Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:29 AM - Re: male threaded drill bits (G-IANI)
2. 01:41 AM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (G-IANI)
3. 01:54 AM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (Brian Davies)
4. 01:54 AM - tailwheel "old"style (rob zeelenberg)
5. 02:18 AM - Re : tailwheel "old"style (NEEL Jean Philippe)
6. 02:39 AM - Re: male threaded drill bits (Rowland Carson)
7. 02:39 AM - Re: male threaded drill bits (Rowland Carson)
8. 03:12 AM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (Frans Veldman)
9. 03:19 AM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (zwakie)
10. 03:28 AM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (Marcel Zwakenberg)
11. 03:33 AM - Fw: instruments (Robert Borger)
12. 04:06 AM - Re: Fw: instruments (Herve Chaussures)
13. 04:33 AM - Re: Fw: instruments (Robert Borger)
14. 04:51 AM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (Frans Veldman)
15. 05:13 AM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (Graham Singleton)
16. 05:56 AM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (zwakie)
17. 05:56 AM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (zwakie)
18. 07:39 AM - Rotax 914 Spark Plugs. (Mike Parkin)
19. 09:40 AM - Threaded connector for tailwheel (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
20. 10:07 AM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (Robert Hatton)
21. 10:22 AM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (Karl Heindl)
22. 10:28 AM - Re: male threaded drill bits (Robert Hatton)
23. 11:08 AM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (Gilles Thesee)
24. 11:13 AM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (Brian Davies)
25. 11:55 AM - Re: male threaded drill bits (Rowland Carson)
26. 01:03 PM - Re: Threaded connector for tailwheel (Paul McAllister)
27. 01:05 PM - Re: Rotax 914 Spark Plugs. (Paul McAllister)
28. 03:24 PM - Re: tailwheel "old"style (JR Gowing)
29. 03:24 PM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (zwakie)
30. 03:27 PM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (zwakie)
31. 03:36 PM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (zwakie)
32. 04:49 PM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (Graham Singleton)
33. 05:26 PM - Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL (Karl Heindl)
Message 1
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| Subject: | male threaded drill bits |
Rowland
Tightfittools now have a web site at Tightfittools.com. They are very
helpful and post parts to the UK.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
Marcel
I do not see any problems with the principals of your fuel layout.
In practice the problem will be to get a good location for the transducer in
the engine bay. As the compiler of the mod I am hampered a little by the
fact that I have a 914. This means I have to have two sensors and (being a
Trigear) I have space in the centre tunnel to mount them.
I would be pleased to see how you mount the transducer. If this works well
I will be happy to add additional advice to the modification document.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
The one disadvantage of the proposed fuel layout is that you will have
static fuel in the lines to the carbs when the engine is stopped. In very
hot conditions you could get fuel vaporisation in this section of the line
on the ground. Running the electric fuel pump will not clear it because
there will be no flow.
Brian Davies kit 454, Trigear 912ULS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI
Sent: 22 April 2009 09:39
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL
Marcel
I do not see any problems with the principals of your fuel layout.
In practice the problem will be to get a good location for the transducer in
the engine bay. As the compiler of the mod I am hampered a little by the
fact that I have a 914. This means I have to have two sensors and (being a
Trigear) I have space in the centre tunnel to mount them.
I would be pleased to see how you mount the transducer. If this works well
I will be happy to add additional advice to the modification document.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
16:48:00
Message 4
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| Subject: | tailwheel "old"style |
Hi all,
I,m looking for a Europa Classic mk 1 tailwheel-ass
"old-style"especially the main- fitting TW01and the pivotshaft TW03 to
be excact,
are there still builders from the first kits delivered who have these
items or the whole ass. still lying in the attic ? please contact Rob
Zeelenberg #157 (PHPOP) robzeel@ision.nl
Message 5
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| Subject: | tailwheel "old"style |
Bonjour Rob,=0AI have these items. A pleasure if they can help you=0A=0AJea
n-Philippe Neel=0AF-PSLH Kit N=B0273=0AGrenoble =0AFrance=0A=0A=0A=0A______
__________________________=0ADe : rob zeelenberg <robzeel@ision.nl>=0A=C0 :
europa-list@matronics.com=0AEnvoy=E9 le : Mercredi, 22 Avril 2009, 10h54mn
22s=0AObjet-: Europa-List: tailwheel "old"style=0A=0A=0AHi all,=0AI,m lo
oking for a Europa Classic mk 1 tailwheel-ass "old-style"especially the mai
n- fitting TW01and-the pivotshaft TW03 to be excact,=0Aare there still bu
ilders from the first kits delivered who have these items or the whole ass.
still lying in the attic ? please contact Rob Zeelenberg #157 (PHPOP) robz
=======================0A=0A=0A
Message 6
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| Subject: | male threaded drill bits |
At 2009-04-22 09:27 +0100 G-IANI wrote:
>Tightfittools now have a web site at Tightfittools.com. They are very
>helpful and post parts to the UK
Ian - thanks! I'll investigate. Glad to hear that some US outfits
recognise potential markets outside their own borders!
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/
| <rowil@clara.net> ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: male threaded drill bits |
At 2009-04-22 09:18 +0300 danbish wrote:
>I got mine at Amazon.com, common sizes in a set for US$17
Dan - thanks for the thought, but Amazon.com (like many rather
parochial firms in USA) don't deliver outside USA, and Amazon.co.uk
don't stock those drill bits.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/
| <rowil@clara.net> ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
Brian Davies wrote:
> The one disadvantage of the proposed fuel layout is that you will have
> static fuel in the lines to the carbs when the engine is stopped. In very
> hot conditions you could get fuel vaporisation in this section of the line
> on the ground. Running the electric fuel pump will not clear it because
> there will be no flow.
As far as I understand, Marcels intention is not to block the return
line, but just not metering the return flow. So there will be no static
fuel in the lines, and the electric fuel pump will clear fuel fapor,
just as with the original lay-out.
The question is, how does ignoring the return flow affect the accuracy
of the fuel flow instrument? It depends on the quantity of the return
flow of course. Is there any data about this? Maybe in the rotax
maintenance manuals?
I can't tell as I have a 914, and a 914 has a different fuel setup with
a very significant return flow.
--
Frans Veldman
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
[quote:1fbd4ff5cf="B Davies"]The one disadvantage of the proposed fuel layout is
that you will have static fuel in the lines to the carbs when the engine is
stopped. In very hot conditions you could get fuel vaporisation in this section
of the line on the ground. Running the electric fuel pump will not clear it
because there will be no flow.[/quote:1fbd4ff5cf]
Good point you have there Brian, I did not yet think of that!
As you state, this can become an issue in hot conditions on the ground, so I would
not expect this to be a flight-safety issue. I recognize that restarting the
engine might be troublesome (or even impossible?) in those circumstances.
If I take this approach I will therefore have to keep the 'static fuel section'
as short in length as possible and, in addition, take the best possible measures
to minimize the risk of fuel vaporizing in that section and/or even provide
some means of cooling after shutdown.
Clearly some more thinking will be required. All recommendations are still more
than welcome though!
Marcel
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 10
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| Subject: | Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
Hi Frans,
> As far as I understand, Marcels intention is not to block the return
> line, but just not metering the return flow.
Indeed that was my initial plan, but I am now exploring to see if I can
come up with accurate flow measuring using a single sender (as per your
earlier recommendation).
> So there will be no static fuel in the lines, and the electric fuel
> pump will clear fuel fapor, just as with the original lay-out.
Have another look at the schema that I posted, and note that the return
line is T-ed off at an earlier stage than in the original layout: my
schema Tees it off between mechanical pump and both carbs, the original
layout tees it off 'beyond' the carbs.
In the original layout, there are only two short pieces of line where
vapor-locking can occur (the two short T-ed off appr. 25cms segments
directly to each carb). In the schema I posted there is an *additional*
segment of fuel line where vapor-locking can occur (the guestimated 40
cms segment connecting the two carbs together).
> The question is, how does ignoring the return flow affect the accuracy
> of the fuel flow instrument? It depends on the quantity of the return
> flow of course. Is there any data about this? Maybe in the rotax
> maintenance manuals?
That's indeed the question I so far have not found an answer to. The
only thing I was told by different people is that return flow varies
with RPM, but no hard numbers on return flow have made it my way. So
basically I *know* there will be an inaccuracy when ignoring return
flow, but *do not know* just how large this inaccuracy is (hence my
attempt to come up with something better for a single sender setup).
Marcel
Message 11
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| Subject: | Fwd: instruments |
To my French speaking friends,
Could anyone translate this for me please. Babelfish doesn't seem to
want to produce a reasonable translation.
Thanks,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
Aircraft Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Daniel Ducrout <spad@online.de>
> Date: April 22, 2009 0:21:22 CDT
> To: rlborger@mac.com
> Subject: instruments
>
> Bonjour monsieur.
> pouvez vous m=B4envoyer les instruments a partir du 1 mai car je
> doit m=B4absenter,pour des raisons de travail .Si vous ne le
> souhaitez pas , je me d=E9brouillerais.
> mon adresse Daniel Ducrout 4lot CALLOT 70180 MEMBREY
> Tenez moi au courant de la date d=B4envoi merci D.D.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Fwd: instruments |
Hi Bob,
Translation.
Could you please send the instrument as from the 1st of may as I am away
with work,if you cannot I will find a way .find address below.please let
me
know when you are sending.
Regards
pa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]
On Behalf Of Robert Borger
Sent: 22 April 2009 11:30
Subject: Europa-List: Fwd: instruments
To my French speaking friends,
Could anyone translate this for me please. Babelfish doesn't seem to
want
to produce a reasonable translation.
Thanks,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
Aircraft Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Begin forwarded message:
From: Daniel Ducrout <spad@online.de>
Subject: instruments
Bonjour monsieur.
pouvez vous m=B4envoyer les instruments a partir du 1 mai car je doit
m=B4absenter,pour des raisons de travail .Si vous ne le souhaitez pas ,
je me
d=E9brouillerais.
mon adresse Daniel Ducrout 4lot CALLOT 70180 MEMBREY
Tenez moi au courant de la date d=B4envoi merci D.D.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Fwd: instruments |
To those who have replied to my request:
Merci beaucoup.
Now I just wish I knew what instrument Daniel was referring to.
Best regards,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
Aircraft Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Apr 22, 2009, at 6:04, Herve Chaussures wrote:
> Hi Bob,
> Translation.
> Could you please send the instrument as from the 1st of may as I am
> away with work,if you cannot I will find a way .find address
> below.please let me know when you are sending.
> Regards
>
> pa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> ] On Behalf Of Robert Borger
> Sent: 22 April 2009 11:30
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Fwd: instruments
>
> To my French speaking friends,
>
> Could anyone translate this for me please. Babelfish doesn't seem
> to want to produce a reasonable translation.
>
> Thanks,
> Bob Borger
> Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
> http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
> Aircraft Flying!
> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
> Corinth, TX 76208
> Home: 940-497-2123
> Cel: 817-992-1117
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
>
> From: Daniel Ducrout <spad@online.de>
> Date: April 22, 2009 0:21:22 CDT
> To: rlborger@mac.com
> Subject: instruments
>
> Bonjour monsieur.
> pouvez vous m=B4envoyer les instruments a partir du 1 mai car je
> doit m=B4absenter,pour des raisons de travail .Si vous ne le
> souhaitez pas , je me d=E9brouillerais.
> mon adresse Daniel Ducrout 4lot CALLOT 70180 MEMBREY
> Tenez moi au courant de la date d=B4envoi merci D.D.
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
Marcel Zwakenberg wrote:
>
> Hi Frans,
>
>> As far as I understand, Marcels intention is not to block the return
>> line, but just not metering the return flow.
>
> Indeed that was my initial plan, but I am now exploring to see if I can
> come up with accurate flow measuring using a single sender (as per your
> earlier recommendation).
>
>> So there will be no static fuel in the lines, and the electric fuel
>> pump will clear fuel fapor, just as with the original lay-out.
>
> Have another look at the schema that I posted, and note that the return
> line is T-ed off at an earlier stage than in the original layout: my
> schema Tees it off between mechanical pump and both carbs, the original
> layout tees it off 'beyond' the carbs.
Did you sent an attachment? I did not receive it.
If it is your plan to block the return line, I agree with Brian that
this would be a bad idea. Especially at idle the fuel consumption is
low, and the fuel will remain quite some time in an environment with
temperatures above its boiling point. You would well risk to make a not
so pleasant discovery at the subsequent take-off run, just above the
treshold at rwy 28 of EHHO. ;-)
Note that this is not about the additional fuel line where vaporization
can occur, but about the fact that blocking the return flow will cause
the fuel to heat up much more than original, and making vapor lock much
more likely.
> That's indeed the question I so far have not found an answer to. The
> only thing I was told by different people is that return flow varies
> with RPM, but no hard numbers on return flow have made it my way. So
> basically I *know* there will be an inaccuracy when ignoring return
> flow, but *do not know* just how large this inaccuracy is (hence my
> attempt to come up with something better for a single sender setup).
If I understand correctly from earlier conversations, you already bought
the second fuel flow sensor. So why not fit it temporarily in the return
line, measure what the return flow is, and then take it away again and
implement a correction factor to the single flow sensor?
--
Frans Veldman
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
The question is, how does ignoring the return flow affect the accuracy
>> of the fuel flow instrument? It depends on the quantity of the return
>> flow of course. Is there any data about this? Maybe in the rotax
>> maintenance manuals?
>>
>
> That's indeed the question I so far have not found an answer to. The
> only thing I was told by different people is that return flow varies
> with RPM, but no hard numbers on return flow have made it my way. So
> basically I *know* there will be an inaccuracy when ignoring return
> flow, but *do not know* just how large this inaccuracy is (hence my
> attempt to come up with something better for a single sender setup).
>
> Marcel
>
Marcel
The return flow does not affect your fuel flow to the engine and that is
what you are measuring. So you can forget about it with this configuration
Graham
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
[quote:e221de843a="grahamsingleton at bti..."]The return flow does not affect your
fuel flow to the engine and that is what you are measuring. So you can forget
about it with this configuration[/quote:e221de843a]
This was (part of) my motivation for wanting an accurate FF measure with just one
sender, and doesn't discuss the solution you and Hans came up with.
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
[quote:9b0584091e="Frans Veldman"]If it is your plan to block the return line[/quote:9b0584091e]
Negative, no way I am going to block the return line.
[quote:9b0584091e="Frans Veldman"]You would well risk to make a not so pleasant
discovery at the subsequent take-off run, just above the treshold at rwy 28 of
EHHO. ;-)[/quote:9b0584091e]
Exactly why I am running this idea by the readers ;)
[quote:9b0584091e="Frans Veldman"]So why not fit it temporarily in the return
line, measure what the return flow is, and then take it away again and
implement a correction factor to the single flow sensor?[/quote:9b0584091e]
I would rather avoid having to go through that excersize, I felt there should be
a better way of accurate FF measuring with just one sender. That's why I came
up with the new schema (well, actually my brother and Graham S. came up with
it after some talks between my brother and myself, credit where credit's due!)
I will email you the schema that you did not receive.
Marcel
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 18
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| Subject: | Rotax 914 Spark Plugs. |
For all UK 914 owners.- Skydrive charge almost ten pounds for a 914 spark
plug.- If you haven't found Denso X27EPR-U9 spark plugs any cheaper.....
then go to:
http://www.camskill.co.uk/products.php?plid=m18b230s1387p5512
Just received 8 for a total of =A321.84 including postage and VAT.
Each plug =A32.48 inc VAT .........- who said Skydrive are shameless prof
iteers!!!!!
regards,
Mike
Message 19
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| Subject: | Threaded connector for tailwheel |
Anyone using a threaded connector instead of the supplied pear shaped clip
to connect to the tailwheel horn?
Details of what you are using
and how it is working out.
Here is my proposed setup (near
end):
http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album223&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Comments welcomed.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Message 20
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| Subject: | Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
Hello Graham,
I am following this thread for I shall also be looking at fitting a fuel
flow meter. Could I ask you to elaborate on your comment about ignoring the
return flow for you are only measuring the fuel to the engine. I think I
understand that with the placement of the Flowscan (from Marcel's the
schematic) no problem in measuring the fuel going to the engine. But with
the fuel coming back via the return line will that not eventually (after
going through the system) go back to the engine again via the Flowscan? The
question being, are the amounts so small not to worry about it and does this
just build in a safety margin? Sorry to sound thick on this, I am just
trying to get my head around what has been said so far and the schematic.
Robert
Robert Hatton
email: roberthatton1@googlemail.com
US Cell: +01 303 906 9395
UK Mobile: +44 79 66 184171
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
Singleton
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 1:12 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL
<grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
The question is, how does ignoring the return flow affect the accuracy
>> of the fuel flow instrument? It depends on the quantity of the return
>> flow of course. Is there any data about this? Maybe in the rotax
>> maintenance manuals?
>>
>
> That's indeed the question I so far have not found an answer to. The
> only thing I was told by different people is that return flow varies
> with RPM, but no hard numbers on return flow have made it my way. So
> basically I *know* there will be an inaccuracy when ignoring return
> flow, but *do not know* just how large this inaccuracy is (hence my
> attempt to come up with something better for a single sender setup).
>
> Marcel
>
Marcel
The return flow does not affect your fuel flow to the engine and that is
what you are measuring. So you can forget about it with this configuration
Graham
Message 21
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| Subject: | Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
Hi=2C
I am also very confused about what has been said so far. I will be installi
ng a FS450 fuel flow gadget=2C and it calls for transducers in the flow and
return lines. I am not interested in how much fuel is flowing to the engin
e=2C I am interested in the fuel consumption. And that consumption is the d
ifference between flow and return. Have I missed something ?
BTW=2C I am looking for another Floscan 201 A6 with a matching K-factor.
Karl
> From: roberthatton1@googlemail.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL
> Date: Wed=2C 22 Apr 2009 18:00:53 +0100
>
ail.com>
>
> Hello Graham=2C
>
> I am following this thread for I shall also be looking at fitting a fuel
> flow meter. Could I ask you to elaborate on your comment about ignoring t
he
> return flow for you are only measuring the fuel to the engine. I think I
> understand that with the placement of the Flowscan (from Marcel's the
> schematic) no problem in measuring the fuel going to the engine. But with
> the fuel coming back via the return line will that not eventually (after
> going through the system) go back to the engine again via the Flowscan? T
he
> question being=2C are the amounts so small not to worry about it and does
this
> just build in a safety margin? Sorry to sound thick on this=2C I am just
> trying to get my head around what has been said so far and the schematic.
>
>
> Robert
>
> Robert Hatton
> email: roberthatton1@googlemail.com
> US Cell: +01 303 906 9395
> UK Mobile: +44 79 66 184171
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
> Singleton
> Sent: Wednesday=2C April 22=2C 2009 1:12 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL
>
> <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>
> The question is=2C how does ignoring the return flow affect the accuracy
> >> of the fuel flow instrument? It depends on the quantity of the return
> >> flow of course. Is there any data about this? Maybe in the rotax
> >> maintenance manuals?
> >>
> >
> > That's indeed the question I so far have not found an answer to. The
> > only thing I was told by different people is that return flow varies
> > with RPM=2C but no hard numbers on return flow have made it my way. So
> > basically I *know* there will be an inaccuracy when ignoring return
> > flow=2C but *do not know* just how large this inaccuracy is (hence my
> > attempt to come up with something better for a single sender setup).
> >
> > Marcel
> >
> Marcel
> The return flow does not affect your fuel flow to the engine and that is
> what you are measuring. So you can forget about it with this configuratio
n
> Graham
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | male threaded drill bits |
Rowland,
If you still get stuck I am based in the US but would be happy to order the
items up for you and send them over. I have a UK Bank account and we could
pre-agree the costs etc. Although I hope the Tightfittools will be able to
help you.
Robert Hatton
email: roberthatton1@googlemail.com
US Cell: +01 303 906 9395
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rowland Carson
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 10:34 AM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: male threaded drill bits
At 2009-04-22 09:27 +0100 G-IANI wrote:
>Tightfittools now have a web site at Tightfittools.com. They are very
>helpful and post parts to the UK
Ian - thanks! I'll investigate. Glad to hear that some US outfits
recognise potential markets outside their own borders!
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/
| <rowil@clara.net> ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
Karl and all,
>
>
> I will be installing a FS450 fuel flow gadget, and it calls for
> transducers in the flow and return lines. I am not interested in how
> much fuel is flowing to the engine, I am interested in the fuel
> consumption. And that consumption is the difference between flow and
> return. Have I missed something ?
>
>
I've installed an FS450 and dual transducers with great success on a
Rotax 914.
Given the price tag I wouldn't call it a gadget ;-)
The main difference with the normlly aspirated 912S is, the 914 flows a
great amount of fuel to and from the fuel pressure regulator on the
engine, whereas the 912S only returns an unknown and variable, but
presumably limited, fuel quantity to the tank.
The 912S return flow is dependent on RPM (eccentric pump), power setting
(actual fuel consumption), boost pump operation, etc.. so one must
ponder what benefit is expected when installing a single transducer FF.
The proposed schematic may work, but it implies putting the delicate
turbine transducer very close to the engine, in the adverse engine
compartment environment.
Best regards,
--
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr
Message 24
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| Subject: | Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
No Karl, you have not missed anything. If you install the fuel system as
recommended by the factory on a Rotax 921, you need two transducers so that
the return flow is subtracted from the total flow- leaving you with fuel
consumption. If you change the fuel supply configuration so that the return
line starts before the fuel gets to the carbs, you can then have a single
feed to the carbs. The fuel flow in this single feed is the fuel
consumption of the engine.
Hope that helps.
Brian Davies
_____
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl
Sent: 22 April 2009 18:22
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL
Hi,
I am also very confused about what has been said so far. I will be
installing a FS450 fuel flow gadget, and it calls for transducers in the
flow and return lines. I am not interested in how much fuel is flowing to
the engine, I am interested in the fuel consumption. And that consumption is
the difference between flow and return. Have I missed something ?
BTW, I am looking for another Floscan 201 A6 with a matching K-factor.
Karl
> From: roberthatton1@googlemail.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL
> Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:00:53 +0100
>
<roberthatton1@googlemail.com>
>
> Hello Graham,
>
> I am following this thread for I shall also be looking at fitting a fuel
> flow meter. Could I ask you to elaborate on your comment about ignoring
the
> return flow for you are only measuring the fuel to the engine. I think I
> understand that with the placement of the Flowscan (from Marcel's the
> schematic) no problem in measuring the fuel going to the engine. But with
> the fuel coming back via the return line will that not eventually (after
> going through the system) go back to the engine again via the Flowscan?
The
> question being, are the amounts so small not to worry about it and does
this
> just build in a safety margin? Sorry to sound thick on this, I am just
> trying to get my head around what has been said so far and the schematic.
>
>
> Robert
>
> Robert Hatton
> email: roberthatton1@googlemail.com
> US Cell: +01 303 906 9395
> UK Mobile: +44 79 66 184171
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
> Singleton
> Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 1:12 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL
>
> <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>
> The question is, how does ignoring the return flow affect the accuracy
> >> of the fuel flow instrument? It depends on the quantity of the return
> >> flow of course. Is there any data about this? Maybe in the rotax
> >> maintenance manuals?
> >>
> >
> > That's indeed the question I so far have not found an answer to. The
> > only thing I was told by different people is that return flow varies
> > with RPM, but no hard numbers on return flow have made it my way. So
> > basically I *know* there will be an inaccuracy when ignoring return
> > flow, but *do not know* just how large this inaccuracy is (hence my
> > attempt to come up with something better for a single sender setup).
> >
> > Marcel
> >
> Marcel
> The return flow does not affect your fuel flow to the engine and that is
> what you are measuring. So you can forget about it with this configuration
> Graham
>
>
>
>
>
>======================
&g======
>
>
>
16:48:00
Message 25
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| Subject: | male threaded drill bits |
At 2009-04-22 18:27 +0100 Robert Hatton wrote:
>If you still get stuck I am based in the US but would be happy to order the
>items up for you and send them over
Robert - thanks, but I hope that won't now be needed. My posting was
made in some haste at the end of the day, and I ignored the obvious
approach of checking to see if the original supplier would deliver to
UK!
Fergus mentioned his difficulty with getting stuff to Canada, and the
TruTrak people tell me they have had a lot of hassles when trying to
despatch autopilot stuff to outside USA. However, a few drill bits
are unlikely to compromise homeland security.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/
| <rowil@clara.net> ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
Message 26
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|
| Subject: | Re: Threaded connector for tailwheel |
Hi Ron,
Early on in my flight testing one of the pear shaped clips opened up when
landing. I noticed a lot of slop in the rudder action when I taxied back.
The clip was very close to letting go. I replaced them with small
turnbuckles. I think I got them from AC Spruce. Interestingly enough the
clips on the springs on the inside were fine. I inspected them every flight
during the 40 hour fly off period but they gave of sign of being a problem.
I can only assume that I overstretched the clips when I fitted them tail
wheel horn as I do not know of any one else who has had this failure.
As fair as using the threaded connector instead, I would suggest you test
one to failure, along with the standard clip to make sure that it equal or
better in strength. The other thing to be aware of is that once they have
been subjected to a stretching load that they can be hard to undo.
Regards, Paul
Message 27
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|
| Subject: | Re: Rotax 914 Spark Plugs. |
Hi all,
For the US folks, www.sparkplugs.com can supply them for $2.39 each.
Question to the forum. I did hear of people using Iridum ? wire plugs in
there 914's and they seem to work really well. Does any one have
information on this ?
Regards, Paul
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: tailwheel "old"style |
Rob
I have the whole thing incl tyre and tube which I never bolted in, having g
one Singleton -
but it is on the opposite side of the world here in Australia
I am willing to give it to you if you prepay postage.
Let me know if you can't do better on your side of the world.
JR in Oz
Classic, xs FWF 912ULS
----- Original Message -----
From: rob zeelenberg
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 6:54 PM
Subject: Europa-List: tailwheel =22old=22style
Hi all,
I,m looking for a Europa Classic mk 1 tailwheel-ass =22old-style=22especially
the main- fitting TW01and the pivotshaft TW03 to be excact,
are there still builders from the first kits delivered who have these ite
ms or the whole ass. still lying in the attic =3F please contact Rob Zeelenbe
rg #157 (PHPOP) robzeel@ision.nl
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Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
[quote:7b02d7e77c="Barry"]The lines are insulated with reflective sleeve and I
have not had any problems. My fuel lines are however run along the joggle on the
cowling away from the engine heat.[/quote:7b02d7e77c]
Hi Barry,
Great to hear that we're trying to invent something new and untested here :wink:
!
Do you some pictures from your setup? I would highly appreciate seeing those if
you have them.
If you would also be so kind to tell me the exact type of reflective sleeve and
possible other parts you use, that would be awesome!
Thanks
Marcel
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
[quote:a9ceb294d7="Gilles.Thesee at ac-gr..."]-...but it implies putting the delicate
turbine transducer very close to the engine, in the adverse engine
compartment environment.[/quote:a9ceb294d7]
Correct, it's going to be in the 'engine bay' when using this schema. I presume
your "but..." is referring to more taking care being required to keep the transducer
as cool as possible?
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 31
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
Karl,
I hope Brian's explanation has taken away your confusion? Just to make sure, when
I stated "flowing to the engine" I meant what you refer to as "fuel consumption".
Sorry for having caused the confusion.
[quote:79c4c6d7a8="kheindl"]BTW, I am looking for another Floscan 201 A6 with a
matching K-factor.[/quote:79c4c6d7a8]
I have two brandnew 201B6 senders right now. If and when I decide to go with only
one, the other one will be coming up for sale. Once that happens I'll drop
another message on this board...
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
Robert Hatton wrote:
> Hello Graham,
>
> I am following this thread for I shall also be looking at fitting a fuel
> flow meter. Could I ask you to elaborate on your comment about ignoring the
> return flow for you are only measuring the fuel to the engine. I think I
> understand that with the placement of the Flowscan (from Marcel's the
> schematic) no problem in measuring the fuel going to the engine. But with
> the fuel coming back via the return line will that not eventually (after
> going through the system) go back to the engine again via the Flowscan? The
> question being, are the amounts so small not to worry about it and does this
> just build in a safety margin? Sorry to sound thick on this, I am just
> trying to get my head around what has been said so far and the schematic.
>
>
> Robert
Hi Robert
I'm beginning to doubt my own logic on this thread :-\ but just think
about it for a moment. What we need to know is how much fuel the engine
uses/burns. All the rest of the fuel goes back to the tank. If you place
the Floscan, (I know of no other sensor that is acceptable) so that the
only fuel that passes through it is burnt by the engine then isn't that
what we want to know?
If fuel comes out of the tank and then goes back to the tank it hasn't
been used so won't be used to calculate fuel burnt by the totaliser.So
we don't need to know that, do we??
Graham
Message 33
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| Subject: | Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL |
Brian=2C
I believe it helps a lot=2C but I have to think about it a little more. Are
you saying that I can change my plumbing and not use a transducer in the r
eturn line ? My fuel lines are as per factory recommendations apart from ga
scolator and location of gascolator and fuel pump.
It would save a great deal of money=3B the tr. is now $ 332.- from ACS. I t
ook advantage of the ACS discount plus the $ 175.- rebate from JPI=2C and p
ayed 'only' $310 for the complete FS450
single transducer kit.
What then is the LAA recommendation and what about Ian's mod submission to
the LAA ?
Cheers=2C Karl
From: bdavies@dircon.co.uk
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL
No Karl=2C you have not missed anything. If you install the fuel system as
recommended by the factory on a Rotax 921=2C you need two transducers so t
hat the return flow is subtracted from the total flow- leaving you with fue
l consumption. If you change the fuel supply configuration so that the ret
urn line starts before the fuel gets to the carbs=2C you can then have a si
ngle feed to the carbs. The fuel flow in this single feed is the fuel cons
umption of the engine.
Hope that helps.
Brian Davies
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-serv
er@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karl Heindl
Sent: 22 April 2009 18:22
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL
Hi=2C
I am also very confused about what has been said so far. I will be installi
ng a FS450 fuel flow gadget=2C and it calls for transducers in the flow and
return lines. I am not interested in how much fuel is flowing to the engin
e=2C I am interested in the fuel consumption. And that consumption is the d
ifference between flow and return. Have I missed something ?
BTW=2C I am looking for another Floscan 201 A6 with a matching K-factor.
Karl
> From: roberthatton1@googlemail.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL
> Date: Wed=2C 22 Apr 2009 18:00:53 +0100
>
ail.com>
>
> Hello Graham=2C
>
> I am following this thread for I shall also be looking at fitting a fuel
> flow meter. Could I ask you to elaborate on your comment about ignoring t
he
> return flow for you are only measuring the fuel to the engine. I think I
> understand that with the placement of the Flowscan (from Marcel's the
> schematic) no problem in measuring the fuel going to the engine. But with
> the fuel coming back via the return line will that not eventually (after
> going through the system) go back to the engine again via the Flowscan? T
he
> question being=2C are the amounts so small not to worry about it and does
this
> just build in a safety margin? Sorry to sound thick on this=2C I am just
> trying to get my head around what has been said so far and the schematic.
>
>
> Robert
>
> Robert Hatton
> email: roberthatton1@googlemail.com
> US Cell: +01 303 906 9395
> UK Mobile: +44 79 66 184171
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
> Singleton
> Sent: Wednesday=2C April 22=2C 2009 1:12 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel return line attachment point with 912UL
>
> <grahamsingleton@btinternet.com>
>
> The question is=2C how does ignoring the return flow affect the accuracy
> >> of the fuel flow instrument? It depends on the quantity of the return
> >> flow of course. Is there any data about this? Maybe in the rotax
> >> maintenance manuals?
> >>
> >
> > That's indeed the question I so far have not found an answer to. The
> > only thing I was told by different people is that return flow varies
> > with RPM=2C but no hard numbers on return flow have made it my way. So
> > basically I *know* there will be an inaccuracy when ignoring return
> > flow=2C but *do not know* just how large this inaccuracy is (hence my
> > attempt to come up with something better for a single sender setup).
> >
> > Marcel
> >
> Marcel
> The return flow does not affect your fuel flow to the engine and that is
> what you are measuring. So you can forget about it with this configuratio
n
> Graham
>
>
>
>
>
>======================
&g======
>
>
>
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