Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:54 AM - Re: 914 Slight Hesitation going Full Throttle? (Herve Chaussures)
2. 02:19 AM - Re: 914 Slight Hesitation going Full Throttle? (Paul McAllister)
3. 02:19 AM - Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix! (Remi Guerner)
4. 08:22 AM - Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix! (Erich Trombley)
5. 09:43 AM - Navaid controller (David Joyce)
6. 10:09 AM - Re: 914 Slight Hesitation going Full Throttle? (darinh)
7. 10:44 AM - Re: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix! (Cori Hayth)
8. 12:41 PM - Re: Navaid controller (Tony Crowe)
9. 01:23 PM - Re: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix! (G-IANI)
10. 01:38 PM - Re: Navaid controller (David Joyce)
11. 01:52 PM - Re: Navaid controller (JEFF ROBERTS)
12. 02:03 PM - Re: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix! (Robert Borger)
13. 02:04 PM - Re: Navaid controller (Mike Parkin)
14. 02:04 PM - Re: Re: 914 Slight Hesitation going Full Throttle? (Robert C Harrison)
15. 02:19 PM - Re: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix! (rparigoris)
16. 05:44 PM - Turbo problems??? (TheSchultzFamily)
17. 06:20 PM - Re: Turbo problems??? (Garry)
18. 06:53 PM - Re: Turbo problems??? (Brad Shafer)
19. 08:19 PM - 16.5 mm reamer (vaughanlee)
20. 09:08 PM - Re: 914 Slight Hesitation going Full Throttle? (darinh)
Message 1
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| Subject: | 914 Slight Hesitation going Full Throttle? |
Hi Darin,
I did have this problem once and with me it was the 2 inch rubber pipe in between
the carbs and the air box which have come loose and once split. Check??
Regards
Herve
Europa 914xs G.CHET.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com
Sent: 16 June 2009 07:52
Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Slight Hesitation going Full Throttle?
Hi Darin
I would check the waistgate cable to the turbo isnt sticking,
followed by both throttle cables are travelling the same amount towards their end
of travel before they reach the end stops,
Ivor
---- darinh <gerns25@netscape.net> wrote:
>
> First off, let me say that I fly a Kitfox not a Europa (although I would love
one) but you guys fly way more 914's than do the Kitfox guys so I come to you
with engine questions.
>
> I have a 914 (new with 45 hours thus far). The issue I am having is a very short
hesitation when going full throttle. Basically, when I push the throttle
up on take-off, it runs beautifully up to about 100% throttle or max. continuous
power position (35" MAP or so). Then as I go the last 15% and the boost kicks
in full, I get a very slight hesitation (maybe .5 seconds) then it continues
up to my 5700 rpm max. prop setting and 40" MAP. It doesn't seem to do this
when in the air and going WOT. I have a Airmasters prop and sometimes think
that this might be the cause as the electric motor that drives pitch lags slightly
behind the engine. Anyone experience this?
>
> --------
> Darin Hawkes
> Series 7
> 914 Turbo
> Kaysville, Utah
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248338#248338
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Slight Hesitation going Full Throttle? |
Hi Darin,
Have you checked your fuel flow ? Is it better or no different with the
second boost pump switched on ?
Paul
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| Subject: | Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix! |
Bob,
I experienced this sort of problem when I was flying behind the bloody
914.
There are several possible causes. Apart from a binding bowden cable,
one possible cause specific to the 914 is the throttle potentiometer on
the left carb. I found that this potentiometer was adding a lot of
friction to the left throttle, preventing the left carb to fully open
and/or delaying the opening. You can check that after disconnecting both
bowden cables from the carb lever and move the levers to compare right
and left side. The fix was to slightly bend the retaining arm to
increase the spring tension on the left side.
Hope that helps.
Best regards
Remi Guerner
F-PGKL, XS monowheel, 650 hours
<<<<<<Starboard throttle goes to full, port only goes half way. By
working
the throttle one can get full throttle on both, but that's not right.
I need a good fix for this problem. >>>>>>>>
Message 4
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| Subject: | Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix! |
Bob,
I have been using solid Bowden cable sold by ACS. I posted a mod severa
l years ago that I am sure can be extracted from the archives. While I
am sure there are a number of folks using the stranded wire setup with s
uccess, I wasn't comfortable using a cable in this application. Having
to rely on springs to advance/pull the throttle cable didn't sit well wi
th me. Solid wire is really suited for push/pull applications. I don't
know if you recall a mishap that occurred many years ago which was attr
ibuted to a sticking throttle cable. I believe it was a standard Europa
installation. Anyway, the pilot decided to execute a go-around and qui
ckly advanced the throttle only to have it kink within the throttle hous
ing; limiting available throttle to little more than idle power. The su
bsequent forced landing totaled the plane. Food for thought.
Erich Trombley
N28ET Classic Mono 914
____________________________________________________________
Free information on buying a New Vehicle. Click Here.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2131/fc/BLSrjnsJ3RXElXxMoxTaCLNW7Kzp
Lr0nskWCp93goC1WUiU4UB5sHggnelK/
Message 5
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| Subject: | Navaid controller |
I am open to offers for a Navaid control unit (ie the bit that is in the
panel, as opposed to the actuator mechanism), which has worked faultlessly
since I first flew in 2002, but is now surplus to requirements due to panel
upgrade. It has the bits for working with a GPS. I don't expect much, but
imagine it might be worth something to someone as a spare!
David Joyce, G-XSDJ
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Slight Hesitation going Full Throttle? |
Ivor,
The wastegate travels through its full movement without binding and so do the throttles.
Herve,
I will check these again but they seem to be good.
Paul,
It seems to be the same with one or both boost pumps running and fuel flow is good.
I did have an issue with a plugged fuel filter at about 20 hours but that
has been replaced. The plugged filter obviously caused significant hesitation
and rough running, so much so that I couldn't get much more than 4800 RPM.
I also installed the Bell intercooler which I had to modify for my installation
by cutting and rewelding the outlet 180 degrees to its original position.
Apparently, this modification changed the airflow characteristics just enough
that I was not getting the air I needed and the engine would hesitate and sputter
around 5000 rpm. Both the filter problem and the intercooler issue have been
remedied by either replacing or removing the items. Now I just have the very
short single hesitation described in the original post before it goes WOT.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248471#248471
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix! |
I too did as Paul and shortened the cables for a smooth route. I also
replaced the housing with Teflon lined ones from the bike shop. Pretty
smooth.
Europa XS Mono-Wheel
Inter-cooled Rotax 914
Airmaster Prop
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 10:38 PM , ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com wrote:
>
> I did exactly as Paul,
> IMHO there was way too much cable for the short run to the carbs,
> I have had no problems with the cables sticking so far,
> Ivor
> ---- Paul McAllister <paul.the.aviator@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>> Although the manual suggests not to cut the cables, I did. I routed
>> them to
>> be as straight as possible and then cut them to lenght. I haven't
>> ever had
>> a problem with mine hanging up, although I can't definatively say
>> that this
>> is because I shortened them.
>>
>> Paul
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | Navaid controller |
Hi David
Would you take 50 for it?
Tony
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce
Sent: 16 June 2009 17:33
Subject: Europa-List: Navaid controller
I am open to offers for a Navaid control unit (ie the bit that is in the
panel, as opposed to the actuator mechanism), which has worked faultlessly
since I first flew in 2002, but is now surplus to requirements due to panel
upgrade. It has the bits for working with a GPS. I don't expect much, but
imagine it might be worth something to someone as a spare!
David Joyce, G-XSDJ
Message 9
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| Subject: | Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix! |
Shortening the throttle cables is well worth doing.
I used Teflon lined cycle cable for the control valve on my heater. The
temperature at the lower end (just above the aft end of the oil cooler duct)
was sufficient to melt the Teflon and seize the cable solid.
While I appreciate that the temperature up by the carbs should be lower, I
think you should be careful about using cycle cable in this application.
Ian Rickard G-IANI XS Trigear, 200 hours
Europa Club Mods Rep (Trigear)
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Navaid controller |
Tony, Give me 48 hrs and if no-one has offered more it's yours for 50
Regards, David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Crowe" <groups@bobcroweaircraft.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:37 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Navaid controller
> <groups@bobcroweaircraft.com>
>
> Hi David
>
> Would you take 50 for it?
>
> Tony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce
> Sent: 16 June 2009 17:33
> To: Europa list
> Subject: Europa-List: Navaid controller
>
> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> I am open to offers for a Navaid control unit (ie the bit that is in the
> panel, as opposed to the actuator mechanism), which has worked faultlessly
> since I first flew in 2002, but is now surplus to requirements due to
> panel
> upgrade. It has the bits for working with a GPS. I don't expect much, but
> imagine it might be worth something to someone as a spare!
> David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: Navaid controller |
Guys,
I have replaced my Navaid head with a Trio so I also have one thats
hardly been used. It doesn't have the GPS connection but it's like new
and you can still get the adapter if needed. If anyone else out there,
perhaps here in the States is looking for one let me know. Would take
any offer as it's not doing me any good on the shelf.
Regards,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 186 hours and climbing slowly.
On Jun 16, 2009, at 3:14 PM, David Joyce wrote:
> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> Tony, Give me 48 hrs and if no-one has offered more it's yours for 50
> Regards, David
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Crowe"
> <groups@bobcroweaircraft.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:37 PM
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Navaid controller
>
>
>> <groups@bobcroweaircraft.com>
>>
>> Hi David
>>
>> Would you take 50 for it?
>>
>> Tony
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
>> Joyce
>> Sent: 16 June 2009 17:33
>> To: Europa list
>> Subject: Europa-List: Navaid controller
>>
>> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>>
>> I am open to offers for a Navaid control unit (ie the bit that is in
>> the
>> panel, as opposed to the actuator mechanism), which has worked
>> faultlessly
>> since I first flew in 2002, but is now surplus to requirements due to
>> panel
>> upgrade. It has the bits for working with a GPS. I don't expect much,
>> but
>> imagine it might be worth something to someone as a spare!
>> David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix! |
Erich,
Found your original post in the archive. This is about what I had
planned on doing. Your post implies the 0.078" Bowden Cable Inner
Wire fits in the original cable housing. Is this correct? If so, it
certainly makes life easier than having to replace the complete
original cable set with a complete Bowden Cable/Housing (2nd option).
Thanks,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, Intercooled 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
Aircraft Flying!
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
On Jun 16, 2009, at 10:18, Erich Trombley wrote:
> Bob,
>
> I have been using solid Bowden cable sold by ACS. I posted a mod
> several years ago that I am sure can be extracted from the
> archives. While I am sure there are a number of folks using the
> stranded wire setup with success, I wasn't comfortable using a cable
> in this application. Having to rely on springs to advance/pull the
> throttle cable didn't sit well with me. Solid wire is really suited
> for push/pull applications. I don't know if you recall a mishap
> that occurred many years ago which was attributed to a sticking
> throttle cable. I believe it was a standard Europa installation.
> Anyway, the pilot decided to execute a go-around and quickly
> advanced the throttle only to have it kink within the throttle
> housing; limiting available throttle to little more than idle
> power. The subsequent forced landing totaled the plane. Food for
> thought.
>
> Erich Trombley
> N28ET Classic Mono 914
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________
> Free information on buying a New Vehicle. Click Here.
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Navaid controller |
And another,
After David has finished, I have also updated my panel. I have a Navaid
Controller Head, GPS Smart Coupler and DG Coupler sat on a shelf gathering
dust. Open to offers.
Regards,
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF ROBERTS
Sent: 16 June 2009 21:50
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Navaid controller
Guys,
I have replaced my Navaid head with a Trio so I also have one thats
hardly been used. It doesn't have the GPS connection but it's like new
and you can still get the adapter if needed. If anyone else out there,
perhaps here in the States is looking for one let me know. Would take
any offer as it's not doing me any good on the shelf.
Regards,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 186 hours and climbing slowly.
On Jun 16, 2009, at 3:14 PM, David Joyce wrote:
> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> Tony, Give me 48 hrs and if no-one has offered more it's yours for 50
> Regards, David
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Crowe"
> <groups@bobcroweaircraft.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:37 PM
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Navaid controller
>
>
>> <groups@bobcroweaircraft.com>
>>
>> Hi David
>>
>> Would you take 50 for it?
>>
>> Tony
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David
>> Joyce
>> Sent: 16 June 2009 17:33
>> To: Europa list
>> Subject: Europa-List: Navaid controller
>>
>> <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>>
>> I am open to offers for a Navaid control unit (ie the bit that is in
>> the
>> panel, as opposed to the actuator mechanism), which has worked
>> faultlessly
>> since I first flew in 2002, but is now surplus to requirements due to
>> panel
>> upgrade. It has the bits for working with a GPS. I don't expect much,
>> but
>> imagine it might be worth something to someone as a spare!
>> David Joyce, G-XSDJ
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
17:54:00
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Slight Hesitation going Full Throttle? |
Hi! Darin
I have a Bell Intercooler fitted to my 914 and have no hesitation
whatsoever.
I can't point you to a cure for your problem but it looks like it wasn't
the intercooler at least.
Do you slam the throttle wide open or advance it more deliberately? It
just may be temporarily flooding the intakes.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of darinh
Sent: 16 June 2009 18:08
Subject: Europa-List: Re: 914 Slight Hesitation going Full Throttle?
Ivor,
The wastegate travels through its full movement without binding and so
do the throttles.
Herve,
I will check these again but they seem to be good.
Paul,
It seems to be the same with one or both boost pumps running and fuel
flow is good. I did have an issue with a plugged fuel filter at about
20 hours but that has been replaced. The plugged filter obviously
caused significant hesitation and rough running, so much so that I
couldn't get much more than 4800 RPM. I also installed the Bell
intercooler which I had to modify for my installation by cutting and
rewelding the outlet 180 degrees to its original position. Apparently,
this modification changed the airflow characteristics just enough that I
was not getting the air I needed and the engine would hesitate and
sputter around 5000 rpm. Both the filter problem and the intercooler
issue have been remedied by either replacing or removing the items. Now
I just have the very short single hesitation described in the original
post before it goes WOT.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248471#248471
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Sticking throttle cable, need a good fix! |
Hi Ian
Are you sure plastic lining was made out of Teflon?
Other plastics melt a lot lower.
Ron Parigoris
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 16
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| Subject: | Turbo problems??? |
Time for some group input. I was bad and did not fly for about 6 weeks. I
went out to the airport with good intentions to rectify that problem only to
find that above 60% power the engine would surge. I traced the problem to a
stuck waste gate. I have since freed it up with a little mouse milk on the
arm and the TCU servo and response to throttle seem to be good. The problem
I am now having is at about 60% power the engine starts to surge and trying
to go to full power just kills the engine. I "assume" it was turbo related
and pulled the air filter to check the turbo. The blades seem to turn fine.
A restart of the engine and all was good for about 2 days and then on run up
the problem returned. I can't seem to shake the feeling that I still have an
airflow problem but not sure how best to trouble shoot this one. Any
suggestions? I will be going back out tomorrow night to do a full power run
up with the plane tied down. I have monitored and logged the engine data but
it really just shows what you would expect with a surging engine. Change in
RMP change in Airbox pressure.... The engine has 180 hours on it and runs
great when it runs. Has anyone shot the inside of the turbo with a oil to
break up any carbon build up? I am trying to get a camera scope to have a
peek inside from the exhaust side.
Regards,
Rich Schultz
N262AE
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Turbo problems??? |
Try disconnecting the turbo airbox rubber hoses from the back of the carbs.
This will in effect give you a normally aspirated engine. Try a full power
run up and see what happens. If the surge disappears, then indeed you have
a turbo problem. If the surge remains, you've eliminated the turbo as the
source of the problem and should look to the carbs for a fix.
Garry Stout
----- Original Message -----
From: "TheSchultzFamily" <Theschultzfamily@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:42 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Turbo problems???
> <Theschultzfamily@comcast.net>
>
>
> Time for some group input. I was bad and did not fly for about 6 weeks. I
> went out to the airport with good intentions to rectify that problem only
> to
> find that above 60% power the engine would surge. I traced the problem to
> a
> stuck waste gate. I have since freed it up with a little mouse milk on the
> arm and the TCU servo and response to throttle seem to be good. The
> problem
> I am now having is at about 60% power the engine starts to surge and
> trying
> to go to full power just kills the engine. I "assume" it was turbo related
> and pulled the air filter to check the turbo. The blades seem to turn
> fine.
> A restart of the engine and all was good for about 2 days and then on run
> up
> the problem returned. I can't seem to shake the feeling that I still have
> an
> airflow problem but not sure how best to trouble shoot this one. Any
> suggestions? I will be going back out tomorrow night to do a full power
> run
> up with the plane tied down. I have monitored and logged the engine data
> but
> it really just shows what you would expect with a surging engine. Change
> in
> RMP change in Airbox pressure.... The engine has 180 hours on it and runs
> great when it runs. Has anyone shot the inside of the turbo with a oil to
> break up any carbon build up? I am trying to get a camera scope to have a
> peek inside from the exhaust side.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rich Schultz
> N262AE
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Turbo problems??? |
Is it ok to run the 914 like that? I found oil in the airbox and intercooler of
my 914. I'm afraid it's coming from the turbo so running without the turbo connected
might be a way to check.
Brad
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:19 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Turbo problems???
Try disconnecting the turbo airbox rubber hoses from the back of the carbs.
This will in effect give you a normally aspirated engine. Try a full power
run up and see what happens. If the surge disappears, then indeed you have
a turbo problem. If the surge remains, you've eliminated the turbo as the
source of the problem and should look to the carbs for a fix.
Garry Stout
----- Original Message -----
From: "TheSchultzFamily" <Theschultzfamily@comcast.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 8:42 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Turbo problems???
> <Theschultzfamily@comcast.net>
>
>
> Time for some group input. I was bad and did not fly for about 6 weeks. I
> went out to the airport with good intentions to rectify that problem only
> to
> find that above 60% power the engine would surge. I traced the problem to
> a
> stuck waste gate. I have since freed it up with a little mouse milk on the
> arm and the TCU servo and response to throttle seem to be good. The
> problem
> I am now having is at about 60% power the engine starts to surge and
> trying
> to go to full power just kills the engine. I "assume" it was turbo related
> and pulled the air filter to check the turbo. The blades seem to turn
> fine.
> A restart of the engine and all was good for about 2 days and then on run
> up
> the problem returned. I can't seem to shake the feeling that I still have
> an
> airflow problem but not sure how best to trouble shoot this one. Any
> suggestions? I will be going back out tomorrow night to do a full power
> run
> up with the plane tied down. I have monitored and logged the engine data
> but
> it really just shows what you would expect with a surging engine. Change
> in
> RMP change in Airbox pressure.... The engine has 180 hours on it and runs
> great when it runs. Has anyone shot the inside of the turbo with a oil to
> break up any carbon build up? I am trying to get a camera scope to have a
> peek inside from the exhaust side.
>
> Regards,
>
> Rich Schultz
> N262AE
>
>
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Fellow US Europa builders,
I have our 16.5mm reamer for doing mod 72 available. Please contact me if you
would like to use it and to tell me where to ship it. We only ask that you do
the same for the next requester. First come first serve.
Lee Vaughan
vaughanrl@pella.com
N69XS, A069
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Slight Hesitation going Full Throttle? |
Bob,
The big hesitation was no doubt my Bell intercooler as I could remove it and the
problem would go away and then install it and the problem would come right back.
So it was definitely my intercooler. I know these work when installed as
designed but if you reread my post you will see that I modified it to fit my
installation which I think changed the air flow characteristics through the intercooler
just enough to be a problem. I think they are great intercoolers and
work well when installed as per design.
--------
Darin Hawkes
Series 7
914 Turbo
Kaysville, Utah
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=248633#248633
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