Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:39 AM - How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? (Frans Veldman)
2. 03:41 AM - Re: Re: Windshield care and Pledge (Greg Fuchs)
3. 05:07 AM - Re: Purchase in UK (h&jeuropa)
4. 06:47 AM - Re: How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? (Robert C Harrison)
5. 07:35 AM - Re: How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? (Frans Veldman)
6. 11:25 AM - Re: How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? (Raimo Toivio)
7. 12:18 PM - Re: How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? (Robert C Harrison)
8. 01:13 PM - Re: How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? (Frans Veldman)
9. 01:20 PM - Re: How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? (Frans Veldman)
10. 03:12 PM - Re: How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? (Robert C Harrison)
11. 03:12 PM - Re: How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? (Robert C Harrison)
12. 06:53 PM - Fuel injection for Jab 3300 - NOT (Fred Klein)
13. 07:23 PM - Re: Fuel injection for Jab 3300 - NOT (craig bastin)
14. 10:52 PM - Re: Fuel injection for Jab 3300 - NOT (Robert C Harrison)
Message 1
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| Subject: | How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? |
Hi everyone,
I bought my unstarted tri-gear kit #589 from someone else, together with
the factory supplied trailer.
Now don't laugh, but as easy it is to get an airplane registered over
here, as difficult it is to get a trailer registered.
I applied anyway, but it got rejected and it appears the situation is
hopeless unless I can produce the required information.
Now, with the European community, if a similar trailer is admitted
somewhere, there must be some European admittance number (don't know the
correct English expression for it, so it might be named differently),
and with that specific number I should be able to get my trailer
registered as well.
So, I would like to know if someone else got this type of trailer
registered (in a European country of course), and is willing to copy the
paperwork, and/or can tell me how he succeeded, that would be very helpfull.
Does someone know the manufacturer of these trailers? Then maybe they
can help me as well.
--
Frans Veldman
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Windshield care and Pledge |
Here is the response back from SC Johnson, manufacturer of pledge furniture
polish, about my questioning if I could use this product on aircraft
Plexiglas:
"
Please know we have not tested this product on the surfaces you've described
so we cannot recommend it. We design, formulate and test every product for
specific household tasks. That's why we always recommend using products
according to their label directions.
"
So..the product was not designed with Plexiglas in mind, they have not
tested it, and therefore cannot recommend it. Their response doesn't really
surprise me, I am sure they don't want to take any responsibility for
anything the product is not specifically designed for, especially with
expensive aircraft canopies (which I had baited them with, in my question).
Thus I took the liberty to analyze some of the ingredients in more detail
(to the best of my limited chemical abilities), and I include it here as an
attachment.
The final analysis is not black and white (there is no FINAL analysis), and
one of the ingredients may not have quite been figured out but I think it is
close, and quite revealing about the usage of Pledge on a canopy.
There will always be some who will scoff at the idea of using Pledge, only
because it is not made specifically for airplane windshields. That is fine,
and it is a nice conservative approach, especially where there is liability
(to customers) involved. Opinions are many and all varieties are expected. I
think a look at the ingredient comparisons to other products could make a
few jaws drop, though. This topic has been an ongoing learning experience
for me, and the difference in opinion is what has driven me to do the
research. It is worth it. There could be some more research in the future,
or additional inputs by real chemists (or anyone else for that matter), with
comments, or additional data.
Best Regards,
Greg Fuchs, A050
XS-914-Tri
Tigard, Oregon
------------------------------------------------------------------------
I sent an email out about 9 hours ago to a SC Johnson Consumer Service
Representative. They should be getting back soon..
~Greg
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Windshield care and Pledge
Has anyone asked Pledge whether that firm recommends it for our use on
plexiglass in aircraft?
JR (Bob) Gowing in Oz
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Purchase in UK |
Hi Rob,
Yes, we received several offers of help. Parts are on the way.
Thanks! Jim
do not archive
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=243002#243002
Message 4
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| Subject: | How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? |
Hi! Frans
To the best of my knowledge the UK does not need trailers licensed. The
first I knew of such bureaucracy was when my Son imported a Canadian
Honda CRV to Sweden and tried to tow a boat trailer !
Their authorities condemned the tow bar on the vehicle and insisted he
apply for a trailer license.
He had to get an approved electrical engineer to certify the electrical
wiring on the vehicle and have a new tow bar fitted costing a bloody
fortune.
Better not shout about your problem over in the UK too loud otherwise
our damned bureaucrats will jump on the band wagon and start making me
jump through impossible hoops with my purpose built trailer.!
Have you established it is enforceable in your country?
This just may be why it is appearing so hard.
I traveled to MT Propellers over the ferry and back along the autobahns
without any problem except for loosing a wheel when no one pulled me!
Regards
Bob Harrison.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans
Veldman
Sent: 07 May 2009 11:35
Subject: Europa-List: How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer?
<frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
Hi everyone,
I bought my unstarted tri-gear kit #589 from someone else, together with
the factory supplied trailer.
Now don't laugh, but as easy it is to get an airplane registered over
here, as difficult it is to get a trailer registered.
I applied anyway, but it got rejected and it appears the situation is
hopeless unless I can produce the required information.
Now, with the European community, if a similar trailer is admitted
somewhere, there must be some European admittance number (don't know the
correct English expression for it, so it might be named differently),
and with that specific number I should be able to get my trailer
registered as well.
So, I would like to know if someone else got this type of trailer
registered (in a European country of course), and is willing to copy the
paperwork, and/or can tell me how he succeeded, that would be very
helpfull.
Does someone know the manufacturer of these trailers? Then maybe they
can help me as well.
--
Frans Veldman
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? |
Hi Bob,
> To the best of my knowledge the UK does not need trailers licensed.
Yep, and that is exactly my problem. Because it has not been licensed in
the country the trailer was coming from, it is nearly impossible to
license it here.
Up to 750 Kg's, trailers don't need a license here. Unfortunately, the
trailer plus the Europa will exceed this limit.
If there would be a type certificate, the trailer could easily be
licensed. But this is not the case, so it is going to be nearly impossible.
I have to provide strength calculations, approval numbers for axles,
brakes, hitches, etc.
Isn't it ironically? You guys in the UK have a pretty hard time with
getting your homebuilt airplane licensed (unless you play it exactly by
the rules, with approvals for all kind of silly mods), and may tow
around anything behind your cars.
In the Netherlands, I can modify the airplane to my hearts contents,
without any approvals let alone inspections, and get it licensed without
difficulties. But the trailer, well, it is virtually impossible.
I could probably register the trailer more easily as an airplane (with a
very bad climb rate), if I 'd install a mode-S transponder on it (which
you are not supposed to use anyway). ;-) To bad that in that case I
would be restricted to use the trailer only on the landing strip...
> Have you established it is enforceable in your country?
Yep. Did some phone work. Bureaucrats tell me it is impossible. Trailer
selling companies told me that it *might* be possible, but would likely
costs 1000 Euro's as it will take many manhours to make up the
paperwork, do the calculations, visit the licensing station a few times,
etc. They advised me to try to get somewhere some paperwork to increase
the chances of succes, and this is why I'm begging on this forum for
some paperwork.
> I traveled to MT Propellers over the ferry and back along the autobahns
> without any problem except for loosing a wheel when no one pulled me!
This won't be a problem. Trailers need to be registered in the country
of their owner, and can than be taken in any country they wish. Pretty
much the same as with airplanes.
Hmmm, maybe I should just register my trailer in the UK. Need to find
out then if I'm allowed to pull it with my Dutch registered car.
--
Frans Veldman
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? |
Hi Frans
I have been there and had exactly same problems.
I imported original Europa factory trailer from Germany.
Solution: in Finnish Road Traffic Law there is a group they call like
"moveable devices".
I just named my trailer to be a moveable device!
That means no oblication to register and no insurances and I am free to
make any modifications.
So, my trailer is now an experimental trailer and I have added for
example second axle and so on.
Conditions:
1) a red triangle must be fixed to the trailer back instead of register
plate.
2) all the cargo must be removable only by tools (I have to use a set of
spanner tools to take Europa away)
4) speed limit 40 km/h (nobody cares, I prefer 60 or 70 km/h is max)
Look next time those huge trailerable traffic signs what they use in
road work there.
I assume they are not registered also in Netherland. They are moveable
devices then.
They trailer also giant boats from harbour to harbour by unregistered
trailers (=moveable device then).
One extra advantage: my trailer=B4s MTOW (maximum trail off weight!)
loaded with Europa is more than 750 kgs.
My poor trailer is brakeless and normally brakes are necessary then but
because it=B4s moveable device, no matter and nobody cares.
I was once in a traffic stop check and policeman asked "what the hell is
that?"
I just answered "cannot you see - it is a flying trailer!" and so he was
happy and I was free to head to airport.
After this pic (attachment) I have add several extras like floor. It=B4s
empty weight is around 500 kgs now.
I hope this helps - let me know.
Tow safe - it is the riskiest part of flying.
Raimo OH-XRT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frans Veldman" <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
Sent: Thursday, May 07, 2009 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer?
<frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> > To the best of my knowledge the UK does not need trailers licensed.
>
> Yep, and that is exactly my problem. Because it has not been licensed
in
> the country the trailer was coming from, it is nearly impossible to
> license it here.
>
> Up to 750 Kg's, trailers don't need a license here. Unfortunately, the
> trailer plus the Europa will exceed this limit.
>
> If there would be a type certificate, the trailer could easily be
> licensed. But this is not the case, so it is going to be nearly
impossible.
> I have to provide strength calculations, approval numbers for axles,
> brakes, hitches, etc.
>
> Isn't it ironically? You guys in the UK have a pretty hard time with
> getting your homebuilt airplane licensed (unless you play it exactly
by
> the rules, with approvals for all kind of silly mods), and may tow
> around anything behind your cars.
> In the Netherlands, I can modify the airplane to my hearts contents,
> without any approvals let alone inspections, and get it licensed
without
> difficulties. But the trailer, well, it is virtually impossible.
>
> I could probably register the trailer more easily as an airplane (with
a
> very bad climb rate), if I 'd install a mode-S transponder on it
(which
> you are not supposed to use anyway). ;-) To bad that in that case I
> would be restricted to use the trailer only on the landing strip...
>
> > Have you established it is enforceable in your country?
>
> Yep. Did some phone work. Bureaucrats tell me it is impossible.
Trailer
> selling companies told me that it *might* be possible, but would
likely
> costs 1000 Euro's as it will take many manhours to make up the
> paperwork, do the calculations, visit the licensing station a few
times,
> etc. They advised me to try to get somewhere some paperwork to
increase
> the chances of succes, and this is why I'm begging on this forum for
> some paperwork.
>
> > I traveled to MT Propellers over the ferry and back along the
autobahns
> > without any problem except for loosing a wheel when no one pulled
me!
>
> This won't be a problem. Trailers need to be registered in the country
> of their owner, and can than be taken in any country they wish. Pretty
> much the same as with airplanes.
>
> Hmmm, maybe I should just register my trailer in the UK. Need to find
> out then if I'm allowed to pull it with my Dutch registered car.
>
> --
> Frans Veldman
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? |
Hi! Frans....... Your last sentence is still presuming that you can
register your trailer in the UK. I say again we have no such system even
for caravans. IMHO just quote the weight unloaded.....but only if you
get "pulled" ....make them provide the legal work! The wombats in
Brussels have you jumping through invisible hoops.
Regards
Bob Harrison.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans
Veldman
Sent: 07 May 2009 15:32
Subject: Re: Europa-List: How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer?
<frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
Hi Bob,
> To the best of my knowledge the UK does not need trailers licensed.
Yep, and that is exactly my problem. Because it has not been licensed in
the country the trailer was coming from, it is nearly impossible to
license it here.
Up to 750 Kg's, trailers don't need a license here. Unfortunately, the
trailer plus the Europa will exceed this limit.
If there would be a type certificate, the trailer could easily be
licensed. But this is not the case, so it is going to be nearly
impossible.
I have to provide strength calculations, approval numbers for axles,
brakes, hitches, etc.
Isn't it ironically? You guys in the UK have a pretty hard time with
getting your homebuilt airplane licensed (unless you play it exactly by
the rules, with approvals for all kind of silly mods), and may tow
around anything behind your cars.
In the Netherlands, I can modify the airplane to my hearts contents,
without any approvals let alone inspections, and get it licensed without
difficulties. But the trailer, well, it is virtually impossible.
I could probably register the trailer more easily as an airplane (with a
very bad climb rate), if I 'd install a mode-S transponder on it (which
you are not supposed to use anyway). ;-) To bad that in that case I
would be restricted to use the trailer only on the landing strip...
> Have you established it is enforceable in your country?
Yep. Did some phone work. Bureaucrats tell me it is impossible. Trailer
selling companies told me that it *might* be possible, but would likely
costs 1000 Euro's as it will take many manhours to make up the
paperwork, do the calculations, visit the licensing station a few times,
etc. They advised me to try to get somewhere some paperwork to increase
the chances of succes, and this is why I'm begging on this forum for
some paperwork.
> I traveled to MT Propellers over the ferry and back along the
autobahns
> without any problem except for loosing a wheel when no one pulled me!
This won't be a problem. Trailers need to be registered in the country
of their owner, and can than be taken in any country they wish. Pretty
much the same as with airplanes.
Hmmm, maybe I should just register my trailer in the UK. Need to find
out then if I'm allowed to pull it with my Dutch registered car.
--
Frans Veldman
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? |
Hi Bob,
> Hi! Frans....... Your last sentence is still presuming that you can
> register your trailer in the UK. I say again we have no such system even
> for caravans.
Ok, I get that point. So what kind of license plate do you use on the
trailer? Just the same as the car towing it?
> IMHO just quote the weight unloaded.....but only if you
> get "pulled" ....make them provide the legal work! The wombats in
> Brussels have you jumping through invisible hoops.
I'm not really concerned to receive a ticket once in a while. I'm
worried what will happen if some lunatick hits the trailer from behind,
crushes my Europa, and then his insurance claims that while his client
did some damage, I was not supposed to drive there with the airplane
anyway, and that my "illegal" combination was a contributing (or sole?)
factor in the loss of the airplane.
I'm sure that in such an accident, the rather unusual "car crushes
airplane" claim will receive the full attention of the insurance
company. Given the fact that my claim will be quite high, they will
probably come up with anything they can find to reject or minimize my
claim. The fact that I'm transporting the airplane with an illegal
trailer will probably be well received by the insurance company. :-(
--
Frans Veldman
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? |
Hi Raimo,
> I have been there and had exactly same problems.
> I imported original Europa factory trailer from Germany.
>
> Solution: in Finnish Road Traffic Law there is a group they call like "moveable
devices".
> I just named my trailer to be a moveable device!
Interesting solution!
Yes, I have seen similar "trailers" over here. I don't know anything
about these rules, but I will find out. I suspect however that I can't
use highways and such with them. Maybe not a factor where you live, but
it would be a rather limiting factor over here. But it is an interesting
idea (and maybe last resort) anyway.
Thanks!
--
Frans Veldman
Message 10
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| Subject: | How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? |
Hi! Frans
Further to my message just posted, we often refer to very long glider
trailers as "special purpose" trailers ....covers a multitude of sins!
Regards
Bob H
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans
Veldman
Sent: 07 May 2009 21:18
Subject: Re: Europa-List: How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer?
<frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
Hi Raimo,
> I have been there and had exactly same problems.
> I imported original Europa factory trailer from Germany.
>
> Solution: in Finnish Road Traffic Law there is a group they call like
"moveable devices".
> I just named my trailer to be a moveable device!
Interesting solution!
Yes, I have seen similar "trailers" over here. I don't know anything
about these rules, but I will find out. I suspect however that I can't
use highways and such with them. Maybe not a factor where you live, but
it would be a rather limiting factor over here. But it is an interesting
idea (and maybe last resort) anyway.
Thanks!
--
Frans Veldman
Message 11
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| Subject: | How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer? |
Hi! Frans
Yes I understand your concern of course my trailer would have to be made
quite a mess before it got through to the plane.
We just use a duplicate number plate, the same as the pulling car.
To make it slightly more official I also have a "LONG VEHICLE" plate on
the back as well together with a tow board with lights (including brake
lights and indicators ), the magic triangle and the requisite "60" sign.
I can legally run at that speed since the trailer is braked by an over
run system.
Regards
Bob Harrison.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frans
Veldman
Sent: 07 May 2009 21:12
Subject: Re: Europa-List: How to license/register a Tri-gear trailer?
<frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
Hi Bob,
> Hi! Frans....... Your last sentence is still presuming that you can
> register your trailer in the UK. I say again we have no such system
even
> for caravans.
Ok, I get that point. So what kind of license plate do you use on the
trailer? Just the same as the car towing it?
> IMHO just quote the weight unloaded.....but only if you
> get "pulled" ....make them provide the legal work! The wombats in
> Brussels have you jumping through invisible hoops.
I'm not really concerned to receive a ticket once in a while. I'm
worried what will happen if some lunatick hits the trailer from behind,
crushes my Europa, and then his insurance claims that while his client
did some damage, I was not supposed to drive there with the airplane
anyway, and that my "illegal" combination was a contributing (or sole?)
factor in the loss of the airplane.
I'm sure that in such an accident, the rather unusual "car crushes
airplane" claim will receive the full attention of the insurance
company. Given the fact that my claim will be quite high, they will
probably come up with anything they can find to reject or minimize my
claim. The fact that I'm transporting the airplane with an illegal
trailer will probably be well received by the insurance company. :-(
--
Frans Veldman
Message 12
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| Subject: | Fuel injection for Jab 3300 - NOT |
I emailed Jab to see about the Jab-compatible fuel injection system
now being marketed by Rotec and received the following reply today:
> From: "info" <info@jabiru.net.au>
> Date: May 7, 2009 4:30:46 PM PDT
> To: "'Fred Klein'" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
> Subject: RE: Fuel injection for Jab 3300
>
> Hello Fred,
>
> Jabiru have never seen this system and we have no plans to test the
> system or support the system in the future. The installation of the
> TBI-40 would void the warranty on the engine.
>
> Regards,
>
> Mandie Banner
> Info & Enquiries
> JABIRU AIRCRAFT PTY LTD
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Fuel injection for Jab 3300 - NOT |
If its a straight replacement for the carb though it would be easy enough to
put the carb back if you had issues
and they would be none the wiser.
craig
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fred Klein
Sent: Friday, 8 May 2009 11:52 AM
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel injection for Jab 3300 - NOT
I emailed Jab to see about the Jab-compatible fuel injection system now
being marketed by Rotec and received the following reply today:
From: "info" <info@jabiru.net.au>
Date: May 7, 2009 4:30:46 PM PDT
To: "'Fred Klein'" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Subject: RE: Fuel injection for Jab 3300
Hello Fred,
Jabiru have never seen this system and we have no plans to test the
system or support the system in the future. The installation of the TBI-40
would void the warranty on the engine.
Regards,
Mandie Banner
Info & Enquiries
JABIRU AIRCRAFT PTY LTD
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Fuel injection for Jab 3300 - NOT |
Hi! Fred.
No surprise there then! I can for all time wonder how they came to
build a bloody engine anyway !
Best regards
Bob Harrison.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Klein
Sent: 08 May 2009 02:52
Subject: Europa-List: Fuel injection for Jab 3300 - NOT
I emailed Jab to see about the Jab-compatible fuel injection system now
being marketed by Rotec and received the following reply today:
From: "info" <info@jabiru.net.au>
Subject: RE: Fuel injection for Jab 3300
Hello Fred,
Jabiru have never seen this system and we have no plans to test the
system or support the system in the future. The installation of the
TBI-40 would void the warranty on the engine.
Regards,
Mandie Banner
Info & Enquiries
JABIRU AIRCRAFT PTY LTD
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by <http://www.mailscanner.info/> MailScanner, and is
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