Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 05:10 AM - Re: Re: Bubbling Paint (PETER HARROD)
2. 07:11 AM - Re: Tank Leak Found (JEFF ROBERTS)
3. 07:47 AM - Re: Tank Leak Found (rampil)
4. 11:36 AM - Re: Tank Leak Found (Jeff B)
5. 12:26 PM - STUPID BUILDERS (Fergus Kyle)
6. 01:05 PM - Re: Tank Leak Found (JEFF ROBERTS)
7. 01:20 PM - Re: Tank Leak Found (rparigoris)
8. 02:15 PM - Fuel Tank Leak (Erich Trombley)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Bubbling Paint |
----- Original Message -----
From: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us
To: Europa
Sent: Tuesday, July 07, 2009 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Bubbling Paint
Thanks John for insight
" For what it's worth, we see paint bubbling on glider fuselage
belly's with both urethane and gel coat finishes occasionally. This is
almost always caused by owners putting the glider in the trailer with
the trailer fuselage support cradle padding wet. This usually happens
when the owner is forced to put the glider away in a hurry due to a
sudden rain storm. The padding gets rain soaked before the glider can be
put away in the dry. If the owner doesn't take the glider out within a
few days and let the padding dry out the paint or gel coat will bubble."
Has anyone had paint bubble on wings or fuse from letting plane live
on Factory open monowheel trailer after it got stuck in rain and didn't
dry it?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
07/13/09 17:57:00
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Tank Leak Found |
Paul,
Sounds like a good Idea. John Lawton gave me the Idea to drill the ends
of the crack to stop it and maybe the vac could pull a little in the
ends of the crack... Couldn't hurt I guess. It's a very thin crack so
I'm not sure if the vac could pull the thick goo into the crack itself.
Thanks,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush
On Jul 14, 2009, at 10:01 PM, Paul McAllister wrote:
> Hi Jeff,
>
> I don't know if this is a dumb idea or not, but I was wondering is it
> is practical to seal up the tank, put Proseal on the leak and then
> connect a vacuum pump to the tank to suck the sealant into the crack.
>
> Proseal is awfully messy stuff, but is it has a good track record for
> blocking up leaks in petrol tanks/
>
> Paul
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Tank Leak Found |
Hi All!
I don't think you will get much traction by sucking down the tank to pull
proseal through a crack - it is fairly viscous stuff. I would just scuff sand
the area around the crack and lay it on thick.
Ira
--------
Ira N224XS
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=253133#253133
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Tank Leak Found |
Jeff, use a patch of some sort, even if it's just milk carton material.
Encase it in Pro Seal.
Jeff - Baby Blue
JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
>
> Jim, and all,
> I'm going to use the pro seal approach and keep an eye on it. I would
> like to use the patch but have no material. Question... Since it is a
> patch why not just use a local piece of fuel can material. I thought Id'
> follow your advice and and rough it up with 80 grit on both the patch
> and the tank plus clean them with acetone before application. Sound okay
> to you all?
> Thanks,
>
> Jeff R.
> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush
>
> On Jul 14, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>
>> Jeff
>>
>> The patch was a "feel good thing" I did. I was unsure how well the pro
>> seal would work and I felt the need for insurance.
>>
>> The tank about three or four years later developed a crack like you
>> have. It had also cracked at the edge of the fiberglass layup in the
>> tunnel. I had to replace the tank and I did NOT glass it in. Its free
>> standing...
>>
>> Once I got the tank out I had a look at the original patch.. It was
>> still sealed tight. I took pliers and tried to pull it off, I got it
>> removed, but it was in torn in several pieces by the pliers.
>>
>> Jim Brown
>>
>> --- On Tue, 7/14/09, JEFF ROBERTS <jeff@rmmm..net> wrote:
>>>
>>> From: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff@rmmm.net>
>>> Subject: Europa-List: Tank Leak Found
>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>> Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 6:14 PM
>>>
>>> To All that responded... THANKS!
>>> After applying pressure to the tank and using a water soap mixture I
>>> have located a 2 inch crack in the tank running diagonal from the
>>> corner of the glass lay-up in the tunnel. Its where the glass is
>>> bonded onto the tank to hold it in. It looks like a stress crack as
>>> the non giving glass may have pulled on the tank as it flexed. I'm
>>> now in agreement with Steve in that these tanks should not be glassed
>>> in but rather fitted in a way that allows some movement. Okay too
>>> late for me now... It is however in an area that I can reach it to
>>> repair it either using pro-seal or the tap plastics product.
>>>
>>> Options:
>>> 1. I used the messy pro seal to seal my sender unit in the top of the
>>> tank a few years back and it works well. I'm concerned about not
>>> being able to compress a patch around it or over it though. Maybe
>>> once it sets up thats not necessary. ???
>>> 2. The video on the Tap plastics Polyweld Greg sent sounds like a
>>> better way to go as a permanent patch. This one though may require me
>>> to cut an additional hole behind the access hole and then repair that
>>> later. BUT... how do I make sure all the fumes are out of the tank
>>> after draining it so I don't blow myself up :o( trying to flame treat
>>> the to be repaired area on the tank. Maybe continuing to pump air
>>> into the tank and allow the fumes to eventually evaporate thru the
>>> filler cap. Any other Ideas to help me avoid burning off any facial
>>> hairs are welcome.
>>>
>>> Best regards and thanks to all!!
>>>
>>>
>>> Jeff R.
>>> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and down for repairs.
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
Message 5
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I know I won't attract the wise ones, but I have a hint/clue for those as
stupid as I.
In the course of a creditable attempt at Molex-style connectors (I need
about 1000 because of poor planning), I inadvertently stuck a plug-type
insert in the wrong hole.
Of course, this didn't show till I was fully finished populating the
15-circuit section. These are 0.063 (1/16)" fellows. I naturally have the
prong release device for the wrong size and can't afford the time to import
the right one (Canada doesn't make anything any more).
I spied my tin can full of brass and alu tubing which I got from the
local control-model shop - and the bell rang.....
I won't say what sizes I acquired because there are tiny differences
in each maker's bits, but:
My suggestion is to get a foot of each size brass and alu tubing
that looks to fit whatever connector you're using and trial-fit each end
until you find the magic size which "clicks" the locking fins into the hole
and permits a constant pull to suddenly extract the pin/receptacle. A short
twist of the tube usually 'fairs' the locking fins - and is best practiced
on the bare pins before mounting. Use magnifiers.
Having craftily repeated this asinine manoeuvre several times since
(answer the phone, call for help, lunch bell) I am happy to rise to the
challenge of quickly undoing what took me 20 minutes to achieve. Well, maybe
content if not happy.
Cheers, Ferg
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Tank Leak Found |
Roger that... Just waiting for my ACS order of the expensive goo!!
Probably won't get here till Friday. I also had my Whelen power supply
go down to, and a few other things to change while the bird is in the
nest. So I'll keep busy while I'm waiting. Id rather be flying ;o(
Thanks,
Jeff R.
A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush
On Jul 15, 2009, at 1:32 PM, Jeff B wrote:
>
> Jeff, use a patch of some sort, even if it's just milk carton
> material. Encase it in Pro Seal.
>
> Jeff - Baby Blue
>
> JEFF ROBERTS wrote:
>> Jim, and all,
>> I'm going to use the pro seal approach and keep an eye on it. I would
>> like to use the patch but have no material. Question... Since it is a
>> patch why not just use a local piece of fuel can material. I thought
>> Id' follow your advice and and rough it up with 80 grit on both the
>> patch and the tank plus clean them with acetone before application.
>> Sound okay to you all?
>> Thanks,
>> Jeff R.
>> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush
>> On Jul 14, 2009, at 2:21 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>>> Jeff
>>> The patch was a "feel good thing" I did. I was unsure how well the
>>> pro seal would work and I felt the need for insurance.
>>> The tank about three or four years later developed a crack like you
>>> have. It had also cracked at the edge of the fiberglass layup in the
>>> tunnel. I had to replace the tank and I did NOT glass it in. Its
>>> free standing...
>>> Once I got the tank out I had a look at the original patch.. It was
>>> still sealed tight. I took pliers and tried to pull it off, I got it
>>> removed, but it was in torn in several pieces by the pliers.
>>> Jim Brown
>>>
>>> --- On Tue, 7/14/09, JEFF ROBERTS <jeff@rmmm..net> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> From: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff@rmmm.net>
>>>> Subject: Europa-List: Tank Leak Found
>>>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>>>> Date: Tuesday, July 14, 2009, 6:14 PM
>>>>
>>>> To All that responded... THANKS!
>>>> After applying pressure to the tank and using a water soap mixture
>>>> I have located a 2 inch crack in the tank running diagonal from the
>>>> corner of the glass lay-up in the tunnel. Its where the glass is
>>>> bonded onto the tank to hold it in. It looks like a stress crack as
>>>> the non giving glass may have pulled on the tank as it flexed. I'm
>>>> now in agreement with Steve in that these tanks should not be
>>>> glassed in but rather fitted in a way that allows some movement.
>>>> Okay too late for me now... It is however in an area that I can
>>>> reach it to repair it either using pro-seal or the tap plastics
>>>> product.
>>>>
>>>> Options:
>>>> 1. I used the messy pro seal to seal my sender unit in the top of
>>>> the tank a few years back and it works well. I'm concerned about
>>>> not being able to compress a patch around it or over it though.
>>>> Maybe once it sets up thats not necessary. ???
>>>> 2. The video on the Tap plastics Polyweld Greg sent sounds like a
>>>> better way to go as a permanent patch. This one though may require
>>>> me to cut an additional hole behind the access hole and then repair
>>>> that later. BUT... how do I make sure all the fumes are out of the
>>>> tank after draining it so I don't blow myself up :o( trying to
>>>> flame treat the to be repaired area on the tank. Maybe continuing
>>>> to pump air into the tank and allow the fumes to eventually
>>>> evaporate thru the filler cap. Any other Ideas to help me avoid
>>>> burning off any facial hairs are welcome.
>>>>
>>>> Best regards and thanks to all!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Jeff R.
>>>> A258 - N128LJ / Gold Rush 191 hours and down for repairs.
>>>
>>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> --
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Tank Leak Found |
Hi Jeff
Good luck on your repair.
May I suggest a few things:
**Get hold of an "old" tank and try a practice repair. Motorcycle or snowmobile
or old gas can
**I know that Lyc case repairs are done pulling a vacuum with thick windshield
polyurethane that actual gets sucked in, try it on your practice piece
**For hahas, try a practice repair with Proseal and also one with Redux
**Don't know if you could get to tunnel, but if you can reinforcing with BID like
I did, would probably layup 1 BID with Redux/peelply, then 2 BID with Aeropoxy/BID
after cure. This would be to prevent further cracking. I would drive in
some wedges to raise front of tank before glassing
**With wedges driven to lift tank in front, I would use low expansion foam and
fill between fuse and tank to help support tank instead of having a 18 gallon
cantelever on aft BID supports
**I like the idea of using a patch with Proseal that is somewhat flexible, this
way if crack moves a little, it will not point load bond. McMaster sells plenty
of rubber. I purchased some fuel pump diaphragm repair rubber with cloth reinforcement
I used for fuel sensor gasket I kinda like, perhaps get hold of a
piece and try it on your test sample
See album for some pics:
http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album233&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Ron Parigoris
from [Neville Eyre] [Permanent Link]
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Tank Cleaning before Soldering Iron
Hi All,
After ALL the fuel has been drained, purge the fumes out with Carbon Dioxide,
either
from a MIG welding plant, or from a brewery bottle. A bottle can be hired
from most drink supply depots for not a lot of money.
Leave the gas running until all smell of fuel has gone, and let a little trickle
all the while you are working on the tank.
Ensure the tip of the iron is clean.
Nev.
Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw> 03/11/03 11:52am >>>
Gidday,
I am wondering after reading Paul McAllisters website about the
recommendations for preping the fuel tank before I attack it with my
soldering iron to install the Europa fuel probe (magnetic). The question is
that I was only going to drain it of fuel and wash it out with water, but I
now fear that I need to do more than that. Does the plastic absorb some of
the fuel that would make things dangerous for me if I keep to my original
plan?
Reg
Tony Renshaw
And if you must "gut"her:
A) Curious question, if you needed to replace tank in XS, how would you do
it? Remove upholstery, cut up seatback from the kink,cut across the
front at the kink, over the top, and down the baggage bay,and across just
above the tunnel,lift top off. Spread in front and behind the top with auto
scissor jacks / lumber to open the fuselage out, do this with heat on it and over
a full day, [ softly, softly ] and the tank will come out. I have done this a
few times, only once did I have to saw the tank up as it had swollen [
After the first 50 or so tanks suplied, they don't swell now ] To repair the
joint of the cut off top, you need to cut away the outer skin, dig out the foam,
5 min' back in place, do a 2 Bid lay up onto the outer face of the INNER
skin, micro some foam onto the wet lay up, allow to cure. Sand the foam to flush
and do a two Bid lay up over the foam onto the outer skin. Usual scuffing
practises apply.
B) If a leak developed in tank, could it be repaired in place?
Kingsley summed it up about right, I have done this 3 times [ all to tanks that
had been drilled by the owners ! ] I prefer to use tank sealing ''goo '', use
the 2 hour one, the 1/2 hour sets too fast. On small holes, I have used
AN525 screws and AN970-3 washers with the goo on.
Visit - www.EuropaOwners.org
Message 8
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Jeff,
The Tap plastics Polyweld looks like a very permanent solution. Regardi
ng your inquiry about ensuring no fuel vapors are present when flame tre
ating the tank you may want to consider filling the tank with water, aft
er disconnecting the fuel lines and isolating the tank of course. During
the construction of N28ET I used water for the calibration of the sight
gage. I used 1 gallon milk jugs to fill the tank thus allowing me to t
ick off the sight gage in gallon increments. When finished I simply dra
ined the tank. Keep the tank open for a couple of days and any residual
water will evaporate. Also, you mentioned that you might have to open
up another hole to allow access for the torch. Have you considered usin
g one of those small pencil torches. You don't require significant heat
for the task and the exposure is only for a couple of seconds. Good lu
ck and keep us posted.
Erich Trombley
N28ET Classic Mono 914
OSH bound in a week.
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