---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 07/04/09: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:10 AM - Short wing versus glider wing root shape (Frans Veldman) 2. 04:49 AM - Re: Short wing versus glider wing root shape (Karl Heindl) 3. 04:53 AM - Re: Short wing versus glider wing root shape (Karl Heindl) 4. 06:14 AM - Re: Short wing versus glider wing root shape (Frans Veldman) 5. 08:44 AM - Re: ASN Aircraft accident 29-JUN-2009 Europa XS C-F (josok) 6. 10:04 AM - Re: Short wing versus glider wing root shape (Karl Heindl) 7. 02:11 PM - Re: Short wing versus glider wing root shape (Fred Klein) 8. 02:51 PM - Re: Short wing versus glider wing root shape (Frans Veldman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:10:59 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Europa-List: Short wing versus glider wing root shape Hi all, At the moment, I'm installing the wing root fairings. Not the normal fairings but the very nice fairings from Fred Klein. I can recommend them, they are of a nice quality and significantly enhance the look of the aircraft and most likely offer a major improvement in air flow. The problem I have is that if I bond some part of the fairings to the fuselage, this might it make it very difficult, if not impossible, to fit the glider wings in the future. I have always kept the option open to buy the glider wings in the future, and don't want to abandon this option at this stage. To avoid future problems, I need to know the shape of the wing roots of the glider wings, in comparison to the normal wings. The best option of course would be to lend some glider wings somewhere, but there is as far as I know no-one near my country with these glider wings. My hope is now that there is someone who has or had both set of wings and has made some comparison (ideally by drawing both wing root shapes on the fuselage) and can tell me more about it. I'm particularly interested in the area near the flaps. The glider wings don't have flaps, so do the glider wings fill in part of the space otherwise occupied by the flaps? The airbrakes, do they begin directly at the wing root, or is there some space left at the wing root where it is possible to construct a smooth adaptor fairing to the short wing fairing on the fuselage? If it would be possible to construct an adaptor fairing, this would be the solution to my problem, and probably also hide the flap drive tube and associated holes at the same time. -- Frans Veldman ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:49:34 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Short wing versus glider wing root shape Hi Frans=2C Others may be able to give more precise information. The glider wing root fairings are larger and completely enclose the root=2C including the flap drive tube and hole. There is a small bulge where the f lap tube fits. I have to lower the flap drive tube to almost the maximum be fore fiting the wings. The airbrakes are quite a way outboard from the fuse lage. Karl > Date: Sat=2C 4 Jul 2009 12:02:48 +0200 > From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Short wing versus glider wing root shape > l> > > Hi all=2C > > At the moment=2C I'm installing the wing root fairings. Not the normal > fairings but the very nice fairings from Fred Klein. I can recommend > them=2C they are of a nice quality and significantly enhance the look of > the aircraft and most likely offer a major improvement in air flow. > > The problem I have is that if I bond some part of the fairings to the > fuselage=2C this might it make it very difficult=2C if not impossible=2C to > fit the glider wings in the future. > I have always kept the option open to buy the glider wings in the > future=2C and don't want to abandon this option at this stage. > > To avoid future problems=2C I need to know the shape of the wing roots of > the glider wings=2C in comparison to the normal wings. > The best option of course would be to lend some glider wings somewhere=2C > but there is as far as I know no-one near my country with these glider > wings. > > My hope is now that there is someone who has or had both set of wings > and has made some comparison (ideally by drawing both wing root shapes > on the fuselage) and can tell me more about it. > > I'm particularly interested in the area near the flaps. The glider wings > don't have flaps=2C so do the glider wings fill in part of the space > otherwise occupied by the flaps? The airbrakes=2C do they begin directly > at the wing root=2C or is there some space left at the wing root where it > is possible to construct a smooth adaptor fairing to the short wing > fairing on the fuselage? If it would be possible to construct an adaptor > fairing=2C this would be the solution to my problem=2C and probably also > hide the flap drive tube and associated holes at the same time. > > -- > Frans Veldman > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:53:04 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Short wing versus glider wing root shape I should also mention that the wing skins are very close to the fuselage wh en fitted and must not be modified. There is also a slight difference in an gle of incidence. > Date: Sat=2C 4 Jul 2009 12:02:48 +0200 > From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Short wing versus glider wing root shape > l> > > Hi all=2C > > At the moment=2C I'm installing the wing root fairings. Not the normal > fairings but the very nice fairings from Fred Klein. I can recommend > them=2C they are of a nice quality and significantly enhance the look of > the aircraft and most likely offer a major improvement in air flow. > > The problem I have is that if I bond some part of the fairings to the > fuselage=2C this might it make it very difficult=2C if not impossible=2C to > fit the glider wings in the future. > I have always kept the option open to buy the glider wings in the > future=2C and don't want to abandon this option at this stage. > > To avoid future problems=2C I need to know the shape of the wing roots of > the glider wings=2C in comparison to the normal wings. > The best option of course would be to lend some glider wings somewhere=2C > but there is as far as I know no-one near my country with these glider > wings. > > My hope is now that there is someone who has or had both set of wings > and has made some comparison (ideally by drawing both wing root shapes > on the fuselage) and can tell me more about it. > > I'm particularly interested in the area near the flaps. The glider wings > don't have flaps=2C so do the glider wings fill in part of the space > otherwise occupied by the flaps? The airbrakes=2C do they begin directly > at the wing root=2C or is there some space left at the wing root where it > is possible to construct a smooth adaptor fairing to the short wing > fairing on the fuselage? If it would be possible to construct an adaptor > fairing=2C this would be the solution to my problem=2C and probably also > hide the flap drive tube and associated holes at the same time. > > -- > Frans Veldman > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:14:29 AM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Short wing versus glider wing root shape Hi Karl, > The glider wing root fairings are larger and completely enclose the > root, including the flap drive tube and hole. There is a small bulge > where the flap tube fits. I have to lower the flap drive tube to > almost the maximum before fiting the wings. The airbrakes are quite a > way outboard from the fuselage. Thanks for the info. But do I understand correctly that the glider wings actually have a larger chord line than the short wings? I thought they are larger lengthwise, but have a smaller chord line. Or is it just the fairing which is larger? If that is the case, I could modify it. Has anyone a picture for me? -- Frans Veldman ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: ASN Aircraft accident 29-JUN-2009 Europa XS C-F From: "josok" [quote:85bb90344a="kheindl"] It probaby wasn't that simple. As I heard it, the aircraft veered off to one side and there was no attempt to correct the attitude. Impact was with the engine running. [/quote:85bb90344a] >From the pictures there is not much to decide, but it is clear 2 propeller blades are intact. Seems fairly impossible if the engine was really running. Regards, Jos Okhuijsen Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:37 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Short wing versus glider wing root shape Yes=2C the chord aft of the spars is appr. 57cm=2C which is appr. same as s hort wings PLUS flaps. > Date: Sat=2C 4 Jul 2009 14:48:31 +0200 > From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Short wing versus glider wing root shape > l> > > Hi Karl=2C > > > The glider wing root fairings are larger and completely enclose the > > root=2C including the flap drive tube and hole. There is a small bulge > > where the flap tube fits. I have to lower the flap drive tube to > > almost the maximum before fiting the wings. The airbrakes are quite a > > way outboard from the fuselage. > > Thanks for the info. > But do I understand correctly that the glider wings actually have a > larger chord line than the short wings? I thought they are larger > lengthwise=2C but have a smaller chord line. Or is it just the fairing > which is larger? If that is the case=2C I could modify it. > Has anyone a picture for me? > > -- > Frans Veldman > > =========== =========== =========== =========== > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:11:21 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Short wing versus glider wing root shape FWIW, I think what would be helpful to Frans is for someone w/ the glider wings to tape a sheet of paper to the fuselage w/ a hole for the spar and registration marks at the front and rear drag pins, then insert the wing, and draw an outline of the glider wing fairing as it kisses the fuselage...and then mail it to him! ...jus ma 2 cents... Fred A194 On Jul 4, 2009, at 10:02 AM, Karl Heindl wrote: > Yes, the chord aft of the spars is appr. 57cm, which is appr. same > as short wings PLUS flaps. > > > > Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2009 14:48:31 +0200 > > From: frans@paardnatuurlijk.nl > > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Short wing versus glider wing root shape > > > > > > > > Hi Karl, > > > > > The glider wing root fairings are larger and completely enclose > the > > > root, including the flap drive tube and hole. There is a small > bulge > > > where the flap tube fits. I have to lower the flap drive tube to > > > almost the maximum before fiting the wings. The airbrakes are > quite a > > > way outboard from the fuselage. > > > > Thanks for the info. > > But do I understand correctly that the glider wings actually have a > > larger chord line than the short wings? I thought they are larger > > lengthwise, but have a smaller chord line. Or is it just the fairing > > which is larger? If that is the case, I could modify it. > > Has anyone a picture for me? > > > > -- > > Frans Veldman > >=============== > > > > > > > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:41 PM PST US From: Frans Veldman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Short wing versus glider wing root shape Fred Klein wrote: > FWIW, I think what would be helpful to Frans is for someone w/ the > glider wings to tape a sheet of paper to the fuselage w/ a hole for the > spar and registration marks at the front and rear drag pins, then insert > the wing, and draw an outline of the glider wing fairing as it kisses > the fuselage...and then mail it to him! That would indeed be ideal, but I dare not to ask for this, knowing that we are all busy with either building or our flying hobby. If someone would like to do this though, I will of course take care of the mailing costs. Don't start right away though, because I'm re-evaluating what I'm trying to do, and maybe I will follow another approach that makes this glider fairing stuff unneccesary. So, if someone is prepared to do this, send me an email, and I will let you know whether it is still needed. -- Frans Veldman ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.