---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 06/14/09: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 07:46 AM - Re: Coolant core question - "Aw shit" (Chris Beck) 2. 09:44 AM - Re: Coolant core question - "Aw shit" (Paul McAllister) 3. 10:12 AM - Re: Aileron deflections (ofamerica.com YERLY) 4. 01:09 PM - Re: Aileron deflections (Karl Heindl) 5. 01:40 PM - Is it advisable to introduce a little washout when bonding on top wingskins? (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 6. 03:16 PM - Re: Aileron deflections (Jan de Jong) 7. 03:55 PM - Re: Aileron deflections (ofamerica.com YERLY) 8. 05:21 PM - Re: Third Annual Europa Fly in (Robert Borger) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 07:46:24 AM PST US From: Chris Beck Subject: Re: Europa-List: Coolant core question - "Aw shit" I'm assuming it's aluminum, no? If so, pretty much any weld shop that can handle aluminum TIG welding can repair it. Even better would be a shop that specializes in race cars or motorcycles since many times they are fabricating custom tanks and/or radiators and intercoolers out of aluminum. Chris Paul McAllister wrote: > Hi all, > > This question is probably for the US folks. I had a serious "Aw shit" > on Monday night. I had my coolant radiator from my XS on my workshop > floor and a G clamp fell off the shelf and put a dent in one of the > water tubes. The tube isn't fractured, however it sure looks like a > place that will spring a leak. My first inclination was to just buy > another one and I my still do so, however a new one from Europa is > $540 plus freight. > > My question to the forum is does anyone know of a specialist welding > shop that would take a look at the core. > > Another approach is for me to pressure test it for a bunch of cycles > and see if it leaks, (maybe even bead blast it and put some Redux on > it to reinforce it). Any suggestions on what pressure ? 1.2 BAR + > 18,000 + 25 % ? > > Thanks, Paul > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 09:44:34 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Coolant core question - "Aw shit" From: Paul McAllister Hi Chris, Nice to see your name on the forum, I havent heard from you in a long time. Lets hope that this is a sign of you getting back into building again ! I have done a bit of research and yes, it would seem that most radiator shops can handle this sort of thing. I did take it to a master welder who specializes in stuff for the aerospace industry. He does (among other things) very fine TIG welding, but was of the opinion that aluminum brazing would be the way to go which wasn't something he was set up for. I have found a number of places on the WEB that specialize in this sort of thing for motor bikes and ATV's, but before I ship it off I am going to check to see if there is anyone local. I'll keep everyone posted as to the outcome. Paul On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Chris Beck wrote: > I'm assuming it's aluminum, no? If so, pretty much any weld shop that can > handle aluminum TIG welding can repair it. Even better would be a shop that > specializes in race cars or motorcycles since many times they are > fabricating custom tanks and/or radiators and intercoolers out of aluminum. > > Chris > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 10:12:40 AM PST US From: "ofamerica.com YERLY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron deflections Karl, The roll rate on the MG is a bit disappointing to me as a short wing flier so I go for the maximum. In the event you need it during a wake turbulence recovery or near miss, it's imperative to have full authority. Most always I build my weights out of foam and glue them on the leading edge to get the throw I need plus a little for filler and glass. Then I make the weight arms final. Only if you build the wing perfectly do the existing weights work. So far my batting average is 50%. As for the fix. Die grind the things down to get the down you need. Reglass over the top. Now drill a hole in the foam area behind the weight and add more lead. I mold some round slugs a half inch diameter and just slide them in to a floxed hole and touch up the hole with flox and filler. The up limit is most probably the filler on the top of the aileron. Sand the wing skin back until you get to the point where the build in stop on the aileron is the limit again. Doesn't take long. And by now the touchup is a breeze. Just another day in the shop. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:48 PM Subject: Europa-List: Aileron deflections I am currently rigging my glider wings, hopefully for the last time. In the workshop I measured the aileron down deflection to be 20 degrees , it is supposed to be 20 down and 23 1/2 up. Now I measure a maximum of 18 and 16 for down, and about 30 up. My question is : is it really important to stick to the figures in the book, or is it the sumtotal of up plus down when making a turn. These dreaded lead weights are the reason for the down restriction and I would prefer not having to shave them down. Any ideas ? Karl http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:09:51 PM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Aileron deflections Hi Bud=2C Thank you for the advice. I am almost there. I didn't have to shave the wei ghts=2C and the ailerons are in balance. More adjustments will be necessary after paint=2C but I left holes and=2C as you suggest=2C I can add more we ight behind the lead . At the moment I can't tell the difference between le ft and right=2C and up and down. When the left aileron is neutral=2C the ri ght one is slightly up. So I extend the inboard pushrd=2C and the aileron m oves up even more. Maybe it will make more sense tomorrow. Time for a beer. Regards=2C Karl From: budyerly@msn.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron deflections Karl=2C The roll rate on the MG is a bit disappointing to me as a short wing flier so I go for the maximum. In the event you need it during a wake turbulence recovery or near miss=2C it's imperative to have full authority. Most always I build my weights out of foam and glue them on the leading edg e to get the throw I need plus a little for filler and glass. Then I make the weight arms final. Only if you build the wing perfectly do the existing weights work. So far my batting average is 50%. As for the fix. Die grind the things down to get the down you need. Regla ss over the top. Now drill a hole in the foam area behind the weight and add more lead. I m old some round slugs a half inch diameter and just slide them in to a floxe d hole and touch up the hole with flox and filler. The up limit is most probably the filler on the top of the aileron. Sand t he wing skin back until you get to the point where the build in stop on the aileron is the limit again. Doesn't take long. And by now the touchup is a breeze. Just another day i n the shop. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl Sent: Friday=2C June 12=2C 2009 8:48 PM Subject: Europa-List: Aileron deflections I am currently rigging my glider wings=2C hopefully for the last time. In the workshop I measured the aileron down deflection to be 20 degrees =2C it is supposed to be 20 down and 23 1/2 up. Now I measure a maximum of 18 and 16 for down=2C and about 30 up. My question is : is it really important to stick to the figures in the book =2C or is it the sumtotal of up plus down when making a turn. These dreaded lead weights are the reason for the down restriction and I would prefer no t having to shave them down. Any ideas ? Karl href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhr ef="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:40:17 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Is it advisable to introduce a little washout when bonding on top wingskins? From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us I am getting close to bonding on top wingskins on short wings. My accelerated flaps and ailerons fall just a little shy of specified minimum amount of washout. I was assured by some to not worry about it. I fabricated aileron mass balance arms and weights so I can have just a little reflex on ailerons if needed and have mass balance arms flush with bottom of wing. My question is it advisable when bonding on top wingskins to introduce perhaps 3/16" or ??" of washout at aft end of wingtip? I am pretty sure 1/3 to 1/2 will will go away due to springback? Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 03:16:35 PM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron deflections Just a remark - tungsten welding electrode is an efficient mass with almost twice the density of lead. Jan de Jong Karl Heindl wrote: > > > Hi Bud, > > Thank you for the advice. I am almost there. I didn't have to shave > the weights, and the ailerons are in balance. More adjustments will be > necessary after paint, but I left holes and, as you suggest, I can add > more weight behind the lead . At the moment I can't tell the > difference between left and right, and up and down. When the left > aileron is neutral, the right one is slightly up. So I extend the > inboard pushrd, and the aileron moves up even more. Maybe it will make > more sense tomorrow. Time for a beer. > > Regards, Karl > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > From: budyerly@msn.com > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron deflections > Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 13:11:20 -0400 > > Karl, > The roll rate on the MG is a bit disappointing to me as a short wing > flier so I go for the maximum. In the event you need it during a wake > turbulence recovery or near miss, it's imperative to have full authority. > > Most always I build my weights out of foam and glue them on the > leading edge to get the throw I need plus a little for filler and > glass. Then I make the weight arms final. > > Only if you build the wing perfectly do the existing weights work. So > far my batting average is 50%. > > As for the fix. Die grind the things down to get the down you need. > Reglass over the top. > > Now drill a hole in the foam area behind the weight and add more > lead. I mold some round slugs a half inch diameter and just slide > them in to a floxed hole and touch up the hole with flox and filler. > > The up limit is most probably the filler on the top of the aileron. > Sand the wing skin back until you get to the point where the build in > stop on the aileron is the limit again. > > Doesn't take long. And by now the touchup is a breeze. Just another > day in the shop. > > Bud > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Karl Heindl > *To:* europa-list@matronics.com > *Sent:* Friday, June 12, 2009 8:48 PM > *Subject:* Europa-List: Aileron deflections > > > I am currently rigging my glider wings, hopefully for the last time. > In the workshop I measured the aileron down deflection to be 20 > degrees , it is supposed to be 20 down and 23 1/2 up. Now I > measure a maximum of 18 and 16 for down, and about 30 up. > My question is : is it really important to stick to the figures in > the book, or is it the sumtotal of up plus down when making a > turn. These dreaded lead weights are the reason for the down > restriction and I would prefer not having to shave them down. > Any ideas ? > > Karl > > > > > * > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c > * > > * > > >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > ronics.com > ww.matronics.com/contribution > > * > * > > > * ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 03:55:14 PM PST US From: "ofamerica.com YERLY" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron deflections I have made a correction the wrong way more than once. Beer solves that, as you'll come back to it with a relaxed clear head in the morning. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 3:59 PM Subject: RE: Europa-List: Aileron deflections Hi Bud, Thank you for the advice. I am almost there. I didn't have to shave the weights, and the ailerons are in balance. More adjustments will be necessary after paint, but I left holes and, as you suggest, I can add more weight behind the lead . At the moment I can't tell the difference between left and right, and up and down. When the left aileron is neutral, the right one is slightly up. So I extend the inboard pushrd, and the aileron moves up even more. Maybe it will make more sense tomorrow. Time for a beer. Regards, Karl ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: budyerly@msn.com To: europa-list@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron deflections Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 13:11:20 -0400 Karl, The roll rate on the MG is a bit disappointing to me as a short wing flier so I go for the maximum. In the event you need it during a wake turbulence recovery or near miss, it's imperative to have full authority. Most always I build my weights out of foam and glue them on the leading edge to get the throw I need plus a little for filler and glass. Then I make the weight arms final. Only if you build the wing perfectly do the existing weights work. So far my batting average is 50%. As for the fix. Die grind the things down to get the down you need. Reglass over the top. Now drill a hole in the foam area behind the weight and add more lead. I mold some round slugs a half inch diameter and just slide them in to a floxed hole and touch up the hole with flox and filler. The up limit is most probably the filler on the top of the aileron. Sand the wing skin back until you get to the point where the build in stop on the aileron is the limit again. Doesn't take long. And by now the touchup is a breeze. Just another day in the shop. Bud ----- Original Message ----- From: Karl Heindl To: europa-list@matronics.com Sent: Friday, June 12, 2009 8:48 PM Subject: Europa-List: Aileron deflections I am currently rigging my glider wings, hopefully for the last time. In the workshop I measured the aileron down deflection to be 20 degrees , it is supposed to be 20 down and 23 1/2 up. Now I measure a maximum of 18 and 16 for down, and about 30 up. My question is : is it really important to stick to the figures in the book, or is it the sumtotal of up plus down when making a turn. These dreaded lead weights are the reason for the down restriction and I would prefer not having to shave them down. Any ideas ? Karl href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matron href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:09 PM PST US From: Robert Borger Subject: Re: Europa-List: Third Annual Europa Fly in Paul, I will call tomorrow to make reservations. If I can get into the lodge (as required by my wife) we plan on being there this year. If no lodge, then I may be flying in alone. Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL Aircraft Flying! 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 On Jun 13, 2009, at 10:29, Paul McAllister wrote: > Third Annual Europa Fly in > > Hail all Europaphiles > > > That time of year approaches again !! The second Annual Europa Fly- > in will be held on the weekend of September 19 & 20, 2009 at Rough > River State Park. For those who haven=92t attended before, Rough > River is part of the Kentucky State Park system with its own airport > (2I3), camping facilities and a lodge, which is walking distance > from the airport. The lodge has both rooms and cabin style > accommodation. > > Rough River offers walking trails, fishing, beach, golfing and a > large marina that has rental craft of all sizes available. > > The Conventions Manager of the Rough River Resort ( Leighanne > Logsdon ) is holding a block of rooms for the Europa fly in until > the 19th of June, so for those who have not booked yet, let them > know that you are part of this event and they will make one of these > rooms available to you. I would encourage everyone to take > advantage of the block reservations as once Leighanne releases them > to the general public they will be booked up quickly > > For reservations call 800-325-1713. > > http://parks.ky.gov/resortparks/rr/ > http://www.airnav.com/airport/2I3 > > > Please let me or Jeff know if you are contemplating attending. It > would help us better plan the event if we had an approximate > headcount. > > Jeff & Paul > > Paul can be contacted on paul.the.aviator@gmail.com and Jeff can be > contacted on topglock@cox.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.