Today's Message Index:
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1. 01:23 AM - Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing (Frans Veldman)
2. 07:23 AM - Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing (ALAN YERLY)
3. 12:23 PM - Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing (Frans Veldman)
4. 02:14 PM - Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing (ALAN YERLY)
5. 04:44 PM - Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing (Paul McAllister)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing |
craig bastin wrote:
>
> Fred and Frans, may I humbly refer you to the following link with regard to
> prop choice etc
> After going through this article I am opting for a smaller 4 blade prop,
> probably around 60 inches.
I know the article. I would love to have such a prop, but as clearly
explained, it only works well if it is carefully designed for a specific
engine-airplane combination. I will certainly keep an eye on it, and
maybe even volunteer to experiment with it once I'm flying.
I don't see the logic of going to a smaller 4 blade prop though. It is
true that with the eliptical design you can have more blades without
drag penalty, but again, this only applies to this eliptical design.
According to the article, most props have considerable drag at the tips,
and with each additional blade, you are increasing this drag. You are
effectively increasing the tip area, the place where the bigges losses
occur due to the spill over from high-pressure to low-pressure area.
Consider this: What would happen if you would cut the wings of your
Europa in half, and put another halved wing on top of your plane? (I
believed it is alled a bi-plane?). You would have the same wing area,
that's right. But you would get more losses, because you doubled the
rather lossy tip area. It is better to have two longer wings than to
have four shorter ones.
Look at Paul's props: He can afford to have multiple blades, because his
tips are so narrow. Four of these would still create less drag than two
of the conventional blade tips. For his props only, having more blades
is beneficial.
With conventional props, it is better to focus on overal blade efficiency.
According to the article, a very important gain comes from the high
twist near the root, converting this area into something usefull.
And that is precisely what my Woodcomp prop does: it has a very large
twist near the root, to allow the root portion of the prop to contribute
to the overall thrust. By minimizing the amount of blades, you minimize
the losses near the tips of the blades. Remember, the losses are highest
at the tips because of the higher speed in that area.
Also, compare this particular Woodcomp prop to the Ellipse prop. The
only thing missing here is the tip, which is way to wide. The root
portion has great similarities. The Woodcomp prop may be quite an
affordable compromise.
If you can somehow lay your hands on a (affordable) 4 blade, elliptical
prop, well, I would beg you to order one for me too.
--
Frans Veldman
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing |
Frans,
Most of the time in a situation like yours, I add glass to the front
cover gap, tape it in place on the rear pant where it looks good and
fits without flexing (with release tape of course) and allow to cure to
fill the gaps. Then sand and fill.
Having made my own entire speed kit, I disagree with your point on being
a bargain. Although the nose gear pant is wonky, the gear leg covers
are finiky, try making them from scratch or even buying from a third
party. It takes me a half day per 5 day week to mold my pants, and wing
covers. Gear legs and covers take another two days. Yes they are very
nice, but then I have to make the metal parts, get the fasteners and
hardware together etc. It still takes 40 hours to do a nice job of
alignment, fillets and transitions that allow full gear leg movement
without cracking. I have about 60 hours into my set and I will not make
another. I'll buy them. The mods to make them fit nicely is far
easier. Try doing an RV speed kit sometime....Talk about frustrating.
It is always about life being too short and time is money isn't it.
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Frans Veldman<mailto:frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 4:51 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tri-gear wheel fairing
<frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl<mailto:frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>>
ALAN YERLY wrote:
> Looks great, I never thought of that Frans, looks fast and easy.
I didn't think of that as well. I was just wondering whether I could
force the front half somewhat in the correct direction. To do this, I
attached the starboard side of the front half fairing to the rear half
of the fairing, to be able to bend the port side, and then discovered
that I could get the correct shape, without any bending, but at the
cost
of creating a gap at the port seal. If you try to close this gap, the
fairing twists and takes its odd shape again. Leave it alone, and all
is
right.
I love to think out solutions, but this one is really a coincidence,
not
the result of thinking.
Next time you prepare a speed kit, try it, and let me know if it works
out the same for you.
I think it is a shame that it isn't covered in the manual. These parts
are not really a bargain, I somehow expected that the manual is
adjusted
to the experiences of builders (and preferably, not only the manual
but
the parts as well).
--
Frans Veldman
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing |
ALAN YERLY wrote:
> Having made my own entire speed kit, I disagree with your point on
> being a bargain. Although the nose gear pant is wonky, the gear leg
> covers are finiky, try making them from scratch or even buying from a
I think you missed my point. Let me clarify it with a sketch:
Customer: I'm not happy with the TV-set I bought last week.
Seller: Why is that?
C: It doesn't show the color red. It is bad to view movies like this. I
want to swap it for another set.
S: That won't help you.
C: Why not?
S: All these TV-sets have the same problem.
C: But I paid good money for it!
S: Well, actually it is a bargain!
C: A bargain?
S: Yes. I once constructed my own TV-set. Do you know how much work that
is? First of all, you have to make a Printed Circuit Board. You have to
mess with nasty chemicals to etch the traces. It will take quite some
samples and time before you got that right. Then you have to....
C: I don't want to know. I guess you just found out about the problem?
S: No, we have had this problem from the beginning. A couple of years
now actually.
C: A couple of years! Why didn't you fix it?
S: Well, people keep buying these flawed units anyway. Besides, all
electronic devices, like TV-sets, need to be tested for spurious
emissions. We got our FCC certificate, and if we change the TV-set, we
have to go through the testing procedure again.
C: Changing it? It is just fixing it! And besides, what does the color
red have to do with spurious emissions?
S: Well, you know it, I know it, but so are the rules. And we just hate
to have to go through the testing phase again.
C: But what should I do?
S: Well, you can try tapping it on the left side of the panel. That
usually helps.
C: So you know a fix for it?
S: Yes, we use this fix ourselves. We can't show it to potential
customers the way it is.
C: If you know a fix, why don't you put it in the manual? Just a slight
hint that it could be possible that the color red doesn't show, and that
tapping the panel will cure it?
S: Well, it takes time to revise the manual. We don't type that fast.
Furthermore, it would reveal potential customers that our product is
flawed. And besides, it would be cheating. This is part of the challenge
of using our TV-set. We consider that as a plus. And, last but not
least, we love to see on the internet forums how peope struggle with it,
and come up with solutions.
C: So, actually I should be happy?
S: Yes, you should be very happy. It is a bargain, and it is a challenge
for you, to keep you busy. Just watching TV isn't fun if you haven't
gone through all this.
--
Frans Veldman
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing |
Well put friend.
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Frans Veldman<mailto:frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Saturday, May 16, 2009 3:19 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tri-gear wheel fairing
<frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl<mailto:frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>>
ALAN YERLY wrote:
> Having made my own entire speed kit, I disagree with your point on
> being a bargain. Although the nose gear pant is wonky, the gear leg
> covers are finiky, try making them from scratch or even buying from
a
I think you missed my point. Let me clarify it with a sketch:
Customer: I'm not happy with the TV-set I bought last week.
Seller: Why is that?
C: It doesn't show the color red. It is bad to view movies like this.
I
want to swap it for another set.
S: That won't help you.
C: Why not?
S: All these TV-sets have the same problem.
C: But I paid good money for it!
S: Well, actually it is a bargain!
C: A bargain?
S: Yes. I once constructed my own TV-set. Do you know how much work
that
is? First of all, you have to make a Printed Circuit Board. You have
to
mess with nasty chemicals to etch the traces. It will take quite some
samples and time before you got that right. Then you have to....
C: I don't want to know. I guess you just found out about the problem?
S: No, we have had this problem from the beginning. A couple of years
now actually.
C: A couple of years! Why didn't you fix it?
S: Well, people keep buying these flawed units anyway. Besides, all
electronic devices, like TV-sets, need to be tested for spurious
emissions. We got our FCC certificate, and if we change the TV-set, we
have to go through the testing procedure again.
C: Changing it? It is just fixing it! And besides, what does the color
red have to do with spurious emissions?
S: Well, you know it, I know it, but so are the rules. And we just
hate
to have to go through the testing phase again.
C: But what should I do?
S: Well, you can try tapping it on the left side of the panel. That
usually helps.
C: So you know a fix for it?
S: Yes, we use this fix ourselves. We can't show it to potential
customers the way it is.
C: If you know a fix, why don't you put it in the manual? Just a
slight
hint that it could be possible that the color red doesn't show, and
that
tapping the panel will cure it?
S: Well, it takes time to revise the manual. We don't type that fast.
Furthermore, it would reveal potential customers that our product is
flawed. And besides, it would be cheating. This is part of the
challenge
of using our TV-set. We consider that as a plus. And, last but not
least, we love to see on the internet forums how peope struggle with
it,
and come up with solutions.
C: So, actually I should be happy?
S: Yes, you should be very happy. It is a bargain, and it is a
challenge
for you, to keep you busy. Just watching TV isn't fun if you haven't
gone through all this.
--
Frans Veldman
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Tri-gear wheel fairing |
Frans,
This is hilarious, (especially since it isn't happening to me).... Please
don't ever change my friend and keep up the postings.
Cheers, Paul
do not archive
On Sat, May 16, 2009 at 2:19 PM, Frans Veldman <frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl>wrote:
>
> I think you missed my point. Let me clarify it with a sketch:
>
> Customer: I'm not happy with the TV-set I bought last week.
>
> Seller: Why is that?
>
> C: It doesn't show the color red. It is bad to view movies like this. I
> want to swap it for another set.
>
> S: That won't help you.
>
> C: Why not?
>
> ..........
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