Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:48 AM - Re: Mono Wanted (Hans J. Danielsen)
2. 11:56 AM - C-FOGJ (David Stanbridge (Swift TG))
3. 01:14 PM - ASN Aircraft accident 29-JUN-2009 Europa XS C-FOGJ (Mike Parkin)
4. 01:40 PM - Fuel system (Europa)
5. 02:12 PM - Re: Fuel system (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us)
6. 02:32 PM - Re: Fuel system (Tony Krzyzewski)
7. 03:37 PM - Folding Bicycles (Ross Hyndman)
8. 04:21 PM - Re: Folding Bicycles (Fred Klein)
9. 05:11 PM - Re: Fuel system (ofamerica.com YERLY)
10. 06:12 PM - Youtube clip of Jason's engine (Paul McAllister)
11. 08:03 PM - Fuel system - More Questions! (TheSchultzFamily)
Message 1
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Hi Paddy, What's your e.mail adress?
I.m offering mine for sale shortly.
Hans #334, in Norway.
----- Original Message -----
From: Paddy Clarke
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, June 23, 2009 7:27 PM
Subject: Europa-List: Mono Wanted
Hi Folks,
For those in the UK .
I have a friend who is after a well built mono, preferably an XS with
a 912S and c/s prop.
If anyone knows of one for sale, email me off list and I'll put you in
touch.
All the best, Paddy
Paddy Clarke
Europa G-KIMM
Message 2
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All,
As many of you may be aware there was an fatal accident involving C-FOGJ and
the owner, Janic Volcec.
We are now in contact with the Transportation Safety Board of Canada and are
helping where we can with their enquiries. One of the questions they have
asked is "Have either of you have any contact with the owner of FOGJ?
(Serial number A220) If so, can you recall what was discussed?"
So what I would like to ask is that if someone knows of anything that may
help in this enquiry can you please respond to me so that I can forward it
on to the TSB.
Many thanks,
David Stanbridge
Europa Aircraft
Message 3
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| Subject: | ASN Aircraft accident 29-JUN-2009 Europa XS C-FOGJ |
Details here.
http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=66041
regards,
MP
Message 4
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Can anyone tell me why rotax swapped from parallel to series arrangement for
the 914 fuel pumps . Also is it mandatory in the UK to have them in series.
Regards
Paul
G-GIDY
Message 5
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Hi Paul
" Can anyone tell me why rotax swapped from parallel to series arrangement
for the 914 fuel pumps."
To keep differential fuel pressure (pressure to carb float bowls over
airbox pressure) less than I think 5 PSI.
Parallel will blow over that number and has chance of overcoming ability
of needle valve and seat to hold it back.
Also when operating on two pumps in parallel, it is harder on each pump
compared to operating two pumps series with bypass.
Note Europa has modified Rotax recommendation by installing a second
filter, great idea IMHO.
I have details of my system here:
http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album231&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Gilles was kind enough to put up fuel pump testing on his website, link
provided in above link.
There is a diagram on Gilles website that is easier to follow than what
Europa has in their FWF manual, but it is the same. I only substituted two
Andair 375 gasculators for supplied filters.
Ron Parigoris
Message 6
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>>Can anyone tell me why rotax swapped from parallel to series
arrangement for
>> the 914 fuel pumps . Also is it mandatory in the UK to have them in
series.
Rotax always had them in series - it was Europa who put them in
parallel. During testing of the UMA differential fuel pressure gauge it
was discovered that the parallel pumps were actually over pressurising
the system so the change was made to swing them back to series.
Incidentally, the UMA fuel pressure gauge mod is very easy to fit and
does work well. For those who are interested, the output of the UMA
differential fuel pressure sensor is 0-5v so should be compatible with
most glass panels capable of accepting a 0-5v input from fuel pressure
sensors.
Tony
Message 7
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| Subject: | Folding Bicycles |
For those that are interested in folding bicycles the following two
might cost an arm and a leg but at least they are ridable bikes.
"Friday" USD 1000 and the Moulton GBP900-10,000??. The Moulton would
have to be considered the Rolls Royce/(Cadillac) of the 'folders' and
with suspension, would reduce the abuse that your tail end takes.
Ross.
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Folding Bicycles |
On Jun 30, 2009, at 3:29 PM, Ross Hyndman wrote:
> For those that are interested in folding bicycles the following two
> might cost an arm and a leg but at least they are ridable bikes.
> "Friday" USD 1000 and the Moulton GBP900-10,000??.
Friday RULES !!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8m8BBgHNcs&feature=PlayList&p=07DCB83DC40A71AF&index=7&playnext=8&playnext_from=PL
--
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Message 9
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Tony and others,
The original Rotax installation documentation for the 914 does have a
parallel setup, Ref: Rotax installation manual dated 1996 05 10.
Europa did not come up with this...
As seems usual for Rotax, they give almost no heads up to why they do
things. Refer to Contrails comments
http://contrails.free.fr/engine_pierburg_en.php<http://contrails.free.fr/
engine_pierburg_en.php>. I have a number of clients flying with the
parallel system, without failures. The original documentation shows
that a pump failure will not allow fuel to bypass in a parallel setup,
but it could. As Rotax said in 1996 "Note: There is no need for a
checkvalve for the operation of the two electric fuel pumps since the
pump itself won't allow any passage against correct direction of flow.
Attention: Employ GENUINE-BOMBARDIER-ROTAX fuel pumps only. Non
compliance will release BOMBARDIER -ROTAX from any liability." The new
installation manual drops all but the attention step) comment,
necessitating the flurry of emails and comments in Contrails. John
Hurst in high altitude flying saw the need for the differential to keep
the engine from flaming out above 15,000 (if memory serves) when running
full boost. Of course turning on the other pump clears the problem.
The manual says to keep the fuel pressure below manifold Pressure by 5
psi and fuel pressure min at airbox pressure plus 0.25 bar (3.5 psi
ish).
Glad to hear that your having no problem with the sender, as the
original UMA differentials did not work with the GRT EIS 4000, which is
quite popular in the states. I personally do not use one, but they are
handy.
In my opinion, I can't do anything about the fuel pressure differential
in flight. The operations manual gives the min and max, but you can't
do anything about it. A parallel system adds volume, not pressure in a
quick glance. Series can add pressure, but has redundancy problems if a
pump clogs. So we go with a series parallel system. My head hurts.
I'll go with Piersburg analysis that MRC did in the link above and
perhaps add check valves as prescribed, but not change my old system.
However, don't get slack as new systems should be plumbed by the book.
On a more lighthearted note:
As for flying, I monitor fuel pressure so as to monitor my filters and
delivery system. If I go above 15,000 in full turbo (haven't yet) I'll
be sure to turn on the other pump. Rotax says that the fuel pressure of
the electric fuel pump must not exceed the manifold pressure by more
than 0.35 bar (5psi) and the airbox boost can't exceed the fuel
pressure. In that case I'll do the math 34" MP less outside pressure
from my standard tables (everyone is not a geek and memorized the
tables) of 17" is 13 psi ish differential (34-17=27/2= 13.5 psi)
and my fuel pressure is 3 psi because of the lower atmospheric pressure
aiding the pump, OH, that's a big gap TURN ON THE OTHER PUMP as the
pressure in the airbox is running high and pushing the fuel out of the
carbs. (Tongue in cheek of course as the engine would have failed before
I got this far.)
Seriously,
Do it my way above and get a head ach or install the differential gauge,
do less math. The differential only gives you an idea of your fuel
pressure regulator health, and if you can't maintain the min and max,
land and investigate. Without the device, monitor your fuel pressure
and manifold pressure. If the engine acts up, select reserve (other
filter if plumbed that way) and turn on the other pump. Note MP and
fuel pressure. If it runs OK, continue and land as soon as practical,
if not land as soon as possible and investigate.
Bud Yerly
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Krzyzewski<mailto:tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
To: europa-list@matronics.com<mailto:europa-list@matronics.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 5:24 PM
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel system
<tonyk@kaon.co.nz<mailto:tonyk@kaon.co.nz>>
>>Can anyone tell me why rotax swapped from parallel to series
arrangement for
>> the 914 fuel pumps . Also is it mandatory in the UK to have them in
series.
Rotax always had them in series - it was Europa who put them in
parallel. During testing of the UMA differential fuel pressure gauge
it
was discovered that the parallel pumps were actually over pressurising
the system so the change was made to swing them back to series.
Incidentally, the UMA fuel pressure gauge mod is very easy to fit and
does work well. For those who are interested, the output of the UMA
differential fuel pressure sensor is 0-5v so should be compatible with
most glass panels capable of accepting a 0-5v input from fuel pressure
sensors.
Tony
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List<http://www.matronics.com/N
avigator?Europa-List>
http://www.matronics.com/contribution<http://www.matronics.com/contributi
on>
Message 10
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| Subject: | Youtube clip of Jason's engine |
Hi all,
I suspect that some of you have seen this already, but Jason Parker has a
new youtube clip of his most recent 914 turbo Rotax. The top of the engine
is now looking very clean and tidy with the fuel system plumbed with a
distribution manifold, and most of the wiring tucked underneath.
For those who are interested, take a look at ***
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sdV_aNPiwU
*
Regards, Paul
Message 11
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| Subject: | Fuel system - More Questions! |
Fuel problems are just what I am currently looking at as the possible cause
of my intermittent rough running engine. Has anyone taken the time to check
the calibration of there sender unit to see how accurate it is? And if so
what fuel pressure you are seeing at different manifold pressures?
I don't trust the accuracy of my gauge and am I the process of running a
calibration table to see how it responds over the range of 3 - 15 psi. I
hooked up an analog pressure gauge I picked up from AutoZone over the
weekend and it gave me a moment of pause. The base reading at idle was about
4.2PSI as I went up to about 31 inches the gauge was seen to slowly climb to
about 6 and then was jumping rapidly between 6 and about 10psi. Not sure
what if anything the gauge has for damping but it did not look like any. My
UMA gauge never shows a pressure fluctuation of more then maybe .1.
I am taking a small air regulator and making a calibration stand to check
the analog gauge against the sender unit and a calibrated pressure gauge I
have. This should allow me to know voltages and pressure readings and set up
the EIS to read correctly over our pressure range.
I want to know what people see from the 914 at say 15, 20. 25, 30 MP. Not
differential but actual pressure.
Problem remains intermittent rough running engine starting about 25MP. When
is runs rough both carb vacuum readings are in sync, Changing left or right
mags has no effect, Left or right tank has no effect, One, both or other
fuel pump has no effect. Going to manual on the prop has no effect as does
switching the disable on the TCU. Start and re try and still runs rough. Put
the plane away and come back two days latter and it works great. Let it sit
a day and it might work or it might not... Oshkosh is calling and I am
afraid I'll be hanging out in my hanger at this rate :-(
Rich Schultz
N262AE
180 Hours
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