---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Tue 07/14/09: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:22 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Leak (Graham Singleton) 2. 05:11 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Leak (Jim Brown) 3. 05:43 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Leak (Karl Heindl) 4. 06:12 AM - Re: Fuel Tank Leak (Paul McAllister) 5. 11:21 AM - Tank Leak Found (JEFF ROBERTS) 6. 12:10 PM - Re: Fuel Tank Leak (Jim Brown) 7. 12:10 PM - Re: Tank Leak Found (Jeff B) 8. 12:24 PM - Re: Tank Leak Found (Jim Brown) 9. 12:56 PM - Re: Tank Leak Found (Greg Fuchs) 10. 01:10 PM - Re: Tank Leak Found (K BURNS) 11. 01:46 PM - Re: Fuel Tank Leak (rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us) 12. 02:46 PM - Re: Tank Leak Found (JEFF ROBERTS) 13. 03:13 PM - Re: Fuel Tank Leak (Robert Berube) 14. 03:43 PM - Re: Tank Leak Found (Fred Klein) 15. 04:43 PM - Re: Tank Leak Found (JEFF ROBERTS) 16. 08:05 PM - Re: Tank Leak Found (Paul McAllister) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:26 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Tank Leak JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > > Okay, After some closer inspection it appears the fuel may be coming > out of the side of the tunnel area about 4 inches from the bottom of > the tank right where I bonded a nylon tab with the old re-dux during > the build to hold a cable. Is it possible that could have weakened the > tank in that spot and it's taken a few years for it to come thru. > Graham... maybe there was something in the molding of the tank like > you said that created a spot leak. > I will check it tomorrow with about 5 psi of air pressure and some > soap water on the spot, but here is a question. > If it is a spot leak and I can patch it what would be the best patch > to use? > Any thoughts would be appreciated. I don't want to gut her if I don't > have to!!!! ;o(( > Jeff R. > A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and climbing slowly. Jeff I would start by trying a weld. Use a warm soldering iron or similar. You need some scrap polyethylene for welding rod , not so easy unless you have any bits you cut from the tank? Practice on a piece of scrap first of course is a good plan. Anyone have a disc they cut out of the top for a fuel gauge? I don't know anything that would bond to polyethylene. Do you know of anything Bud? Some car maintenance people used to weld damaged car bumpers, you could ask their advice if you can find one. Not quite the same material though. Graham ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:11:06 AM PST US From: Jim Brown Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Tank Leak Jeff - I repaired a small crack in the original tank in our monowheel when it deve loped a small crack on the back side of the tank. - You need to make sure that the area is cleaned and sanded with 80 grit.Then I cleaned the spot on the tank with acetone, I used pro seal and covered t he crack (which was about 1/2 inch long) with the pro seal. Then I took a p iece of rubber sheet about two inches in diameter- and 1/8 inches thick)s lathered pro seal on the rubber and put over the crack. I then slathered th e pro seal over the whole patch. - Again make sure the tank is cleaned with acetone befor you start. - Walk away let cure couple days, then put gas in tank and check for leaks.. - Jim Brown --- On Tue, 7/14/09, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Tank Leak Okay, After some closer inspection it appears the fuel may be coming out of the side of the tunnel area about 4 inches from the bottom of the tank rig ht where I bonded a nylon tab with the old re-dux during the build to hold a cable. Is it possible that could have weakened the tank in that spot and it's taken a few years for it to come thru. Graham... maybe there was something in the molding of the tank like you sai d that created a spot leak. I will check it tomorrow with about 5 psi of air pressure and some soap wat er on the spot, but here is a question. If it is a spot leak and I can patch it what would be the best patch to use ? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I don't want to gut her if I don't have to!!!! ;o(( Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and climbing slowly. On Jul 13, 2009, at 5:52 PM, Jeff B wrote: > > Dude!- What a drag!- And I thought I had problems with instrumentatio n and Auto Pilots.- WOW!- Ok, gut her and get her fixed.- You got abo ut nine weeks... > > Jeff - Baby Blue > > JEFF ROBERTS wrote: >> We'll after seeing my fuel run onto the floor today after I added 5 gall ons I started to search for a leak. I'm now becoming painfully aware of the fact that it looks like my tank has ruptured somewhere. It's looking like around where the tank was glassed onto the cockpit module in the port rear inside portion of the tunnel. I can't remember where the seams of the tank are but there must be one back there. Has anyone else experienced this leak there? >> I remember some talk of someone making an aluminum version. Has that bee n done anywhere that one might buy a duplicate? >> Looks like some major surgery coming up. :o( >> If anyone has a tank in the states I may be interested. >> Jeff R. >> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and now going to be down for surgery .. >> size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier"> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Europa-List href="http://www.matronics.com/contributio n">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ---------------------------------- -------------------------------------- >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > > > le, List Admin. =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:57 AM PST US From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel Tank Leak Jim=2C can you tell us more about this pro seal ? Who sells it=2C i.e. webs ite info. Thank you=2C Karl From: acrojim7534@YAHOO.COM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Tank Leak Jeff I repaired a small crack in the original tank in our monowheel when it deve loped a small crack on the back side of the tank. You need to make sure that the area is cleaned and sanded with 80 grit..The n I cleaned the spot on the tank with acetone=2C I used pro seal and covere d the crack (which was about 1/2 inch long) with the pro seal. Then I took a piece of rubber sheet about two inches in diameter and 1/8 inches thick) slathered pro seal on the rubber and put over the crack. I then slathered t he pro seal over the whole patch. Again make sure the tank is cleaned with acetone befor you start. Walk away let cure couple days=2C then put gas in tank and check for leaks. .. Jim Brown --- On Tue=2C 7/14/09=2C JEFF ROBERTS wrote: From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Tank Leak Okay=2C After some closer inspection it appears the fuel may be coming out of the side of the tunnel area about 4 inches from the bottom of the tank r ight where I bonded a nylon tab with the old re-dux during the build to hol d a cable. Is it possible that could have weakened the tank in that spot an d it's taken a few years for it to come thru. Graham... maybe there was something in the molding of the tank like you sai d that created a spot leak. I will check it tomorrow with about 5 psi of air pressure and some soap wat er on the spot=2C but here is a question. If it is a spot leak and I can patch it what would be the best patch to use ? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I don't want to gut her if I don't have to!!!! =3Bo(( Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and climbing slowly. On Jul 13=2C 2009=2C at 5:52 PM=2C Jeff B wrote: > > Dude! What a drag! And I thought I had problems with instrumentation an d Auto Pilots. WOW! Ok=2C gut her and get her fixed. You got about nine weeks... > > Jeff - Baby Blue > > JEFF ROBERTS wrote: >> We'll after seeing my fuel run onto the floor today after I added 5 gall ons I started to search for a leak. I'm now becoming painfully aware of the fact that it looks like my tank has ruptured somewhere. It's looking like around where the tank was glassed onto the cockpit module in the port rear inside portion of the tunnel. I can't remember where the seams of the tank are but there must be one back there. Has anyone else experienced this leak there? >> I remember some talk of someone making an aluminum version. Has that bee n done anywhere that one might buy a duplicate? >> Looks like some major surgery coming up. :o( >> If anyone has a tank in the states I may be interested. >> Jeff R. >> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and now going to be down for surgery .. >> size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new=2Ccourier"> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Europa-List href="http://www.matronics.com/contributio n">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ---------------------------------- -------------------------------------- >> Checkeailable via the Web nbsp=3B -Matt matronics.com/ contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/contri==== =========== ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:12:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Tank Leak From: Paul McAllister Jeff, If you want to take a shot at welding Harbor Freight sell 4 hot air plastic welding tools: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber'712 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber'464 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=41592 http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=67102 Welding rod is available from http://www.arizonatools.com/detail/URE5003R6/ Paul ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 11:21:18 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Europa-List: Tank Leak Found To All that responded... THANKS! After applying pressure to the tank and using a water soap mixture I have located a 2 inch crack in the tank running diagonal from the corner of the glass lay-up in the tunnel. Its where the glass is bonded onto the tank to hold it in. It looks like a stress crack as the non giving glass may have pulled on the tank as it flexed. I'm now in agreement with Steve in that these tanks should not be glassed in but rather fitted in a way that allows some movement. Okay too late for me now... It is however in an area that I can reach it to repair it either using pro-seal or the tap plastics product. Options: 1. I used the messy pro seal to seal my sender unit in the top of the tank a few years back and it works well. I'm concerned about not being able to compress a patch around it or over it though. Maybe once it sets up thats not necessary. ??? 2. The video on the Tap plastics Polyweld Greg sent sounds like a better way to go as a permanent patch. This one though may require me to cut an additional hole behind the access hole and then repair that later. BUT... how do I make sure all the fumes are out of the tank after draining it so I don't blow myself up :o( trying to flame treat the to be repaired area on the tank. Maybe continuing to pump air into the tank and allow the fumes to eventually evaporate thru the filler cap. Any other Ideas to help me avoid burning off any facial hairs are welcome. Best regards and thanks to all!! Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and down for repairs. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:07 PM PST US From: Jim Brown Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel Tank Leak Karl - Pro seal is like a 2 part epoxy. Mix togather and apply.. It forms a rubber compound when cured. It is used in the a/c industry to-install windshiel ds,-patch fuel cells.Etc. Van's recommends-that Pro-Seal be used when -building and sealing the fuel tanks in their line of R V's. -Aircraft Spruce has it...Almost all the suppliers of aircraft parts, should have it. - Jim Brown --- On Tue, 7/14/09, Karl Heindl wrote: From: Karl Heindl Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel Tank Leak #yiv1694235164 .hmmessage P { margin:0px;padding:0px;} #yiv1694235164 { font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana;} - Jim, can you tell us more about this pro seal ? Who sells it, i.e. website info. - Thank you,-- Karl - From: acrojim7534@YAHOO.COM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Tank Leak Jeff - I repaired a small crack in the original tank in our monowheel when it deve loped a small crack on the back side of the tank. - You need to make sure that the area is cleaned and sanded with 80 grit..The n I cleaned the spot on the tank with acetone, I used pro seal and covered the crack (which was about 1/2 inch long) with the pro seal. Then I took a piece of rubber sheet about two inches in diameter- and 1/8 inches thick) slathered pro seal on the rubber and put over the crack. I then slathered t he pro seal over the whole patch. - Again make sure the tank is cleaned with acetone befor you start. - Walk away let cure couple days, then put gas in tank and check for leaks.. - Jim Brown --- On Tue, 7/14/09, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Tank Leak Okay, After some closer inspection it appears the fuel may be coming out of the side of the tunnel area about 4 inches from the bottom of the tank rig ht where I bonded a nylon tab with the old re-dux during the build to hold a cable. Is it possible that could have weakened the tank in that spot and it's taken a few years for it to come thru. Graham... maybe there was something in the molding of the tank like you sai d that created a spot leak. I will check it tomorrow with about 5 psi of air pressure and some soap wat er on the spot, but here is a question. If it is a spot leak and I can patch it what would be the best patch to use ? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I don't want to gut her if I don't have to!!!! ;o(( Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and climbing slowly. On Jul 13, 2009, at 5:52 PM, Jeff B wrote: > > Dude!- What a drag!- And I thought I had problems with instrumentatio n and Auto Pilots.- WOW!- Ok, gut her and get her fixed.- You got abo ut nine weeks... > > Jeff - Baby Blue > > JEFF ROBERTS wrote: >> We'll after seeing my fuel run onto the floor today after I added 5 gall ons I started to search for a leak. I'm now becoming painfully aware of the fact that it looks like my tank has ruptured somewhere. It's looking like around where the tank was glassed onto the cockpit module in the port rear inside portion of the tunnel. I can't remember where the seams of the tank are but there must be one back there. Has anyone else experienced this leak there? >> I remember some talk of someone making an aluminum version. Has that bee n done anywhere that one might buy a duplicate? >> Looks like some major surgery coming up. :o( >> If anyone has a tank in the states I may be interested. >> Jeff R. >> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and now going to be down for surgery .. >> size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier"> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matro nics.com/Navigator?Europa-List href="http://www.matronics.com/contributio n">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ---------------------------------- -------------------------------------- >> Checkeailable via the Web nbsp; - - - - - - - - - -Mat t matronics.com/contribution" target=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/cont ri=============== >http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List ronics.com ww.matronics.com/contribution =0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:07 PM PST US From: Jeff B Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tank Leak Found Jeff, If you can't get the Pro Seal to work, my suggestion would be to pull the tank. Once out, you might as well replace it, so the Tap process is a non issue. Don't heat the tank, especially in the A/C. When installing the new tank, you might try lining the original glass layups (if they still exist) with a thin felt. That way the tank can move, slightly. Jeff - baby Blue JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > To All that responded... THANKS! > After applying pressure to the tank and using a water soap mixture I > have located a 2 inch crack in the tank running diagonal from the corner > of the glass lay-up in the tunnel. Its where the glass is bonded onto > the tank to hold it in. It looks like a stress crack as the non giving > glass may have pulled on the tank as it flexed. I'm now in agreement > with Steve in that these tanks should not be glassed in but rather > fitted in a way that allows some movement. Okay too late for me now... > It is however in an area that I can reach it to repair it either using > pro-seal or the tap plastics product. > > Options: > 1. I used the messy pro seal to seal my sender unit in the top of the > tank a few years back and it works well. I'm concerned about not being > able to compress a patch around it or over it though. Maybe once it sets > up thats not necessary. ??? > 2. The video on the Tap plastics Polyweld Greg sent sounds like a better > way to go as a permanent patch. This one though may require me to cut an > additional hole behind the access hole and then repair that later. > BUT... how do I make sure all the fumes are out of the tank after > draining it so I don't blow myself up :o( trying to flame treat the to > be repaired area on the tank. Maybe continuing to pump air into the tank > and allow the fumes to eventually evaporate thru the filler cap. Any > other Ideas to help me avoid burning off any facial hairs are welcome. > > Best regards and thanks to all!! > > > Jeff R. > A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and down for repairs. > size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier"> > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:24:05 PM PST US From: Jim Brown Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tank Leak Found Jeff - The patch was a "feel good thing" I did. I was unsure how well the pro seal would work and I felt the need for insurance. - The tank about three or four years later developed a crack like you have. I t had also cracked at the edge of the fiberglass layup in the tunnel. I had to replace the tank and I did NOT glass- it in. Its free standing... - Once I got the tank out I had a look at the original patch.. It was still s ealed tight. I took pliers and tried to pull it off, I got it removed, but it was in torn in several pieces by the pliers. - Jim Brown --- On Tue, 7/14/09, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Europa-List: Tank Leak Found To All that responded... THANKS! After applying pressure to the tank and using a water soap mixture I have l ocated a 2 inch crack in the tank running diagonal from the corner of the g lass lay-up in the tunnel. Its where the glass is bonded onto the tank to h old it in. It looks like a stress crack as the non giving glass may have pu lled on the tank as it flexed. I'm now in agreement with Steve in that thes e tanks should not be glassed in but rather fitted in a way that allows som e movement. Okay too late for me now... It is however in an area that I can reach it to repair it either using pro-seal or the tap plastics product. Options: 1. I used the messy pro seal to seal my sender unit in the top of the tank a few years back and it works well. I'm concerned about not being able to c ompress a patch around it or over it though. Maybe once it sets up thats no t necessary. ??? 2. The video on the Tap plastics Polyweld Greg sent sounds like a better wa y to go as a permanent patch. This one though may require me to cut an addi tional hole behind the access hole and then repair that later. BUT... how d o I make sure all the fumes are out of the tank after draining it so I don' t blow myself up :o( trying to flame treat the to be repaired area on the t ank. Maybe continuing to pump air into the tank and allow the fumes to even tually evaporate thru the filler cap. Any other Ideas to help me avoid burn ing off any facial hairs are welcome. Best regards and thanks to all!! Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and down for repairs.=0A=0A=0A ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:56:22 PM PST US From: "Greg Fuchs " Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tank Leak Found I too, have good things about pro-seal being used (non-poly situations). It certainly seems the safer way to go. The other route, I would personally run air through the tank, bottom to top, for a minimum of 2 weeks, while the gas and fumes are excised out of the plastic. With the fuel issues, time involved, and cutting an access hole, maybe this method is a bit demanding. Greg _____________________________ Options: 1. I used the messy pro seal to seal my sender unit in the top of the tank a few years back and it works well. I'm concerned about not being able to compress a patch around it or over it though. Maybe once it sets up thats not necessary. ??? 2. The video on the Tap plastics Polyweld Greg sent sounds like a better way to go as a permanent patch. This one though may require me to cut an additional hole behind the access hole and then repair that later. BUT... how do I make sure all the fumes are out of the tank after draining it so I don't blow myself up :o( trying to flame treat the to be repaired area on the tank. Maybe continuing to pump air into the tank and allow the fumes to eventually evaporate thru the filler cap. Any other Ideas to help me avoid burning off any facial hairs are welcome. Best regards and thanks to all!! Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and down for repairs. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:36 PM PST US From: K BURNS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tank Leak Found Purging petrol fumes, I was told by a welder of petrol tanks that he ran a car exhaust in to the tank to purge it of petrol fumes and also air ! The alternative solution would be purge with an inert gas, IE nitrogen,this is done when working on natural gas pipelines. Make sure any pockets that could hold inflammable mix is purged,personally I would check the completeness of the purge with a gas detector .. also check adjacent areas for fuel puddles & Fumes Kevin --- On Tue, 14/7/09, Jim Brown wrote: > From: Jim Brown > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tank Leak Found > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, 14 July, 2009, 8:21 PM > Jeff > > The patch was a "feel good thing" I did. I > was unsure how well the pro seal would work and I felt the > need for insurance. > > The tank about three or four years later developed a > crack like you have. It had also cracked at the edge of the > fiberglass layup in the tunnel. I had to replace the tank > and I did NOT glass it in. Its free standing... > > Once I got the tank out I had a look at the original > patch.. It was still sealed tight. I took pliers and tried > to pull it off, I got it removed, but it was in torn in > several pieces by the pliers. > > Jim Brown > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, JEFF ROBERTS > wrote: > > > From: JEFF ROBERTS > Subject: Europa-List: Tank Leak Found > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 6:14 PM > > > To All that responded... THANKS! > After applying pressure to the tank and using a water soap > mixture I have located a 2 inch crack in the tank running > diagonal from the corner of the glass lay-up in the tunnel. > Its where the glass is bonded onto the tank to hold it in. > It looks like a stress crack as the non giving glass may > have pulled on the tank as it flexed. I'm now in > agreement with Steve in that these tanks should not be > glassed in but rather fitted in a way that allows some > movement. Okay too late for me now... It is however in an > area that I can reach it to repair it either using pro-seal > or the tap plastics product. > > Options: > 1. I used the messy pro seal to seal my sender unit in the > top of the tank a few years back and it works well. I'm > concerned about not being able to compress a patch around it > or over it though. Maybe once it sets up thats not > necessary. ??? > 2. The video on the Tap plastics Polyweld Greg > sent sounds like a better way to go as a permanent patch. > This one though may require me to cut an additional hole > behind the access hole and then repair that later. BUT... > how do I make sure all the fumes are out of the tank after > draining it so I don't blow myself up :o( trying to > flame treat the to be repaired area on the tank. Maybe > continuing to pump air into the tank and allow the fumes to > eventually evaporate thru the filler cap. Any other Ideas to > help me avoid burning off any facial hairs are welcome. > > Best regards and thanks to all!! > > > Jeff R. > A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and down for > repairs. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:46:02 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel Tank Leak From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Hi Jim How long have you been using Proseal on your tank? Do you use 100LL or Mogas? Is it OK for additives and ethenolin Mogas? Thx. Ron Paerigoris "> Pro seal is like a 2 part epoxy. Mix togather and apply.. It forms a > rubber compound when cured. It is used in the a/c industry toinstall > windshields,patch fuel cells.Etc. Van's recommendsthat ProSeal be used > whenbuilding and sealing the fuel tanks in their line of R V's. Aircraft > Spruce has it...Almost all the suppliers of aircraft parts, should have > it." ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:46:30 PM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tank Leak Found I believe I'm going to pro seal the crack and use the patch idea. Maybe before I replace the tank in the future the new Europa will come up with an alternitive plan for doing this or a new tank. Maybe they should consider a metal option. Thanks again guys. Hoe to see you all at Rough River!! Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush On Jul 14, 2009, at 2:08 PM, Jeff B wrote: > > Jeff, > > If you can't get the Pro Seal to work, my suggestion would be to pull > the tank. Once out, you might as well replace it, so the Tap process > is a non issue. Don't heat the tank, especially in the A/C. > > When installing the new tank, you might try lining the original glass > layups (if they still exist) with a thin felt. That way the tank can > move, slightly. > > Jeff - baby Blue > > JEFF ROBERTS wrote: >> To All that responded... THANKS! >> After applying pressure to the tank and using a water soap mixture I >> have located a 2 inch crack in the tank running diagonal from the >> corner of the glass lay-up in the tunnel. Its where the glass is >> bonded onto the tank to hold it in. It looks like a stress crack as >> the non giving glass may have pulled on the tank as it flexed. I'm >> now in agreement with Steve in that these tanks should not be glassed >> in but rather fitted in a way that allows some movement. Okay too >> late for me now... It is however in an area that I can reach it to >> repair it either using pro-seal or the tap plastics product. >> Options: >> 1. I used the messy pro seal to seal my sender unit in the top of the >> tank a few years back and it works well. I'm concerned about not >> being able to compress a patch around it or over it though. Maybe >> once it sets up thats not necessary. ??? >> 2. The video on the Tap plastics Polyweld Greg sent sounds like a >> better way to go as a permanent patch. This one though may require me >> to cut an additional hole behind the access hole and then repair that >> later. BUT... how do I make sure all the fumes are out of the tank >> after draining it so I don't blow myself up :o( trying to flame treat >> the to be repaired area on the tank. Maybe continuing to pump air >> into the tank and allow the fumes to eventually evaporate thru the >> filler cap. Any other Ideas to help me avoid burning off any facial >> hairs are welcome. >> Best regards and thanks to all!! >> Jeff R. >> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and down for repairs. >> size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier"> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http:// >> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// >> www.matronics.com/contribution > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:13:50 PM PST US From: "Robert Berube" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fuel Tank Leak Jeff, I agree with Graham that heat welding is the best but a fuel tank sealant such as Pro Seal does stick to the plastic material. It is best to put it on the inside but that does require access causing a potential for another leak. I would try everything before pulling the tank, not a lot of fun. Bob Flight Crafters -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF ROBERTS Sent: Monday, July 13, 2009 10:28 PM Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Tank Leak Okay, After some closer inspection it appears the fuel may be coming out of the side of the tunnel area about 4 inches from the bottom of the tank right where I bonded a nylon tab with the old re-dux during the build to hold a cable. Is it possible that could have weakened the tank in that spot and it's taken a few years for it to come thru. Graham... maybe there was something in the molding of the tank like you said that created a spot leak. I will check it tomorrow with about 5 psi of air pressure and some soap water on the spot, but here is a question. If it is a spot leak and I can patch it what would be the best patch to use? Any thoughts would be appreciated. I don't want to gut her if I don't have to!!!! ;o(( Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and climbing slowly. On Jul 13, 2009, at 5:52 PM, Jeff B wrote: > > Dude! What a drag! And I thought I had problems with instrumentation > and Auto Pilots. WOW! Ok, gut her and get her fixed. You got about > nine weeks... > > Jeff - Baby Blue > > JEFF ROBERTS wrote: >> We'll after seeing my fuel run onto the floor today after I added 5 >> gallons I started to search for a leak. I'm now becoming painfully >> aware of the fact that it looks like my tank has ruptured somewhere. >> It's looking like around where the tank was glassed onto the cockpit >> module in the port rear inside portion of the tunnel. I can't >> remember where the seams of the tank are but there must be one back >> there. Has anyone else experienced this leak there? >> I remember some talk of someone making an aluminum version. Has that >> been done anywhere that one might buy a duplicate? >> Looks like some major surgery coming up. :o( >> If anyone has a tank in the states I may be interested. >> Jeff R. >> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and now going to be down for >> surgery. >> size=2 color="#000000" face="courier new,courier"> >> href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List">http:// >> www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List >> href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http:// >> www.matronics.com/contribution >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> -- >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com 17:57:00 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:43:05 PM PST US From: Fred Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tank Leak Found On Jul 14, 2009, at 2:43 PM, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: > I believe I'm going to pro seal the crack and use the patch idea. > Maybe before I replace the tank in the future the new Europa will > come up with an alternitive plan for doing this or a new tank. Best of luck to you Jeff... This thread prompts me to review my build log photos, and I'm noticing that I extended Layup #2 all the way to the bottom corners of the tank in hopes of preventing a stress concentration where the #2 layup ends as shown in Fig. 5 of chapter 16 in the manual. I thank Ron Pagoris for that tip, and I also plan to add the foam and bond-break sheet between the bottom of the tank and fuselage in order that the tank have uniform support across its bottom At this point of course, I regret having bonded all the FG support tapes directly to the tank and not allowing the tank to "float" on the support tapes, but I'm hoping that I'll be able to dodge the bullet which has caught Jeff and others. What I truly regret is hearing that little voice which questioned the notion of rigidly bonding in the tank...promptly ignoring it...and essentially going by the book. Fred A194 -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:43:06 PM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tank Leak Found Jim, and all, I'm going to use the pro seal approach and keep an eye on it. I would like to use the patch but have no material. Question... Since it is a patch why not just use a local piece of fuel can material. I thought Id' follow your advice and and rough it up with 80 grit on both the patch and the tank plus clean them with acetone before application. Sound okay to you all? Thanks, Jeff R. A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush On Jul 14, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > Jeff > > The patch was a "feel good thing" I did. I was unsure how well the pro > seal would work and I felt the need for insurance. > > The tank about three or four years later developed a crack like you > have. It had also cracked at the edge of the fiberglass layup in the > tunnel. I had to replace the tank and I did NOT glass it in. Its free > standing... > > Once I got the tank out I had a look at the original patch.. It was > still sealed tight. I took pliers and tried to pull it off, I got it > removed, but it was in torn in several pieces by the pliers. > > Jim Brown > > --- On Tue, 7/14/09, JEFF ROBERTS wrote: >> >> From: JEFF ROBERTS >> Subject: Europa-List: Tank Leak Found >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 6:14 PM >> >> To All that responded... THANKS! >> After applying pressure to the tank and using a water soap mixture I >> have located a 2 inch crack in the tank running diagonal from the >> corner of the glass lay-up in the tunnel. Its where the glass is >> bonded onto the tank to hold it in. It looks like a stress crack as >> the non giving glass may have pulled on the tank as it flexed. I'm >> now in agreement with Steve in that these tanks should not be glassed >> in but rather fitted in a way that allows some movement. Okay too >> late for me now... It is however in an area that I can reach it to >> repair it either using pro-seal or the tap plastics product. >> >> Options: >> 1. I used the messy pro seal to seal my sender unit in the top of the >> tank a few years back and it works well. I'm concerned about not >> being able to compress a patch around it or over it though. Maybe >> once it sets up thats not necessary. ??? >> 2. The video on the Tap plastics Polyweld Greg sent sounds like a >> better way to go as a permanent patch. This one though may require me >> to cut an additional hole behind the access hole and then repair that >> later. BUT... how do I make sure all the fumes are out of the tank >> after draining it so I don't blow myself up :o( trying to flame treat >> the to be repaired area on the tank. Maybe continuing to pump air >> into the tank and allow the fumes to eventually evaporate thru the >> filler cap. Any other Ideas to help me avoid burning off any facial >> hairs are welcome. >> >> Best regards and thanks to all!! >> >> >> Jeff R. >> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and down for repairs. > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:05:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tank Leak Found From: Paul McAllister Hi Jeff, I don't know if this is a dumb idea or not, but I was wondering is it is practical to seal up the tank, put Proseal on the leak and then connect a vacuum pump to the tank to suck the sealant into the crack. Proseal is awfully messy stuff, but is it has a good track record for blocking up leaks in petrol tanks/ Paul ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Other Matronics Email List Services ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Post A New Message europa-list@matronics.com UN/SUBSCRIBE http://www.matronics.com/subscription List FAQ http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm Web Forum Interface To Lists http://forums.matronics.com Matronics List Wiki http://wiki.matronics.com Full Archive Search Engine http://www.matronics.com/search 7-Day List Browse http://www.matronics.com/browse/europa-list Browse Digests http://www.matronics.com/digest/europa-list Browse Other Lists http://www.matronics.com/browse Live Online Chat! http://www.matronics.com/chat Archive Downloading http://www.matronics.com/archives Photo Share http://www.matronics.com/photoshare Other Email Lists http://www.matronics.com/emaillists Contributions http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- These Email List Services are sponsored solely by Matronics and through the generous Contributions of its members.