromises and the engineering had to accommodate it. > > The owner is a very wealthy business man and he owns two. I asked > him why and he told me that the maintenance issues generally always > meant that one was in for repairs and since he didn't want to be > inconvenienced by aircraft availability he bought a second Stemme. > Nice to be some people I guess. > > Beautiful aircraft to fly, and a lot of fascinating engineering > ideas went into it. > > Paul > > do not archive > > On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 5:22 AM, Karl Heindl wrote: > Frans, > > I think there is a lot of truth in what you are saying. Remember, > the trigear was an afterthought and probably put together quickly > to get the sales. And that was before they had ironed the bugs out > of the mono. > All the same, I am always amazed how strong especially the main > legs are. There are always better solutions, but at the end of the > day it doesn't really make any difference. The only perfect > aircraft I have ever seen is the Stemme 10 motorglider, and maybe > that applies to high performance gliders in general. > > Karl do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:37 PM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. Garry it's like landing gear up! There's those that's done it and those that are going to do it ! Sooner or later some mysterious gust of wind will instill a bounce or some unexpected happening and you will get caught out. I can assure you the ones I have done were not by intent. Probably now you have said how difficult it is to do one you may have one destined for you, watch out ! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry Sent: 18 April 2009 13:26 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. With no disrespect to anyone, it baffles me as to how many Europa pilots continue to land nosewheel first (wheelbarrow). The first thing you learn in basic flight landing training is to hold the nosewheel off for as long as you can, until the elevator looses the power to hold it up. The Europa trigear is so easy and forgiving it practically lands itself. In 45 years of flying I've never touched down the nosewheel first. Can someone explain to me how this keeps happening? Again, I mean no disrespect to anyone....I'm just wondering if there's something I'm overlooking here. Garry Stout 914 Trigear ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert C Harrison" Sent: Saturday, April 18, 2009 5:49 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trike nose wheel castor spindle and yoke failure. Europa Flyer Mag. > > > Hi! Craig. > I should say I was the first to experience this problem and I'm not > ashamed to admit, it had a fair share of wheel barrow jobs. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:06 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment Hey Fred=2C I think you are jumping to conclusions again. What has a Rotax on fire got to do with german engineering. I am no expert on BMW=2C but I did own one o nce when I lived in Libya. The local agency gave first class service and I don't remember any real problems. Just couldn't help myself. Karl > From: fklein@orcasonline.com > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment > Date: Sat=2C 18 Apr 2009 10:25:48 -0700 > > > > On Apr 18=2C 2009=2C at 6:47 AM=2C Paul McAllister wrote: > > > I suppose this is getting bit off topic=2C but I was wondering who has > > had the opportunity to fly a Stemme 10. > > > > I got the chance a couple of years ago to fly one for an hour and to > > spend quite some time looking it over. What a wonderful piece of > > engineering. It was as almost that the designer would accept no > > aerodynamic compromises and the engineering had to accommodate it. > > Paul=2C > > Never having heard of a Stemme 10=2C I went into cyberspace=2C viewed the > company website=2C and found this interesting article at: > > http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/soaring > > ...a truly extraordinary flying machine... > > After seeing the photos of the folding propeller however=2C my mind went > back in time to my proud and vain relationship w/ a '73 BMW 3.0 CS > coupe=2C a love/hate relationship within which I did years of hard time. > Though bought off the dealer's showroom=2C I developed a healthy > scepticism for vaunted German engineering...as BMW remains a viable > enterprise=2C I have no doubt that they have learned how to design=2C > build=2C and service an automobile. > > Your pal w/ the 2 Stemmes has the right idea. > > Fred > > do not archive > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by MailScanner=2C and is > believed to be clean. > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:18:38 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment Dave=2C I don't think I will be ready in early May. I am in the middle of a number of upgrades=2C and I need to then check it all out etc. I thought the Expo was in Oshawa in June ? That one would be doable. Karl do not archive From: loboloda@execulink.com Subject: Re: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment Karl / Paul=2C Wasn't it a Stemme with a 914 that had the in flight fire=2C and caused a r e-think of the evans coolant ? Karl=2C - any thought of coming down for the Canadian Aviation Expo in Ham ilton on May 2 & 3 ? Met up with Chris Staines and Jan Volcic in their monos today=2C we should all be there on the Saturday=2C but then it's just down the road for us. Dave On 18-Apr-09=2C at 9:47 AM=2C Paul McAllister wrote: I suppose this is getting bit off topic=2C but I was wondering who has had the opportunity to fly a Stemme 10. I got the chance a couple of years ago to fly one for an hour and to spend quite some time looking it over. What a wonderful piece of engineering. I t was as almost that the designer would accept no aerodynamic compromises a nd the engineering had to accommodate it. The owner is a very wealthy business man and he owns two. I asked him why and he told me that the maintenance issues generally always meant that one was in for repairs and since he didn't want to be inconvenienced by aircraf t availability he bought a second Stemme. Nice to be some people I guess. Beautiful aircraft to fly=2C and a lot of fascinating engineering ideas wen t into it. Paul do not archive On Sat=2C Apr 18=2C 2009 at 5:22 AM=2C Karl Heindl wrote: Frans=2C I think there is a lot of truth in what you are saying. Remember=2C the tri gear was an afterthought and probably put together quickly to get the sales . And that was before they had ironed the bugs out of the mono. All the same=2C I am always amazed how strong especially the main legs are. There are always better solutions=2C but at the end of the day it doesn't really make any difference. The only perfect aircraft I have ever seen is t he Stemme 10 motorglider=2C and maybe that applies to high performance glid ers in general. Karl do not archive href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?Europa-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/con tribution ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:36 PM PST US From: david miller Subject: Re: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment Karl, No, it's been switched, Hamilton is a better location, and the Canadian Warplane Heritage Museum is there. i think the intent was that the Lancaster would be flying, but I read somewhere they were grounded as they need new constant speed props $100,000 to fix ? Dave Do not archive On 18-Apr-09, at 6:18 PM, Karl Heindl wrote: > Dave, > > I don't think I will be ready in early May. I am in the middle of a > number of upgrades, and I need to then check it all out etc. I > thought the Expo was in Oshawa in June ? That one would be doable. > > Karl do not archive > > > From: loboloda@execulink.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment > Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 16:13:02 -0400 > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > Karl / Paul, > > Wasn't it a Stemme with a 914 that had the in flight fire, and > caused a re-think of the evans coolant ? > > Karl, - any thought of coming down for the Canadian Aviation Expo > in Hamilton on May 2 & 3 ? > Met up with Chris Staines and Jan Volcic in their monos today, we > should all be there on the Saturday, but then it's just down the > road for us. > > Dave > > > On 18-Apr-09, at 9:47 AM, Paul McAllister wrote: > > I suppose this is getting bit off topic, but I was wondering who > has had the opportunity to fly a Stemme 10. > > I got the chance a couple of years ago to fly one for an hour and > to spend quite some time looking it over. What a wonderful piece > of engineering. It was as almost that the designer would accept no > aerodynamic compromises and the engineering had to accommodate it. > > The owner is a very wealthy business man and he owns two. I asked > him why and he told me that the maintenance issues generally always > meant that one was in for repairs and since he didn't want to be > inconvenienced by aircraft availability he bought a second Stemme. > Nice to be some people I guess. > > Beautiful aircraft to fly, and a lot of fascinating engineering > ideas went into it. > > Paul > > do not archive > > On Sat, Apr 18, 2009 at 5:22 AM, Karl Heindl wrote: > Frans, > > I think there is a lot of truth in what you are saying. Remember, > the trigear was an afterthought and probably put together quickly > to get the sales. And that was before they had ironed the bugs out > of the mono. > All the same, I am always amazed how strong especially the main > legs are. There are always better solutions, but at the end of the > day it doesn't really make any difference. The only perfect > aircraft I have ever seen is the Stemme 10 motorglider, and maybe > that applies to high performance gliders in general. > > Karl do not archive > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http:// > www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// > www.matronics.com/contribution > > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > ronics.com > ww.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:10 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment On Apr 18, 2009, at 3:14 PM, Karl Heindl wrote: > What has a Rotax on fire got to do with german engineering. Karl, I make no connection between "Rotax on fire" and "german engineering"...my intention was to link what appeared to be an extraordinarily complex design for the Stemme's magically disappearing propeller with where it came from and who designed it. Paul had mentioned that his friend needed two of the ships in order to ensure that one was airworthy due, apparently, to required high levels of maintenance. I have no idea what is or are the sources for the high maintenance of the Stemme; but if that's what it takes to keep one flying, the engineering deserves some scrutiny, however elegant, innovative, or precise it may be. I certainly would agree that the Stemme is an extraordinarily beautiful aircraft...apparently without compromises in its design. Having been called by my nickname, Fritz, for most of my life, I cast no aspersions on things Germanic, but I concluded over the 30 years that I kept my Bimmer that some of the vaunted german engineering was mythic...there's a reason we sometimes use the term, "over-engineered". You wrote, > I am no expert on BMW, but I did own one once when I lived in Libya. > The local agency gave first class service and I don't remember any > real problems. By any chance, did the agency supply a mechanic to ride in your back seat?...just kidding Karl...as I said, I have no doubt that BMW makes a fine automobile today, and has been for some time. Cheers, Fred (Fritz) do not archive -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:39:04 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment Fred Klein wrote: > > On Apr 18, 2009, at 3:14 PM, Karl Heindl wrote: > >> What has a Rotax on fire got to do with german engineering. > > Karl, > > I make no connection between "Rotax on fire" and "german > engineering"...my intention was to link what appeared to be an > extraordinarily complex design for the Stemme's magically disappearing > propeller with where it came from and who designed it. Paul had > mentioned that his friend needed two of the ships in order to ensure > that one was airworthy due, apparently, to required high levels of > maintenance. > > Fred (Fritz) Fred It's a taildragger and not many Americans are skilled at landing taildraggers now, nor English if it comes to that. !52s are too easy to fly so not good trainers. I had a Stemme S10 on an old flight sim, wasn't half difficult to land it without busting a prop or knocking the gear of it! ;-) Graham ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:41:31 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment Fred=2C Just having some fun. We seldom get to hear the real reasons for various fa ilures on any aircraft. For example=2C it would be quite easy to condemn the Europa=2C if you picke d on a few incidents. The new A380's of Saudi Airlines are frequently grounded because of teethin g problems. The folding/retracting propeller is actually a French patent. Apart from th at=2C I don't know anything about the Stemme. BTW=2C your BMW is a much sought after classis nowadays. You should have ke pt it. Karl From: fklein@orcasonline.com Subject: Re: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment On Apr 18=2C 2009=2C at 3:14 PM=2C Karl Heindl wrote: What has a Rotax on fire got to do with german engineering. Karl=2C I make no connection between "Rotax on fire" and "german engineering"...my intention was to link what appeared to be an extraordinarily complex design for the Stemme's magically disappearing propeller with where it came from and who designed it. Paul had mentioned that his friend needed two of the s hips in order to ensure that one was airworthy due=2C apparently=2C to requ ired high levels of maintenance. I have no idea what is or are the sources for the high maintenance of the Stemme=3B but if that's what it takes to ke ep one flying=2C the engineering deserves some scrutiny=2C however elegant =2C innovative=2C or precise it may be. I certainly would agree that the St emme is an extraordinarily beautiful aircraft...apparently without compromi ses in its design. Having been called by my nickname=2C Fritz=2C for most of my life=2C I cast no aspersions on things Germanic=2C but I concluded over the 30 years that I kept my Bimmer that some of the vaunted german engineering was mythic... there's a reason we sometimes use the term=2C "over-engineered". You wrote=2C I am no expert on BMW=2C but I did own one once when I lived in Libya. The local agency gave first class service and I don't remember any real problem s. By any chance=2C did the agency supply a mechanic to ride in your back seat ?...just kidding Karl...as I said=2C I have no doubt that BMW makes a fine automobile today=2C and has been for some time. Cheers=2C Fred (Fritz) do not archive -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner=2C and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 07:07:30 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List:Stemme 10 Comment On Apr 18, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Karl Heindl wrote: > BTW, your BMW is a much sought after classis nowadays. Karl...yes, indeed it is, for its style but certainly not for its coachwork, and one of those seekers made an offer I couldn't refuse...for me, it was the time to move on. It got so that I couldn't park it in the city without returning to find business cards w/ cryptic messages under the windshield wiper. Besides it having been a somewhat limited edition, the major factor in its rarity is that they are absolute rust buckets; they were built w/ 100% recycled steel and someone neglected to realize that in the recycling process, all the zinc was leached out and not replaced...at least that's what Gunter, the lead service rep at the dealer told me. The ones you see today are monuments to the miracles of exotic epoxies, but I'll never forget the thrill of moving thru the gears on the 5 speed...oh yeah. Fred do not archive -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:17:40 PM PST US From: "JR Gowing" Subject: Europa-List: Europa Mono, 912 S, Increasing oil Cooling For those who have lowered the cooler into the cooling duct - what BSP (Bri tish Standard Pipe) fittings did you use please-could you do it with one or a series of pipe fittings on the in and out flow to cooler=3F JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Davies To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 6:13 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Aileron setting and more Hi Bruno, From bitter experience (many wasted hours) I would recommend reading the latest factory build manual pages and following it to the letter. Provided you do every stage of the aileron rigging process, it will describe how to make adjustments to obtain the correct angles. Setting the disconnect plat es vertical to a centre line drawn between the wing spar pins and adjusting the individual aileron up stops correctly before fitting the wings to the plane provides a good starting point. Get these angles wrong and nothing w orks as it should. Regards Brian Davies --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-se rver@matronics.com] On Behalf Of UVTReith Sent: 15 April 2009 11:41 To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Europa-List: Aileron setting and more Hi Europa Family, At present I am working on fine trimming, weight and balance etc. When I measured the angles of my ailerons, they are quite different and n eed correct setting. How can I do the adjustments of this=3F Thanks for help. Best Regards, Bruno Reith / UVT Reith XS Mono href==22http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FEuropa-List=22>http://www.matronhref ==22http://forums.matronics.com=22>http://forums.matronics.com href==22http://www.matronics.com/contribution=22>http://www.matronics.com/c 1.56/2058 - Release Date: 04/15/09 06:34:00 =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - The Europa-List Email Forum - =5F-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse =5F-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription, =5F-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, =5F-= Photoshare, and much much more: =5F- =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator=3FEuropa-List =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - =5F-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums! =5F- =5F-= --> http://forums.matronics.com =5F- =5F-=========================================================== =5F-= - List Contribution Web Site - =5F-= Thank you for your generous support! =5F-= -Matt Dralle, List Admin. =5F-= --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution =5F-=========================================================== --------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 9 19:52:00 -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 10:17:41 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Wing root plumbing From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Anyone have a description and or pictures of how you keep wing root wire and pneumatic plumbingout of harms way during rigging wings, and neat when wings are rigged? Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 11:29:40 PM PST US From: "craig bastin" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wing root plumbing one arrangement I saw had the fittings hard mounted on the side of the A/C with the wiring bundle attached to a bungee cord inside the wing. The wing sides in till your about 6 inches out, you hooked up the cable with a method of positive retention of your choice (snap on, screw in etc) then, as you side the wing in to lock it in place the bungee retracts the cables inside the wing. I believe you could do simmilar with your pitot lines but hook the bungee straight the fuse, so the air lines arent taking the bungee load, and have the lines tied to the bungee with a small amount of slack. craig -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sent: Sunday, 19 April 2009 3:14 PM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Europa-List: Wing root plumbing Anyone have a description and or pictures of how you keep wing root wire and pneumatic plumbing out of harms way during rigging wings, and neat when wings are rigged? Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:15 PM PST US From: "Robert C Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Wing root plumbing Hi! Ron Nothing difficult or complicated. The pito pipes being male and female (to ensure they are connected correctly ) are clipped together so no bugs crawl in . The electrical wires just hang down say 6" then you part enter each wing in turn and then do the connects to the fuselage just prior to pushing the wing home. Any slack is contained within the wing fairing close out when rigged. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sent: 19 April 2009 06:14 Subject: Europa-List: Wing root plumbing Anyone have a description and or pictures of how you keep wing root wire and pneumatic plumbing out of harms way during rigging wings, and neat when wings are rigged? Thx. 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