---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/06/09: 3 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:00 AM - =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:__Europa_Original_Seat_Belts=B4_Inherent_Ri?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?sk? (Raimo Toivio) 2. 04:11 AM - =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:__Europa_Original_Seat_Belts=B4_Inherent_Ri?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?sk? (Raimo Toivio) 3. 07:43 PM - Re: Purchase in UK (Robert Hatton) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:00:45 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_Europa_Original_Seat_Belts=B4_Inherent_Ri?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?sk? Thanks Graig for understanding. I have in my cars similar belt cutters behind sun vizors. To survive - you have to understand you need it - you have to remember where it is - you have to reach it - you have to be able to use it physically After hard experiences all of this points could be difficult to complete. We buy all kind of unnecessary toys to make us happy. Why don=B4t we buy something (safer safety belts) which could save our life. As alive it is easier to be happy and play with those toys. BTW what about safety belts with Airbags then...you know statistics. But lets all hope that we never "land" in that position. Let=B4s do so. Raimo OH-XRT PS: one possible scenario: Prop is feathered for gliding. You cannot unfeather it. Forced landing follows. Prop blades are very strong when in feathered position. If they will hit somewhere, plane will go uppside down almost surely. This "warning" is in the Airmaster Operator=B4s Manual. ----- Original Message ----- From: craig bastin To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 12:51 AM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Original Seat Belts=B4 Inherent Risk Ramio, for what its worth, having rolled my own race car once I understand what you are saying, even the "race" harnesses can get a bit tight to undo when you are upside down, but in australia you can get a "life hammer" as they call it its designed to easily cut belts in one go without cutting the wearer of the belt, and to break toughened glass. Obviously the breaking glass bit wont work on plexi but if its mounted on the roof or panel should still be easliy reached when you are upside down. But lets all hope that we never "land" in that position. craig Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Raimo Toivio Sent: Wednesday, 6 May 2009 3:19 AM To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Europa-List: Europa Original Seat Belts=B4 Inherent Risk All who use or are going to use Europa original seat belts There is also one another (one is the potential hip hit in accident) safety problem with Europa-type belts and installation: They form a fixed loop around your shoulders. In the case of accident if you are upsidedown it is hard or even impossible to escape. That may be very difficult even in a car with just an ordinary three point seat belts. Think: - after ditching or any bad landing you may be upside down. What kind of last moments you have before drowning or burning or starving if you cannot escape because of unlockable safety belts? After certain this category fatal accidents those type "loop" belts have been illegal and strictly forbidden in Finland since 2001. That order is also valid for experimentals and ultralights. I do not know the actual situation in other countries. That is why I have German made Schroth TSo belts with central lock and four fully separate laps. I wish you all have anyway minimum a lap knife in a practical place near by. I hope nobody will suck a pea into her/his nose because of my message! Wishes, Raimo OH-XRT PS: I have one free free set of Europa belts for anyone but they are definetely not for aviation use! ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred Klein To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 4:26 AM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Seat Belt Restraint Points On Jan 18, 2009, at 3:02 PM, JR Gowing wrote: Interesting information is coming. Bob, Info to be revealed in due time? f you still have the folding seat details handy in your computer, I would be pleased if could email them to me so I can study it again. 'fraid I don't use my computer for graphics...I'm one of those Neanderthals still drawing lines...here are a couple pixs: Fred A194 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:11:42 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Europa-List:_Europa_Original_Seat_Belts=B4_Inherent_Ri?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?sk? Fred, great! Raimo...Before I discard my beloved Europa seat belts, I will make test when fuselage is rigged on my rotisserie..I will attempt break out from harness when inverted and report back...first I will place 3 pillows on floor below my head. Please please take a video from that mission! Goog luck - you are a real hero if you really do that! Remember to remove plane=B4s door before that test and please use helmet! And do not do it alone ;) I will copy if you mind your "little gizmo" during next winter delay. Raimo OH-XRT PS: should you first try with a sand sack which is about same weight like you?! Of course in the event of crash and inversion, since I have raised the level of the pivot point of the shoulder harness on the raised portion of the seat back with my little gizmo, I anticipate being fully mobile and not to have suffered any spinal trauma which would otherwise hinder my ability to release myself from the harness and exit the aircraft...a detail not to be overlooked when considering optimum conditions for survivability. Fred A194 On May 5, 2009, at 10:18 AM, Raimo Toivio wrote: All who use or are going to use Europa original seat belts There is also one another (one is the potential hip hit in accident) safety problem with Europa-type belts and installation: They form a fixed loop around your shoulders. In the case of accident if you are upsidedown it is hard or even impossible to escape. That may be very difficult even in a car with just an ordinary three point seat belts. Think: - after ditching or any bad landing you may be upside down. What kind of last moments you have before drowning or burning or starving if you cannot escape because of unlockable safety belts? After certain this category fatal accidents those type "loop" belts have been illegal and strictly forbidden in Finland since 2001. That order is also valid for experimentals and ultralights. I do not know the actual situation in other countries. That is why I have German made Schroth TSo belts with central lock and four fully separate laps. I wish you all have anyway minimum a lap knife in a practical place near by. I hope nobody will suck a pea into her/his nose because of my message! Wishes, Raimo OH-XRT PS: I have one free free set of Europa belts for anyone but they are definetely not for aviation use! -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:43:39 PM PST US From: "Robert Hatton" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Purchase in UK Hi Jim, Did anyone pop up to offer any help to you? If you are still stuck drop me a line direct to my e-mail and I'll see if I can help. All the Best Rob Robert Hatton email: roberthatton1@googlemail.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of h&jeuropa Sent: Friday, May 01, 2009 8:38 PM Subject: Europa-List: Purchase in UK One of our local EAA members has found a firm in the UK that sells the Carling switches he wants for his Velocity. They will not sell to the US. Would some UK member be willing to purchase the switches for him and ship them to the US? The firm is Dun-Bri Corp Buntingford - Herts SG9 9JS Thanks Jim Butcher Do not archieve Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=242326#242326 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.