---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 06/13/09: 9 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:11 AM - Re: Aileron deflections (Thomas Scherer) 2. 03:21 AM - Fuselage cradle (flyingphil2) 3. 04:43 AM - Re: Flap extension (Duncan & Ami McFadyean) 4. 05:23 AM - Re: Fuselage cradle (Flying Farmer) 5. 08:59 AM - Third Annual Europa Fly in (Paul McAllister) 6. 09:48 AM - Re: Third Annual Europa Fly in (JEFF ROBERTS) 7. 11:29 AM - Re: tank size (jpg12305) 8. 12:50 PM - Re: Re: tank size (Paul McAllister) 9. 06:10 PM - Re: Aileron deflections (Karl Heindl) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:11:50 AM PST US From: "Thomas Scherer" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron deflections Karl, not being an aerodynamacist I would still strongly opt for going 'by the book' here ! I recall having to shave mine to achieve the nrs. For the weight lost I filled the previously filled holes and things were fine. If you allow a relative shift f your deflections you'll end up with the stick being off-center all the time in the lightest case and with a unpredictable aeroplane in the worst case (if the offsets of both wings do not happen to coincide). So, go shaving ! I am sure you had worse jobs 'a do. And I remember that feeling on fair-weather days that one could be in the air a little earlier at the price of less attention to detail. But refrain. She will pay it all back to you. be well, Thomas ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Saturday, June 13, 2009 2:48 AM Subject: Europa-List: Aileron deflections I am currently rigging my glider wings, hopefully for the last time. In the workshop I measured the aileron down deflection to be 20 degrees , it is supposed to be 20 down and 23 1/2 up. Now I measure a maximum of 18 and 16 for down, and about 30 up. My question is : is it really important to stick to the figures in the book, or is it the sumtotal of up plus down when making a turn. These dreaded lead weights are the reason for the down restriction and I would prefer not having to shave them down. Any ideas ? Karl ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:21:38 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Fuselage cradle From: "flyingphil2" Hi, I have a metal fuselage cradle that is constructed to the Europa factory design. I'm going to be doing some proper fuselage work soon and I don't think this cradle will be sturdy enough. If nothing else it wants modifying to prevent it damaging the lower moulding. I've been looking at the 'Chuck Popenhoe knock down' cradle and it seems to be simple, study and effective and so I think I need to make one of those. Before I make one, has anyone got one lying around in their workshop that they don't need anymore? I'm in the Midlands in the UK but can travel to pick it up. Regards, Phil Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:43:59 AM PST US From: "Duncan & Ami McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flap extension The "definitive" discussion on flap setting is in the No. 7 Factory Newsletter, March 1994 (excerpt attached here). One (or two ) of the taildragger conversions (which use the tri gear electrically driven means of flap activation) have flap settings up to (I am told) 40 degrees. It is reported that 30 to 35 degrees gives a useful increase in drag to enable steeper approaches. Collective aerodynamic wisdom suggests that about 30 degrees is the general limit of any benefit for simple Fowler flaps. Do any tri gear pilots have a view on the best flap setting for the shortest possible take off distance? And the optimum setting to take off AND clear a, say, 50' obstacle (i.e. best compromise for the safest departure). Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: Frank Mycroft To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 5:44 PM Subject: Europa-List: Flap extension It is my recollection that in the early stages of development of the Europa (when almost any degree of flap could have been designed in) it was found that anything more than 25degrees increased drag but did not increase lift. In other words more flap could give you a steeper approach, but would not reduce the stalling speed. Frank Mycroft ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:23:05 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuselage cradle From: "Flying Farmer" Phil, I have a very strong cradle you can have, It was given to me and it its yours if you want to collect it, It will need a Pickup to fit it in. I will e-mail you some pictures laler today. I,m in Halifax, UK J24 M62 if this helps. Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:59:36 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Third Annual Europa Fly in From: Paul McAllister Third Annual Europa Fly in Hail all Europaphiles That time of year approaches again !! The second Annual Europa Fly-in will be held on the weekend of September 19 & 20, 2009 at Rough River State Park. For those who haven=92t attended before, Rough River is part of the Kentucky State Park system with its own airport (2I3), camping facilities and a lodge, which is walking distance from the airport. The lodge has bot h rooms and cabin style accommodation. Rough River offers walking trails, fishing, beach, golfing and a large marina that has rental craft of all sizes available. The Conventions Manager of the Rough River Resort ( Leighanne Logsdon ) is holding a block of rooms for the Europa fly in until the 19th of June, so for those who have not booked yet, let them know that you are part of this event and they will make one of these rooms available to you. I would encourage everyone to take advantage of the block reservations as once Leighanne releases them to the general public they will be booked up quickly For reservations call 800-325-1713. http://parks.ky.gov/resortparks/rr/ http://www.airnav.com/airport/2I3 Please let me or Jeff know if you are contemplating attending. It would help us better plan the event if we had an approximate headcount. Jeff & Paul Paul can be contacted on paul.the.aviator@gmail.com and Jeff can be contacted on topglock@cox.net ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:48:16 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Third Annual Europa Fly in Paul & Jeff, I and Gold Rush will be attending this third event. Jeff... If last years arrangements with the cabin are still on I'm in. Let me know when you get a chance. Looking forward to it. Regards, Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 186 hours and climbing slowly. On Jun 13, 2009, at 10:29 AM, Paul McAllister wrote: > Third Annual Europa Fly in > > Hail all Europaphiles > > > That time of year approaches again !! The second Annual Europa Fly-in > will be held on the weekend of September 19 & 20, 2009 at Rough River > State Park. For those who havent attended before, Rough River is > part of the Kentucky State Park system with its own airport (2I3), > camping facilities and a lodge, which is walking distance from the > airport. The lodge has both rooms and cabin style accommodation. > > Rough River offers walking trails, fishing, beach, golfing and a large > marina that has rental craft of all sizes available. > > The Conventions Manager of the Rough River Resort ( Leighanne Logsdon > ) is holding a block of rooms for the Europa fly in until the 19th of > June, so for those who have not booked yet, let them know that you are > part of this event and they will make one of these rooms available to > you. I would encourage everyone to take advantage of the block > reservations as once Leighanne releases them to the general public > they will be booked up quickly > > For reservations call 800-325-1713. > > http://parks.ky.gov/resortparks/rr/ > http://www.airnav.com/airport/2I3 > > > Please let me or Jeff know if you are contemplating attending. It > would help us better plan the event if we had an approximate > headcount. > > Jeff & Paul > > Paul can be contacted on paul.the.aviator@gmail.com and Jeff can be > contacted on topglock@cox.net > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:29:16 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: tank size From: "jpg12305" I get 65 liters total, 7 liters reserve. It seems there is significant variability here.... Jean-Paul Monowheel 332 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=247966#247966 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:07 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: tank size From: Paul McAllister Hi Jean-Paul & others I measured mine last year and I seemed be able to get a little more in after 4 years of "bulging and sagging" of the tank. I came us with 19.1 US Gallons which is 72 liters in total. Paul ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:10:18 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Aileron deflections Thomas=2C You are absolutely right. I was just looking for a quick fix. As it turned out=2C only one wing was really affected and easily fixed by grinding away a little from the mass balance boxes=2C plus some pushrod adjustments on bo th wings. The glider ailerons are a really close fit in a very narrow closeout. Maybe it's just me=2C but the clearances on the short wings were much easier to work with. best regards=2C Karl From: thomas@scherer.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron deflections Karl=2C not being an aerodynamacist I would still strongly opt for going 'by the bo ok' here ! I recall having to shave mine to achieve the nrs. For the weight lost I fil led the previously filled holes and things were fine. If you allow a relative shift f your deflections you'll end up with the sti ck being off-center all the time in the lightest case and with a unpredicta ble aeroplane in the worst case (if the offsets of both wings do not happen to coincide). So=2C go shaving ! I am sure you had worse jobs 'a do. And I remember that feeling on fair-weather days that one could be in the air a little earlier at the price of less attention to detail. But refrain. She will pay it all back to you. be well=2C Thomas ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl Sent: Saturday=2C June 13=2C 2009 2:48 AM Subject: Europa-List: Aileron deflections I am currently rigging my glider wings=2C hopefully for the last time. In the workshop I measured the aileron down deflection to be 20 degrees =2C it is supposed to be 20 down and 23 1/2 up. Now I measure a maximum of 18 and 16 for down=2C and about 30 up. My question is : is it really important to stick to the figures in the book =2C or is it the sumtotal of up plus down when making a turn. These dreaded lead weights are the reason for the down restriction and I would prefer no t having to shave them down. Any ideas ? Karl href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.