Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:13 AM - Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? (rparigoris)
2. 01:18 AM - Re: Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? (craig bastin)
3. 02:18 AM - Re: Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? ()
4. 03:43 AM - Re: Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? (G-IANI)
5. 05:44 AM - Re: Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? (Paul McAllister)
6. 06:00 AM - Re: Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? (Karl Heindl)
7. 06:16 AM - Re: Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? (rampil)
8. 09:18 AM - Re: Re: Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? (Karl Heindl)
9. 10:02 AM - Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing (Frans Veldman)
10. 11:43 AM - Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing (Fred Klein)
11. 11:47 AM - Re: Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? (Fred Klein)
12. 01:05 PM - Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing (ALAN YERLY)
13. 01:44 PM - Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing (Frans Veldman)
14. 01:54 PM - Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing (Frans Veldman)
15. 04:54 PM - Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing (craig bastin)
16. 05:55 PM - Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing (Fred Klein)
Message 1
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? |
At moment in process of mounting instrument panel.
Any ideas on how to make a ramp/guide/shelf near lower mounting to aid installiation
would be appreciated.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 2
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? |
One way I saw, and copied was to put a narrow lip around the inside of the
panel and then fix bolts into the lip
so they protrude through the firewall from the inside, that way the bolts
are concealed and it is easy to put nuts
on the firewall side. you can then just slide the panel in and spin a nut on
with the other hand. One thing i would
suggest is you make a cardboard template to drill the holes in both the
firewall and the panel lip or you may have
problems lining up the holes for the bolts
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of rparigoris
Sent: Friday, 15 May 2009 5:02 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware
alignment?
At moment in process of mounting instrument panel.
Any ideas on how to make a ramp/guide/shelf near lower mounting to aid
installiation would be appreciated.
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
17:54:00
Message 3
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? |
I used cotton reel exhaust mountings, circular rubber mounts with a threaded
stud each side, Two main benefits are slightly more room for Avionic fittings
And a complete shock mounted instrument panel,
Regards
Ivor
---- craig bastin <craigb@onthenet.com.au> wrote:
>
> One way I saw, and copied was to put a narrow lip around the inside of the
> panel and then fix bolts into the lip
> so they protrude through the firewall from the inside, that way the bolts
> are concealed and it is easy to put nuts
> on the firewall side. you can then just slide the panel in and spin a nut on
> with the other hand. One thing i would
> suggest is you make a cardboard template to drill the holes in both the
> firewall and the panel lip or you may have
> problems lining up the holes for the bolts
>
> craig
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of rparigoris
> Sent: Friday, 15 May 2009 5:02 PM
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware
> alignment?
>
>
>
> At moment in process of mounting instrument panel.
>
> Any ideas on how to make a ramp/guide/shelf near lower mounting to aid
> installiation would be appreciated.
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> 17:54:00
>
>
>
>
>
Message 4
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? |
Ron
What Craig has described is set out as LAA Standard Mod 10402. This is
available on the Club site.
I have "guide rails" on which the panel slides as you install it. This was
achieved by having the lower area over the tunnel attached to the tunnel
(not the panel). The benefit of this is that my mag switch, choke and all
the leads to my EIS stay in place when you remove the panel. Have a look at
the picture. It was a lot of work to create this but it works well. If you
are interested e-mail me of the forum and I can send you more details.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani@ntlworld.comththe
Message 5
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? |
Hi Ron,
There are a couple of pictures on my site
http://www.europa.net.nz/363/index.html of my instrument panel. Try looking
under 2000, August & December. A few more can be found in Jan & May 2001
and Dec & June 2002. Unfortunately my site works best with Internet
Explorer, sorry about that.
You can see how I made and internal flange with captive nuts on the inside.
This allowed me to bolt the whole thing on with metal threads fixed through
the fire wall from the engine compartment.
You can also see the removable sub panels which allow me to pull either the
avionics or instrument stack separately. I have access panels in the fire
wall that I made from the same material as the firewall.
I used some 20 mm nylon spacers to move the panel assembly forward. I am
glad I did as most avionics take the full depth available.
The main issue I have with the Europa panel is that it is not deep enough
and there isn't much internal volume available for installing things that
don't need to be on the front of the panel. It also weighs a lot.
If I was to have my life over again.. gee don't we all say that.. I would do
something similar to Bob Jacobson and Cliff did, make a new one that was
deeper, went the full width of the airplane and incorporated the internal
cooling vents. I remember Bob telling me that his new panel even weighed
two pounds less.
In conclusion, although I have done things like add access through the fire
wall and removable sub panels, it still isn't an easy task when I need to do
work inside the panel.
Cheers, Paul.
Message 6
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? |
Ron=2C
One thing I did was to mount two aluminum angles against the firewall. The
instrument module then rests on this ledge while you put your first mountin
g screws in. I also made an inner flange along the top of the module to con
ceal the screws on the cockpit side.
Karl
> Subject: Europa-List: Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alig
nment?
> From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
> Date: Fri=2C 15 May 2009 10:02:01 +0300
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>
us>
>
> At moment in process of mounting instrument panel.
>
> Any ideas on how to make a ramp/guide/shelf near lower mounting to aid in
stalliation would be appreciated.
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 7
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? |
An extra shelf or mounting bracket is unnecessary. The panel does
quite well hanging on the top bolts and resting on the tunnel. I would
not close the gap between the bottom panel and the firewall because
it aids ventilation. My panel does not move or vibrate even during 3-4g
akro.
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244117#244117
Message 8
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? |
Ira=2C
You are probably right. But my 'shelf' is an aid when installing/removing a
very awkward module without anyone helping you.
And I do have a gap at the bottom=2C caused by rubber spacers for all screw
s=2C top and bottom.
Karl
> Subject: Europa-List: Re: Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware
alignment?
> From: ira.rampil@gmail.com
> Date: Fri=2C 15 May 2009 06:15:22 -0700
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>
>
> An extra shelf or mounting bracket is unnecessary. The panel does
> quite well hanging on the top bolts and resting on the tunnel. I would
> not close the gap between the bottom panel and the firewall because
> it aids ventilation. My panel does not move or vibrate even during 3-4g
> akro.
>
> --------
> Ira N224XS
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=244117#244117
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
===========
===========
===========
===========
>
>
>
Message 9
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing |
ALAN YERLY wrote:
> Frans, Yes it is wonky, and it is not your fault. I've done probably
> 5 sets and helped three or four customer and they are all the same.
Thanks very much for your confirmation. Now that I know that the
fairings are not going to be right if I follow the manual, I started to
experiment a little.
By coincidence, I found the secret!
Actually, it is very simple to get these things straight. The ONLY thing
you need to do, is to leave a gap on the bottom of the port flange. This
will make the fairing straight, viewed from all angles! No heating
necessary, no cutting needed at the bottom, no filling at the top, nothing.
The only thing you will have to do is to extend the port flange a little
bit to attach the bottom anchor nut, and use some expancel to fill the gap.
It seems that the only error the factory made was to cut the port side
of the front half at the wrong angle.
About the pictures:
Keep in mind that this is preliminary fitting. Even the anchor nuts are
not attached, the bolts are just inserted through the holes to keep
everything temporary in place. (Should have used cleco's for this, but I
already drilled the holes before I discovered that these fairings are
wonky).
The white shaft you see is my 2 inch nose wheel shaft extension, to
allow for a larger prop. The metal ring you see just above the wheel
spat is the fork, and is very usefull to provide a straight reference.
Then, for the folks curious about my nose wheel shaft extension, cowling
mod, and prop, a picture of the entire nose section. Again, this is far
from finished, but gives an idea how it will look like when all is finished.
--
Frans Veldman
Message 10
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing |
On May 15, 2009, at 9:58 AM, Frans Veldman wrote:
> It seems that the only error the factory made was to cut the port side
> of the front half at the wrong angle.
>
> About the pictures:
> Keep in mind that this is preliminary fitting. Even the anchor nuts
> are
> not attached, the bolts are just inserted through the holes to keep
> everything temporary in place. (Should have used cleco's for this,
> but I
> already drilled the holes before I discovered that these fairings are
> wonky).
>
> The white shaft you see is my 2 inch nose wheel shaft extension, to
> allow for a larger prop.
Frans,
Nice crisp and clear explanation of a simple solution to the nose gear
fairing.
And your prop looks great...[at first glance, I thought I saw some de-
icing boots on its leading edge...:-) ].
May I ask what your prop diameter is?
Fred
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 11
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Any ideas how to aid instrument panel hardware alignment? |
On May 15, 2009, at 12:02 AM, rparigoris wrote:
> Any ideas on how to make a ramp/guide/shelf near lower mounting to
> aid installiation would be appreciated.
Ron,
If your question concerns facilitating alignment of bolt holes when
positioning the instrument panel module, you might consider (after
bolting the panel in place) making some splash molds along the port
and starboard underside between module and fuselage sides. The module
would rest on these as you install the module and push it forward into
place...simple, out of the way, light weight.
Though I've beefed up the forward flange and installed about 10
vibration/isolation bolts, you raise an issue I've yet to
address...not sure how big of a concern it will be...
Good luck,
Fred
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Message 12
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing |
Looks great, I never thought of that Frans, looks fast and easy.
Good job,
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Frans Veldman<mailto:frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 12:58 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tri-gear wheel fairing
ALAN YERLY wrote:
> Frans, Yes it is wonky, and it is not your fault. I've done
probably
> 5 sets and helped three or four customer and they are all the same.
Thanks very much for your confirmation. Now that I know that the
fairings are not going to be right if I follow the manual, I started
to
experiment a little.
By coincidence, I found the secret!
Actually, it is very simple to get these things straight. The ONLY
thing
you need to do, is to leave a gap on the bottom of the port flange.
This
will make the fairing straight, viewed from all angles! No heating
necessary, no cutting needed at the bottom, no filling at the top,
nothing.
The only thing you will have to do is to extend the port flange a
little
bit to attach the bottom anchor nut, and use some expancel to fill the
gap.
It seems that the only error the factory made was to cut the port side
of the front half at the wrong angle.
About the pictures:
Keep in mind that this is preliminary fitting. Even the anchor nuts
are
not attached, the bolts are just inserted through the holes to keep
everything temporary in place. (Should have used cleco's for this, but
I
already drilled the holes before I discovered that these fairings are
wonky).
The white shaft you see is my 2 inch nose wheel shaft extension, to
allow for a larger prop. The metal ring you see just above the wheel
spat is the fork, and is very usefull to provide a straight reference.
Then, for the folks curious about my nose wheel shaft extension,
cowling
mod, and prop, a picture of the entire nose section. Again, this is
far
from finished, but gives an idea how it will look like when all is
finished.
--
Frans Veldman
Message 13
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing |
Fred Klein wrote:
> May I ask what your prop diameter is?
1720mm (that is 67.5").
I have choosen this prop for optimum cruise performance. Large diameter
= high efficiency. 2 blades versus 3 blades = slightly smaller take off
performance, but above 70 knots much more efficient.
And, last but not least, the inner section has very much twist. Again,
during the early stage of the take off this inner section probably
stalls, but at higher speeds it produces lots of thrust. The inboard
section of conventional props most likely produces no thrust a cruise
speeds, or even negative thrust.
Of course, all of this is so far still theoretical. Once I'm finally
flying, I will collect some performance data.
--
Frans Veldman
Message 14
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing |
ALAN YERLY wrote:
> Looks great, I never thought of that Frans, looks fast and easy.
I didn't think of that as well. I was just wondering whether I could
force the front half somewhat in the correct direction. To do this, I
attached the starboard side of the front half fairing to the rear half
of the fairing, to be able to bend the port side, and then discovered
that I could get the correct shape, without any bending, but at the cost
of creating a gap at the port seal. If you try to close this gap, the
fairing twists and takes its odd shape again. Leave it alone, and all is
right.
I love to think out solutions, but this one is really a coincidence, not
the result of thinking.
Next time you prepare a speed kit, try it, and let me know if it works
out the same for you.
I think it is a shame that it isn't covered in the manual. These parts
are not really a bargain, I somehow expected that the manual is adjusted
to the experiences of builders (and preferably, not only the manual but
the parts as well).
--
Frans Veldman
Message 15
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Tri-gear wheel fairing |
Fred and Frans, may I humbly refer you to the following link with regard to
prop choice etc
After going through this article I am opting for a smaller 4 blade prop,
probably around 60 inches.
http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-02_elippse.asp
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Frans
Veldman
Sent: Saturday, 16 May 2009 6:39 AM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tri-gear wheel fairing
Fred Klein wrote:
> May I ask what your prop diameter is?
1720mm (that is 67.5").
I have choosen this prop for optimum cruise performance. Large diameter
= high efficiency. 2 blades versus 3 blades = slightly smaller take off
performance, but above 70 knots much more efficient.
And, last but not least, the inner section has very much twist. Again,
during the early stage of the take off this inner section probably
stalls, but at higher speeds it produces lots of thrust. The inboard
section of conventional props most likely produces no thrust a cruise
speeds, or even negative thrust.
Of course, all of this is so far still theoretical. Once I'm finally
flying, I will collect some performance data.
--
Frans Veldman
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
17:54:00
Message 16
INDEX | Back to Main INDEX |
PREVIOUS | Skip to PREVIOUS Message |
NEXT | Skip to NEXT Message |
LIST | Reply to LIST Regarding this Message |
SENDER | Reply to SENDER Regarding this Message |
|
Subject: | Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing |
On May 15, 2009, at 4:54 PM, craig bastin wrote:
> >
>
> Fred and Frans, may I humbly refer you to the following link with
> regard to
> prop choice etc
> After going through this article I am opting for a smaller 4 blade
> prop,
> probably around 60 inches.
>
> http://www.eaa.org/experimenter/articles/2009-02_elippse.asp
Hi Craig...humility helps when one suggests something other than a CS
prop for our beloved Europas...I too have been intrigued by the
Ellipse props and talked them up a bit a couple of years ago after
learning of Paul Lupps' interest in designing something for the
Europa. Glenn Crowder may chime in here as he's said he's ordered a
Lipps prop for his monowheel. Since Paul's interest is in prop design
(rather than marketing ir making props), an RV guy named Jim Smith has
volunteered to handle purchasing paperwork. Jim's email is: elippsefppropsales@gmail.com
.
Depending on your powerplant and other considerations, Paul will do a
design for you, even as a "one off" project. Craig Catto manufactures
Paul's props...Craig's been around...I first tracked him down in the
'70's when, as an audacious 15 yr. old, he was carving props in his
garage.
Good luck w/ your 4 blader,
Fred
--
This message has been scanned for viruses and
dangerous content by MailScanner, and is
believed to be clean.
Other Matronics Email List Services
These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.
-- Please support this service by making your Contribution today! --
|