Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:19 AM - rear bearing play problem (Jan de Jong)
2. 04:29 AM - Re: rear bearing play problem (craig bastin)
3. 05:40 AM - Re: rear bearing play problem (Rowland Carson)
4. 07:25 AM - Re: rear bearing play problem (Robert C Harrison)
5. 07:56 AM - Re: Reduce speed in approach (rampil)
6. 09:25 AM - Re: rear bearing play problem (Jan de Jong)
7. 10:14 AM - Re: rear bearing play problem (Jan de Jong)
8. 10:15 AM - Re: rear bearing play problem (Jan de Jong)
9. 10:16 AM - Flap extension (Frank Mycroft)
10. 01:28 PM - Windsor/Detroit Red Bull Air Races (david miller)
11. 04:14 PM - Re: Coolant core question - "Aw shit" (ofamerica.com YERLY)
12. 05:51 PM - Aileron deflections (Karl Heindl)
Message 1
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| Subject: | rear bearing play problem |
I would like some advice.
I am at the end of Ch 13 where the aileron drives have been installed on
the bottom of the cockpit module including cross tube and sticks.
I find I have a problem. When exercising a stick sideways while holding
the cross tube there is play in the corresponding rear bearing - tufnol
CS06 and CS07 aluminium flange. Port side worst. Bang - bang - bang. I
think there is about 10 mils (0.25 mm) room. The bearings.are not
greased/oiled yet and I can actually see light through the crack. When
one holds the cross tube the resulting play at the top of the port stick
is about 0.5 mm (arm roughly doubled). It seems like a little but I fear
this will be annoying in operation.
I'm not looking forward to replacing the tufnol parts. Removing the CS07
from the steel tube undamaged will be essential if I want to keep all
the rest of the setup.
If I have to then heating the tube from the inside with a halogen bulb
may work best
Another question is whether replacement CS06 from Europa will be a
better fit (I don't remember doing anything to the insides of the
offending ones).
ACS has 1/2" micarta if necessary.
Any thoughts very welcome.
Jan de Jong
Message 2
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| Subject: | rear bearing play problem |
I had an issue with my cs07's being non-concentric, which i discovered after
making the cs06 captive, with the sticks binding at extremes of travel. The runout
did seem to be about the same on both. If yours is excessively free, maybe you
could reach a compromise by deliberately mis-aligning the bearing very very slightly,
which is basically the reverse of what I did to free mine up.
craig
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jan de Jong
Sent: Friday, 12 June 2009 8:16 PM
Subject: Europa-List: rear bearing play problem
I would like some advice.
I am at the end of Ch 13 where the aileron drives have been installed on
the bottom of the cockpit module including cross tube and sticks.
I find I have a problem. When exercising a stick sideways while holding
the cross tube there is play in the corresponding rear bearing - tufnol
CS06 and CS07 aluminium flange. Port side worst. Bang - bang - bang. I
think there is about 10 mils (0.25 mm) room. The bearings.are not
greased/oiled yet and I can actually see light through the crack. When
one holds the cross tube the resulting play at the top of the port stick
is about 0.5 mm (arm roughly doubled). It seems like a little but I fear
this will be annoying in operation.
I'm not looking forward to replacing the tufnol parts. Removing the CS07
from the steel tube undamaged will be essential if I want to keep all
the rest of the setup.
If I have to then heating the tube from the inside with a halogen bulb
may work best
Another question is whether replacement CS06 from Europa will be a
better fit (I don't remember doing anything to the insides of the
offending ones).
ACS has 1/2" micarta if necessary.
Any thoughts very welcome.
Jan de Jong
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: rear bearing play problem |
At 2009-06-12 12:15 +0200 Jan de Jong wrote:
>there is play in the corresponding rear bearing - tufnol CS06 and
>CS07 aluminium flange. Port side worst. Bang - bang - bang. I think
>there is about 10 mils (0.25 mm) room. The bearings.are not
>greased/oiled yet and I can actually see light through the crack
Jan - the advice I received from the factory is that the Tufnol
bearings should NOT be greased or oiled. My inspector confirmed that
oil is a BAD THING here - it collects dust which then turns into
grinding paste and destroys the bearing. I did put a thin film of
non-silicone furniture wax on mine, but as it's not tacky it does not
tend to collect stray particles in the same way as grease, and does
not migrate easily like oil.
I'm trying to visualise how you're getting your eye in position to
see the gap between CS06 & CS07. Even if CS06 is not bolted in (so
you can get your eye close to CS05), the flange of CS07 must prevent
seeing daylight in the gap. But that's not important, obviously you
have a gap from the evidence of play in the system.
>I'm not looking forward to replacing the tufnol parts. Removing the
>CS07 from the steel tube undamaged will be essential if I want to
>keep all the rest of the setup.
>If I have to then heating the tube from the inside with a halogen
>bulb may work best
If you remove the CS07 from CS05 (and heat, perhaps a hot-air gun, is
the way to make Redux give way) how will you be able to position the
rivet holes in the new CS07? You want them to align exactly with the
original holes in CS05 so the rivets will hold. I can't think of a
really easy way to do that. Maybe CS05 could be clamped in position
with vee-blocks on a drill-press table to align correctly with the
drill bit, and then CS07 slipped on to be drilled. For subsequent
holes, the first hole would need to have a rivet inserted to keep the
alignment correct.
>Another question is whether replacement CS06 from Europa will be a better fit
You could ask the factory to supply a pair of CS07-CS06 and ask that
they be checked for correct fit before dispatch.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson http://home.clara.net/rowil/
| <rowil@clara.net> ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ...
Message 4
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| Subject: | rear bearing play problem |
Hi! Jan
It looks to me that you have serious discrepancy of tolerances.
In my experience most folks had "binding" of these bushings and needed
to "bed" them in by the use of a copper cleaning item called "Brasso" to
free up any stiffness.
Regards
Bob Harrison .
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan de Jong
Sent: 12 June 2009 11:16
Subject: Europa-List: rear bearing play problem
I would like some advice.
I am at the end of Ch 13 where the aileron drives have been installed on
the bottom of the cockpit module including cross tube and sticks.
I find I have a problem. When exercising a stick sideways while holding
the cross tube there is play in the corresponding rear bearing - tufnol
CS06 and CS07 aluminium flange. Port side worst. Bang - bang - bang. I
think there is about 10 mils (0.25 mm) room. The bearings.are not
greased/oiled yet and I can actually see light through the crack. When
one holds the cross tube the resulting play at the top of the port stick
is about 0.5 mm (arm roughly doubled). It seems like a little but I fear
this will be annoying in operation.
I'm not looking forward to replacing the tufnol parts. Removing the CS07
from the steel tube undamaged will be essential if I want to keep all
the rest of the setup.
If I have to then heating the tube from the inside with a halogen bulb
may work best
Another question is whether replacement CS06 from Europa will be a
better fit (I don't remember doing anything to the insides of the
offending ones).
ACS has 1/2" micarta if necessary.
Any thoughts very welcome.
Jan de Jong
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Reduce speed in approach |
Hi Michel,
To answer your other questions, the trigear flaps are independent
of the the landing gear (since the gear are fixed!) and the flaps are
continuously variable 0-25 degrees.
If I were in your position, I would pay very careful attention to what
David Stanbridge has to say, unless you have a wish to splint your
airframe into one of those mountains.
Instead, consider using a slip which the Europa does quite well to lose
altitude without increasing speed.
Please be careful!
Ira
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247817#247817
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: rear bearing play problem |
craig bastin wrote:
>
> I had an issue with my cs07's being non-concentric, which i discovered after
> making the cs06 captive, with the sticks binding at extremes of travel. The runout
> did seem to be about the same on both. If yours is excessively free, maybe you
> could reach a compromise by deliberately mis-aligning the bearing very very slightly,
> which is basically the reverse of what I did to free mine up.
>
> craig
>
Hi Craig,
A misalignment of about 1 in 50 would be required, about 2 or 3 mm end
to end. A bit much and not much bearing surface then.
A possibility but I am not enthousiastic.
Jan
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: rear bearing play problem |
Rowland,
> Jan - the advice I received from the factory is that the Tufnol
> bearings should NOT be greased or oiled. My inspector confirmed that
> oil is a BAD THING here - it collects dust which then turns into
> grinding paste and destroys the bearing. I did put a thin film of
> non-silicone furniture wax on mine, but as it's not tacky it does not
> tend to collect stray particles in the same way as grease, and does
> not migrate easily like oil.
Does this apply to the front bearing too?
>
> I'm trying to visualise how you're getting your eye in position to see
> the gap between CS06 & CS07. Even if CS06 is not bolted in (so you can
> get your eye close to CS05), the flange of CS07 must prevent seeing
> daylight in the gap. But that's not important, obviously you have a
> gap from the evidence of play in the system.
Cockpit upside down, sighting rearwards along steel tube CS05, seeing
front section of aluminium flange CS07 and front face of tufnol part
CS06 I see light.between CS07 and CS06 shine through from space between
rear of CS06 and flanged part of CS07. Never mind.
> If you remove the CS07 from CS05 (and heat, perhaps a hot-air gun, is
> the way to make Redux give way) how will you be able to position the
> rivet holes in the new CS07? You want them to align exactly with the
> original holes in CS05 so the rivets will hold. I can't think of a
> really easy way to do that. Maybe CS05 could be clamped in position
> with vee-blocks on a drill-press table to align correctly with the
> drill bit, and then CS07 slipped on to be drilled. For subsequent
> holes, the first hole would need to have a rivet inserted to keep the
> alignment correct.
I intend to not replace CS07 if at all possible and reuse all rivet
holes after carefully drilling the rivets out. Heating either from
inside CS05 or outside CS07 or both.
Aluminium has very good thermal conductivity (7 or 8 times as much as
steel Wikepedia says) so heating outside may suffice.
If Europa supplied CS06 are too big then producing a fitting CS06 from
scratch will still be easier then replacing CS07. As you say the holes
in CS05 will be almost impossible to find.
There is also the possibility of oversize pop rivets if necessary to
preserve CS07?
Thanks,
Jan
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: rear bearing play problem |
Hi Bob,
I read a lot about binding relief in the archives indeed - never a
mention of too much play...
Regards,
Jan
Robert C Harrison wrote:
>
> Hi! Jan
> It looks to me that you have serious discrepancy of tolerances.
> In my experience most folks had "binding" of these bushings and needed
> to "bed" them in by the use of a copper cleaning item called "Brasso" to
> free up any stiffness.
> Regards
> Bob Harrison .
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jan de Jong
> Sent: 12 June 2009 11:16
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: rear bearing play problem
>
>
> I would like some advice.
>
> I am at the end of Ch 13 where the aileron drives have been installed on
>
> the bottom of the cockpit module including cross tube and sticks.
> I find I have a problem. When exercising a stick sideways while holding
> the cross tube there is play in the corresponding rear bearing - tufnol
> CS06 and CS07 aluminium flange. Port side worst. Bang - bang - bang. I
> think there is about 10 mils (0.25 mm) room. The bearings.are not
> greased/oiled yet and I can actually see light through the crack. When
> one holds the cross tube the resulting play at the top of the port stick
>
> is about 0.5 mm (arm roughly doubled). It seems like a little but I fear
>
> this will be annoying in operation.
>
> I'm not looking forward to replacing the tufnol parts. Removing the CS07
>
> from the steel tube undamaged will be essential if I want to keep all
> the rest of the setup.
> If I have to then heating the tube from the inside with a halogen bulb
> may work best
> Another question is whether replacement CS06 from Europa will be a
> better fit (I don't remember doing anything to the insides of the
> offending ones).
> ACS has 1/2" micarta if necessary.
>
> Any thoughts very welcome.
>
> Jan de Jong
>
>
>
Message 9
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It is my recollection that in the early stages of development of the
Europa (when almost any degree of flap could have been designed in) it
was found that anything more than 25degrees increased drag but did not
increase lift. In other words more flap could give you a steeper
approach, but would not reduce the stalling speed.
Frank Mycroft
Message 10
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| Subject: | Windsor/Detroit Red Bull Air Races |
Weather looks good for the races over the river between the two
cities, should be a spectacular event.
I'm planning on flying into Windsor at about 10 Am tomorrow
(Saturday), the race aircraft are being staged out of Windsor.
Anyone attending who wants to try to meet up, give me a call, Home,
519-666-0480, Mobile 519-931-1095
Chris Staines will also be flying down in his mono.
Dave, C-FBZI
Do not archive
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Coolant core question - "Aw shit" |
Sorry for being so busy lately, I missed your problem.
I too had a similar problem on the old classic. I had it checked at a
radiator shop and all was well. I will fly it, but if it fails, I found
that the cooling tube goes all the way from front to back and my welder
suspects that cutting away a bit of the aluminum heat fin away in the
front and a tack on the dent with the tig welder would make it
serviceable...
As far as replacements go, there are specialty shops which make coolers
for racing, but at a cost and tinkering. I'm just going to cough up the
dough for the original to forgo the inevitable reinvention of the wheel.
Easier to remove and replace than reinvent.
Whoever thinks that radiator seal or glue (redux) is the answer, please
don't. Better to be safe on the ground with a leak than in the air with
one waiting to happen.
Just my opinion
Bud
----- Original Message -----
From: Paul McAllister<mailto:paul.the.aviator@gmail.com>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 2:28 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Coolant core question - "Aw shit"
Hi all,
This question is probably for the US folks. I had a serious "Aw shit"
on Monday night. I had my coolant radiator from my XS on my workshop
floor and a G clamp fell off the shelf and put a dent in one of the
water tubes. The tube isn't fractured, however it sure looks like a
place that will spring a leak. My first inclination was to just buy
another one and I my still do so, however a new one from Europa is $540
plus freight.
My question to the forum is does anyone know of a specialist welding
shop that would take a look at the core.
Another approach is for me to pressure test it for a bunch of cycles
and see if it leaks, (maybe even bead blast it and put some Redux on it
to reinforce it). Any suggestions on what pressure ? 1.2 BAR + 18,000
+ 25 % ?
Thanks, Paul
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Aileron deflections |
I am currently rigging my glider wings=2C hopefully for the last time.
In the workshop I measured the aileron down deflection to be 20 degrees =2C
it is supposed to be 20 down and 23 1/2 up. Now I measure a maximum of 18
and 16 for down=2C and about 30 up.
My question is : is it really important to stick to the figures in the book
=2C or is it the sumtotal of up plus down when making a turn. These dreaded
lead weights are the reason for the down restriction and I would prefer no
t having to shave them down.
Any ideas ?
Karl
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