---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/29/09: 20 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:26 AM - Re: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? (Chris Cameron) 2. 02:34 AM - Re: Fuel valve open or close between flights (G-IANI) 3. 02:34 AM - Re: First engine run; what is normal? (Frans Veldman) 4. 03:04 AM - Re: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? (pjeffers@talktalk.net) 5. 03:19 AM - Re: First engine run; what is normal? (Graham Singleton) 6. 03:55 AM - Re: First engine run; what is normal? (Frans Veldman) 7. 04:12 AM - Re: First engine run; what is normal? (Karl Heindl) 8. 04:44 AM - Re: First engine run; what is normal? (Frans Veldman) 9. 05:11 AM - "O" Ring Problem in A131 (JR Gowing) 10. 05:55 AM - Re: First engine run; what is normal? (Paul McAllister) 11. 06:42 AM - Re: First engine run; what is normal? (Karl Heindl) 12. 07:44 AM - Re: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? (rampil) 13. 07:50 AM - Re: First engine run; what is normal? (Frans Veldman) 14. 08:28 AM - ROTAX 5 Year Rubber Replacement (bmoorhouse) 15. 09:40 AM - Re: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? (Raimo Toivio) 16. 11:49 AM - Re: Re: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? (rick@amimotormanagement.co.uk) 17. 12:36 PM - Re: ROTAX 5 Year Rubber Replacement (Frans Veldman) 18. 01:04 PM - Re: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? (Greg Fuchs) 19. 08:35 PM - Re: ROTAX 5 Year Rubber Replacement (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 20. 10:13 PM - Re: ROTAX 5 Year Rubber Replacement (Lisbet og Gert Dalgaard) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:26:33 AM PST US From: Chris Cameron Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? When I was learning to fly, the Traumahawks windshields were polished with Pledge at least once a day! Didn't seem to make any difference to the view! Yet to try it on a Europa! Cheers _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Fuchs Sent: Wednesday, 29 April 2009 12:57 p.m. Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? In the motorcycle world, I have heard of spray-on Lemon Pledge being used on Plexiglas windshields. It is not for cleaning or repairing scratches, but might provide a slick surface barrier (on an already clean windshield) to protect against them. It should also allow the bugs to come off easily, or stick less to begin with. It is not supposed to go yellow either, like Rain-X is supposed to do to it, over time. It has the added benefit of allowing the water to slip right off. Granted, I have never used it on aircraft, but maybe someone has? I figure aircraft Plexi is similar to motorcycle Plexi, though. Regards, Greg Fuchs A050 XS Tri 1100 Hours into it On Apr 19, 2009, at 12:54, Raimo Toivio wrote: All I have a problem - I cannot find any safe way to clean the wind shield. As you all know it gets very easily hair scratches. With those scrathes it is not fun to fly against sun - I do not wanna have them any more! Have seen nightmares "hey I am going to replace Europa=B4s windshield". I have tried to rinse it with plenty of warm water and cleaning detergents but that is not enough. I am not brave enough to wipe it clean or touch it at all. Insects are the main problem - as Bob and Ivor well know sometimes during summer here in Scandinavia exists two or even more little insects (they claimed mosquitos). How do you do the job? Raimo OH-XRT ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:34:10 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel valve open or close between flights All With G-IANI we operate the check list routine. Switch to RESERVE before starting the engine, and keep it there during warm-up and taxi. Before run-up, switch to MAIN. Check MAIN before take-off. On shut down we switch to OFF. The interesting point is that after 150 hour the Europa supplied tap was becoming to stiff for Irene to turn. As I had a spare I replaced it. The second tap started to become very stiff at 240 hour. This time I replaced it with an Andair. It will be interesting to see how long the Andair lasts. Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear) e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:34:10 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: First engine run; what is normal? Hi Justin, > This one struck a chord with me. > Although I have a Rotax 912S and Classic cowl I had much the same > cooling problems to start with.. > > I agree that it did take 15 hours or so before I acheived total temp > stability at the normal levels. I have now about 2 hours on the engine, and it is starting to cool down considerably. Can't tell of course whether this is due to some cooling modifications I made, or because the engine is now a little less tight. Also, the engine now runs much more smoothly, very noticable from the inside and the outside. I didn't change anything that could have caused this. My assumption is that the "tightness" was not evenly spread among the cylinders. It feels normal now, but the first hour or so you wouldn't believe how much it vibrated, shaked, etc. even on higher rpm's. I'm happy now that the engine starts to behave more like I hopened for when I bought it. > During the flight testing period I experienced too much coolant cooling > and not enough oil cooling. Haven't got to this part yet. Managed to get the water boiling during idle, while the oil was still around 50 Celcius! It is now becoming better but the oil temperature is still way behind the water temperature. > I saw a Europa at a fly-in with some of the cooling vanes removed > between the water tubes in the radiator just in front of the oil cooler. Good idea! I will keep this in mind in case I'm going to experience the same oil cooling problems. > In the heat of the mediterranen sun (say 36 degrees C) I have no > difficulty in taxiing for an unlimited period. I set the Airmaster to > "Manual" fully coarse and 1800 rpm and it keeps it steady well within > limits. Do remember to set the Airmaster back to "Auto" and "T/O" before > taking off. I forgot this once and it wasn't a good experience. The good news with the Woodcomp with large twist is that it is more difficult to forget this. ;-) It becomes quite noisy and rough if set to coarse while still on the ground. Presumably the inner part with very much twist gets a so large angle of attack that it stalls. Thanks for your comments! P.S. I think it would have been wise if either Rotax or Europa advises in their manuals about the cooling problems with a new engine. For a newbe like me it was a real brainbreaker to deal with an engine that overheats within 8 minutes before the oil even starts to warm up a bit... -- Frans Veldman ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:24 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? From: pjeffers@talktalk.net =0A We have used Pledge on our classic Europa windshields for 13 years now.=C2- Excellent cleaning poroperties and has shown no apparent deleterious effects.=C2- It is also very easy to use.=0AThe Gliding club=C2- on our airfield has also used Pledge on canopies for years.=0A=0APete Jeffers=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A =0A=0A-----Original Message-----=0AFrom: Chris Cameron =0ATo: europa-list@matronics.com=0ASent: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 9:24=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely?=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0AWhen I was learning to fly, the Traumahawks =0Awindshields were polished with Pledge at least once a day!=C2- Didn't seem to =0Amake any difference to the view!=C2- Yet to try =0Ait on a Eu ropa!=0A=0A=0A=C2-=0A=0A=0ACheers=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A=0A From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com =0A [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg =0A Fuchs=0ASent: Wednesday, 29 April 2009 12:57 p.m.=0ATo: =0A europa-list@matronics.com=0ASubject: RE: Europa-List: Cleaning =0A windshield - how to do it safely?=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A =0A=0A =0AIn the motorcycle =0A world, I have heard of spray-on Lemon Pledge being used on Plexiglas =0A windshields. It is not for cleaning or repairing scratches, but might provide =0A a slick surface barrier (on an already clean windshield) to protect against =0A them. It should also allow the bugs to come off easily, or stick less to begin =0A with.=0A=0A =0AIt is not 20supposed to =0A go yellow either, like Rain-X is supposed to do to it, over time. It has the =0A added benefit of allowing the water to slip right off. Granted, I have never =0A used it on aircraft, but maybe someone has?=0A=0A =0AI figure aircraft =0A Plexi is similar to motorcycle Plexi, though.=0A=0A =0A=C2-=0A=0A =0ARegards,=0A=0A =0AGreg Fuchs A050 XS =0A Tri 1100 Hours into it=0A=0A =0A=C2-=0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=C2-=0A=0A=0A =0A=C2-=0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0AOn Apr 19, 2009, at 12:54, Raimo Toivio =0A wrote:=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=0A =0AAll=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=C2-=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A =0AI=2 0 have a problem =0A - I cannot find any safe way to clean the=C2-wind =0A shield.=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A =0AAs you all know =0A it gets very=C2-easily hair scratches.=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A =0AWith those =0A scrathes it is not fun to fly against sun -=C2-I do not wanna have them =0A any more!=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A =0AHave seen =0A nightmares "hey I am going to replace Europa=C2=B4s =0A windshield".=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A =0A=C2-=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A =0AI have tried to =0A rinse it with plenty of warm water and cleaning detergents but that is not =0A enough.=0A=0A=0A =0A=0A =0AI am not brave =0A enough to wipe it cl e 3 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:19:35 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: First engine run; what is normal? Frans Veldman wrote: > > Hi Justin, > I have now about 2 hours on the engine, and it is starting to cool down > considerably. Can't tell of course whether this is due to some cooling > modifications I made, or because the engine is now a little less tight. > Frans Engine "break in" as they say in the US, should be done at relatively high power settings. 60% minimum. Running at low power can cause glazing of cylinders and the piston rings won't polish squarely unless they are properly loaded. My understanding is that if loading on the rings reverses they will wear barrel shaped and start pumping oil. A long delivery flight on a new Cessna at best economy speeds usually resulted in a new airplane with an engine that burned oil. Graham ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:33 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: First engine run; what is normal? Graham Singleton wrote: >> I have now about 2 hours on the engine, and it is starting to cool down >> considerably. Can't tell of course whether this is due to some cooling >> modifications I made, or because the engine is now a little less tight. >> > Frans > Engine "break in" as they say in the US, should be done at relatively > high power settings. 60% minimum. > Running at low power can cause glazing of cylinders and the piston rings > won't polish squarely unless they are properly loaded. My understanding > is that if loading on the rings reverses they will wear barrel shaped > and start pumping oil. I agree, but the problem is: HOW? My understanding is that one should not load the engine before the oil gets at least 70 degrees Celcius. Before that time though, the water boiled already. The vibrations were also not really inviting to try some higher power settings. Now the engine starts to run much cooler, and runs smoothly, I plan to do a few sessions with higher power settings. For breaking in, of course, but I also won't let anyone test-fly this thing before I have some confidence that the engine will be able to complete its take-off run without boiling. ;-) -- Frans Veldman ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:11 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: First engine run; what is normal? Frans=2C Your cooling problems at startup are not at all typical. As far as I know t he engines are run in at the factory=2C and there is no recommended 'run-in ' period=2C like there used to be many years ago for cars. You may well have had an airlock somewhere which cleared itself. Karl > Date: Wed=2C 29 Apr 2009 11:30:42 +0200 > From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: First engine run=3B what is normal? > l> > > Hi Justin=2C > > > This one struck a chord with me. > > Although I have a Rotax 912S and Classic cowl I had much the same > > cooling problems to start with.. > > > > I agree that it did take 15 hours or so before I acheived total temp > > stability at the normal levels. > > I have now about 2 hours on the engine=2C and it is starting to cool down > considerably. Can't tell of course whether this is due to some cooling > modifications I made=2C or because the engine is now a little less tight. > > Also=2C the engine now runs much more smoothly=2C very noticable from the > inside and the outside. I didn't change anything that could have caused > this. My assumption is that the "tightness" was not evenly spread among > the cylinders. It feels normal now=2C but the first hour or so you > wouldn't believe how much it vibrated=2C shaked=2C etc. even on higher rp m's. > > I'm happy now that the engine starts to behave more like I hopened for > when I bought it. > > > During the flight testing period I experienced too much coolant cooling > > and not enough oil cooling. > > Haven't got to this part yet. Managed to get the water boiling during > idle=2C while the oil was still around 50 Celcius! It is now becoming > better but the oil temperature is still way behind the water temperature. > > > I saw a Europa at a fly-in with some of the cooling vanes removed > > between the water tubes in the radiator just in front of the oil cooler .. > > Good idea! I will keep this in mind in case I'm going to experience the > same oil cooling problems. > > > In the heat of the mediterranen sun (say 36 degrees C) I have no > > difficulty in taxiing for an unlimited period. I set the Airmaster to > > "Manual" fully coarse and 1800 rpm and it keeps it steady well within > > limits. Do remember to set the Airmaster back to "Auto" and "T/O" befor e > > taking off. I forgot this once and it wasn't a good experience. > > The good news with the Woodcomp with large twist is that it is more > difficult to forget this. =3B-) It becomes quite noisy and rough if set t o > coarse while still on the ground. Presumably the inner part with very > much twist gets a so large angle of attack that it stalls. > > Thanks for your comments! > > P.S. I think it would have been wise if either Rotax or Europa advises > in their manuals about the cooling problems with a new engine. For a > newbe like me it was a real brainbreaker to deal with an engine that > overheats within 8 minutes before the oil even starts to warm up a bit... > > -- > > Frans Veldman > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:44:03 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: First engine run; what is normal? Karl, > Your cooling problems at startup are not at all typical. I got some emails (on the list and privately) from people who have experienced similar problems. So it is not really a-typical either. Maybe it is a matter of luck how tight a newly produced engine is. > As far as I > know the engines are run in at the factory, and there is no recommended > 'run-in' period, like there used to be many years ago for cars. Of course engines are now produced with much smaller tolerances, minimizing the run-in period, but still some run-in remains to be done. As far as I know the engines are just "test-run" at the factory, only for a very short time, and not for the time required to perform a full run in. > You may well have had an airlock somewhere which cleared itself. If that were true, coolant should have dropped somewhat, but that is not the case. Also, all cylinders ran at the same CHT, so they either should have had all four a similar airlock, or the airlock should have been in the radiator or collection tank, which is quite unlikely as well. Then the vibration, that cleared itself as well. Everything suggests that there was a run in problem involved. An air lock could of course have contributed to it as well. BTW, yesterday I implemented your nose wheel mod. Needed considerable efforts to get the original tube out (heating and pressing), but once that was done, everything assembled nicely together. Only that nylon stuff is not easy to work with, but I managed to drill a 1" hole right in the middle of it, and sawed it of squarely. Thanks for a bright idea! -- Frans Veldman ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:08 AM PST US From: "JR Gowing" Subject: Europa-List: "O" Ring Problem in A131 Bob You said in an email I saved 30.6.2000 that the o rings in your water drain s outlet cocks had prerished) and were leaking. What happened then please=3F Did you find replacements and are they any good=3F details=3F JR (Bob) Gowing UK Kit 327 in Oz do not archive -- We are a community of 6 million users fighting spam. The Professional version does not have this message ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:06 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: First engine run; what is normal? From: Paul McAllister Hi Frans & All, Regarding the factory run in, I seem to recall that when I checked the log in the TCU it had nearly 5 hours on it, and something like 30 minutes in boost, but given that it was over 4 years ago and I have had many rum and coke's since I can't be sure. I did quite a bit of moving around the airport taxi ways before my first flight with the cowling off, maybe for an hour and I think this is the reason why I didn't see any over heating. It was also in March which is typically cooler here. Subsequent to that I have always had cooling problems. If I taxi out to the hold short line and ATC has me holding I will see CHT temperatures close to red line after about 20 minutes of engine running. By 20 minutes I mean that this includes from first engine start. On two occasions at Sun n' fun I had long taxi's and I had to shut the engine down to stop the CHT's hitting red line. During straight and level flight I see the CHT's about right and the oil temps on the cool side. During climb the oil temperatures will red line. On the occasions I fly IFR and file for an altitude of anything above 10'000 I have to step climb it. My cooling experiences with a 914 haven't been great, in summary the CHT's overheat on the ground, oil overheats in the climb and in general it all runs too cool in cruise. My aircraft is currently apart due to having removed the engine for its case fretting problem so I am going to take the opportunity to make some cooling modifications while it is apart. I know that this will delay me getting it back for this flying season, but if I don't deal with it now I will end up putting it off again. I'll keep you all posted with my results. Paul ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:42:30 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: First engine run; what is normal? Frans=2C I am glad to hear that everything is falling into place nicely. You will be flying then this summer ? About the run-in question: maybe the guys who went on the Rotax course coul d shed some light on it. I understand that an airlock would be near the rad iator or pump. I wonder why the nosewheel shaft was so tight=2C unless it was secured with loctite. Cheers=2C Karl > Date: Wed=2C 29 Apr 2009 13:42:39 +0200 > From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: First engine run=3B what is normal? > l> > > Karl=2C > > > Your cooling problems at startup are not at all typical. > > I got some emails (on the list and privately) from people who have > experienced similar problems. So it is not really a-typical either. > Maybe it is a matter of luck how tight a newly produced engine is. > > > As far as I > > know the engines are run in at the factory=2C and there is no recommend ed > > 'run-in' period=2C like there used to be many years ago for cars. > > Of course engines are now produced with much smaller tolerances=2C > minimizing the run-in period=2C but still some run-in remains to be done. > As far as I know the engines are just "test-run" at the factory=2C only > for a very short time=2C and not for the time required to perform a full > run in. > > > You may well have had an airlock somewhere which cleared itself. > > If that were true=2C coolant should have dropped somewhat=2C but that is not > the case. Also=2C all cylinders ran at the same CHT=2C so they either sho uld > have had all four a similar airlock=2C or the airlock should have been in > the radiator or collection tank=2C which is quite unlikely as well. Then > the vibration=2C that cleared itself as well. Everything suggests that > there was a run in problem involved. An air lock could of course have > contributed to it as well. > > BTW=2C yesterday I implemented your nose wheel mod. Needed considerable > efforts to get the original tube out (heating and pressing)=2C but once > that was done=2C everything assembled nicely together. Only that nylon > stuff is not easy to work with=2C but I managed to drill a 1" hole right > in the middle of it=2C and sawed it of squarely. Thanks for a bright idea ! > > -- > Frans Veldman > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:44:29 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? From: "rampil" "pledge on Plexi" Interesting! Yes I have heard that motorcyclists use furniture polish on their windshields. The methyl methacrylate product manufacturers like LP Aero (George) say it is a bad idea. Then again, they profit from the sale of specialty cleaners and polish. I got quite an education on swirls and scratches at SnF last week. A key notion, not mentioned previously is that when cleaning the plexi, first use copious water spray, then wipe with cotton with only LINEAR strokes. I trust George's products for reducing swirl marks. I also have a scratch or two for which George sent me to the MicroMesh tent for their repair kit. I am awaiting delivery! I'll then report back! Ira -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241913#241913 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:50:06 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: First engine run; what is normal? Karl Heindl wrote: > I am glad to hear that everything is falling into place nicely. You will be flying then this summer ? That is quite optimistic. But let's say I hope to be flying before the end of this year. > About the run-in question: maybe the guys who went on the Rotax course could shed some light on it. I understand that an airlock would be near the radiator or pump. Oh, I forgot to mention that I have a coolant temperature indicator as well. The sensor is positioned between the top tank and the radiator. It indicated high temperatures so at least coolant must have been found its way from the cylinder heads to the sensor. > I wonder why the nosewheel shaft was so tight, unless it was secured with loctite. I could not find any traces of sticky substances. Also, the new shaft was as difficult to get in. Actually, I planned for having it considerably deeper into the fork than the original, but I gave up when it was about 5mm further than the original, because I could hammer what I want, but it didn't want to go any further when the fork was cooling down. Cheers, Frans ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:28:28 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: ROTAX 5 Year Rubber Replacement From: "bmoorhouse" I apologise in advance if this is incorrect but this a repeat of a post I made in the Rotax Engine List which may be answered by someone with a Europa in the UK. My ROTAX 914 is due (well actually overdue) for the mandatory 5 year replacement of rubber hoses, carburettor rubber parts etc. and I have a jaw dropping kit price from the UK Rotax distributor of 661.25 for the parts :x This seems ludicrously expensive. Some of the parts maybe Rotax specific (e.g. the carb mounting rubbers ?) but many of them are "off the shelf" from other suppliers - e,g the Bing carburettor diaphragms, standard 12mm vacuum oil hose etc. and a rough total cost for buying these would be less than half the "official" Rotax spares. Now as far as the LAA are concerned is it OK to use these totally compatible and standard parts or would they be regarded as "modifications" as they are not "true" Rotax spares. -------- _______________ Barry Moorhouse G-JHYS Trigear XS Rotax 914 UL Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241921#241921 ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:40:15 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? What Johnson=C2=B4s Pledge brand name you use? Maybe Multi Surface Cleaner? http://www.pledge.com/multi-surface-cleaner/ Quite many of you have reported for Pledge. Raimo OH-XRT ----- Original Message ----- From: pjeffers@talktalk.net To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 12:57 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? We have used Pledge on our classic Europa windshields for 13 years now. Excellent cleaning poroperties and has shown no apparent deleterious effects. It is also very easy to use. The Gliding club on our airfield has also used Pledge on canopies for years. Pete Jeffers -----Original Message----- From: Chris Cameron To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 9:24 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? When I was learning to fly, the Traumahawks windshields were polished with Pledge at least once a day! Didn't seem to make any difference to the view! 2 0Yet to try it on a Europa! Cheers ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] < b>On Behalf Of Greg Fuchs Sent: Wednesday, 29 April 2009 12:57 p.m. To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? In the motorcycle world, I have heard of spray-on Lemon Pledge being used on Plexiglas windshields. It is not for cleaning or repairing scratches, but might provide a slick surface barrier (on an already clean windshield) to protect against them. It should also allow the 2 0bugs to come off easily, or stick less to begin with. It is not supposed to go yellow either, like Rain-X is supposed to do to it, over time. It has the added benefit of allowing the water to slip right off. Granted, I have never used it on aircraft, but maybe someone has? I figure aircraft Plexi is similar to motorcycle Plexi, though. Regards, Greg Fuchs A050 XS Tri 1100 Hours into it On Apr 19, 2009, at 12:54, Raimo Toivio wrote: = A All I have a problem - I cannot find any safe way to clean the&n b sp;wind shield. As you all know it gets very easily hair scratches. With those scrathes it is not fun to fly against sun - I do n ot wanna have them any more! Have seen nightmares "hey I am going to replace Europa=C2=B4s windshield". 20 I have tried to rinse it with plenty of warm water and cleaning detergents but that is not enough. I am not brave enough to wipe it clean or touch it at all. < /font> Insects are the main problem - as Bob and Ivor well know sometimes during summer here in Scandinavia exists two or even more little insects (they claimed mosquitos). How do you do the job? Raimo OH-XRT href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List"http://www.matronh ref="http://forums.matronics.com"http://forums.matronics. c s ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:49:56 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? From: rick@amimotormanagement.co.uk Hi Ira Nice to see you again at S&F. You'll love Micromesh! Rick Rick Morris G-RIKS ------Original Message------ From: rampil Sender: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com ReplyTo: Europa-List@Matronics. Com Subject: Europa-List: Re: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? Sent: 29 Apr 2009 15:42 "pledge on Plexi" Interesting! Yes I have heard that motorcyclists use furniture polish on their windshields. The methyl methacrylate product manufacturers like LP Aero (George) say it is a bad idea. Then again, they profit from the sale of specialty cleaners and polish. I got quite an education on swirls and scratches at SnF last week. A key notion, not mentioned previously is that when cleaning the plexi, first use copious water spray, then wipe with cotton with only LINEAR strokes. I trust George's products for reducing swirl marks. I also have a scratch or two for which George sent me to the MicroMesh tent for their repair kit. I am awaiting delivery! I'll then report back! Ira -------- Ira N224XS Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=241913#241913 Sent using BlackBerry from Orange ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:58 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: ROTAX 5 Year Rubber Replacement bmoorhouse wrote: > I apologise in advance if this is incorrect but this a repeat of a > post I made in the Rotax Engine List which may be answered by someone > with a Europa in the UK. > > My ROTAX 914 is due (well actually overdue) for the mandatory 5 year > replacement of rubber hoses, carburettor rubber parts etc. and I have > a jaw dropping kit price from the UK Rotax distributor of 661.25 > for the parts :x Sorry, couldn't resist. Just for your amusement, here is a message I received yesterday from the Thielert list, about the same subject: ===================== my Centurion 1.7 in my C172 is now 5 years old and at the same time 300 h. OK, most of you will laugh now, I know. But wait, because I have some information which might wipe away your laughter: I have to exchange gear, coupling HP-pump, alternator and so on. I have payed 7000 Euro in advance for this parts 3 weeks ago, still we have no parts. (I live only 80km from Thielert home base Lichtenstein but is looks like it is as far as from US.) Now comes the hammer: After 5 Years all rubber hoses have to be exchanged. I have received an offer for one hose set for Centurion 1.7, 6283,07 inkl. VAT for 24 rubber hoses! So I have to pay allready more than 13000 Euros only for parts. For privat pilots which have to less time for flying thielert is the biggest worst case ever seen!!! =================== > This seems ludicrously expensive. I guess everything is scalable. ;-) -- Frans Veldman ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:04:42 PM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? Raimo- >From Memory, It looks like =91natural beauty=92 (spray) is the one I used on my fairing and face shield. This one has the fresh lemony scent. However, on the advice of David G, I will probably switch over to regular Pledge the next time I buy. Possibly, David, can point to what particular pledge product he has used, and/or one of the other posters? Regards, Greg Fuchs _____ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 2009 9:44 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cleaning windshield - how to do it safely? What Johnson=B4s Pledge brand name you use? Maybe Multi Surface Cleaner? http://www.pledge.com/multi-surface-cleaner/ Quite many of you have reported for Pledge. Raimo OH-XRT ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 08:35:24 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: ROTAX 5 Year Rubber Replacement In a message dated 4/29/2009 12:37:17 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl writes: So I have to pay all ready more than 13000 Euros only for parts. Wait.......let me repeat what I think I just read.......you have to pay 13,000 Euro.....that's over $17,000 US just for the rubber parts for your Rotax engine? That is what we, over here in the US, call highway robbery. This would be a call for total banishment of any repeat, or even initial, business with this company over here. You might as well buy another whole engine so you can have spare metal parts for the engine you have. The only way to stop this type of skullduggery would be for people to get together and find the original source of the parts and cut out the middleman. Off my soapbox now. Back to sanding. Do Not Archive Mike Duane A207A Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Jabiru 3300A Sensenich R64Z N Ground Adjustable Prop **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and click.net%2Fclk%3B214101948%3B35952020%3Bv) ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 10:13:12 PM PST US From: Lisbet og Gert Dalgaard Subject: Re: Europa-List: ROTAX 5 Year Rubber Replacement Mike! Before you shoot anybody .... he is using a converted Mercedes engine - a Thiele engine, so ... :-))) Regards Gert OY-GDS/Mono/914/all rubber parts changed 2 years ago - no problem - you might consider silicone hoses from Stefan in Sweeden - I use them, and they seem to work well. Den 30/04/2009 kl. 05.32 skrev DuaneFamly@aol.com: > So I have to pay all ready more than 13000 Euros only for parts. > Wait.......let me repeat what I think I just read.......you have to > pay 13,000 Euro.....that's over $17,000 US just for the rubber parts > for your Rotax engine? That is what we, over here in the US, call > highway robbery. This would be a call for total banishment of any > repeat, or even initial, business with this company over here. You > might as well buy another whole engine so you can have spare metal > parts for the engine you have. The only way to stop this type of > skullduggery would be for people to get together and find the > original source of the parts and cut out the middleman. > > Off my soapbox now. Back to sanding. > > Do Not Archive > > Mike Duane A207A > Redding, California > XS Conventional Gear > Jabiru 3300A > Sensenich R64Z N > Ground Adjustable Prop ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.